The San Francisco Call. Newspaper, January 24, 1899, Page 3

f THE SAN FRANCISCO CALL. TUESDAY, JANUARY 24, 1899. 3 GRANT PUBLICLY ADMITS THAT WRIGHT GOT HIS MONEY. country, like himself, and wanted a man who ‘was able to go to/W orator—that was the kind they wished. So I sald: “Well, Colonel, it is_true Burns has' not gone through this State stumping it the way you have, ut,” 1 says, “he is the leader and he is required at home as you need a ruler, and you see what & he has madeof this : last campaign.” I “If he enters this Senatorial contest you will find that he will get closer to the administration—if he is elected he will get cleser to the ad- i ation—than any representative we that left this State, be- & the knack and the ability . therefore, we will get more through 1 any man that could be sent. D50 kind of a 3 show you what an_ Colonel Bums' is r that he has put his handg in his pockets and giv- en a check for $14,000 or $15000 for this campaigr Q. Did had ou tell him_that you know he A. No; I told him I heard so. Q. Told him you heard so? Al Yes Q. Proceed—excuse me. A. Then he started away from the store and we got in the front, or were leaning ar. He had his overcoat cane—I remember it quite well—and By the way, colonel, now,” I “I will tell you there will be trou- at paper if they don’t stop people in the manner that they 1 says “They have mentioned undred times in their paper r any time told the truth. lied about me from the time mentioned my name, and,” I m not going to let up on them. hat Is going to see it through the time comes.” That is all the conversation? That i vs, “Of course, I »thing to do with that,”” and Tked off. chairman—Did you say to him.any- about how you heard that Colonel had spent money in the campaign? ., how much did you say you himm was spent? Fourteen or fifteen thousand dol- with t abusing ave teen or fifteen thousand? Vo, sir; I never said nineteen. he colonel is mistaken about that, He is mistaken. Did you tell him how you heard that had spent fourteen or fifteen thousand rs of his money In this fight? I did not. fight did you have reference you said that? the ce npaign. ampaign? to him that you had 1d spent fourteen or fif- 1 dollars in the Senatorial , Sir. Vhat campaign did you refer to? 0 the last. Governor Gage's elec- ire State ticket campaign? ou say anything to Mr. ch he had a right to as- meant the Senatorial cam- t at all. vou talking about the . or about the Senatorial wversation started with the whether Burns intended t or not, and it of the campaign. when you told him that you t Burns had spent fourteen housand dollars of his money )aign, to what part of the cam- u have reference specifically? im he had spent fourteen or nd_for this campalgn by State Central Committee. what I spoke of. That were speaking about, the was saying what he had I was telling what Burns had 10 it to_the iot-—that Did you tell him how spent this money? u tell him that he had spent ing It to the State Central Com- Rl t when he says that you did not, staken then, is he? certainly i Now that was the s we had before it drifted into »oke to him about the paper. Gunst, do you know of Mr. < having &pent any money in the rial campaign, as distinct from the 1l campaign of the ticket? I do not. you heard of his so spending 1 Have ave not. Do you know, by direct knowledge, how Mr. Burns spent his money in aign? ow anything about it, fon that it was told to gave it to the State Central he Committee Q. Did he tell you so? No, sir. Well, who did? Well, 1 _have heard it down town. ve heard it spoken .of at the State i that he had been very one. 1 seen the state- er. fact I have got dig mmitt In the ment— thought it was_ probable, ir. he would spend ithat much m You knew he was Interested in t ampaign? thought he might spend that much ccause 1 have known he has ¥ That whether in : Gunst, any special interest . election of the legislative ticket? u first learn that Daniel be a probable candidate ates Senatorship? from Sacramento here, for the United heard it 1 arrived in Sacramento. opening of the Legislature? or just before the Legisla- ir; don’t know— I think it wa 3d of the month. id you know anything of his Sen- ipirations prior to this conver- Colonel Lurns? (The chair- meant Colonel Preston.) I did not think he had did not. ir idea at that time was that the would force him into the fight? hat was my idea, sir. That is what I told Mr. Preston. what means, if any, 1 to influence the upon the_question ed States Senatorship? no 1 know of his having used any their Interest at all? 10 not 0 you Know or indirectly? Do vou know what influence Colonel has brought to bear, if any, upon natorial sftuation, by the use of * the promise of patronage? ir. v of any influence that s bhrought to bear upon the et prior to_ the election, ce to the candidacy of any is now been before the Leg- r suffrages—by the use of or the promise of ¥y or patronage? 