Omaha Daily Bee Newspaper, December 20, 1891, Page 10

SHOULD THE STATE CONTROL? An Interesting Discursion Upon ths G vern= men'al Ownership of ths Telegraph. EMINENT ELECTRICIANS, IDEAS OF W hat the Exponents Antagonists of the Question Said at the Recent Meeting of th York Electrieal Club, New The address delivered by Mr. F. Rose- water on *Postal Telegraphs of turope,’ be foro the Now York Blectric club, was fol- lowed by a discussion of government tele- graphs, participated in by several men of great prominence in tho electrical field T'ho first publication of this aiscussion ap- peared in the Now York Electrical Review of Docember 12 as written from the verbatim notes of the club stenographer. This discus- sion throws fully as much light on the postal telograph question as did the address, and will be found very instructive by all parties who may be interested in the sub) Fol- lowing is the debate. Mr, Rosewater said Beforo concluding, I want to say that in advoacating the transformation of our system of telograph to the postal system I have no porsonal interast whatever beyond that of o citizen of the United States. I have no griovanco against auy telograph oficial. [ amon the very best of terms with all the Waestera Union officials so far as I kiow, and with the Postal telegraph officials, so far as I know. 1 have always been on good terms with them. The paper, of which I own the greater part is a member of tho Associated Pross,. Wo have leased wires and wo pay the Western Union, probably, from $15,000 to £20,000 a year for special sorvice; so that I have no grievance what- evor, personal or political. I have uothing to redress, But for moro than twenty-five years 1 have been convinced that sooner or later tho government, ns a matter of mili- tary necessity, and as a matter of commer- cial necessity, and in the interest of the soctal intercourso of tho common people of the Umted States, must own tho tolegrapn and operate it; and this conclusion all aisinterested pw ties must reach when they examine imps tlallythe figures and the records that are presonted by the reports of tho Western Union Telograph company and other com- panies of this country, and the reports that have boen made abroad by tho different gov. ernmontal postal telegraph ofticials, Thero is 0o doubt whatever that our wire system is snormously overloaded. We have miore wires than wo need and we have them in the wrong p.ace, aud we do not serve one-half the people with telographic facilities that ought to have them and at a lower prico than they now are; and we cannot lower tho prices so long as the present system prevails, Competition is always followed by combin- ations end one company springs up and de- clares, liko all the newspapers that spring up, that they are here to stay, but iu a short time they are swallowed by the great American anaconda. I do not blame tae anaconda for swaliowing them. They are not very desirable wmorsels, As a matter of fact, “hey have congested the anaconda very badly. (Laughter.) But it 13 0ne of those laws of necossity. Now, how much longer is this to continue? Tho pres- ent telographic system of this country is stocked for avout 100,000,000, a little more than that. Upon that the pasople of the United States, the patcons of these tolegraphs, aro paying, independont of the excessive cost of maintaining and oporating, 5,000,000 or more as dividends. Now, $,000,000 on the British basis, or upon the busis that we can establish, for our credit is justas good as that of Great Britain, represents a capital- Izatlon of §200,000,000, and we could better afford today to pay $200,000,000 for the Amer- ican telegraph systems, and wipe them out of existenco and pluce them under tho control of the government, than we can to continue this system and keep on, like a snow ball, colling and rolling and enlarging, and waking it utterly unpossible in the future to deal with the problem that must sooncr or later meet us again—I speak of the problem of handling telogranh dispatches during time of war. Itis ail well in time of peace. But those who have been where I was auring the rebeltion realize, porhaps as fully as anyone can, that a governizent that does not coutrol the arteries of communication ard tho system which is equivalent to the nervous system of tho body, cannot possibly sustain itself in time of ar without serious disastor and without an enormous increase ot expenso and a prolongation of the war costing millions of dollars and many *hundreds and thou- sands of ‘lives, I have said it and I can repeat 1t tonight, that I am fully couvinced, if the government of tho United States had owned the wires at the outbreak of the vebellion in 1561, the wa would not have lasted more than two years. But L canuot digress in this way now, and I will leavo it to other gontlemen, for I'would Iiko to have this matter thoroughly discussed. There are two sides to it, as has boen said before, und [ would be pleased to hoar from thoso 'who differ with mo on this quastion, I thauk you very much for your kind atton- tion. (Applause). The charwan (M. Erostus Wiman)—Lam sure the club is very much indobted to Mr. Rosewater for the very admirablo address that bo has presentod, and [ am delighted to see touight so many bractical telographors and