The New York Herald Newspaper, October 6, 1875, Page 6

0S LEGAL TENDERS. acre eeeteoecsereetenh ‘Reply of Wendell Phillips to the Speech of Carl Sehurz. eacrienotarseataniati FOUR SUBSTANTIAL MATTERS ANSWERED. The Necessity for More Green- backs and Less Checks. sir CK ABISTOCRACY OF MONEY MANUFACTURE. dArredeemable Paper in the Light of European Financial History, ‘CAUSTIC LETTER FROM GENERAL BUTLER, The following letter has been addressed to the ‘United States Legal Tender Club of this city by Wen- ell Phillips :-— | Evozwe Bens, Esq., Secretary of the United States Legal Tender Club, New York:— { My Dear Sm—In compliance with the request of the \Monorable Richard Schell and other prominent mem- {borg of the Legal Temder Club, of which you are the Secretary, I have to submit the following to the gentle- ep of your club and the country at large. MR. SOHURZ’S SPEECH CONSIDERED. Draining off from Mr. Schurz’s speech the whipt- islyllabub-exeuse, apology, personal abuse and his own history, four substantial matters remain. The charge that Governor Allen and his if do not know that ninety-three per cent of busi- ‘mess transactions are by checks, notes and bills of ex- change, while-only seven per cent of such transactions ‘are offected by bank currency and greenbacks. If Em- peror Carl coakt have afforded te come home a little ‘earlier from his European testivities and infermed him- yself of the actual state of the discussion he flings him- self into the middle of, he would know not only that Governor Allen and his friends were aware of this fact, ‘Dut that they were tne first to bring it out and publish y#t in this-disoussion, He would know also that this fis the corner stone of one of their gravest charges sagainst our present system of finance. This it is that leaves in the hands of the Bank Directors the power to ‘inflate at their sovereign will and pleasure. In one city, | (New York, the banks inflated the currency $1,700,000 ff'One week of last Fobruary and contracted it $5,000,000 in one week of last March. Can government ‘take In or force out currency much faster than that? ‘This is the aristocracy of money manufacture, resting in some 5,000 bank directors, that we resist. Our sys- aem—greenbacks and interconvertible bonds—leaves this power of inflation and contraction in the hands of ‘the whole massof business men; this is where it should restand where it always does rest until Jaw and force in- terfere with business by creating monopolies like the national banka Would Ohio submit if only a few cap- ‘Itahste, residing in Cincinnati and Columbus, allowed to plant wheat and overy one else forbidden? ‘Yet this is our present system of money manufacture, ‘Banks raise or lessen the price of every farm as they ‘Please, They manufacture and destroy currency as guits their own interesta Indeed, our present system of finance is a one-sided device—not to say trick—by ‘which capital gets constant and uniform advantage over ‘Dusiness and labor. Second—The second potnt of the speech is, if the government increases the number of greenbacks they ‘will aepreciate and gold will advance. Mr. Schurz for- gets that our system does not contemplate any neces- ‘sary increase of the whole currency made up of bank ‘ills, greenbacks, deposits, checks and bills of exchange. ‘We mean to have more greenbacks and less checks; more democracy and less aristocracy in the money market; more money in everybody's reach and less of ‘bank favors for the petted few. But suppose we do double the real currency, as Mr. Schurz fears, will that Jearn the lesson. earth—“‘to submit to anything” for the privilege only to-enjoy the primeval curse, How long, 0 Lord, how long shall such things be! The end must sooner or later | surely come, and in this—that the workingmen and wo- Did Mr. Senator Schurz never hear of a country called _ men will be obliged to call for their wages invested in France, which survived the German war by means of savings banks, and the amount is greater than the capi- well regulated irredeemable paper money, bas in- | tal of the national banks, although it enjoys none of the creased her exports since from $60,000,000 to , fifteen per cent dividends of the latter institutions; $500,000,000, is prosperous, every one employed, her paper, though enormous im amount, at par with gold, and that she is able to return to the old specie system whenever she pleases? While at the same time specie- basis Germany, baving just received $1,000,000,000 in cotn from this same France, is herself in deep water, tens of thousands of unemployed men in her streets, no money to be had to start her mills, taxes in- creased, and ono of her Berlin writers complain. ing:—‘We are in as great distress as if we had to pay thousands of millions instead of having had as much to receive; When Mr. Schurz has studied up these two instances of frugal and careful governments which have issued “large quantities of irredeemable paper money” without tumbling into a vortex of profligacy and corruption we will furnish him with others. Mean- while, we commend him to the reading at safe inter- vals of some sound doctrines in Caroy’s letter to Fieid, Fourth.—The fourth point of the speech is:—‘Noth- Ing but specie basis can give stability to current prices or restore that confidence which is the first requisite of @ new field of prosperity.” Yes, “‘contidence” is, indeed, the first great need. No dispute about that. Does it necessarily and always accompany a speele basis? Then will Mr. Schurz please explain the present panic and distress in Ger- many—almost as bitter as ours? Yet Germany re- Joices in specie basis, So does London, that makes bankrupts of half New York. Will Mr, Schurz please explain? California is all gold, but she has just been shaken to her centre. England was on a specie basis in 1826, when the panic and disorder were so great that Huskisson said, “We are within twenty-four hours of barter,” so utterly gone was confidence in currency and each other. Really Mr. Schurz ought to blush for such statements, even in @ stump speech. Doubtless he knows that Ricardo, the great bullionist, allows that security on any system; that the panics in England in 1847, 1857 and 1866 were all experienced while specie basis prevailed; that again and again in specie basis English history, the permission given by the govern- ment to the banks to suspend specie payment has beon the salvation of the business community. The men of Ohio must be green, indeed, if such perversions of his- tory avail to mislead them, especially when they re- a specie system and we got out of them by suspending specie payment. A specie basis will “give stability to current values!’