The New York Herald Newspaper, December 22, 1875, Page 5

Gn cag Public Opinion on the Order of American Union. Effect on the Public by the Herald’s Expose. ITS ACCURACY CONFIRMED. What Members of the “Order” Have to Say. “IT IS A POWERFUL BODY.” “Tts Work is Far from Be- ing Ended.” “PUT AN END TO CATHOLICS.” Defiance and Bitterness Displayed by the Brethren. ~ ‘The full exposé of the secrets of the “0, A. U.,”? pub- lished tn yesterday’s Heap, hag naturally created much consternatfon in the ranks of the “brethren” in the Order. Everywhere yesterday the subject was the Jeading topic of conversation, Thousands.of conserva- tive Protestants to whom the existence of the Order ‘was before unknown and undreamt of read with aston- wshment tho voluminous constitution, bylaws and forms of proceeding as laid down for the organtzation. Thus realizing its dangerous tendency toward the sub- version of the fundamental principles of our govern- ment, this class of citizens unhesitating!y denounced the Order, The feeling among Catholics was one of sorrow ag well as surprise and indignation. The mem- ories of the days of the old Know Nothing party came back with full force, and the feeling of sectarian hatred 80 universal in those days was remembered. @BThose fair minded peopio who hola to no particular belief, but rather adhere to the general doctrines of Christianity, and unite with either sect in all proper efforts to uphold treedom of religious belief in the United States, denounced the ‘0. A. U.”? In all quarters the course of the Henao in its strenu- ous efforts to thwart the objects of the organization was highly commended. The members of the Order were alone in their denunciation of the exposé, but they could not deny its accuracy. Some of them, while admitting that Speaker Blaine was a brother, asseried that Presi- dent Grant was not connected with the Order, but boldly claimed that'he was in full sympathy with its objects. A HxRra.y reporter yesterday morning met A PROMINENT REPUBLICAN POLITICIAN, whose name is well known in New York, who sald, as he pointed to the Heraup which he held in his hand;— “I will say one thing which the Henacp did not men- tion in this exposé, and that is with relation to the num- bers belonging to the Order. The Hxraup has not an adequate conception of its magnitude, Yesterday I of course would not have spoken about the subject except toa brother member, for 1 have been connected with the Order since its origin; but to-day the Hunap has Jaid bare all the secrets and it is no use concealing anything. What action the Senate of the Order will take now I cannot say, but i predict that we will have an entirely new deal,”” ‘ou spoke about the magnitude of tne Order just now,” said the reporter, ‘can you give me an idea of your strength in numbers?” “Well, I will say this much, and on it you may rely. In the single State of Ohio we have 45,000 members. ‘Now you can draw your own inferences from that. It is a powerful body, and notwithstanding the efforts of the Henaup its work is far from being ended.”” THE THIRD TERM. “Tg not the main object of the Order the re-election of General Grant to athird term?” “That I will not say. Its objects are the exclusion in every instance of Roman Catholics from all places of trustand power in both local and national govern- ments, They have too long prostituted our govern- ment to sectarian purposes and now we propose to put an end to them. We are not only powertal—powerful jn numbers, but powerful and earnest in our determina- tion and our work will be felt far and near in the com. ing Presidential campaign. Weare a secret body be- cause experience has taught us that success can only be accomplished by secrecy. Look out for breakers |’” ‘Tho politician on repeating the nautical phrase ‘ook out for breakers”’ took his departure. His sentiments were but the echo of those expressed by all found yesterday belonging to the “0. A. U.”” Although the thousands of members in New York when they opened the Henao yesterday morning were dumbfounded at the revelations they saw therein, they were even more awestricken at reading the account of the proceedings of Counci! No. 2 as witnessed by a Heraup reporter. How he could have escaped detection, even possessed of a knowledge of the grips and passwords, was a mystery not easily fathomed, and Council No. 2came in for a hearty share of abuse for their misfortune. PROCEEDINGS IN COUNCIL. 3 The account published yesterday was necessarily Drief, owing to the lateness of the hour at which the session ended, Therefore, it is herewith submitted in detail. Bunker Hill Council, No. 2 from what could be learned, is one of the most important of the councils in New Yorn. From it many of those now in operation in this city sprang into existence, and its roll of mom- bers comprises many names well khown throughout the State, The headquarters were formerly at tho corner of Eighteenth street and Third avenue, and there meetings were held once a morth. A few months &g0, more spacious accommodations becoming neces- sary, it was determined to lease the first floor of No. 1 Livingston place, corner of Fifteenth street, The meet- ing last night was the second held since the change, an interregnum of one or two meetings having taken place, owing to the unavoidable absence from the city of some of the more prominent officers, The building No, 1 Livingston place is a four story brown stone front dwelling house, the upper part of whith is occupled by the Eclectic College of Surgery, the basement by the janitor’s family, and the first floor, consisting of a front and back parlor, is used by tho Council. A diagram of the premises, showing the location of the house and the apartments occupied by the Council, together with the relative positions occupied by tho officers when the body ts {n session, is given on this page. The entrance, it will be seen by referring to tne dia- gtam, is on Livingston place, which boands Stayvesant Park on the east, Ascending the stone steps the visitor passes through an outer and inner door before reaching the hall. About six feet from the entrance are the stairs leading up to the rooms occupied by the Eclectic College. A few feet from the inner