electrical men in the voom talk on this subjoct. It does not become mo, as the pre- siding officer, to criticizo I any dogree the very oxcellent address that Las boen pre sented, especially as beiug in the position of adirector of the great American anaconda ho bas spoken 0f und as president of one of the little annexes away off in the northwestsrn land. But I cannot take my seat withoutex pressing a seuso of surprise and disappoiat- ment that the arguments in favor of a gov- ernment telograph are so fow and so imma- ture in the mind of the geatleman who has road tho address. It seems tuat the pueu- matic system of London 1s the strougest slaim for government telegraphy. [ caunot Imagine thut we eannot huve the pneumatic system in - Now York, Boston and Philadelphis, and even Omahn, as complote as they have 1t in Loudon, it we want to, and why it is neces' sary that we should have a govornment con trol for thut is beyond my comprebeusion, For the present moment the single argument in favor of the postal ‘telegraph system of o governmental character is the pueumatic sys- tem in London. There are many other points in the address, however, that it is not now uecessary o go into. But there is just one [ would like to mentfon, and that 1s tho revela- tion again of the fact that the government were fools enough to refuse for $100,000 the stupendous means of instantancous com munication that now throbs through this country. If they were fools enough at that day torefuse that groat gift for that small sum, what sonso bas the government since got that it will not be as foolish again under similar circumstances! |Appluuse.| 1 am very much disappointed, 1 am alwost sorry that my friend has given us so much information and so little argument, 1 onfess 1 do not see one siugle thing on which @ thread of an argument cau rest in favor of goverumont telegraphy, »x06pt it be that the business of the nows: papers is all seut to the intelligence oftice in London. Now, at the time of an election, woen Boss Platt1s on one side of the road and Boss Croker on the other, and all the in- formation for the uewspapers is sent to the intelligence oftive, I should be very sorry to be a director in the Western Union uunder such circumstauces, because it would seem to me If we did 'not have tho informa- uon to suit Boss Platt ho would dismiss us all the next morning, or if it did not suit Mr. Croker be would dismiss us the mext morafng. The conditions that rn all on the other side are so entirely dif- forent. The principles of self-goverument are 50 developed bere that every maa is & overeign, himself and there is no'relation at all as to the transmission of information, and wspeolally a3 1o the press reports vetween ot. THE | what would ocour in England or (fermany | or Austria, and what would ocour in New ork. I do not see, in all the information our friend has given us about the lowest rates and splondid service thev render, what protection they would have If the do trin which underlies our government, namely, to the victor belongs the spoils, pre- vails in telegraphy as it does in postoffices aud every other part of cur government sys s always been a matter of surprise to t those who say that the government should go into any business should want to have it go into eloctricity. [t scoms to me it would be better to go'into oil. If the go erument wants to do the people good and ex- ercise paternalism over them, oil would be very much more adapted to its purpose, The objection against tho present system of tel graphy is that it is o monopoly. It is not nearly the monopoly that oil is. There is a great deal more monopoly today in the Standard Oil company than there 1s in the Western Union compiny. Thero is only ono oil company and there are forty telegraph panics, A wan can go to Wail straet and u sharo at about 80 or 83 in the Weste To save his soul he can not Tt 1s a fact that not 3 per cent of tn population of tho United States use the tolegraph; while I believo 97 per cent uso oil. In England, it is said, that nearly overy post offico has u telograph, and if in America every post office were to have atel graph, the daficiency, with our 60,000 post- offices, would bo so_groat that the entire surplus, with which we are so nuch bu deued just now, notwithstanding the great pension system,would be entirely obliterated. I marvel what would have become of this country if tho governmeat had acquired the telograph. Compare it with the navy, until the last three years, until Mr. Whitnoy, u good democrat, kot hoid of it, who was s coeded by Mr. Tracy, a good republican What has boen the expendituro on the navy since Mr. Morio was refused his $100,0001 Millions and millions; and yet we did not have a craft on which wo could place tho slightest relianco. Look at tho War depart- mout, the most complete that wo have and the least influenced by political considera- tion, to Staten Island and to Governor's Islana and look at tho miserable system of detenso that therois. See o great War de- partment and @ great Navy department spending millions and mllions of dollars and vet remaining a most inoni- cient “condition. 