? ‘What does Mr. Schurz mean? Does he not know that during our late rebellton gold rose in price more than any article of merchandise except cotton? Talk of such an article giving stability to prices! It is Sinbad anchoring ona whale. It is like the other green na- tive of that land of science and philosophy, Germany, who, drawing a landscape, took cow for the fixed point of his perspective. She moved, and the picture became just such a muddle as these specie basis speeches are. God save the Germans from their spe- cio basis friends! The ablest of European writers, themselves bullion- ists, allow that the time when it was either necessary or prudent to tie ourselves to specie has passed away. Even Ricardo, the bigh priest of the bullionists, the father of the present British system, allows this. He says:— A ‘regulated paper currency is so great an improve- ment in commerce tbat I should greatly regret 1f preju- dice should induce us to retarn toa system of less uttlity, The introduction of the precious metals for the parposes of money may with truth be considered as one of the most important steps toward the improve- ment of commerce and the arts of civilized life. But it is no less true, that, with the advancement of knowl- edge and science, we discover that it would be another improvement to banish them again from tho employ- ment to which, during the less Co ocaaa period, they had been so advantageously appli We need larger facilities, We need a real basis—that is, tho country, the sovereign people, the wealth of our country—not a sham like this pretence of specie. Says Bagehot, the highest authority in England:— So far from our being able to rely on the proportional itude of our cash in hand, the amount of that cash is 80 exceedingly smail that a bystander almost trembles when he compares its minuteness with the immensity of tho credit that resis upon it—Lom- bard Street, page 18, Well may that bystander tremble, as the cash is fifty of itself, and necessarity, increase prices, and especially the price of gold? Listen to tacts in our own history, related by the ablest of itving economists, H. C. Carey’ 4n his letters to Secretary Bristow in 1874, pp. 6, 6, 7 and 8:— VACTS BY H. C. CAREY. The currency, however, was then (during the war), ‘as we are now constantly assured, greatly depreci having comman: heavy premiums, as certainly been the case. How little, nevertheless, had been ‘the connection between the supply of circulating notes and those premiums it is proposed now w show, as follows. At the close of 1862 the government circulation ‘amounted to little less than $200,000,000. As yet the State bank circulation remained undisturbed, and to ob- tam the actual quantity of Pao a notes it is Reeded now to add to the above the sum of $150,000,000, ‘a total of $480,000,000, We have here a pro- Gigots ‘and most’ rapid increase, and yet ‘the premium had scareely passed rond 33. ‘wo months later, in February, 1863, it stood at with scarcely auy perceptible increase in the cir- medium. In July the greenbacks had largely in- creased, their amount having reached $400,000,000, the Premium meanwhile falling to 24 At the close of that year the legal tenders in circulation bad reached $50,000,000, exhibiting an increase of $200,000,000, itended with a decline of premium to the extent of 20 per cent; the February premium of 71 having been re- laced by the December one of 51. The following year, exhibits in Jume an emission of compound interest tender notes attended with a rise in the price of gold from 190 in May to 257 in August, and s decline to 215 in December. Five months later, in May, the premium had fallen to 28, and this without even the slightest re- duction in the quanuty of ciroulating notes in use. the following October, although the qnantity of notes on band, and therefore out of circulation, had become, as then stated by the Comptroller of the Currency, vory large, the premium had risen to forty-six In ‘view of all these facts there is, as | concerve, no possi- Dility of exhibiting any necessary connection between the price of gold and the circulating note As difficul: would it be to exhibit any such connec tion with the prices of commodities of home pro- duction, all changes in these latter having resulted from circumstances wholly apart from the suppl: of hotes. Cotton and woollen coods were 14f for the reason that a cotton and wool famine had Deen brought about. Labor was high because of the rapid extension of tmanulactures consequent ‘upon the adoption of a protective policy, and upon the demands of the government for service in the field. Meat of kind was higher because of the vast de- mand caused ty millions of men in arms. Horses were higher because of army and so wasit with | hundreds of other commodities that could ve named, Real estate, however, remained unaflected—jand in Pennsylvania and houses in Philadelphia baving been purchased as cheaply as could have been the case be- tore the idea had first beon started. From that day (1865) to the present there haa been ‘fan incessant war upon the money of the many, tho circulating note, leaving wholly out of view the action of money known by the name of ‘deposits,’ by means of which the (ew are enabled to profit at the expense of ‘the many who need to live by exercise of thei and mental powers. Fierce as has been the war, so slight has been its effect that at the date of the crisis in | September of last year the circulating notes in use, with old at 15, were greater in amount than they had been in 864 with gold at 260, the total having been $759,000,000. Making (rom this, deductions s»milar to those made by the Comptroller in 1865, the net amount may be taken at $60,000,000, or about $13 per bead, being but $1 51 in oxcess of that of 1962, when paralysis reigned throughout the land; when almost all business ‘was transacted on long credits; and when that vast ‘West, which has since been ocoupled, remained almost “fare” terra incognita as is now the heart of | John Stuart Mill in his ‘‘Political Economy” says:— “1 apprehend that bank notes, bills or oh as uch, do not act on prices atall What does on is credit, in whatever shape given, and whether fit gives rise to any transferable instruments capable of passing into circulation or not.” —(P. 317.) Bonamy Price says of this last extract from p, 317:— “This is a fundamental truth, of immense import ance in currency; it kills off at’ once a multitude of empty theories about inflations of bauk notes, which ps circulation and swell prices, und engender crises and smite the commercial world with desola- aion,”—(Principles of Currency, p. 168.) . Bonamy Price is Professor of Political Economy at xfgrd, and the empty theories he speaks of make up the bulk of Mr, Scburz’s speech. ‘The third pointof Mr. Schurz is:— | ‘There never was a State ever so well administered, | here never was ® poople ever so frugal, there novor | wae ament ever s0 careful, witch didnot by | the emission of large quantities of irredeemable paper vortex of profligacy and corruption. Inna Sever been, i will never be otherwise Did Mr, Schurz never bear of a country called Great ‘Brita, which used irredeemable paper money from 97 till 1821? And all that time she was neither so tweak, poor, profligate nor corrupt but that Bowen, Bull- n Professor in Harvard College, allows that without paper money England could not have con- Napoleon; that paver notes fouwhs the battla of cents coin to $100 paper, To imitate that system is Mr, Scharz’s finance! Andeven that minute quantity in coin is a sham. Cary tells us that thirty-seven years ago Albert Gallatin, then President of the Bank ot North America, in the city of New York, eaid at a meeting of bank presidents :— ‘We well know that while a bank note bears on its face @ promise to pay the amount of its denomination in com ft carries with it the implied condition that the cotn shall never be asked for. If this be all the wisdom foreign travel has furnished our Senator, better will it be to get some one else to answer the compact logic of Ewing’s speech at Ironton. Scburs parades his bugbears to alarm the plain sense of- Our overburdened and impoverished people, No boy theorist can be expected to comprehend the vast interests of those 40,000,000 of people, set by God to subdue the Continent, dot it with cities and bind the oceans in marriage by iron roads. The