1 do not familiar with Mr. Burns and have known him for a number of years. . Do you know who his friends and o e? friends are? got so many I could not ne them. You would not undertake to name them then? vhat I mean is this: You can- stand me; do you know the immediate friends of Colonel Burns, to whom he intrusts the working put of his political plans? W , now you have got me. He is that generally does everything and everything to himself. Of course, 1l sit down and converse with me— cannot speak for anybody else—because Q. You do not know, therefore—or do you know—of any of his friends or agents o whom he has intrusted the working out he 1 I of any of his political plans, having ref- erence now to the securing of votes for United States Senator? T do not. The chairman—Well, gentlemen, I have exhausted myself. If you have any other questions, ask them. Mr. Burnett—When have you had a conference with Mr. Burns in regard to United States Senator? A. When did 1 have? Q. Yes; have you ever had? A. Well, 1 congratulated him on my first visit, coming up here to Sacramento, and shook hands with him. Q. When was that? A. That was just about two days before the first ballot was taken. Q. You sald you had a talk with him at that time—in regard to the election? A. 1 just met him in_the hotel’ and I said, “I have come up here to congratu- late you, and I am glad to see you in the fight and hope you will win out.” Q. Was there anything further at that time? A. “!\'o. sir. Q. Have you had any communication with Colonel Burns since that time? . In what way? Q. Well, letter, telegraph or messenger; in any way? The chairman—I to“thenmmter in Mr. Burnett—With ref Ji Btaton B erence to United A. No, sir. 3 No communication whatever? A. No, sir—oh, ves; not in regard to this. I did telephone him about g(an‘)mel Tobin being sick, but that has nothing to do with this matter. Mr. Mellick—Did you have any talk with Colonel Burns in regard to Speaker Wright changing his v Wright ging ote from Bulla to suppose with reference hamf’! o, sir. ad no conversation ape or form? o, sir. Q. Or did you have any conversation previous to ‘Wright's changing over of | vote about wuere the Speaker would be— | “hetl;\‘nr he would vote for Burns or not? . No, sir, Q. Did you have any conversation with Colonel Burns in reference to his having put m‘nne)" into the last campaign? A s Q. No conversation? A. No, sir. Q. Of any shape or form with Colonel | Burns? with him in A Q. H A. No. Q. Did you have any conversation with anybody that had received that money he had put into the campaign? A. No, sir. Q. You say you are very close to Colo- nel Burns? A. Yes, sir. When I say am a very good friend of his. Q. Do you know of his putting any mon- ey in any legislative fight separate from the general campaign? A1 have never known him to put any money into any but the general campaign | and I have known him for years. He does | not do politics_that way. | Mr. Mellick—Now, I beljeve that the fil- | ing of the statement of the State (‘ontrnl1 Committee shows that he spent $11,000? | A. Yes, sir. Q But then you say that he spent §14,000 or $15,000? A. That is what T heard. Tt shows he had given a large amount of money to the general campaign. It was just talks | around the hotels and in the street, be- | cause I know Colonel Burns has been in | the habit of giving lots of money in the | campaigns at different times—or it is so | told—it Is so stated. Q. So that wheg you were talking to | Colonel Preston about his putting In $14.- 000 or $15,000 you did not know anything about_how much | A. No, I did not. | . Burnett—Was any money placed at | very close,” I you r disposal during the last campaign to use for the furthering of the cam- paign? A. No, =ir. Mr. Mellick—DId you see any legislators in_Colonel Burns' interest? A.T did not. Q. You have not seen any of them in Colonel_Burns' interest—any of the leg- islators A. No, slr. The chairman—If that is all to be asked of this witness he will be excused. You are excused, Mr. Gunst. WHAT W. F. HERRIN KNOWS. | 'W. F. Herrin, being called to the wit- stand and sworn, testified as fol- The chairman—You may state name to the committee. A. Willlam F. Herrin. Q. What is your business. A. 1 am an attorney. . Where is your residence . San Francisco. . Do you know Colonel Burns? your POPO) . Yes, sir. Q. The Colonel Burns who is a candi- this Legislature, through the influence of Daniel M. Burns or otherwise? A. I do not. That is probably the an- swer to the question. But if you are re- ferring to the transportation that was furnished to some one at the instance of Assemblyman Merrill—is that what you want to know? Q. That is what I want to know. hA. Well, 1 can tell you all I know about that, Q. Kindly do that. A. Some time in December, I think it was—the exact date I cannot place, a gentleman called at my office and intro- duced himself as Assemblyman Merrill. 1 had no acquaintance with him, and that was the first time 1 ever saw him. He wanted transportation’ for a friend of his, and so far as I remember, he only mentioned one person who wanted to go East—some one, I think he said, who lived in Philadeiphia; that he was under obligation to this person, and that he would like to get transportation. I told him it could not be furnished; that the law prohibited the granting of free transportation to any one who was not an employe of the company. Then he wanted to know if I could not get some reduction—get a reduced rate; a half rate, 1 think, he wanted. I told him “No.