door, to the lett, ts the door leading to the counell room. On entering the council room, after giving the password, “Glad!” to the outer sentinel, the first object one sees is the platform, which extends along the head of the room from wall to wall, being elevated about two feet from the floor and about six feet in width, In front of the platform is a table, apon which is a Bible and the charter granted the council by the Supreme Senate, It ia usually cov- ered with the national flag. On either side of the President's table on the platform are two others, the one t the right occupied by the Secretary and the one on the left by the Chaplain. When the body went into session on Monday nignt two sentinels Were placed on duty, one at the door in- wide the room and the other outsida The Marshal xt directly (cing the president, in the middie of tho room, The brethren occupied ebairs ranged in rows from wall to wall, the Great row being from twelvo to Steen feet from the edge ofthe platform. The floor was uncarpeted anc the walls entirely devoid of orna- are many members NEW YORK HERALD, WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 22, 1875.—TRIPLE SHKET. ment, A large chandelier in the middle of the room and a few-side barners furnished the light. ‘The windows were securely screened wifti blinds and & person on the street could not tell by looking at them that the room was lighted or not as no glimmer of light penetrated to the outside. ‘The Hxnaup reporter reached the house shortly be- fore eight o’clock. Opening the door of the council room he saw six or eight gentlemen chatting socially together, Sitting near the door was acolored man, and to him the reporter addressed bis conversation, taking ‘seat beside him, Soon he learned that the colored man wasa member of the order. To convince him that he was conversing to a brother the reporter whis- pered the talisman “Gladstone,” that being the complete password, began the process of in- terviewing. The colored brother was pliable, and in a few minutes had expressed himself al considerable length, He was bitterly op, to Cath- olics on general principles. ‘The principal of the school where his children attended was a Catholic, and the speakerjhated him, ‘Talk about the Bible in the public schoois,”’ said the colored man, “I tell you, sir, before we say anything about the Bible we want to clean out every Catholic school teacher and every Catholic office- holder in the United States.” Anotber member now approached the reporter, and learning that he was from’ Council, No. 1, said “¢ then you will want some of the tickets, will you not?” “Certainly,” answered the reporter, wondering what the tickets were, as the brother thrust into his hand @ bundle of 150 printed cards, of which the following is a copy: i THE BIBLE IN OUR ecune. t SCHOOLS, 3} A PUBLIC MEETING OF THE FRIENDS OF THE BIBLE AND OUR COMMON SCHOOLS ‘WILL BS HELD IN THE 3 j NOBTH BAPTIST CHURCH, j corner Christopher and Bedford streets, po neoees. Thursday, December 23, 1875, at 7:30 P. M. EMINENT SPEAKERS WILL ADDRESS THR MERTING. ADMIT BEARER AND FRIENDS, AON OO NEE NOONAN EE AOL. These were to be distributed where they would do “the most good,” and it is evident that this is the way the Order secks to further its ends, Several other persons then entered the room, and after some delay the president of the council took bis GETTING TO woRK. The first business was to direct the Marshal, a Mr. Robingon, to see that none but members wore present, ‘That officer immediately left his seat and began his task. The president was first approached, A shake of the hand and a whisper and the Marshal passed on, joing through th with every person present ‘hen the > reporter was reached, he knowing the password and the ip, fh hy both, and the Mar- shal, not suspecting his tity, passed on to the next, Afterthe Marshal had announced in due form that every person present was a “member,” the president formally opened the council by appoint- ing the sentinels, The Seoretary, a Mr. Foster, then roceeded to read the minutes of the previous meeting. ile this was goi on the reporter, who sat in the corner of the room, making arrangements about taking such notes a8 were necessary, This was no easy task, as the slightest movement might betray him, Taking from his pocket a number of cards the writer placed them in bis hat, and with a small piece o/ pen- cil commenced his task. Near by sat a member who every now and then, as {f suspicious of the reporter, glanced at him with a searching eye. To write under this surveillance was difficult, but the ‘ter man- aged to scrateh dor sometimes on his cufls and some- times on the cards in the lining of his hat, the names of such persons as were mentioned. As if to render the reporter's position even more critical, Mr. Gibbs, the of Council No. 1, with whom the reporter had been to converse while representing himself as @ member of that council, sat inthe rear, In a word, the reer was on the ‘‘rag- ged edge” from the moment of his entry until his de- parture. When the President announced that the altar would now be prepared there was a bustle among the members jn anticipation of the impressive {nitiaion ceremonies to take place, but the Chaplain, Mr. Buck- ingham, brought matters down to prosy routine by rising and stating that # the present session no per- sons were to be hi “Then,” guid the President, striking the table with hia gavel, “we will proceed with the next business. Are there are apy committees to report?” No answer coming, the President said, “Mr. Seore- sy, what unfinished business is there’? ¢ Secrotary replied that he knew of none. At this juncture a peculiar rap (consisting of three knocks, the last two being separated from the first by an intel of a second) was heard at the door, and the inside sentinel opened it about an inch and immediately announced, ‘The Vice President of the council awaits outside.” “Let him enter,’ nded the President, and the door was opened ently to admit a tall, elderly man, who mildly walked 10, and, without tormality, took a seat on the lef¥or the room. te had hardly sat ‘down when another loud rap from the President’s gavel called attention. ‘Mr. Vice President,” said that