1 marvel what would have ppened to this country if the means of instantaneous com- munication over its broad expanse wero in the hands of Mr, Wanamakor, who is o good man for the bargain counter o, who might not succeed beyond that. | mar- vel at the fact that such a thorough going man as my good friend Rosewater should for a moment stand up and arguo in favor of a government telograph. 1 feol sorry, in a cer- tain seuse, that oy friend has not given a votter argument. Still, at the samo time, T feel sure that my good friend Mr. Foote, whom I will call upon, will give us something on the other side. Mr. Allon F'. Foote—I think that Mr. Rose- water and Mr. Wiman have both lost sight of the fact thut whoevor operates tho telegranh, whether it is donoe under the ownership of 4 corporation or unaer goveromental owner- ship, Iust empioy peoplo to do the work. Those people. in this _country, arc bound to be politicians. We have politics on both sides overating the telegraph and there has nover been any complaint from cither political party that they were bad troated under the present system; but how they would get along under government own- eship I do not know. Mr. Kosewater closed papor with the statoment that it was nec- for the safoty of this country that tho government should” own the telegruph. Wo haye supposed that it was necossary for tho safety of this country thatthe government stouid own its army. Whon the civil war broke out in 1861, the men who were loyal handled the telegraph kevs loyally. Themen who were disloyal did tho other thing. We had in our government men who we edqucated at West Poit, and one of them became pre: ident of the southern confedevacy. The gov- ernment owned West Point, and owns it yet. If government ownership were o security against disloyalty thero should have boen no disioyal men in the southern army who were educated at West Point. Wil Mr. Rosewater say to this audienceor to his association of Old Mime Tolegraphers or to the Military Telegrapher's association, that the service was not safe in their hands dur- ing the war! Was not that service dono well and loyally! Mr. Rosewater pald a com~ pliment to the oporators in America by say- ng that one operator in America would do about twice the work that an DQGI‘Illfll‘ill Sngland would do—two to one. My obser- vation of the way clerks work in the ‘city of Washington is, that the clerks in your™ of- ficesin your private business do twice tho work that the clerks in Washington do—two to one. I do not see in that any reason why the government should own the telegraph (Applause.) I understood Mr. Rosewater to say that the countries in Europe whero the goverument owns the telegraph are as_quick Totake up iventions aud utilize them as they are in this country. I understood him to say, also, that in three out of four coun- trios that he visited, messages were received vy the recording Morse instrument; that the ouly exception was England, where the worked by sound. I may have misunder- stood, but " that is the way I understood hum. T am Somewhat disappointed that Mr. Rose- water told us so much about the dotail— the mechanism of tho tolegraph—and so little of the argument of government own- orship. I am not clear now, from what he has stated, whotnor he means to advocate gov- ernment ownership or government control. Thero is quite a broad differeace betwacn the two. Not knowing what Mr. Kkosewater was to say this evening, I took a reported inter- viow with him, which appoars in the Ele trical Review. We aro ander tho impression that a postal tolegraph systom means aun offico at each postoflice. T'hat is the impression given out. Wo find that is not the caso in Eagland, ac- cording to tho vest statistics I can get. In England, i 1509, thero wore 17,320 postofices and 7,021 telegraph oflices, being one telo- ofticefor every two and one-half In tho United States for 1801, theso statistics arc from Almanac, toere aro 66,000 postoflices and 25,001 telegraph oftices, oing ono telegiapn office for every 2 1-12 postoflices, so that tho percentago of telegraph oftices to postofiices in this country is a little greator than it is in England. In England the mereaso in the number of telo- graph oflices for two years from 1587 to 1830 was 517, There wore 3,514 oflicos in 1837 and 31 in 1880, In the United States the in- reaso for the samo time was 3. 116, the offices being in 1857, 15,570, and in 180, 15,802, Tae increase for iZngland on 6,514 offices is but s per cent, whilo the increase for the United States on 15,576 oMicos is about 20 per cent, “Phcreaso for the Unitod States, #,116 oftives, on that number of oMicos in_Kngland, is nearly 48 per cent, against the English in- crouse of but 8 per cont. Mr. Rosowater did say that we had too many wires heroand that the country was doiug about one-balf the business 1t ought to do. We may look to tho explanation of that in this little detailed statement of telegrab oftices por population. lu Eugland, taking the census of 1351, and adding 10 per cent to bring it up to dat there 1s one oftice for every 5,500 pepulation In tho United States, thera is one ofice for every 2,400 population. I wonder why Mr. Rosewater did not stay in England and get the people to extend thesbenefits of tho tele- kraph, so that the peoplo mizht bo served in equal proportiou to the United States, The size of the country has somothing to do with tho problem-—telégraph offices to