* that was equally prohibited and I could not furnish it. He then went away, and afterward, I don’t remember whether it was that day or the next, some one came to me. It was not Mr. Merrill, probably some clerk in the passenger de- partment or it may have been Mr. Worth- fngton, but I don’t remember as to that, and presented a request from Colonel Burns that two tourist tickets from San Francisco to I think some point in Penn- sylvania, I think it was Rhiladelphia. And th tickets, as I understood, were furnished. Q. Was this a written Daniel Burns? A. My impression is that it was simply— it is my recollection that it was simply a request. Q. Were those tickets paid for, do you know? A. They were. Q. By whom? A. By Colonel Burns. Q. Do you know the consideration to Colonel Burns for those tickets? A. 1 do not. Q. Did_you ever have any talk with Colonel Burns about it? A. I met him afterward, and I men- tioned the fact that upon his request I had furnished these tickets, and that the price—I stated what it was—either $132 or $133 for the two, and he paid me for it. Q. At that time? . Yes, sir. Q. Did_he say at that time anything about whose money it was he was pay- ing for those tickets? A. Hé did not. We had no conversation on_that subject. Q. Do you know Assemblyman Mer- rill—since that time? A.1 saw him to-day here. Q. Did you ever have any conversation with _him about it? A. No, sir. I think I did meet him after- ward, and there was some newspaper dis- cussion about it, and I think I met him about that time, and he seemed somewhat disturbed by the newspaper reports and asked me what I thought about it. told him he seemed to have got some un- request from pleasant notoriety by trying to help some friends. It was just a casual con- versation. There was no significance to it. Q. Did he, at that conversation, say anything to you about any consideration A\ een offered Mr. Burns for his on in the matter? “olonel Burns’ name was not men- tioned. It never was mentioned be- tween u Q. Do you know anything of any sim- flar transaction in behalf of any other member of this Legislature? A. That is the only transaction of that kind that I know anything about. Q. Have any other passes or tickets, aid r by any other persons than the egislators themselves, to your knowl- edge, been furnished for any other mem- Ders of the Legisiature? A They have not. O You know that they have not? R To" my knowledge no such tickets have been given. Q. “Those things wou eve if they were g ) A O, well, they would if it came to me. OF course, T don't run the passenger epartment, but— G Well, it any member of the Leglsla- tuse, for political purposes, desired such a pass or tickét, would it not pass under Sout * observation and be submitted to ou? YU'It would very likely be submitted to me_yes, T think 1t would. . You are the attorney for the South- l':l pass under your FOR. AN ORENING _ Lons Jonn” AND BAMKS BOTH FIDDLE date before this Legislature for United States Senator? . Yes. | Q. Do you know the speaker of the As- | sembly, Howard Wright? | A. 1 do. Q. Do vou know whether Howard E. Wright ever applied to you or to any of vour clients for financial assistance in Dlia race for the Assembiy? A. 1 know that he never applied to me, and 1 have no reason to suppose that he ever applied to any of my clients. Q. Did you, or any of your clients, with | your knowledge, ever give financial as- | sistance to Howard E. Wrignt in his political race for tne Assembly? A. No. Mr. Mellick—Mr. Chairman, I don't think the charge was in connectlon with | the political race. It just said that he | had gotten $800 from Mr. Herrin, Nowl then, you modify your questions so that it don’t reach the case. The chairman—Well, T don’t mean to do that, 1 assure you. But here is the prop- osition: If he got $800 from Mr. Herrin for any other purpose than the political race, it is notI germane to the subject under examination. Mr. Me‘ljllck—Well. ‘we can bring that out ard. “’l"?urewchalrmun—Posslm%'. Since the open- ing up of the campaien for the election of this lgexlslature. have you or your clients with _your knowledge furnished to How- ard E. Wright any money? A. I have not, and my client has not in mé knowledwe. When_you speak of your client, you mean the Southern Pacific Company? A. The Southern Pacific Company. . Yes, Was an; l%llcatlnn made to you by Howard E. right for such money? A. No, sir. . No'sum whatever? . Never was discussed between us— anything of that sort. Q. Well, Mr. Herrin, have you since the election’ of this Legislature furnished a ass over the Southern Pacific Company ine to any person at the request of any member of this Legislature? A. No, sir. Q. Do you know of such a pass having been {ssued by the Southern Pacific Com- pany at the request of any member of | that any p | of | ern Paclfic Company? A. Yes, sir; 1 have no reason to think would be given—or ticket— s referred to me; anything without it w that sort. Q. That is what I want to know. You | have every reason to believe it would be ou? I have. intimate submitted to A. Yes, sir; Q. You are Burns? A. 1 know him very well. with Colonel A. Well, not frequentl T y robably meet him’ every week or so—weel or ten days. Q. Do you know anything of his having expended any money in the promotion of his candidacy for the United States Sena- torship? A. 1 do not. Q. Do you know of his having used patronage or the promise of patronage to anybody or of any character in the pro- motion of his candidacy for the United States Senatorship? A. 1 do not— Q. Directly or indirectly? A. 1 do not. The chairman—Any further questions, gentlemen? Mr. Mellick—Did you or the Southern Pacific Company give Colonel Burns any money during the campaign, for campaign purposes? A. No, sir. Q. For helping the legislative ticket? A. We did not. Q. Did you have a talk with Speaker Wright—or Mr. Wright before he was Speaker—in regm'd to the candidacy of Colonel Burns? A. I don’t remember any such conversa- tion. We may have mentioned it casually, but I don’t recollect it. There was no sig- nificance to it in my mind. Q. Did Speaker Wright call on you in regard to legislative matters at all g. I do not think he did. Q. Did he call on you for any other pur- pose and then talk about legislative mat- ters or the Senatorial question? & A. No, sir, 1 don’t remember any par- ticular discussion I ever had with him about Senatorial matters or about legis- lative matters. One conversation 1 re- member, when he was thinking of being the Speaker. He had some—told me he A was sure of being elected. It was sort of a_ congratulatory conversation. Q. Did Speaker Wright apply to you, or to any member of !your company, with- in_your knowledge, for transportation? AL At what time? Q. Since he has been elected? A. T think he did apply to me for a mile- age ticket and 1 don’t remember the date, but I think it was since he was elected. . Did h He di A. Q. A. Q. e get it? d. And did he pay for it? Yes, sir. How did he pay for it? In coin—money. How did he come to apply to you? Why did he not get it in the regular way? 'A] Well, he asked me for it. I simply sent one of my clerks down to the pas- senger depot to get it. That is very often the case that people come to me, thinking I can get it for them cheaper; and it is sometimes done in that way. Q. Did he pay the full price for it A. He did, yes. Q. Since his ncmination, did Mr. Wright apply to you for any amount of money whatever? A. No, sir. Q. Then this story that he came to you for $1200 and got $800 is absolutely false? A. Absolutely untrue. Q. Did you furnish any other transpor- tation to anybody on the request of Col- onel Burns—at the request of Colonel Burns in connection with any legislator? A. I have no recollection of any .such transaction. The chairman — That has been asked him, Mr. Mellick. You are only going over ground that has been completely cov- ered. Mr. Mellick—One other question. You say that Colonel Burns paid you for that cket; that is, for these tickets that were given to Merrill’s friends. How did he pay you? A. Paid me in money. . Q. Full value? A. Yes, sir. I remember the money that he gave me was greenbacks—a $100 bill— and I remember of giving him some change to make it even. I think he gave me $140. I gave him the change—the dif- ference. Mr. Burnett—Well, are men who want tickets in the habit of coming to you to get them? A. Some men are. It 1s a very peculiar tming that if any man happens to know me and wants anything, from shipment of freight to a ticket or anything else, from the Southern Pacific Company, he is very liable to come to see me about it, In- stead of going to the right department. Q. There has been some talk about passes. Now, do you issue passes to any one? A. Yes, sir. Q. That is, not employes of the rail- road? A. Oh, T issue to others sometimes. Yes, passes within the State. Q. Well, what is the difference between enger ticket—that is, on the face of there any difference on the face nger ticket. A. Yes, sir. Q. \\('hut is the distinguishing differ- ence? A. Well, a pass in a form of a pass. It sa; “Pass so and so from such station to such station; good until such a time,” and has the signature of some officer to it . Distinguished from a ticket? g. Ve, &ir. You all know what a ticket It does not purnort to be a pass, but “Good for one first-class passage, mething like that. . Well, now, did you, Mr. Herrin, or the Southern Pacific Railroad, to your knofwledge, contribute anything to ' the campaign fund of any political party in the past campaign? A. Mr. Crocker made some contribution of some amount. Q. Do you know how much he contrib- uted? A. T think it was $7500. That was my recollection. i Q. Do you know to whom he contrib- uted? A. T don’t remember. He contributed it to some member of the committee, I suppose; probably Mr. Kilburn. Q. What committee? A. Republican. Q. Did you contribute anything to any other committee? A. T do not remember. any other con- tribution. Q. In making contributions to commit- tees, what are you governed by? That is, if vou contributed, to one committee and not to another, how uo you draw the