oficial, ‘1 must in- sist that every brother who enters this coun- comply with the formalities. eyes were turned foward the Vice Presi- as . - : finger to the tip of bis Dose. moved drew it across toward the right ear and let bis hand fal by his sido, This is the customary salate of all ‘*broth- ors, “We will now proceed to the consideration of new business,” said the President, rapping the table. ‘The Chaplain, Mr. Buckingham, then arose and said that with relation te the communication from the Leg- islature of the State, read by the Secretary, announcing that Bunker Hill Council, No. 2, wus indebted in the sum of $5°20, he hoped that members in arrears would pay up. The speaker set a good example by walking to the Secretary's table and handing over u fifty cent stamp. Other members soon foliowed and the amount was speedily collected. Mr. Buckingham next moved that hereafter the sessions of the council be held on the third Wednesday of every month. In support of his motion he said that the present winter was & severe one, and every effort shouid be made to economize. He saw no necessity for bringing members together more than once @ month. The resources of the council should be hus- banded. It had been urged by some brothers that meetings be held once a week, but he was not at the presevt time in favor of that. He was heartily in favor of holding meetings as often as was necessary, but he was opposed to unnecessary sessions. Mr. Douglas, who is employed in some capacity in the Custom House and who was at one time President of the council, then arose and replied to Brother Buck- ingham. He exceedingly regretted to see any move- ment tending to abridge the interest felt in the ‘‘cause”” by members. Meetings should be held at least twice a month, Ho wasin favor of holding them weekly. Every brother knew that the work of the “Order” dur. ing the coming Presidential campaign was a stupendous one, The cause of the Order was a most noble one, For his part he was willing to come to the council rooms every night, if his presence could help the ‘“‘cause.”? ‘After some further remarks Mr. Buckingham with- drew bis motion and a motion that after the Ist of Jan- uary, 1876, the meetings of the council be held every bein and fourth Wednesday in each month was car- rie The President then rose, and said that he saw with pleasure some new faces present, He saw his esteemed rother from Council No, 8, and he beheld with grati- fication his worthy brother from Council No. 6 He wus also extremely glad to see present the brother from the Fourth Council, bat he made no reference to the ‘‘new”’ (?) member from Council No. L Matters were now beginning to assume a rather delicate shape for the Hera.p reporter. Finding that the regular order of business was ex- hausted, the reporter thought it best to avoia any further conversation with members after adjournment, 80, advancing toward the President's table, he gave the salute of the Order, then to the various officers on the platform, after which he asked the President leave to withdraw, Permission to retire was given and the reporter passed the sentinel, and in a moment was outside the Jurisdiction of the council. INTERVIEWS WITH THE LEADERS. ‘THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE. Last evening a reporter of the Hxnatp called at tho residence of the President of the Senate of 0, A. U.'s, Mr. George D. Weeks, whose name was emblazoned be- fore tho world in theso columns of yesterday, Mr. Weeks lives at No, 158 Washington avenue He is about thirty-eight years age, For many years past, since the termination of the war, he bas been promin- ent in republican local politics, and few men are bettor known In the vicinity of the City Hall than “Georgio Weoks,” as the politicians familiarly call him. Upto last May Mr, Weeks occupied the position of Superin- tendent of the Supply Department of the City Works, He said, referring to the article published in tne Heratv:—"There is much in it that 1s true and a great deal that is devoid of truth; but I would rather not at this {ancture enter upon any statement for publication. I will, however, say thig upon my own responsibility and from my personal knowledge as an officer of the Order, that neither President Grant, Speaker Blaine nor Mr. Jewett are members of the Order, nor aro there any members ofthe Cabinet of the United States con- nected with our soclety.’? “Could they not be members without your knowledge of the fact?” “No, sir; whenever persons are initiated outside the Order, they are called members at large. There are only four oF five officers in the United States who have the power to initiate outside members, that is those who are admitted away from the lodge. These officers are bound to notify the officers at headquarters im- mediately of their action. Now, I will say that we have not the names of either of these persons on our records. Deputy Edgar, who is accredited with the initiation of Genoral Grant, is out in a card to-night in one of the New York evening papers, denying the assertion, I know that Special Deputy Cowles was not sent to Washington last week to initiate Speaker Blaine, If he did go there 1+ was on his own responsi- bility and not by any order of the organization. The HeRaLD exposé of course, came, indirectly from not one who was a member. We are frightened in the least degree, however, and th those who will not Ca me the publication, 0 have ere been for some time past agitating the propriety of doing iy with secrecy en- tirely and coming out boldly, The society. as has been very well known, baa been in existence Tor some time and it has asserted a strong influence.” “Ts 14 not strongly anti-Catholic in its tenets 9” “That te whorp thy Hamano makos o xrcat mistake, ‘Weare Tasmure more anti-Catholic than 2s pens a) to pits ang “Methodists, Dutch Baptista or any Protestant denomination. We deny that this ‘tion has bp J to do with # man’s religious lef, We have simply to do with political questions. We are opposed to the appro- priation cf public money for any sect, .or for the purposes of any religious institutions whatsoever. I myself am s warm advocate of the taxation of all church property. For instance, I don’t see why they should