Euglan In Bugland there is one oftice t 17.37 square miles. In the United States thers is oue oftice 1o 131 square miles. ‘The population to the square mile has something to do with )t In England there are 320 to one square mile. In the United States there ure I7. square mile, Tuo area and population to tolograph ot- ficos compares as follows ; gland, ares, 17.27 square miles; tion, 5,520, United States, area, 131 square miles; pop- lation, 2,340, A short time ago it bocame my duty to wakoe a schedule for correoting statistics of tolegraph companies for the eleventh census of the Unitod iStates. In a ocircular report whish [ called for from the compauies they wanted to enter commercial messages, press messages, ote. I sald o, what I wait is a voport that will show what the farm or and the wage workers of this country are paying for the service you aro rendoring 1n comparison with what the same class of peoplo pay for the sorvice rendered them by governmeuts that owa and operate the telograph systom in foreign countries. For this reason I would admit to tho report full rate,nighit rate and the money transfor messages only, and atthe rate now being paid over the country by anyoue who may have occasion 1o use the telegraph. I bave wade up the figares on 5,353 full rate mes- sages, 614 nignt rate messages and six mouoy vollove the World popula- OMAHA DAILY BEE AY DECEMBER 20, 1891-SIXTEEN teansfer messages. 1 find that those mos sages contained 105,014 words, words in the address, body and signature of the messago, making an averags of 218 words per message, The roason for count- 10g the words in This W ments owning and operating a system count_and charge for overy word transmitted. The Engiish rate would be 21 conts por message. Tho tolls _paid for these mossages in the United States average 41! conts, So that on the face of the showing thus far mado it would appear that the rate in this country s double that of Eneland. [ nd, however, that the average mileage of those messages was 540 miles, and vorago distance from New York to the places to which they were sentis 603 miles. On an aceount of distance the office in trans- mitting 8,078 messages repeated over 11,000 messago in the same period of time, ' As the biggest distance in England is not over 600 miles it s roasonuolo to assume that the average miieage of 8,078 messages sent out from London will tlot exceed one-half the averago mileage of the messages sent from New York. Therefore, mossages from New York averaging 540 wiles at 411 conts ure as cheap ns messages from Condon ‘aging one-half the distance at 21 cents . I'his, however, is not the whole story. Messages were sent at tho rate given in aty direction desired from New York. England is not large enough to mako & comparis with the United States. Wa are compelled to take Europe for such a purpose. If the citizon of London wishes to send his mes- sagos 500 or 600 milos from London he must £0 into other conntries, as the American citi zen goes from state to state, Let this be tried and then make a comparision of Iuropean rates with United States rates, I'ne rates in Now York on 8 averaging 21.82 words and 411, ceuts, ‘T'ho 78 messages 10 miles was ate from London for_a 82 words to Sweden is 8174, nited States rate for the same distance 411 conts, To Norway, $L52 United States ate for the sume distance 411 cents. To Germany, §1.30, neaiost 41y cents, To Austria, $1.52, against 411{. To Corisca, cents, ' against 411, To Spain, $L.74, against 415, 1 suppose this is plain why so many people cowo to this country. It nust be to enjoy the priviloge of telégraphing a long distance at the low price charged by our grinding monopoly. - (Applause and laughter.) I do not kuow whether Mr. Rosewater can be said to be the representative of the post- naster general or mot; but I do know that we can judge of the kind of advice that the postmastor general has roceived on telo- graph matters Ly his oficial utterances. Hero is n government cireular dated Juno 1801, which says, fixing the rate for gover ment messages, ton words, exclusive of placo from, date, address and signature, 10 conts 1o all distances, 400 miles, As the messago actually counts twenty words, that is 10 ents for twenty words for 400 miles, Half acenta word tor additional words. Half a cent for each word in the body. I would like to have Mr. Rosewater state,if he would, 17 he bel'eves that 2 churee of one-half a cent a word will pay the expenseof doing the business over a distance of 400 miles. On June 29, 1539, the postmaster genoral issued order fixing tho rate ut I mill a wora, espectively, for all messages, day und uight. If 1 mill a word for all d tunces day and night was o fair honest compensation in 180, I would iike to know what bas increased the cost of tele- graph sorvics to bring it up to hall a cent word now. There is ono point in this Review articlo that T want to refer to, und Mr. Rosewater can easily sot himself right if he is wrongly reported. I would buy out all tho telegraph linos in America and’ then advertise for proposals, and have them oper. ated by private companies under the con- trol of the government, fixing the rates aod requiring them to report their earnings from tune to time to the government. When the receipts exceeded 10 per cent upon