distinction? Why do you contribute to one committee and not fo another? A. I suppose because we are asked by some one connected with the committee. Q. Do 1 understand by that, then, that if Tepresentatives of both committees or all the committees in the State would ask vou for funds that you would advance them_to the committees? A. No, that does not follow. It does rot follow that we should contribute to any one if we don’t want to. Q. But in a case where you did not con- tribute, what I wish to ask you is: How do you draw the distinction? On what grounds did you contribute to one com- mittee and not to any other? Mr. Mellick—I don’t think that has any reference to this case. Mr. Burnett—It might have some refer- ence. The chairman—I do not see myself how it is germane to the subject, Mr. Burnett. The point at issue is improper influence used for the eleetion of United States Senator, and we might spend a week in that kind of examination and discover nothing. Mr. Burnett—Do you know of any con- ditions that accompanied that contribu- tion as to how it should be used? A. No, sir. There were no conditions. It had no reference. I will say—there were no conditions attached to it. Tt was a mere_contribution by Mr. Crocker. Q. Tt was an individual contribution? A. Yes. Q. Not by the company? Made b; Mr. George Crocker. Do you know if the company contributed anything to any ign fund? TS0 far as T know, it Qid not. The only contribution is the one I have spoken of. T have given $00 myself, of my own mone, v 1, the Southern Pacific Raflroad was very much interested in the last cam- paign. was it not? A. Well, you would_ think so to read some of the papers. I don’t think it was losing much sleep. No doubt a good many of the people that were friendly to that company were very much interested, but the company itself was not making any _ Well, did the organization of the rn?xr:?ud émployes throughout the State— 1 understood they-were organized in clubs. Did that have any reference to it? Were they organized for the purpose of elect- ing the legislative ticket? A. Well, T did not organize those clubs, but you can get at the men who did. Q. "Who were they? T don’t know who they were. You can find out. There is Mr. Sanborn, for one, and Mr. Heffron, who lives in this city. I can give you a list of the names that T have heard of, but I have never heard it suggested that it had anything to do with the Senatorial question and I don’t believe It was ever thought of in at_connection. ‘hQ} Well, it was stated, Mr. Herrin, that you stated to Mr. de Young and Mr. Spreckels _that the candidate of the Southern Pacific Railroad for United States Senator was Dan Burns. A. I never made such a statement as "'3.‘ “Their statement to that effect is not , then? "’E“fi‘ is not true that I told them that Mr. Burns was the candidate of the com- P swell, now. did you or the Southern Pacific Railroad with your knowledge ad- vance any money to newspapers through- ate? o‘i\'aéhidsfimk—wm, that question is not Ty, “efifi‘?mfigfllett—wefl. I don't know. It Jooks to me like it is a fair question. Mr. Mellick—How is it a fair question? What reference has it? ‘Mr. Burnett—It might have considerable reference, for instance in my county down there — there was somebody advanced funds to one newspaper which enabled them to put in a plant and run out a very Jarge edition, and it had a good deal of bearing on the election in that county. UMr. Mellick—Well, it would be perfectly legitimate, 1 suppose, for Mr. Herrin's ANy to give me S50 for the news: paper?. Mr. Burnett—Then the t%uesuon arises, ‘What is the consideration Mr. Mellick—But 1f I had not been an Assemblyman it would not make any dif- ference—but I never got a cent from any man or corporation in regard to that busi- ness. Now, then, it makes no difference in the case whatéver. It simply probes in to find out something that you are anxious to find out in your own eounty af- fairs. I hear you are not voting for Col- onel Burns. Mr. Burnett—The money was put in on the other side. Mr. Mellick—I do not see how that has any reference to the other side? The chairman—Let us have some regard to “any important methods used to elect a United States Senator.” Mr. Mellick—Did you have any conver- sation with any member of the Legisla- ture in regard to the United States Sena- tor. Have you had any talks with any members of the Legislature? A. Oh, T have discussed that matter With some of the members of the Legis- lature, but in a very casual way. without seeking it on my part, as if I would dis- cuss that matter with any friend that I knew. T knew some of these members ust as if I had an acqualntance with You, and might discuss it with you, if I would meet you. The chairman—Well, in that connection, did you bring to bear on any of the legis- lators with whom you talked any induce- ment to cause them to select one candi- date as against another? A. I have not. In no case has the con- Yersation been earnest, or anything more than just a discussion of the situation as it stood. Q. Did Hubbard speak of any one hav- | Ing applied to him for their support? A. Well, it would not