take taxes off the Simpson Methodist church, which I attend, and put it on my house, I would much rather, as a member of that congregation, pay more pew rent. The Order recognizes no sect in 448 opposition to the appropriation of public money. We are opposed to any division of the Public School Fond to satisfy any class of people. They say we are anti-Catholic for the reason that many of the leading men of that Church have taken ition against the public schools, and have sought a division of that fund. Against such we have taken position. It is true that this opposition will come « little harder upon the Catholics al this time than, perhaps, upon other churches.” “Do 7ou receive pecuniary aid from the govern- ment?” “I will state emphatically that we have never re- ceived $1 from the government nor from any politica, committee or Se nor do we ever expect & receive a dollar from any such source, Al! that pu! by! Yaies had any influence on the Iste elections in the city of New York ? Mr. Horr—1 do. In some districts especially, where the association was properly organized, it mi itself felt, GEORGE P. EDGAR. Mr, George P. Edgar, book agent, at No. 83 Park row, and national Deputy of the organization, was next in- terviewed, As Soon as the reporter stated his business, Mr. Edgar answered by saying, ‘Offer your questions and I will answer them,” Reronren—Are you a member of the organization called the “0. & U.,” and are you one of its de- fend s? M , Evgarn—I will not say that I am or am not me ,'er of that association, but with the princi} Nes la gylown and enunciated by that organization I am ‘tin sympathy, 1 can tell you one thing, and that * Gat there is not one organization, but many organiza- « ¢5 that mean work on this thing. The American ‘on stant Association, the riotic Sons of America A4% the United Order of American Mechanics are all mais \cRuporreR—Is the Common Schoo! League in affilia- ion with the Order of American Union? . Mr. Epcax—I do not belong to the Common School lished about nbacks from Washington is all in ~: g League, but I believe some of their sympathies aro akin eye. When I make a statement I want to be ab! ,, | * to ours, (Here Mr. Edgar admitted his membership in stand to it, and I am talking now without consu’ the 0. A Gy When the American people meet at the with my brother officers, so that you will exe ‘arst for not going fully into the details of the matte » ’ I sce what has been said then I propose © stone/ Say, and not till then. Now you have got a’ ” “f ALD office the secret work of the Order, and/ 02 Whot find in it the word “Romish,” ‘Roman <1 08 “Protestant” I say it is not in the Wor, stop, When it appears in the published form it has be*~ lously written in. Much of the article is truer. OUF WFas deal, as I said pefere, is not aa The + 5 im dolyaot live whose religion makes any differenc “But how do you suppose the “ftifleatey nog of the interior workings of such 4 can’ttell id gocrot Onder?” A park, ab mn, Through the treachery of @ an 1 had the #0!d It to “ But wouldn’t that membe:Pald him aboriown tf he was at tho lodge last night?” whether I pa “No, be was not at the} the Troy Ci initiated the Hxnaxp men who were Beresitionsoe sBrotagy: thou ht he saw two suspicious looki ; C@ tomers last night They were, unquestionab! ‘ters, ?? In conclusion President Weeks said that there would soon be a meeting of the ‘edger! at which action would be taken in the premises. 6 could not refrain, he said, from expressing his gratitude to the brother mem- ber who bad written of him as a ‘shrewd and not over- scrupulous politician. * VICE PRESIDENT LEWSEN. ‘This gentleman, who is Vice President of Columbia Council, No. 18, was found at the Cooper Institute post office, where he is employed. When interrogated polls next election the foreign element will understand what it means, P MAJOR PANGBORN. Major Pangborn, editor of the Jersey City Evening Journal, was found at home yesterday afternoon at his residence, No, 153 Varick street, Jorsey City. The Major is a gentleman of forty-five or forty-eight years of age. He is slim tn figure, rather under than over the medium height, has » well-developed forehead, sharp, penetrating, dark gray eyes, and wears a full beard. He Is an old journalist of many years’ experi- ence, Atthe time of receiving the call Major Pang- born was engaged in the delightful occupation of watch- Ing his oldest son at play with his toys, Major Pangborn’s attention having been drawn to the Hxrauo article on the “0. A. U.,”' gaid:— “1 baye been much amused by the press comments which Foster's letter drew forth. It could not have been a very wise thing om the author's part to publish orconsent to the publication of such a communica tion.” ‘Well, Major; but what about the ‘0, A U.’?”” “Oh, it ia nob as the heading of the article says! Grant does not belong to it, so far as I can learn. I think this 1s all stuff, a grain of truth amid a bushel of falsehoods, ** é “But I seo that you, Major, belong to the organiza jon. as to the alm and object of the Order of the American Union, he said that so far as he knew {ts main purpose ‘was to secure the retention of the Bible in the public schoola Members of the organization, ho said, dif- “There are two organizations of the nature attributed tothe 0. A. U., and it is hard to say which of them ts referred to in this articla Both organizations are of recent birth, and both originated from the same cause—that ‘ia, the public school question Both IN SECRET SESSION. Diagram of Lodge Room of No. 1 Livin, 7 ‘Rear Ro ce) (e} Seats for Members fe) Le) fe) ie) ie) Herala Reporter. ‘Vice President, ede Marshal, fe) Tuner Sentinel. BIBLE. Chaplain, Prosident, Becretary. O [Te Bunker Hill Council No. 2, gston place. oO L:ntraie te Oaliogs. ie) T O Outer Sentinel, Outer Hall fol =] Lie = hg its 5 Sager atte H | Livingston Place. fered very much on tnis subject. Some thought that if the Bible were removed once for alltrom the schools, this social and religious problem would be saved’ “and with it all chance in the fature of ‘any. re- ligious animosities or vexations all over the country. He did not think so, however. It was his belief that this question of the Bible was only