the in- vested capital, their investment, being ratuer small, I should insist upon their reducing the rate.” I suppose he meant dividends instead of receipts, ‘Lo give an idea of what Rosewater considers a_small capital, ho is reported here s saying that the zovern- ment at tho time, that is February 27, 1566, when the governmont turned ovor its ' lines tothe private companies—the goverument at that time owned 41,211 miles of land line and 178 miles of submarine cable. I under- stand that to meau miles of wire iustead of miles of line. Heis reported to have said that the proverty was worth $2,000,000 or $3,000,000. Was it miles of line orm iles of wire? Mr. Rosewater—I presume wire, Mr. Foote—Assuming that Mr. Rosewater means miles of wire and that ho will prob- ably agree that the true valuation would be the averago between his extremes, the state- ment may be construed to mean that the gov- ernment owned 14,330 miles of wire worth $2,500,000, or about $174 per mile. At this rate the present valuation of the combined 1oileago of the Western Union and Postal Telegraph-Cable companies is $1135,:332,5834, Now, if the military tolograph lines were worth $174 a mile, ivis fair to presume that the lines that aro working now commercially are worth us much. Oa’ that compu however, tho capitalization of these cow- panies - does not begin to reach the values given to it by Mr. Rosewater. That may bo where the watered stock is to com in. 1 am of opinion that 1f Mr. Rosewater can induco the government so to fix rates that those companies ean earn 10 per coat on this valua- tion, that they will ewve himan exclusive coutract to attend lo their stock watering hereaftor. Government ownership is advocated by Mr. Rosewater as a principle. In my opinion the principls is radically wrong. It is op vosed. as I understand the matter, to the ¢ fundamoutal laws that govern all human actions. When you sepurate a man from any diroct interest in his work or any hopo of having a direct interest in his work, you separato that man from the most active eloment that cau induce him to be thrifty, saving, progressive, observing aud careful in overyrhing ho doos.” I do not suppose that any of you gentiemen will admit for one mo- ment that there has ever been a work under taken by government that has been executed at anything Like the cost it could bo aoue for by private parties. A gentloman with whom ['was conversing in Boston not long ago—a very competent engineer—obserying the work of government buildings, of forts and arso- nals, ote., told me that he aid not believe that, with two or threo exceptions in these United States, thore had been one siugle in stance whers a government building bad been put up at anvihing like the cost it could have been put up for by private parties. He ostimatea that the excessive cost was at least 100 per cent. In other words, it cost the government twico s much to do the work as it would private parties. Assum- iag, for the sake of argument, that the capi- talization of these telegravh companies couid bo agreed upon—they have nccepted a law passed by congress in 150 witich defines the way in which the government can acquire possession of the telegraph companies. 1f that were to bo carried into operation, tho capitalization agreod upon aud the interost on tho capital figured at the same rate that the governwont pays on its bonds, the capi- talization question would bo out of the way. Then comes the question of wain- teuance and operating expeuses. I do nou think any ome will suppose for an instance that those exponses, operating under covernment coutrol in this country, wouid come aaywhere within the limits that they do under private management. Ido not think that 20 per cent differenco would be any too large a margin to allow for that. Therefore, I assume that the telegraphs of this country, operated under private man- agement, dolng & business of the same rate that it would eost the government to do the busiuess, could pay at least a 10 per cont dividend, and at the same time be giving the service at what the ordinary politician culls cost, which 1s what it would cost the govern- meut. ‘The absence of statistics in all these de- tails 15 ono of the weak points 1 the argu- ment. When we do not have statistics which both sides can agree upon as being true and acourate, we canuot follow our argument through its lezitimate course, I have under my hands the work of ottaining theso statistics from toe tolegraph companies in the United States. That work will be accomplished iu the course of itime, provided that the government will furnish the funds to do the work. We are now practically at a standstill. Those .of you who want to have the statistics made up in that way will have 10 assist in getting the appropriation. (Ap. plause). Mr, fusull: On hearing our friend, Mr Wiman talk of commercial union, I never bave boen able to make up my mind whether he talked as a resident of the United States with large iaterests here or as subject of the queon as I beliove heis today. But when Lo gets up here to talk to us on the question. of government control of telegraphs, there is not the slightest doubt from whence he draws his experieuce. 