Continent is yous giant in swaddling clothes. The grand work and destinies of our people refuse to be cabined in the six- penny methods of small, fully developed States and their financial usages of 200 years ago. To-day our distress is too bitter for idle speculations. The labor of the land sweats under adebt of some twelve or fourteen thousand million of dollars (national, State, city, railway and mortgage debts), drawing at least seven per cent interest on the average. TMH GREED OF CAPITAL forces the government into one pathway; starving labor clamors to have it move otherwise; confidence | gone, wktespread bankruptcy crippling business, stocks depreciating, roal estate unsalable, In this dread winter before us how will the savings banks stand the demands upon them? Instead of this bairsplitting of old theories, practical statesmanship uses the wisdom of experience, learns from our own war policy, profits by the glorious ex- ample France sets us, and by using all modern expe dients, as she did, turns disaster into opportunity, set- ting hand, spindle, steam engine and sail all at work, pouring content and plenty through all our channels, It disdains, as France did, to yield to unmanly fear and shriek “Wolf, wolf!” from the watch tower; but, with the cries of “Victory!” and ‘‘Forward!”’ from the head of the ranks, pours confidence into every heart and makes the sucvess we prophesy. It is a poor government, and they are but sorry lead- ers who stand up to whino before the peoplo while even at our doors and at this very time and year other lands show us the safe path ont of all trouble and how to plant ourselves on solid ground. Talleyrand said, “Everybody is wiser than anybody,” and the plain common sense of the people will yet savo us from this “much learning’ which makes our statesman “mad.” With thanks for the honorary membership of the Legal Tender Club so kindly voted me, I remain, dear Mr. Beebe, yours, WENDELL PHILLIPS. GRANTVILLE, Mass. LETTER OF GENERAL BUTLER. Bostox, Sept, 90, 1875, Evouse Berens, £sq., Secretary United States Legal Tender Club, New York:— My Dan Stn—I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of yours Of the 28th, telling me what I believed must be the case, that real property in the city of Now York was passing into the hands of mortguyees and leaving @ deficit even then. This is a result of the en- deavor to contract the values of every kind of property except invested debt, through legislation voted for in Cony by more than sixty (60) bank directors voting in their interests, under @ ruling of parliamentary law made by another bank director, It is impossible that the people of this country will permit this state of business ruin Jong to continue, read in the Associated Press despatches yesterday the saddest sentence that has ever come to my eye Speaking of the Fall River troubles # manufacturer said :— The courage ts all taken out of the operatives; they will submit to anything for work. You have been writing me and I have been replying upon the subject of the reduction of values of prop- erty by this system of contraction; but what shall we say of the reduction of men into slaves by this system of contraction? Men—fres, white and, twenty-one— crushed down in spirit until they ‘will eubmit to any- thing” simply to get work. An opportunity to “earn their bread by the sweat of the face" notaricht to against such panics as prevail here now we have no | member that all our former panics havo arisen under | and when that call comes the money lender at usury must stand from under, and may find himself as much | broken in spirit as the workingman 1s now, and ready | to submit to anything to get work. Iam yours truly, BENJ. F, BUTLER WALL STREET NOTES. THE TENDENCY OF FINANCIAL AFFAIRS—THE DECLINE IN MISSOURI PACIFIC AND NEW JER- SEY CENTRAL—ALL THE STOCKS ARE IN WALL STREET. There was an absence of financial ozone in the atmos- phere yesterday. Stocks which had hitherto been con- sidered stanch and impregnable yielded with scarcely an effort on the part of the bears. The PRT OF THR SYNDICATE led the list in the tumble, Missouri Pacific, which closed last evening at 20—after a drop from 36—fell yes- | terday to 2424, and seemed to involve in a sort of panic everything to which the name of Pacific was attached. Union Pacific from 65 dropped off to 6244. Lake Shore and Pacific Mail seemed to have the delir- jum tremens, and altogether there were spmptoms of a general decline. The name of a German banking firm was freely mentioned as having been obliged to sell their Missour: Pacific stock; but ag the house had been indicated in this column several days since as the engineers of the decline the fresh reports were not considered as news by the street, The attack on New Jersey Central was not so clearly traceable. This has always been a prompt dividend-paying security, and when on small offerings it declined to 1024¢ many in- vestors were seriously alarmed. lt appears that the Toad is well managed, and has a fine road bed and su- perb equipment; but when it is considered that it has an indebtedness of about $200,000 per mile—about three times what it would cost to build an ordinary road—it is not surprising that holders should throw it over- board on the first signs of demoralization on the Ex- change. ‘The following note from Chicago, dated September 24, may be of interest in this connection:—‘The Balti- more and Ohio and New Jersey Central have been build- ing a branch road which will make the distance from New York to Philadelphia about eignt miles shorter. ‘This road rans through Flemington and crosses the Delaware River at Lambertsville.”? ‘This would seem to be a desirable shortening of the route, and itis dificult to see why the stock should depreciate on this informa- tion. There seems to be agreat deal of ignorance in Wall street as to the causes of the late decline in stocks, ‘The reason simply is that of the hundreds of millions of dollars represented by shares, a large proportion of which are usually M€ld out of this city, three-fourths have been returned to this money centre. THE STOCKS ARK IN WALL STREET, and as we are poor and confidence is gono the market must be made cede aca thus stocks vainly seck a per- manent location; they are thrown about ina sort of shuttlecock and battledore way and only ‘repose over night in some banker's office, held on a margin. ‘THE GOLD MARKET yesterday was very strong, and the fluctuations will be found iu the proper column. We learn on very reliable authority that the late gold bulls have sold out their | holdings and are prepared for a raid on the market. It is asserted also that the bank mentioned on Wall street | as being in their interest has refused any longer to lock up gold, and this may in a measure account tor the decline in the premium yesterday after the highest price—117%;—had been reached, The gold sale of one | inillion takes place W-morrow. Pacific Mail affairs ro- main in statu q THE BOARD OF | APPORTIONMENT. TRANSFER OF MONEYS—MORE ASSESSMENT BONDS AND MUSEUM STOCK ISSUED. ‘A meeting of the Board of Estimate and Apportion- ment was held yesterday afternoon in the Mayor's office, Comptroller Green, Mayor Wickham, Alderman Lewis and Tax Commissioner Wheeler were present. The provisional estimates for 1876 must be adopted by the lst of November and the final estimates by the Ist of January. All estimates from the different city departments have been sent in, but discussion upon the different items has not yet taken place. It was pre- sumed that