the very beginning of what would be demanaed by the Church of Rome, and he therefore believed that this first attempt at en- croachment should be met and defeated, On being shown the Heratp account of the oath and charge belonging to the initiation of members into the Order, he said that both were incorrect. Everythin, stated in the oath and in the charge which plea Aecy opposition to the Catholic Church and to Catholics, ex- cept in so far as the retention of the Bible in the schools was concerned, was all wrong and not contained in the formula of initiation administered to new members, HENRY J. HOLT, A Henatp reporter calledon Mr Henry J. Holt, a practical printer, doing business at No, 87 Nassaa street, Mr, Holt resides in Elizabeth, N. J., and is the President or “Speaker” of the New Jersey Legislature of “0. A. U.,’? and also Secretary of tho Senate, Tho printed matter issued by and concerning the Order Is prepared by Mr. Holt As soon as the reporter stated his mission Mr. Holt said;— “Tell me in brief what you want to know and I will answer you,” Rerorter—Mr. Holt, I presume you have read the exposé of a secret organization called the Ordor of American Union in td-day’s Herat? Mr. Hour—Yos, sir; Ihave read it, and I think that the Rov. Oscar Hugo, a Hugarian ro! has given the whole thing away. Part of what is in the Herarp is correct, and @ great part of is ts incorrect, The preamble to the constitutioa of the Senate fs correct, and I.indorse every word of it As far as supporting General Grant for the third term tho organization, as a body, bas not declared itself, 1 do not bh ge Grant individually, and there are many others like me. I must say, howover, that I indorse the speech made by him at Des Moines, lowa, and so do many others connected with the organization, Personally, 1 am opposed to Grant, bat if the Catholio influnce is too strong | suppose we will have to take up Grant, Rerorter—Is the Order of United American Me- chanics, in sympathy with this “Order of American nion, Mr, Hout—The Order of United American Mechanics isa purely benevolent organization, There are some Catholics in it, I believe, but such t@ the focling they could never be raised to any office, Reportsa—What do you think of the exposéin the Heratp. Mr. Hort—I look upon it as a splendid advertise ment The fact of the matter is, nineteen out of twenty American born citizens, who are non-Catholica, would —_ the association as soon ag they knew it was in ex istence. Rerorter—Then you indorse the movement? Mr. Hout—I do, because 1 believe the Influence of Romanism should be put down. It {s s pernicions tn stitution and must be equelched. However, this Anti- Catholic movement has Legs to do with Grant Thore aro many Democrats and Liberal Republicans belonging to the organization, One thi how. ever, 1 will say. Tho organization fully in- dorses Grant 8 a Towa, Ru#PoRTsR. ve you any solid reason, Mr. Holt, for believing that the Rev. Oscar Hugo gave {nformation to the Heraup? Mr, Hour—I know that there was only one copy of a certain document which was printed in the Hwaatp to- day, and I know that that was stolen by the Rev. Oscar iz o, and he is now in Burope, 80 much the better ye him. Rerogren—Do you think the Order of American have the same alms and objects in view, tor both are intended to defend and uphold in their integrity the present American general system of public education. §§ The two organization: just alike, and, as I understand, one of them was organized in Ohio, while the other came into existence in the Eastern States, I don’t know if they are now working together as a single body. Perhaps they are.” Pie ee and aims of them are, I suppose, familiar ou “The name of one of the organizations I don’t know, and ifI did know the other it would be out of my power to tell you what it im The aim and object of’the societies have already been touched upon, They organized on an entirely unsectarian basis, and bave been created solely for the purpose of defending the ey, of our present admirable public school system. “Yes, but what about the support which {tis said Grant is to have for @ third term of office from the 0. A. U.P” “The organization has nothing whatever to do with the third term agitation. 1 was in Washington all last week and saw Mr. Blaine, who says that the entire matter is all Greek to him; and I don’t beliove that either he or Grant are members of either of the socie- ties now indicated. I don’t know of any meeting con- cerntng these societies having taken in the 8 Nicho Hotel, New York Indeed, my health and circumstances kaye of la such ot admit of my Tong on a ach hin K rate I don’t. know anything of a body in to-day’s Hera.v’s article is designated as the National Council. I never heard of money ing been obtained as here all ram I aware t the guns’ and employés of the Custom House afo active members of any such fraternity as that now de- scribed, Neither Foster's letters nor his interviews with members of the press prove anything, for it is clear that he bas thrown no new light on tho subject of this so-called Q, A. U., and that if he is a member of such an organization ft would be out of bis power to reveal any of {ts secrets, I am, and hi been for more than twenty years, a momber of the United Ord f American Mechanics, but this Is not a secret everybody knows when and: where ite meetings an held. Peoplo of all creeds, Inoiuding Roman Catholics, belong to it, and the brotherhood is non-political in every (=n being in no way compromised support any political party.” “Are you prepared, Major, to say anything hee geod yea? en us which led tw the organization of the ‘by, as far as I know, their existence must be at- tributed to the avowed hostility of Bishop McQuade, Father Walker, of the Roman Cathelic church, and othor leading Catholics, against the public echools’ On several occasions, in his Lag the tee Tin Sod and letters at Syracuse, New Orleans and elsewhere, Bishop Mo- Kovrage ae Cent % the determined o ponent jor jools, and hoj that he might live long enough to seo 5 leutfoyes The expression of such tlliberal sentiments as coupled with the tanatical discourses of Father Walker, tho ‘threatening action of the Catholic Union and such Nike signs of the coming storm, rendered some counteract- ing Agency an absolute necessity,” “The Catholics think that King James’ Bible should not be read tn the public schools to the exclusion of other editions of the Scriptures, What would you reply to this pomt?’ “I would treat the Bible tn the public schools as-tf it wore the work of Shakespeare or any other celebrated author, It ought not to be either especially Incladed or particularly excluded from the. schools, Those whi desire to read the Bibie there should have the pri lege of doing so, and those who don’t want to read tt ought not to bo compelled to use the book, Catholics should have the rignv (which undoubtedly they possess) of taking ir ges. Bibiés wo the schools and reading them ere, Protestants ought al be conceded an equal privilege with Fe. speck to their particular vorsion of the Scriptures, If Iiosrty of adopting rule for tbe» pore aking opting a rule for the purpose of making tt obligatory on sch © participate Bible reading & as opinions, or pealm sin; ‘trary to their reli outa be, af she minute be at sana books of the Board. Perhaps the x 10 get rid of the whole matter is to say nothing at all about the Bible in the public schools; neither legislate it in nor exclude it from them,"? “Then you think that the two organizations whose existence you have indicated are unsectarian and not directed against the Catholics?” Ido, Let us see: here is the plank Io their plat- pe which I am willing to stand by :— “We oppose « division of the school fund for any sectarian Purposes whatever, Gn a word, we aro pledged 1) maintain if our republican form of goveru: ; iste our ated nat hasan satay Rinition ‘to defend themselves eguinst the aggrossions ‘the clause directed against Romanism has been added without authority to the original article, There is but one way in which a cage of constructive oppost tion to Romanism can be made out against the socl- eties. It is that the.Catholics more than any other de- nomination bave shown themselves opposed to the pub- lic schools, and hence they possibly imagine that these new societies are directed particularly against them, whilo jt must be conceded that the attitude of Bisho: MoQuade and others has done much to agitate men’s minds on this important matter and to fill the ranks of the new associations. I know Mr Edgar, and beliove that if Grant had been initiated ag stated, t would have known about it. Edgar never referred to the matter in his conversations with me, and 1 am enough in tho society to know the fact if there wag any truth im the report of Grant’s supposed initiation. 1 cannot tell if the heading of the article \s the right name of tho association to which it is supposed to refer; I don’t know the right title of the organization, and would not give the names if they were known to me. Roman Catholic intrigues on the schoo! ques- tiun brought on the battle two years ago, and it was fought out in the last session of our State Legislature, During the session belore last the friends of the Catholic Union wanted to pass what was called the Catholic Protectory bill. By the provisions of the pro- jected enactment any magistrate or justice of the peace was empower to take up any child that might be found on the gon] whether it might be @ vagrant or not, and han it over to the tender mercies of the Catholic Protectory, and this institution would then have jurisdiction over that child’s person tn the same man- ner as if it belonged ts the Catholic Church, whether it did or not. The bill was taken up—and very impra- dently, too—by the democrats, who made ita party measure, It passed the House, but was killed in the Senate, The next (last) session, when the bill was brought up again, it was defeated’ in both branches of the Legislature, and, as a result of the effect upon thy publiq mind, the republicans, who opposed the bill, n only retained their superiority in the Senate, but ac- sre control of the House of Representatives, the lemocrats losing their majority of nineteen and the re- ' publicans gaining a controlling vote of seventeen. This result speaks volumes of the effect which the Catholic agitation against the public Schoqis has brought forth.” “Youare credited with being a member of the Senate of the 0. A. U. Do you desire that this report should be confirmed or contradicted ??” “Thus far the Order has not been able to command my servicos, but I don’t know how soon it may. Pri- vato and domestic considerations have for a time intervened to prevent my working with the go- ciety, And even if I were in the traces I would only go so far with the organization as my con- science could safely carry me, no farther, All the talk about a third term for Grant has nothing in it He don’t want a third term, The circumstances of the country are not such as would justify bis asking it, and if ho did the people would not grant (Grant) it. Foster might say that the President does want a third term, but such isreally not the case. I sympathize fully with that part of the President’s last message which ro- fers to the school question. His views are just and right They are neither relig- jous nor sectarian, but, on the contrary, very non-committal and genuinely unsectarian. Another thing, I believe with Grant—or without him if you hke—that all property, mcluding every descrip- tion of church property, should be taxed.” “Do you recognize the travelling card which ts shown in the cut accompanying the article ”” “I don’t recognize the travelling card atall. I never had one myself. Never «saw one before, The Catholic Union of Jersey City is as secret a society as either of those alluded toin the Herat of to-day, Last year I Baw a circular of that union tm which the members avowed their intentions to do all in their power for the purpose of procuring @ pro rata denominational divi- sion of the echool funds BEV. DR. EDDY, Rey. Dr. Eddy, pastor of the First Union church of Jersey City, received a call yesterday at his residence, ‘m Third street, from a Heranp reporter. Tho object of this visit was to ascertain the reverend gentleman's views on the recently discovered secret order of 0. A. U. Dr. Eddy was found to be @ man of commanding Presence, he being an elderly gentleman of over six feet in height, a splendid specimen of American man- hood, possessing a fine brown eye, marked features, and wearing his abundant crop of white hair rather long and having his beard closely shaven. “I'm in @ great burry just now—reading for the last time my lecture Which will be delivered in Kahway to- night—so that I cannot say much about the society named in the Huratp this morning. “Do you know anything of the society ?”” “I won't say anything Just now. As far as my opin- jon goes this is asham; but | nad rather not enter into Lane J Just at present. Som@other time will do as wel “Do you recognize the visiting card?” “No, I don’t reco; the card, Ihave never eon ence of such @ “Then I may state that you don"t belong to such an Organization as that spoken of in the Heraid?’