be exactly right to state to you what communications I recelved from General Hubbard except to say—as I regard them as confidential, and also communications from a client to an attorney—I only assume that probably it ?tld come aboutin that way. I don’t know The chairman—General Hubbard, then, is a client of yours? A. Yes, sir. Well, he is the vice presi- dent of the company. I regard him as being entirely in the attitude of a client. Q. Well, it is on that ground that you would hesitate to answer? A. Yes, I think it would be improper un- der the rule with which all lawyers are familiar to state any communicaticn re- ceived by an attorney from a client. Mr. Sanford—You say that the Southern Pacific Company did not expend any money in the Senatorial campaign? A. I do say that; yes. 94 $7500, then, was given by sr. Crock- er? A. Yes, sir. Q. And the railroad took no part prior MILT GREEN (ONTINUED T0 HAVE CoLD FEET o« Q. Arguments of the chances of differ- ent candidates? A. I made no effort to influence any fimmber of this Legislature on this ques- on. Q. Well, you maintain it is your right, ,as a citizen, to present any arguments you see fit, that are proper arguments, for one,candidate as against another; do 'you 0t? A. That is very true; but I am givin; Yyou the facts about what I have dg()ne.g Mr. Mellick—If any member of the Leg- islature should apply for a pass who would be the proper officer in your com- PBJIyItO get it from? - 1 Suppose any one that would gran it to him would be the proper oflicer,gbut—t Q. You can’t put a fellow on now? A. No. No, I could not tell you any one that would grant a pass just simply for the asking. Q. No; but T want to know this: Yousay that you are not the officer that issued the passes. Well, who is? A. Well, T countersign passes. That is, I can isstie a pass in that w. ; Q. Well, now then, who is the officer that signs passes regularly? A. Well, there are several officers that | do.” T don’t know how many officers sign | passes. I think each one of the vice pres- idents can do it, and the president and secretary; and the superintendents of di- visions, I think, have the power, although I don’t know about that. Mr. H.' E. Hunt- ington dis an assistant to the pre ent; Mr. Stuhbs is one of the vice presidents, he can issue passes; Mr. Kruttschnitt, the general manager—I think he is also a vice i[:hn‘si(‘l(‘,nt. Q. If a note should come to any of these gentlemen from Colonel Burns he would probably issue transportation the same as You did for this friend, Assemblyman Merrill? A. No, T don't think he would. As I said before that probably would be re- ferred to me and no action taken on it without referring it to me. The chairman—While you are/on that let me interrupt you a moment and then {ou may go on with your examination, Mr. Mellick. Suppose Assemblyman Mel- lick would come to you and ask you for passes for a friend or two and offered to pay, would you issue them? A, Yes. Mr. Mellick—Offered to pay for it— Mr. Lardner—Did the pay from Colonel Burns come immediately when the tick- ets were Issued or was it after the Chron- icle article came. out? A. I don’t remember when it was—a few days after the transaction—I think the first time T met the colonel. Q. After the Chronicle article came out? A. 1 think it was before. . But it was not the day you issued the tickets? A. No. 1 think the tickets were issued late in the afternoon. Mr. Mellick—Do you know of any trans- portation having been issued at the re- quest of Senator Bulla? A. I know of none. Q. It Is charged in the newspapers that a great many—and here on the stand by Mr. Brown—of Mr. Bulla's friends came up here, the inference being, on passes. Do vou know of any of them coming in that way? “he chairman— Do vou know of any asses having been issued to any of the riends of Ulysses S. Grant to enable them to travel in promoting his campaign? A. 1 do not. Q. General Barnes or George A. Knight? A. 1 don’t recall any case of that kind. Q. Any case of that kind for any candi- date? A. No. I have given General Barnes’ clerk transportation two or three times to B0 to see the fioneral on business. I do not know whether he was helping him in his campaign or not. I give you that for what it is worth. I think it was simply to attend to the general's legal business, and 1 say business that he was doing for otr company. Q. The general was doing some business for your company, was he? A. Yes: he is one of our attorneys. Q. Well, was that pass in the nature of a pass to an employe? A. Yes, it was in that line. He told me that he had to see the general upon liti- gation that was pending that the company was Interested in, and, of course, I gave it to him as an employe. Mr. Mellick—Is James Copeland an at- (Dl"neiy"I of the Southern Pacific Company? A. He is not. Mr. Burnett—Mr. Herrin, do you know that the Southern Pacific promised to meet the cam;;:\elgn expenses of any can- didate for the Legislature? A. I know they did not. Mr. Lardner—That any reports in ref- erence to that are false? T can say with respect to that, that early in the campaigh, I think before these candidates for the Senate