some of these estimates would be taken up at yesterday’s meeting, but the Board is not yet ready to commence such examination. A communication was received from the Corporation Counsel requesting a transfer of $5,000 from contin- gent funds to appropriation for salaries of clerks and messengers in his office, The request was acceded to, ‘An application from the Department of Parks asking for a transfer of $1,708 73 for completion of the Battery walls was granted. The same department also sent in a communication, enclosing copies of bills amounting to some 15,000, and requesting a transfer or appropriation to meet the claims. Comptroller Green remarked that he had already called attention to this subject some time since. The bills were contracted during the official career of Mr. Wales in the Park Department, and that gentleman was responsible for them. They were contracted in oxcess of the appropriation. Mayor Wickham suggested that the matter be re- ferred to the Department of Parks, with a request thas they should seek information on the subject from Mr. Wales. This suggestion was finally adopted. Alderman Lewis offered a resolution transferring $7,786 53 from appropriation of Common Council for 1874 to tund for support of prisoners in County Jail This matter was laid over for tuture consideration. Comptroller Green called up the resolution authoriz- ing an issue of Art Museum stock to the amount of $50,000, which was passed. The Comptroller also called up resolution as to pro- viding moneys tor payment of judgments. Ho desired the amount specified to be increased from $27,000 to 36,000. The suggestion was adopted. the ‘subject of tssuing bonds to meet assessment bonds falling due to the amount of $500,000 for the opening of Eleventh avenue was noxt calied up. The Comptroller explained the nature of those bonds, and that they did not morease the debt of the city, but | were liquidated by assessment upon the property bene fited. He alluded sarcastically to the manner in which public works were conducted, and suid that he would shortly have occasion to explain certain mnu- endoes that had been cast upon him in this connection. The gentleman probably alluded w the recout severe stricture passed upou his policy tg General Fitz John Porter, Commissioner of Public W8rks, Tho Vomptroller next offered a resolution providing | for the issue of assessment bonds to the amount of | $8,000.00 to mect similar bonas shortly failing due. In answer to Mayor Wickham Mr. Green said this was some more of the “bridging over” process. The reso- lution was passed. ‘Alderman Lewis offered a resolution requesting the Commissioners of Accounts to examine all the depart- ments and ascertain the various amounts paid for clerk hire and other expenses. i Comptrolier Green opposed this motion and said he would not give a ‘“tinker’s copper” for such examina- tion, It would prove utterly worthless, The resolution was finally passed, After the transaction of some further routine busi- ness the Board adjourned, LESSONS FOR BURGLARS. Jacob Bronck, aged twenty-five years, fell from the balcony of No, 34 Seventh avenue at an early hour yes- terday morning and fractured his skull, The police au- thorities of tho Ninth precinct suppose that at the time of the accident the man was endeavoring to commit a burglary on the premises, He was removed to Bellevue Hospital. At one o'clock yesterday morning Police Officer Truss saw @ man jump out of the second story front window of No. avenue A. He ran for some fifty feet, when he fell exhausted, his leg being broken The officer took him to the Fifth street police station, where he gave his name as Charles Smith, residing at No, 31 ave- nue A. Shortly afterward Mr. Charles Fahrenhopf, the propriotor of the saloon where Stith had made his dash for liberty, deposed at the station house that Smith had broken into nis dwelling house by a rear window, and when detected had sprang out of the win- dow, The prisoner was removed to Bellevue Hospital BURGLARS CAUGHT IN THE ACT. Yesterday morning, about two o'clock, Officer Ward saw two men descend into the basement of a saloon at No. 192 Pavonia avenue, Jersey City, Ho watched | thoir movements and saw that they lighted a match. He then rapped for assistance and the follows hurried out of the building and sneaked across the street into an oyster saloon. Two officers followed and found them hiding in the kitchen. When taken to the Second precinct station they gave their names as John Har; | aged twenty-two, @ native of Brooklyn, and William | Burke, aged twenty-one, a native of Schenectady. They had succeeded in forcing an entrance through the window and were about wo commence thieving, when they were taken by surprise, They were committed for trial. FELL FROM A TRAIN, A sad accident occurred about eight o'clock yesterday morning near Mott Haven Junction, on the line of the Harlem Railroad. Warren Bliss, aged thirty-tive years, residing in Chappaqua, was on the southward bound train, when by some accident he fell and received inju- ries about the bead which it is feared will prove fatal. The injured man was taken on board the train and con- veyed to the Grand Central depot, where Dr. McDonnel rendered surgical aid, after which he was removed to Bt. Luke’s Hospital MOODY AND. SANKEY. A New Element of Christ'an Activity in Revival Work. AN ORTHODOX AND HETERODOX WARFARE, Rev. Mr. Sunderland’s Views of the Revival Movement. The Position of Liberal Christians. Norrarrtp, Mass., Oot, 5, 1875, The commotion in the Connecticut Valley consequent upon the Moody and anti Moody movements, or rather the conflict between orthodoxy and Unitarianism or liberal Christianity, begins to assume colossal propor- tions, The few discussions and rival sermons which have already been had have proved an entering wedgo which threatens to divide society, and the indications are that, if Mr, Moody lingers here much longer, the evangelization movement which he has inaugurated will be involved with such surroundings as to attract the attention of religious philosophers throughout the country, In fact it has, even now, become not merely ‘an evangefical or missionary work; but the movement, as it progresses, seems to partake somewhat of the form of a trial or test of the doctrine or orthodoxy as compared with the liberal creeds of Christ- janity, The first open criticism which Mr, Moody's system of evangelization encountered was the Sunderland sermon, which was reported in the HeRALD some two weeks ago. The effect which it pro- duced is somewhat remarkable, as is shown by the numerous demands made for it, as well as by the mul- titude of letters which are received in turn from cler- gymen and laymen ata distance, Many of these com- munications warmly tndorse the sentiments advanced by the Unitarian divine, and not a few dissent from and criticise them, It 1s well, perhaps, that these dif- ferences in views are to find full expression, for thus far they have seemed to stimulate rather than retard the progress of revivalism. Many who are curious at first are likely to be entertained, then charmed and in- terested, and finally, and almost unconsciously, they find themselves turning their thoughts from the line of worldly affairs toward the blessed direction of right- eousness, This idea is not simply sentimental, but 4s based upon circumstances which have actually oc- curred in this vicinity during the last two months Mr. Moody, for instance, has probably wrought thirty or forty conversions in the little village, and since