1f be is afraid of Mr. Boss Platt at one time having coutrol of our it is miles of counting all | ay is that the govern- | tolegraph | the | telograph sysfem and nsing it for his own partioular interest, and of Tammany poli ticians having control of it another time, he evidently i drawing upon the experience of his friends ana fellow subjects in Canada, whore wo find logs of troublo with the tories i the Dominion and with the liberals in Quabec, S0 far as Mr. [oote’s remarks are con cornod, when ho first addressed you, he re- forred 1o tho troatment of inventors, I think. There is ouo tifik that those of us who go to the other siga, must have noticed, that whilst our telegraph companies here and our tolephone compatiies hore woro srguing as to the impossibilityof placing their wires unaer- ground, that thit same work had been done in London by't}ip postal telegraph dopart- mont for yoars past, and it would seem from that that Whe telegrapn companies hore cou- sider not so much public convenionce as thoir own pockets, ‘Tne question of goverument control of anything, I presume, depends upon the particular principlo of government that we should have the greatest possible good to the groatest numbe Joes it seem reasonablothat the pioneer who goes to the northwest, I will take Mr. Wiman's side of the line, and starts to develop acoun- tey, or if ho wishos to communicate with his base of supplies, should be taxed to the ex- tent, not of 12 cénts for twenty words, butof 13 cents for a singlo word! Cau that leaa to therapid development of any new country ! If it is reasonable that the man living in the Kocky mountains snall have to pay $1 for ten words and be without the advantage of a night rate, why is it not reasonable that the same man, if he requires the protection of our military, shall pay much higher rates of taxes than the peopls living in a city 1i New York! Tho great advantage of th government administration of telographs, more especially in Englond, whers I have had some oxporience, is that if you are i tho smallest villaze where there is trans- mitted but one messago a day, you puy e actly the samo rate as you would in a iarge city, and the busiuess man has the samo op portunity thero to develop his business that the man has who lives iu a larger centor of population, I presume that the expenses of the business are proportionately larger in a small place than they aro in_a large one. Those of us who run small businesses find that the expenses of business are greate under those circumstances, Does it seem reasonable that tho merchant should be taxed to a much far greater extent than the man living in that smaller town! I think you will find the tendency of all governments is to take control of all matters whero a business is built up and vested intorests acquired, by taking advan- tage, not of any private rights, but of public Tho congress of the United St oms to have recognized that stato of affairs s0faras tho rallwi erned and they have taken control to o greater or les extent, accoraing to the shrewduess ot rail- road ofticials, of rates of transportation and of passenger rates. I cannot see why tho samo control cannot be taken of the tele- graph companics with advantage to the pub- lic at large. Whether that control 15 exer- cised by divoet ownorship or by some sucn control'as we have 1n the easo of tha inter state commorce law —whatever way itis done, Lthink it would cortainly be of advantage o those of us who have'to uso telegraph facilitios for the purpose of running our business. Mr. Foote drew attention to some comparative figures as to telegrapi oftices; but he did not mention thatin a small 000 or 10,000 inhabitants, owing to cies of competition, you will find not only a WeStern Unfon office, but also a Postal ‘oflice, and, a short time ago, a Balti- more & Ohio aflice. Now such a thing is not atall a uecessity; one office could do the businoss just as well as three, ano, therefore, it is not fair to take those comparative ures, In a couutry like the United States, where private owyership is the rulo in tele: grapli business, to compare that with a coun- tey like Great f3rjtain, where you have gov- ernment ownership, and, consequently, the necessity for cbmpetitve oftices removed, the comparison i3 nbt fair. He also made a comparison botween the postofices and the telegraphy gftices. But if ho were acquainted wjth, the English postal sys- tom, and were aware of the fact that a! most at every straet corner you will hnd a postoMce, ido mot think " that have used these figures. It would be ab solntely impracticable aud absolutely un- , I thigk, to have a telegraph ofice wherever there ig.a postoflice. 