? “T may belong to two or three or many secret socie- ties, but that does not matter at Ta Mr. Eddy upon bemg informed that Major Pangboor had been interviewed on the subject, hastily exclaimed with evident interest:— “Oh, indeed! What did the Major say?” 7. FERGUSON. Mr. J. Ferguson, a broker at No. 41 Pine street, who was said to be connected with Park Council, No 19, meeting every Wednesday evening at Forty-ninth street and Eighth avenue, was next called upon, Mr, Ferguson is a gentleman about fifty-five years of age, and by appearances seems to suffer a great deal from gout or chronic rheumatism, Ho sald he had read the article tn the Heraxp on the "0. A. UY,” but did not be- jong to the organization, He was a member of the Order of United American Mechanics for twenty-Ove years, and was one of its first officers, Reportse—Mr. Ferguson, are you not in sympathy with this organization t Mr. F&kGUSON—A newspaper bas got nothing to do with my sympathies; but as I said before | was a mem- ber of Order of United American Mechanics twenty- five years ago. I don’t believe in this third term busi- ness. I did not vote for Lincoln and I voted for sey- mour, bat it was a pretty tough dose I am an old line whig. My father was a Presbyterian, and as far as ro- ligion 1s concerned [ am too; but I don’t believe in Grant. He is @ man I cannot put any faith in, THE OBDER IN OTHER CITIES. A PROMINENT GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL AT AL- BANY PROFESSES IGNORANCE OF THE SECRET ORDER, AuBaxy, Dec, 21, 1875, A prominent government official here, the recognized leader of the republican party, who is certain to be fally informed on the subject, on being interviewed to- day regarding the 0, A. U. declared that he never heard of its existence until he saw the statement tn the Heratn Ho feels confident that no suclf organization exists in this city, nor in the State, or he would know of it Many others expressed themselves similarly as to not knowing anything of it DENIAL OF THE EXISTENCE OF THB ORDER IN VIRGINIA—SOME ORGANIZATION AMONG THE NEGROES. Ricumonp, Dec, 21, 1875, An abstract of the Heratp’s exposure of the Order styled the American Union, and giving in brief the main features of that politico-religious organization, was published here in an afternoon paper, through the medium of the Associated Press, It soon became the leading topic of conversation among the politicians and citizens generally, and speculations were freely in- dulged in as to its origin, extent, and the influence it would probably exert in the Presidential contest of 1876. Tho fact that the President and ex-Speaker Blaine, the two principal candidates for the republhean Domination, were members of it, cansed a good deal of astonishment, and oreated the Impression that the republicans were determined, to force the school and church quéstjon: 4 the issues In the next Presidential campaign. LEADING CONSERVATIVES wore asked tf this Order had any explanate tn the ind the response was ‘Certainly not among the whites or conservatives,” alleging as a reason that they would not tolerate such a semi-religious organiza tion among them. Know leiperin Smid received its death blow im Virginia, and any simi political party can never be organized In this Stata. This feeling is par- mong the Southern Methodists, who ne at‘variance with their Northern Wethren since Bishop Ha nomination of Grant for a third term. The impression widely prevails, how. ever, that this organization existe among the negroes, and that it has supplanted the Union Leagues, which previously bound them together so firmly. They area secretive race, and, being superstitious, are easily in- duced by their white leaders to join such organizations, Though quite a number of republicans are here to-day from all parts of the State it was impossible to got any of them to admit that any of the subordinate Councils of the American Union existed in Virginia, PROFOUND SURPRISE IN THB CITY OF BROTHER- LY LOVE—BLISS¥OL IGNORANCE OF REPUBLI- CAN OFVICIALS—CATHOLIO INFLUENCE IN THE “Rixa,” * Purtapeirata, Dec. 21, 1875, The Henatp's startling exposure of the 0. A. U. is the theme of conversation among all who have read or heard of 1. #rom a hurried canvass of the public men of this city, politicaily and socially, tt appears that the news of the existence of this powerful and dangerous secret Order was a survrise, But few bad ever heard ite name before, while many admitted that a streng anti-Catholic influence is at work here. Philadelphia is the stronghold of anti-Catholic societies, the Ameriv can Protestant Association and the Orangemen are mor€ pumerous than in any other cityin the Union, It iq likely that such an Order as the O, A. U. would have councils here, but investigation has not thus far uns earthed any. A PROMINENT CATHOLIC’S VIEWS. John H. Campbell is the president of the Cathol¢ Total Abstinence Union of the archdiocese of Phila delphia, an organization resenting sixty-four societies and 11,000 members. was interrogated in relation to the Henatp exposure, He read it cae and said that he had never beard of an Order with tha name. His official position enabled bim to keep poste in such matters, and he thought it very likely that i such @ body existed in Philadelphia he would be award of it He was very sure that if it had ed aLy reat strength he would be informed. at anti tholic influences had been exerted at the