werenom- inated, I urtderstood from New York that it was the wish of the management of the company that the company should not take a part in the Senatorial fight. I suppose that came about from applica- tions to General Hubbard, }verhn S, Or Mr. Huntington, on_the part of candidates to interest them. RBeing acquainted with that wish or desire on the part of these entlemen I avolded takipg any part in ioln anything concerning legislative candidates. . Q. You received that communication from_General Hubbard, did you? A. Yes. to the Senatorial question? A. None whatever. Q. And did the Southern Pacific Rail- road Company take any part in the Sen- zv.h)rh‘i\! (I\J\:sllun after election? . No, sir. Q. Did {;flu promise Mr. de Young or Mr. Spreckels, or either of taem, that you would give them: the support of the rail- road for Senator? A. I never did. Q. Or you never endeavored to get that support for either of them? A. I have discussed that matter with Mr. de Young, and I felt friendly to Mr. de Young; but, as I say, the company determined not to envage in any of these fights for the Senatorship. Q. Then the statement that you had promised Mr. de Young the support of the railroad after the election was not true? The chairman—Mr. Sanford, I call your attention to the fact that Mr. de Young is not a candidate before the Legislature at this time, and it seems to me that we would be going out into the unxnown fields of speculation if we were tp ex- amine concerning Mr. de Young or any man that might in _the future be before ustas a candidate. He is certainly not as vet. Mr. Sanford—It might have something to do with Senatorial methods. Mr. de Young might have been a candidate for a while, and if the raflroad did not take any part in the campaign wefore the elec- tion of course it is not necessary that uiey took no part in the campaign after the election. The chairman—T think we must _confine you to the candidates who are before the egislature. 1 do not mean to shut off Mr. Sanford if he has any other ques. tions. T simnly want to confine the inves- tigauon to lines that are prover, because we will have all to do that we can, with proper examination. Mellick—Once upon a time you had an interview with Mr. Spreckels and Mr. de Young with reference to the Senator- ial situation? A. T believe T did; yes, sir. Q. Now, then, you were advocating Col- onel Burns, weren't you? A. No, sir. The reference to Colonel Burns in that interview came about in That in the interview both fen'.lemen expressed hostility or un- friendliness to Mr. de Young. Q. To Mr. de Ynun%‘.’ A. I meant to Mr. Burns, and his name was mentioned as one of the men that should be consulted concerning the Sen- atorship or any other party matter. Q. Are you through? A. T think I have answered your ques- tion. Q. Now. then, you have been advocating Colonel Burns; ‘was this at the sugges- tion of C. P. Huntington or Mr. Hub- bard? A. T did not advocate Colonel Burns. In that interview, as I say, we were discuss- ing the advisabllity of trying to agree upon some man for the Senate. I sug- gested to these gentlemen that we three people could not make a Senator—could not agree upon a Senator; that there were a great many other people to be taken into consideration. And to that Mr. de Young replied that “We,” meaning him- self and Mr. Spreckels, “represent public opinion. ~ We publish the leading Repub- lican newspapers, and we have got a right to have a controlling voice.” And I sug- gested that among the others to be con- sulted would be Colonel Burns; and his name was mentioned and I think other names. And they both said they would not consult him: did not propose to “reckon with him.” T think that was the expression Mr. de Young used, and when I saw the opposition to Mr. de Young— Q. You mean Colonel Burns? A. Yes; to Colonel Burns. I expressed a friendly feeling for the colonel; said I thought he was a very good man and he had a right to his place in RepuBlican | politics. Mr. Mellick—Well, the point that T am getting at is this: 'Did C. P. Huntington or Mr. Hubbard suggest in any_shape of form to you the advocating of Colonel Burns for United States Senator? No, sir. The chairman—Any further questions of this withess? If not, he will be excused. Mr. Herrin, you are excused. MAJOR McLAUGHLIN TESTIFIES. Major Frank McLaughlin sworn, testified as follows: The chairman—There is a rule of this committee, major, that nobody shall be called before the committee unless upon the written statement of the person call- ing him as to what he shall swear to, Now, if you waive that, we will go on. 1f you do not, we will put it in writing. A. I waive it, sir, with pleasure. Q. State your name to the committee. A. Frank McLaughlin, miner and mine owner. My residence is Oroville. . Q. What relation did you bear to the work of the Republican party in the last campaign? A. 1 was the chairman of the State Cen- tral Committee. Q. How much money, if any, did Colonel D. M. Burns furnish to the campaign fund of the State Central Committee? A.1 could not tell you the exact amount. That would have to be found out from the treasurer, Mr. Paris Kilburn. I