1 have livea in'Now York a good many years, and 1'Lave often had a great deal of trouble in fluding postofficas. An absolute stranger never finds such troublo ia London. I have no decided views on this subject one way or the other, but T think some of the comparisons Mr. Focto made show some inconsistencies, when you look into the details of the business In the two countries. On che question of the work done by opera- tors in this country and operators in Eng land, I think such of our membors present as are posted on ISuropean telegraph servico fig" will tell you that the atmospheric conditions | have souething to do with that. 1 think itis a question of rapidity of operating; but I am trespassing ou & subject that I am'not at ull posted upon. Mr. Rosewater: The presiding officer of this club has seen fitto pour oil troubled waters here and vour it on_ ver; promiscuously, for the amusement of the au dience; hut I do not think it necessary for me to diseuss tho oil question n counection with postal telegraphy. He said here that I haa brought forth no argument in favor of the postal telegraph, and had not supported my statement with figures sumficient to show whether or not the British and foreign tele- graphs were equal in number to postofiices, whether we wanted a postoflics at every telograph station, and whether we proposed to increase the civil service by an enormous list. Now, I happen to have with me +a few figaves that I made up today from the offcial bools that I bave here, mado up reuily in the German language by the Austrian erumeut, giving a (ull account of all poun postal facilities and telograph oilites, and I find this to be tho fact that in Great Britain the number of postoftices, by the last report of tho postmaster general was 13,350, tue number of telegraph stations 7,627, That is for the year 1580, 1 have a veport with estimates for 1592, They have only 5,012 postal telesraph offices and 1,717 raiirond telegraph offices 1n Gireat Britain, 'rance 15 the only country in Europe probably, and perhaps in theworld, that has more telograph ofticos than vostoflices. S has 7,020 postofices and w43 telexr oftices, of ‘which 6,056 are postal and i aro railvoad, Austrin has 18,017 telograph ofticos, of and b, 15 aro railroad, Germany has tho larzest pogal telograph syste in Ilurope. Sho has® 21,212 post- oftices and 16,408 telograph ofices, of which 12,431 are postal and 3,977 railroad Now, computiug tho whole thing, what do wo se0! In all these four great countries the total number of postoftices is 64,614, and the number of telegraph stations 44339, You notice that thore are neacly two-thirds as many telograph stations as postofces. and notwithstanding statistics 1 woulid venturo to suy that b irely mis taken, unless DrMroen gave wrong fizures to the governmiént last winter, Accord ing to Dr. Gteéh tnero are some 18,600 telegraph stations in America, incluaing all the railroads, dffd ' to the best'of my knowl- edge the number of postoftices is about 40,000 or 61,0007t Now, we have over 60,000 postofices and ‘only 13,600 and some 0dd tele- weraph offices, and ef thess you find thut tne telegraph companies have got less than 5,000, All the telegraph companies have got less than 5,000 telegzaph oftices and the balance are ol railroad, aflices. Now, just compare those countrics gud see what un absurdit This is a strikipg argument, it seews to me, in favor of posfal telgraphy, becauso it onables the peogld in the smallor towns and villages to get thé facilities of the telegranh, and while my frlddd here says that there are only a few clod-héppers out in the west that postoi: which 5 's and 10,506 311 are postal ! with he would | | ograph operator, upou the | aro entirely cut off, it seoms to me that evory citizon of the United States is as good As avory other citizon, and 1t doesn’t matter whether he is on a farm or in a work shop. Tho object of the postal system 1 to faci\ tate the inter-communication of intelly genco. It that had beon estab. lished, no matter what disparaging state. ments have been made hero today as regards 16 mismanagoment of difforant branches of tho goverument, 1 dofy any man here to come forward and show whero there is a better systom under corporate control than the post- offico system of tho United States today. [Applause]. 1 defy— Mr, Sam Bryan (of Washington)—I av- cept that challenge with very great ple ure, I'he Chatrman —Mr. Bryan, wo will give you an opportunity as soon as Mr. Rosewater hias finished, Mr. Rosowator: 1f you can show that tho millions and millions of letters and the vast quantities of nowspapers that are trans- mitted all over the United States for aistances covering somothing like 160,000 miles of rallway, and traversing these rail- ads at evory hour of the day all over tho United States, haudled in every railway wail ear and thrown off by fast mail trains, nandlod ou tho steamships as | have seen right hera—there were 100,000 lotters handled by tho A ncrican postal clerk, who was on the steamsbip and who assorted thom be- tweon Hamourg and New York and placed them in_ packages going all_over the United States, including Omaba if you please, und evory other town. [ say that the postal system of the United States is admirably managod, whother Mr. \Wanamaker mons- ures his lettors by the yard or weighs them vy the pound. I have “uot been paid by the postofico department and have not been authorized to speak for it, but I wiil say for Mr. Wanamaker, and [ have been acquainted with every postmaster goneral from the days of Croswall down to today, that ho 15 tho most efticient man in the dopartment and has more business in hin than any otaer man that was ever in it. Mr. Foote has eallod me to task here about & ‘question, and it is a very serious oue, in his opinion at loast, as to what the value was of tho telegraph lines turued over.to the vari- mpanies by the government after the It is truo that I charged at Washing st winter, before the congrossional com- mittee, that