Rev. Mr. Sunderland, the Unitarian pastor, commenced his system of evangelization he has succeeded in persuad- ing quite a numberto turn from the path of wicked- ness, Fourteen joined his church last Sunday, and as many more will unite with it two or three Sabbaths hence. Tho criticisms of the different forms of theol- ogy, it will thus be seen, are fortunately productive of good rather than evil. ‘MR. SUNDERLAND’S VIRWS OF MR. MOODY AND HIS WORK. In @ recent interview with Rev. Mr. Sunderland, whose sermon has created such a profound sensation throughout the country, I obtained a full and frank expression of his views of Mr. Moody and his works and the results of hia work here in Northfield. “How far are your societies affected by this revival movement going on in your village?” I asked, “Very little indeed. Two or three persons, partially attached to the congregation, will very likely leave us, But I have, as yet, no reason to suppose that any who are connected with either the church or the parish will be drawn away. So faras I can learn, the general feel- ing among my people is one of increased appreciation of and attachment to our Unitarian faith as they see the opposing orthodox faith as presented by Mr. Moody and his helpers standing in contrast with it, Only a day or two ago two young ladies of mach tntelligence came to mo and requosted the privilege of joining the Unitarian Church, saying, that since attending tho meetings of the past four weeks and hearing the doctrines of orthodoxy preached, they were so deeply impressed with the superior beauty and truth and preciousness of our Iib- oral Christianity that they wanted, without further do- lay, to identify themselves with it.”” “Do you think your people feel any alarm lest the cause-of liberal Christianity in the community shall be weakened by this revival?” “On the contrary,” Mr, Sunderland replied, “the fecling seems to be quite general among them that our cause will be strengthened. It seems to be the prevail ing desire on the part of our leading Unitarians to re- ceive gladly, and with open minds and hearts, any and all good influences that are to be obtained from the meetings. Thus tho religious life of the society will doubtless be deepened and strengthened, while, so far ‘ag our doctrines are concerned, wo are only too glad to have them (as I have already intimated) appear in con- trast with tne doctrines preached by the churches opposed to our faith, When these moetings are over, and the people settle down once more into calm, sober thought, it ts beheved that the best religious intelli- gence of the community will more than ever set in the direction of Unitarianism.” “How do you think Mr. Moody’s own family are affocted by the preaching of the evangelist? I believe Tam right in my understanding that several of them are members of your society, am I not?” “Yos; most of his nearest re!atives here are members ofmy parish or charch, or both. I think they are much interested in the meetings going on, and very largely in sympathy with the general work of the evangelist. However, I am _ convinced that io belief they stand essentially where they have always stood. 1 think them to be Unitarians by thorough and intelligent conviction, and hence I have very little apprehension that anything now oc- curring will affoct them, so far as thoir Church relations are concerned. If I did not believe them to be Uni- tarians by conviction I should doubtless fool differently on account of the circumstances in which they are at present placed, being such as they are.” “What have been the results of the meetings up to thig time, 80 far as conversions aro concerned ?” “As to that I cannot say. Of course reports vary. I: doubt whether the number bas been as great as was anticipated. Indeed, the impression seems to be pretty general in the community, so far as I have come in con- tact with the people, that Mr. Moody and his friends are considerably disappointed at the results of the meetings. As to the number of conversions, you had bettor consult Mr. Moody or leading members of the other society. Of thoge who have risen for prayers very few of them have been persons of my acquaint ance.” “What do you think as to tho permanency of this work in Northfield?” “This is a matter about which I hesitate to express an opinion. Of course I hope that the influences of the revival, so far as they are good, will romain. I hope that those who have been converted from thoughtless- ness and irreligion to thoughtfulness and interest in religion will continue on in the way they have begun. But whether they will or not of course only the future can tel, I have myself been through a considerable number of revivals on both large and small scales, in both city and country, and have also watched the operations of many others tn which I bave not bad a personal part. Ihave seen a good deal of the revival work of Mr, Moody himself in Chicago, and I only wish 1 could have more confidence than I confess I do have in all this kind of way of trying to do good. It has not been my experience that revival work ia usually a deep work of a permanent work. And, moreover, I have been gradually forced to the conviction that @ great deal of positive harm comes from it in nearly or quite every case. Living during my earlier life, as I did, in the midst of revivals, and who belleved in’ revivals, I supposed them to be, beyond question, necessary and good, and it was only very slowly and reluctantly that I became convinced that this short-sighted view, and that there is another very serious side to this revival subject, ”” “So, then, | anderstand you think that the work done by revivalists is usually more like lighting a pile of shavings than it is like kindling # lasting fire of good, solid hickory wood. But say in addition to the transitory character of the that comes trom revivals, you think that act bad results often or usually come from them. Will you be so good as to plain what, so far as your observation goes, these bad results are.’’ 18 THE GOOD DONR TRANSITORY ? “Well, sir, you ask moa very grave quostion, and one to which f wonder that the attention of the think- ing religious veonle of thia couniry is nat oftanar di. NEW YORK HERALD, WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 6 1875—QUADRUPLE SHEET. Watertoo, kept her working men employed, gave them | partake of the blessings of God to nis creawures vo ease under almost incredible taxes, and secured to trade unexampled prosperity. Our late war tells the same story. Yet there are those who seem never able to rected. Of course netther you nor { nave time, nor is this the place, for me to say more than w very fow words mn reached by revival efforts, especially by the efforts | put forth in connection with this Moody aud Sankey movement, who would not be reached, or at | least who would not be reached so ' specdily and directly by any other instrumentality. | And if I were fooking only at immediate aud direct results, or even at results including @ brief future, I should doubtless regard such efforts as a good. But there is something more to all this kind of thing than what appears as the immediate fruit. My observa- | tion teaches me that it isn’ts Py thing for men use- | ally to drink liquor. Why not? Does it not produce ‘revival’ in thoir bodies and brains? To be sure it does. Both physical and mental nature work with an Unusual activity and vigor under the infuence of the liquor. And this would be something very much to be desired, if only there were not something | else sure to follow, What is that? A reaction. The | excitement of body and mind has been not natural, but unnatural; and hence the penalty must come of a’sub- sequent sinking below the natural level, equal to the preceding artificial forcing above it. So it is with all Qnnatural excitements, no matter what part of our na- ture they aflect Sot forever must be with such ro- | Jigious excitements as aro necessarily stirred up in re- Vival meetings But itis replied, is no excite- ment.’ ‘The meetings are very quiet.’ ‘Efforts are made to avoid excitement.’ 1 men that talk thus do not know what they are saying. I have had part in these so-called quiet revi carried on without ex- citement, and I know that the excitement of them is absolutely tremendous. The Papa ere agitations of mind are often stillest, But this maiter of a necessary Teaction does not ex) my whoie thought. A lew moments ago you used the illustration of a fire of shav- ings I am glad you did, for this reason: A je of shavings set on fre not only biazes up quickly and high and then very soom goes out, ana in this resembles most revivals, but it also leaves a bluckened spot where it was. | Who that has had his eyes open at all in reference to | these things does not know that tn almost all our com- munities there aro large numbers of porsons who, at one time or another, have been brought directly under | revival influences and have experienced what was | catled conversion, and for a little while have been | under the delicious frenzy of feeling which the revival- — ists talk so much about and which people are supposed | always lo get in connection with conversion? This de | lightful stato of feeling lasted & tiie while and then, when the revivalist was gone and the moetings began to grow fewer and duller and the regular routine of un- excited daily life was gone back to little by little, it somehow grew fainter and feobler, and ere: they knew it was gone altogether. And then they awoke to the consciousness: at it had ) at least to a large extent, only a delicious dream born of the magic influence of the revivalist and the unrealized but none the less powerful excitement ofthe meetings. What is the result? These persons turn away, some in sorrow, some in almost anger, more in mockery and giddiness, most of all in inditfer- ence—a stolid and growing indifference with reference to the whole subject of religion, Aud what of these persons henceforth? You need not talk any religion to them, thank you—they have tried it, Your revival has done for their religious nature just what that shaving fire did for the green grass under jt; or, to uso a better illustration still, it has done what our autcron forest fires do for our woods—it found verdure and life, it left Diackness and death. From that timo they aro relig- fously burned over; and the number of people in this country who are thus religiously burned over, as the result of revivals, is immense, Nor is even that, in my judgment, the worst thing about revivals as they are usually seen. Am 1 boring you, sir? You sce, Lam aclergyman, and before I know it I fall to preaching. But; sir, I shall hold that you are the responsible party for asking my opinion about this thing. You must learn never to wurn a faucet unless you want Lhe water to run. “No, no, go on! You hayen’t inundated me yet When the flood gets too great I'll let you know.”” GIVING THR SOUL STIMULANTS. “Well, sir, only one more thought. As I began to say, the worst thing about this revival matter, in my bigeye is not the reaction that follows, or even what have called the ‘burning over’ of the religious nature of 80 many people who come within the sweep of its fires. The worst thing about it all, as I think, is the fact that it tends to perpetuate itself, 1 mean every revival tends to produce a state of things in which re- vivals are necessary. As long a8 we continue to have revivals we must have them. It is only as we stop having them that we can ever come into thut healthy of things in which they will not ity. As it is now, the people of | this country are educated to the state of depending | upon them: On the part of the tereligious the feeling is very widely provalent. ‘Yes, I will sive attention to religion sometime when I happen to get tnio a re- vival’ And so yust numbers of people aro putting off the beginning of a religious life and the identifying of themselves with religious peoploand the moral reformation of their characters on account of the feeling that the proper time to make such a beginning is somebow a time of general religious awakening, Nor is it any better on the part of the churches. They have learned to put their dependence upon revivals to # degree that exerts @ lamentable influence upon themselves. Too many churches everywhere have fallen into the habit of sleeping nine months of every year, because these nine months are not the revival months, aud only waking up when the regular revival months come round. Aud then, when the “times of reviving” come, revival ser- mon are preached, revival hymns are resurrected, the attention of the people begins to be called to death, and ‘the judgment, and heaven, and hell, and all that class of subjects which work most upon the imagination and feelings, and have least to do with the duties and re- sponsibilities of this life, and as @ result @ revival is yroduced. I think there is almost nothing that operates BO fahoitil 4 to pervert the ideas of the Christian people of this country regarding the treu nature and right methods of moral and religious growth and education as revivals, I think thero is almost nothing that stands so much in the way of earn- est and intelligent work on the part of the churches in tho direction of sanitary reform, and social reform, and educational reiorm, and setting in operation and carry- ing forward the thonsand agencies that might be em- ployed to improve the physical and social aid montal and through these the moral and spiritual condition of the masses of the people as the excitements and senti- mentatisms and ‘‘other-worldliness” of revivals, And | 80. I say that, while I sce in revivals some good, I think 1 see in them even more siill of harm in all these direc- | tions mentioned; and hence, while I rejoice in the modi- cum of good that comes outof them, I confess that on the whole I can scarcely help but wish that revivals, as we now see them, might cease to be Very likely if they should cease from this time there might seem to be for a while a loss, But I am convinced that it would be @ logs that would result ere long ina real and nowise | insignificant gain, in the way of the incoming of vastly more intelligent ideas and methods of doing good and | benefiting men, and building up the true Kingdom of heaven on earth, There, sir, you asked me for my views on this revival matter.’ “I have given them to you in as few words as I could. However, if I should try to condense my thought still more, I should say that revivalism, as it too generally appears in this age, and the idea of soubsaving that underlies it, seem to | to me to be in religion essentially what quackery and | patent pill taking is in medicine,” j LIBERAL CHRISTIANS AS MISSIONARIES, “Do you think that liberal Christians generally in this country will favor the work of Mr. Moody, or will bax: oppose it??? “Ido not know, sir, As you must be aware, among Unitarians, more than perhaps among any other body of Christians, every church takes its own course pron orgy, A of others, and every minister stands on his own feet’ My opinion is, how- ever, that Unitarians generally wili take essentially the course that | have taken hore, viz. :—Go right for- ward to preach what they regard to be truth, and ao what falls in their regular way to do, with little refer- ence to anything done or said by Mr. Moody outside, making no demonstrations of 0; ition whatever, uniess driven to it in seli-defence, think our denom- ination, as a whole, will ie! avery ra A pr ge to everything which Mr. Moody or Mr. Sankey can do to accomplish any good. However, I have no doubt that the revivalists will find not a fow of our ministers | and laymen, in different places where they go, during to | ask some pointed, and, possibly, rather unwelcome questions as t the trath of some of the doctrines preached and the propriety of some of the methods em- loyed in their meetings It must be confessed that Vnitarians have the disagreeable habit of not always taking things for granted, and of insisting sometimes upon looking deeper than labels,”” VERY YRIKNDLY TO MR, MOODY. “The personal relations between yourself and Mr. Moody are friendly, 1 suppose??? “Oh most certainly; perfectly so, I much regretted tho necessity of saying a word that soomed to be in any ‘way in opposition to his meetings. 1 only did so when, as I have already intimated, I was driven w it in self defence, If be had preached one sermon or two, or three, no matter how fully charged they might have been ‘with doctrines that antagonize my own faith, I should probably have said nothing. It was not until the meetings had gone on week after week, and every single distinctive doctrine of Unitarianism had been attacked again and again, that I uttered in publio any- thing in any sense controversial And then it was hot Mr. Moody, oF anything peculiar to Mr. Moody, that I directed what I had to say against, -but the | general principles and teachings of orthodoxy. My | controversy was not with him, but with his theology. | “I am very sorry indeed if I am misunderstood by | any body as not being ‘able to recognize in Mr. Moody and bis Work a great deal thatis admirable, I do recog- nize in him a sincerity, @ zeal, an earnestness of piety, adesire to do good which I*profoundly appreciate and which might fe emulated by Christian people every. where. I only regret that his zeal is nota great deal | more a zeal ‘according to knowledge’ than it seems to | mo to be, and on the basis of @ theology a great deal | broader and richer and more worthy ot it,”? OPINION OF AM ATTENDANT OF “THR CHURCH Acnoss Tu Way.’ | Among others whom I have conversed with on the | subject of Mr. Moody, and the services which he has | Conducted hore in Northfold, is one of the distinguished | mombers of Mr. Sunderland’s church. His views he | expressed in moderate language, and he was very par- ticular to have it understood that he believes the evan- + perhaps, some little amount of good in le doos not think, howevor, that the re- nowned her ts wearing as well as it was expocted hewould, ‘Indeed,” he said very truly, “it is coming to be remarked that the discourses which be has been giving lattorly are by no means equal w those which he gave whon he first arrived here.” “In what mannor are they deficient?”’ I asked. “They are far more fragmentary and disconcerted; they are coming to be less and loss sermons—I mean discourses—having a unity and a plan and more and more running comments upon a great number of pas- of Scripture, selected with little apparent idea of ne or sequence, but bearing in a general way upon tho subject under consideration; and he is begimning ver noticeably to repoat himselt.’? in “Have you heard what his programme of operatio is to be or why he is so reluctant to announce his in- tontions?”” omy is doin, is midst upon this subject, I have no doubt that persons are | RD out, However, whether any definite programme operations for the fuil and winter is yet fixed upon, sy no intimatvions are given ax to what it 1s."" “What of the results of the meetings held here ?”” “Well, I cam only very imperfectly say. A few have professed conversion. “Most of these are persons whe are noted, I ain told, for * GOING WHIOUBVER WAY THR WIND BLOWS, and have little stability of character, Some of them have bwen hard cases, If these will stay converted we shall alt rejoice; but I, in company with a great many others, have quite as many fears as hopes. If the meetings close now the orthodox Church and cause im the comunity will be somewhat strengthened, though not greatly, [think the general impression ‘is, even among Mr. Moody's frien that his work here has been on the whole rather # failure than otherwise. 1 think he feels it so himself His congregations, while they have beon # part of the time respectable in si: yethave at no time been anything like what he i | pected and at the’ beginning announced — tha they probably would be. Nor has he been able to hold his congregations, On the first Sunday the attendance was much larger than it has been at any time since; and, on the departure of Messrs. Sankey, Bliss, White and Stoart, the at teudance fell off Iu a very marked degree, It is my judgment that Mr. Moody made a great mistake im beginning his work in this country in New England, and especially in beginning it in a place where people are so uniformly intelligent aad habituated to th a for themselves as the people of Northfield are. He hi better gone outside of New England, and to a large city. Ido. not predict for him success anywhere, ex- — in large cities. There, if the orthodox churches will back him, as they did in England and Scotland, I shink he will accomplish considerable, though | have ‘no sort of idea that bo is going to tind his career im this country anything equalling his career there. ”’ “How have the revival meetings aifected the Unita- Man cause’in Northfield?” _ “1 think we aro stronger than we have ever been. Nota momber of Mr. Sunderland's society, so far as I know, and oot more than two or three members of hie cougrogation, show any indication of being drawn from US Our congregations are large; our Sunday school flourishes; our people were never more united; 1 dor not think our society ever stood higher in the estima ton of the community generally.” “As to the feeling of Mr. Sunderland’s society toward Mr. Moody?” “1 think it is generally kindly, and has been from the beginning. But of course they have no sympathy with his theology or with his methods of work and aro only more and sore surpriged that intelligent people anywhere in the light of the nineteenth century can fallin with either. Qne good effect I am sure Mr Moody has had upon us all, and that is to make us prize our particular religious taith more than we have ever done, when we see Mr. Moody’s theology placed along side of it.” “How was that sermon of Mr. Sunderland’s, two weeks ago, received by the community ?”” “The people of the town, of ali faiths and no faith, seem to have become thoroughly aroused by that ser- mon of a week ago, and | believe it was printed in the Heraup, In addition to its publication in the HxRaLD it has been printed in one of our local papers, the Franklin County Times, and also in pamphlet form, the latter by request and subscription of the society. Of the pamphlet edition 1,000 copies were first printed, supposing these would be all that would be required. But soon the call for them became so great that 2,000 and then 5,000 more were printed, and the demand is already going far beyond these, 'Mr, Sunderland 18 urged to pul lish an’ edition of 100,000 copies at once, for circulation throughout the country. Requests for the sermon are pouring in from all directions—some coming from as tar away as Michigan and Illinois. From several places there have been applications for 600 copies each, for general circulation as. a liberal tract. The society had been desired to supply parties in Brattleboro with 500 to 700 copies for distribution there before the coming of Mr. Moody. “Do you apprehend wat Mr. Sunderland will con- tinue his liberal missionary work 1 opposition to orthodoxy as expounded by Mr. Moody?” “On, yes; for he followed that first sermon up by another bearing upon anotber phase of the Moody and Sankey revival. is subject was the ‘Salvation of the Life that Now Is,’ and the same discourse he repeated at Greenfield in the evening, and he has had numerous Tequests to issue it in pamphlet form,’? WILL NOBTHVISLD BE THE MRADQUARTERS OF EVANGEL- ism? Mr. Moody ts very shy of disclosing what he purposes todo in the future. Whether he wiil, after leaving here, begin his work in New York or Philadelphia or elsewhere is a matter which he keeps entirely to him- self. In fact, I doubt if he knows exactiy what he will do, and it is’as likely as anything elso that he will Tefaain here in Northileld for the presout. He has pur- chased a farm adjacent to the one owned by nis broth: ers, and the idea is generally entertained that not only Mr. Moody himself, but Mr. Sankey, Major Whittle and ail the other evangelists identified with him will make this their future home. Ho went to New York last evening, bus will return in time to preach his usual afternoon sermon next Sunday. WELSH PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH. CLOSING SESSION OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AT SCRANTON, PA.—ORGANIZATION OF 4 MINISTERS’ AID SOCIETY—WELSH MINISTERS RECOMMENDED TO LEARN THE ENGLISH LAN- GUAGE, Scrantox, Pa, October 4, 1875. Tho closing session of the General Assembly of the Welsh Presbyterian Church of the United States, which just brought its labors to an end in this city after a woek’s defiberations, was dovoted to the organization of a Ministers’ Aid Society, for the relief of superannu- ated pastors and the widows and orphans of deceased ministers, The importance of such an organization was vory for- cibly set forth, and its necessity conceded by every member of the Assembly. At present there are no provisions for the maintenance of disabled ministers of this religion, nor for the relief of their families in case of death or disasters, and the inaugura- tion of such a society is looked upon as one of the most important works of the Assembly. A constitution and bylaws providing for a board of trustees, consisting of threo elders from each State represented in the Assem- bly, to take charge of and administer the funds of the society, were adopted, and aboard organized as fol- lows :—President, Uriah Davis, Columbus, Wis. ; Secre- tary, John Humphreys, West Bangor, Pa; Treasurer, R. R. Owens, Newark, Obio, The remainder of the trus- tees are Evan T. Jones, Oshkosh, Wis.; James Morris, Milwaukee; RE. Hughes, Zion, Minn.; Evan Evans, South Bend, Ind.; W. J. Williams, Foreston, Iowa; Philip James, Pittsburg, Pa ; D. G. Williams, Oak Hill, Ohio; Owen Owens, Fair Haven, Vt.;T. Salomon Grif- fiths, Utica, N. Y.; Robert Lewis, New York city; J. R James, Hyde Park, Pa., and Hugh Davis, Slatington, Pa, These gentlemen were empowered to make the re- maining appointments necessary for a full board as contemplated in the constitution and bylaws laid down for its government. ‘The plan proposed for the “ Ministora’ Aid Fund” ia to raise immediately a fund of $20,000 to be invested permanently, and the interest to be devoted to the relief of such cases of aestitution as might from time to time arise. PASTORAL CHARGES, Tho matter of pastoral charges within the Welsh Presbyterian denomination throughout the United States was discussed at length, and the necessity for a more thorough system demonstrated by most convine- ing argument, It was finally referred to a committee, who, after due deliberation, submitted the following series of resolutions, which were taken up, talked over ‘and adopted seriate Whoreas there are so many churches in the several States which are not under pastoral care, and many min- istors holding no pastoral relation to any church or churches; Resolved, That wo urgo the State associations, through their districts, to point out the harm done in this respect, and to urge all the churches to secure pastoral care with as. much regularity as possible, so that no church may be with- out & pastor, and no minister without holding pastoral rela- tion with some church or churches. Resolved, That this assembly most earnestly recommends that all ministers buying no pastoral charge at present do fem gan themseives from all worldly cares and caliing and bold themselves ready to listen to the calis of the eharehes for their services. Resolved, That wo consider it the duty of all the churches to for the services of their ministers as liberally and honorably as their circumstances will permit, vd are pained to find beotir d reasons to believe thi his present In many localities is lamontubly neglected. ve That we recommend our denomination to or- ganize Enatiat Calvinistic Methodist churches in such places where it ls manifest our young people turn to English eburches of other denominations. ally our younger ‘olonrn the English language, so Bhat they ‘may preach the gospel in that tongue whenever necessity may cail for it and that they proach in English in their own churchos whenever necessa: Resolved, That we call the expecta nomination, through the State asso we by at tension of our de- jons and quarterly meetings, ak well as the churches respectively, to our young men in the ministry that have one through colleges, also those who have not yet finished their education, In order re & field of labor for them within our own denomina- Pastors in attendance at the Assembly preached im the several Welsh churches of the city yesterday. At the Methodist Episcopal church the services obtained an increased interest by the singing of tha united Welsh choirs of Hyde Park and Bellevue, numbering 800 voices, who gave, with capital effect, ‘Rise up, | arise” (Mendelssonn), and “The Heavens are telling’? (Haydn). A large nutnber of the delegates was present and seemed highly pleasea with the performance. The several ors Teh Tor their respective bomes this after. hoon. {t has boon definitely decided to hold the next General Assembly in Septomber, 1877, at Chicago, A NUISANCE IN CORTLANDT STREET, Naw York, Oot. 5, 1875, To tux Eprror or tas Herauy:— For months past the south side of Cortlandt street, between the Merchants’ Hotel and Greenwich street, has been continuously obstructed, both on the side. walk and tho passageway of the main street, by carta and carmon, and particularly py the dealers in iron pipe, Adam Carr & Co, It is impossible for a lady to pass from the ferry through this, one of the best known, strecta, to Broadway, without danger of either a torn dessa or soiling it. Nor can a private or public vehicle pass to the ferry for a train without obstruction and datay sufficient to cause loss of train. The attention of the “best police in the*world” has been called ta “No; bat I understand invitations still pour in upon _him to go Wo one,piace and another to hold moctings 1 J, Can nothing be done in the orgimisos ¥ this annoyance and nuisance without avail, BL