do know that Colonel Burns has con- tributed very liberally to the cause dur- paign, as he did In 18%, and being & IS all years that I have had knowledge of politics. I should judge it would be in the neighborhood of betwaen $10,000 and $15,000. T could not of my own knowledge give a more exact figure than that. Q. These contributions are usually made with your knowledge, are they not? A. As a rule, yes. That is, a gentleman will call and express a willingn. to subscribe to the funds of the committee, and. I will refer him to Mr. Kilburn. And, In some cases, the money has been handed to me direct and by me handed to Mr. Kilburn. Q. In the contribution or contributions that Colonel Burns has made to the cam- paign fund of the Republican party in the last campaign were any instruetions given or any preferences shown, that that fund should be used toward the election of the Legislative ticket? A. No, sir. It was to be used, as was tho policy of the State Republican Central C: mmittee, for the benefit of the entire ticket from the head of the ticket down. Of course, we worked to secure a Repub- lican Legislature, but we were not con- trolled in any way by any man’s Sena- torial aspirations. Q‘._,You know Colonel Burns well, do you not? A. Intimately and well, sir. Q. He has had a large influence agAd voice in the matter of directing the cours of the State Central- Committee in the campaign, has he not? A. Well, having the most implicit re- liance in the Colonel's stalwart Republi- canism and his astute knowledge of poli- tics and men, I have at all times con- v and have been largely ce and counsel. , Major McLaughlin, of any special fund or any fund having been used by the State Central Committee for the purpose of promoting the election of the Legislative ticket distinct from the gencral ticket? No, sir. Q. Do you know of Colonel Burns him- self, or any agent of his, having used any money in the election of the Legislative ticket as distinct from the general ticket? A. I do not. Q. Do you know of Colonel Burns hav- ing used any money or any agent of his having used any money since the election for the promotion of the Colonel's candi- dacy for the United States Senate? A. Ido not. And having a very intimate knowledge of the Colonel's proceedings, I am prepared to say that he has not, nor has any agent used money for him in that way. Q. Do you know of any instance where- in Colonél Burns, or any agent of his, has used patronage, or the promise of patron- age, to promote his candidacy? do not. Q. Can you point this committee to any means whereby they may learn of any use of money or patronage, or promise of money or patronage, for the promotion of his candidacy? A. No, sir. Q. You are familiar with his methods, are you not? A. Quite so. Q. You are familiar with the men to whom he intrusts the working out of his political plans? . Yes, sir; he trusts the working out of his political plars largely .to the good sense of the entire Republican party. 5 Mr. Lardner—Is the State Republican Central Committee taking part in Mr. Burns' candidacy , sir. Not as a committee. Probably as individuals they are. Q. It is eharged that they have moved their headquarters here and have taken an active part in this campaign. A. It was charged, I believe, by The Call, although I clearly explained the sit- uation, as it was a matter of interest to me. We are simply following out a pro- gramme that we started in i896. By ref- erence The Call and Chronicle of that date, +wo years ago, you will see that they then commended and upheld the maintenance of our headquarters here during the Legislature. The Republican headquarters have in no waybeen used by Colonel Burns or any other Senatorial aspirant for office, and they have been maintained and carried on exactly as they were in 1896. Q. There was no Senator elected that vear, was there? A. Yes, there was. At the time the headquarters were maintained, just as they are to-day. As I understand, then, no Senatorial candidate has the single support or the undivided support of the party organiza- ion. A. As a party organization? Q. The party organization is not lend- ing itself to the support of any one can- didate? A. We are doing to-day just exactly as we did during the last campaign. We de- termined then to do all that we could to elect a Republican Legislature of un- pledged members, with the knowledge that such a Legislature would elect a proper representative as Senator. As to the truth of that story, I refer you to every member of Seaate and Assembly in the Legislature here to-day or_elsewhere. There i8 no member of the Legislature that had been approached by me in any form or shape to the time that Colonel Burns announced himself as a candidate. Since that time, individual 1 have spok- ADVERTISEMENTS. : o e In the evening twilight of winter time, when the fire sparkles and glows and dances upon the hearth, there are dreams and air castles of the future in the flames for the young woman who sits and gazes into them. Whether these air castles will ever become realities, is largely a matter of health. 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