after the war, without any com- pensation whatever, 15,000 miles of wire aud somothing like 160 or 200 miles of cablo and all the instruments and machinery and all the appliances that had been usod in th itary telegraph service, were turned oy tho companies without a dollar, und 1 havo the audacity to say that they were worth about £2,000,000. Well, I meant 52,000,000 at the timo they were turned over, when gold was worth avout 180 cents and ' evervthing was proportionately high, But, after all, it very remarkable that tho gentlemen stould voituro to tho defense of this peculir transaction. It was certainly a trans- action that requires oxplanation. It was a transaction that 1 uever have beon able to oxplnin to myself. When I went to investigate it in the quartermastor general’s oftico, 1 thought that tho wovern- ment had sold out those things, as I stated theu, as otd junk, at 5o much a pound for the wire' and so much per cord for the poles, But, asa matter of fact, the government actually turned itallover for nothing at ¢ mstance of tho genilemen who wore managing the telegraph companies, Now wo have becn given here a promiscuous line of figurcs. 1 do not think it 13 necossary for mo to vepeat the telegraph tariffs avroaa. g0 before tha congressional ttee. probably this winter some tine, 1f L appear before that committee, some of these figures might perhaps be more apor ciated than they would be right here tonight. But I just want to call attention to a few lit- tle items. Ko instance, in 1830, the West- ern Union had a_capital and a dobt of $46,- 000,000, and now it has just $98,250,000. The cousolidations that_ have taken place in ten years have almost duplicated tne eutite capi- tal and debt. Mr. S. Bryan of Washington, spoke at length of the defects i our postal system, claiming that it was the worst in the worl the exception of a few of the Latiu A lettor posted at Twenty-tnird at 7 p. m, would nov roach Washington and b dehvered until 1 o'clock tho next day. Mr. Bryan also fa- vored Sunday delivory. He said tho tele- graph secvico of England and France was not near o prompt as with us, Mr. 3. A. Leslie spoke of his acquaintance with Mr. Rosewater, and stated that under- Iying all of Mr. Rosewator's arguments for a postal telegraph was the welfare of tho tel- After tendering o vote of thanks to Mr. Rosewater, Chaivman Wiman declared the meeting adjourned. Mr. Foote has been at great pains to point out the exorbitant rates charged for dis- patches from London to places in Siveria, Swoden and Noaway, but 1f he had taken dawn his teloscope and looked a little noarer homo he might have discovered some exces- sive charges that canuot bo palliated or ex- plained away. For instance, every steam- ship coming into New York vasses” by Iire isiand. A ton-word messnge annour.cing the avrival of the steamer s cuarged £1 and for overy duplicate of this message delivered in the city of New York only thirty-five miles distant, £1 is charged. And the steamship companies are forbiddon to post announce: ments of arrival of their steamers ov to_sup- ply_their patrons with tho ncws. Would such an autocratic_thing bo submitted to in any placa in Kuropo or Asial The teléerams are the property of the peoplo who pay for them. The telegraph company is simply a public carrier, just as the express companies are of lotters and packages. “The opponents of postal telegraph cannot couceive a moro gluring abuse of power than is constantly oxercised by the managers of telegraph companies and for me, [ should prefer to trust the control of the talagraph in tho hands of the men who are hold respon- sible by the people for the trust roposed in them, than to the men who recognize no re- sponsibility excopting to the capitalists who operate telegraphs for the profit there is in them. [Applause, | countries. street, Now York, ‘Phey had lots of wedding presents, but the most vrocious wus a box of Haller's Aus- tralian salve. She said thoughtfully, it's so nice for the little chaps ou my hands. He said, we haven,t got any “little chaps’ yet. She said, Why ! John, and John was squelcped. - Dr. Cullimore, oculist, Bee building. e A Pathede Appeal, Somebody has been refusing to pny Brother Phaxton of the Jackson (Ga.) Argus for a pufl, for this is the way he is putting it now: A doctor will sit down and write seriptions time five minutes; paj and ink, § of a cent; and the patic pays $1, $5, $10, as the case may be, Inwyer writes ten or twelve lines and gots from $10 to $50 from his client. An editor writes a half column puff for a man, pays & man 50 cents or $1 for put- ting it in type, prints it on 37 worth of paper, sends it to soveral thousand peo- ple and surprises the puffed man if he makes any char ) pr Dr. Birney cures caturrh. Bee bdig. - Millions in It The population of China is now esti- mated at 850,000,000, which is almost equul to the entire poputation of Europe. The Chinese national debt 1s one of the smadlest, amounting to only $38,500,000, el Il Queon Victoria's private secretary HeunryPousonby, has a modest littio salary of $10,000 und holse rent frec. $ Van HouTen's Gocoa. " PLEASE READ THIS. OO Cents a pound for VAN HOUTEN'S GOCOA (“Best & Goes Farthest”) seems to be high. 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