recent elec tion he was very certain. Mr. Fahy, an Irish nnd bid candidate tor City Commissioner, ran far behind bi ticket, as Judge Elcock as she previous election did f the same reason, ROMAN CATHOLICS IN THH PHILADELPHIA RING, Mayor Stokley distinctly disavowed all knowledge o' such organization, saying at the samo time that b would prefer not to express any opinion upon tho su ject. The great majority of the Roman Catholics in thi: city are democratic in their tendencies, but the mi. nority, many of whom are men of influence, wield power in the “ring” which His Honor is powerless tat prevent, even were he so disposed. OTHER BLISSYULLY IGNORANT PERSONS. The City Treasurer is unaware of the existence 01 such an organization, Many of the leading repubiicn: politicians expressed themselves clearly upon the sub Ject, denying all knowledge of the society, quite number believing that it was a ‘set up,” to use a com- mon phrase, by the leaders of the opposition, Th members of our city government, in council, also pre- fess ignorance upon the question, but afew havin; heard of the Order, A visit to the principal officers o the Union League bad a like result, so fur as discover: ing any membership in that circle. DISCUSSION AND SPECULATION IN PITTSBURG—4 THE MASONS AND THE CATHOLICS. Prrrspora, Pa, Dec, 21, 1875. Especially in journalistic ard political circles the ex» posé im the Hunan of to-day of @ secret organtzation, known 4s the Order of the American Union, was thi occasion of no little discussion and speculation, Thi conclusion arrived at in almost every instance is that 1 such @ secret political organization exists at all it is confined exclusively to certain districts in the East, an has not that widespread circulation and influence im | the West claimed for tt After careful inquiry ee persons who should be cognizant of the existence o! any such society in this end of the State the conclusion” was reached that outside of the Protestant Association’ there is no organized body hostile to the Catholic clergy or laity and in the interest, body and soul, of the pres- ent administration. 2 POSTMASTER NEGLEY never heard tell of the Order of the American Union, and, though a member of several secret Orders, they were utterly and entirely free from the mixture of re~ ligion with politics, He-did not believe any one in hit employ had connection in any way or form with such society. Collector of Customs Steel said he had n faith in such an organization, and, though he held litical position, it was not at the sacrifice of his man. ood. Ho had no intimate friend connected with ‘an litical or religious secret Order, and was sanguin Brat there was no Order of the American Union in tb city of Pittsburg. He believed religion and politi should be separate and distinct, for the sake of th happiness and trey Ao the country. G, 0. Shidie, of he Scottish Rives in Masonry, and member of oth bliin bodies, never heard of the Order of the Ameri inion, THE MASONS OF PITTSBURG have introduced many Catholics and welcome them the ranks of the Order the same as pergons from an, other denomination. John Robimsot, Post Gran Sachem of the Order of Red Men and representative 1 the Great Council of the United States, had no knowl. edge of such an Order in this end of the State, and was conversant with nearly all the secret Orders. Your correspondent had a conversation this afternoon with a, representative workingman, who hold: sition | nearly all of the workingmen’s societies. The Junior, Sons of '76 was the only Order hereabouts that Thal spreading, but this was parely in the interest of th workingmen and had no connection with religion o politics. ORIGIN OF THE KNOW NOTHING MOVEMENT I CINCINNATI—ITS OBJECT A THIRD TERM FOR G@RANT—CATHOLIO OPINION OF THE ‘‘OVER< SHADOWING ISSUE"—METHODISTS DIVIDED. Crxcrmnatt, Deo. 21, 1875. Your representative to-day interviewed R. H. Stox phengon, Surveyor of this port; Gustav R, Wable, Post- master; W. Ampt, ex-County Prosecuting Attorney; Julius Blackburn, ex-Clerk of the Common Council Dr. Clendenin, ex-Health Officer, all republicana, an Mayor Johnston, democrat, concerning the exposé im this day’s Huratp of the Secret American Union- None of them knew of such organization having a branch in this city. INITIATION OF THE MOVEMENT. Such a movement was, however, Initiated in the First’ ward of this city during the crusade excitement. At a meeting of the Crusaders’ Club, where 800 memberx were present, John J. Hooker, « promi~ nent republican politician and member of the club, moved to turn the ergantzation Into « Know Notning Order, After much discussion thea motion prevailed, and those epposed were invited ta withdraw from the meeting. Subsequently the Order’ was changed to an anti-Cathelic erganization, an as euch still exists) There are minor 91 izations o| ‘the same character in nearly every one of the twenty- five wards of the city. KNOW NOTHINGISM AND THE THIRD TERM In Cleveland the organization ts said to number 10,000 inembers, and minor cities in the State all hava their lodges. The movement ed great head. way in the recent Allen-Hayes campaign, when the school question became a prominent issue. The objecw is the revival of Know Nothingism through the con« tinuance of President Grant in power. Several weeks ago @ young theological student named Taylor can- vassed the city for members, stating that the initiation feo was $1. THE OVERSHADOWING I88UB, Father J. F. ©. Callaghan, editor of the Catholic Teles bate said the Hxratp had struck the keynote of the Fresidential campaign, in which the overshadowing. issue would be founded on the warfare on Catholicism. ! He knew that an American Union existed and that the leading nen of the administration wore identified with, it, He had seen a pamphlet issued trom Washington, addressed to the league and stating the objects of thal organization. Grant's Des Moines speech, his M and the letter of the apostate Catholi¢, ex-Speake: Blaine, to Mr. Foster, editor of the Newark Advertiser, indicated plainiy ‘THR CONPLICT IMPENDING. $a meeting of the Methodist Episcopal Union hera, yesterday, an exciting discussion ensued on the presen« tation of the foliowing :— Having read in tho secular papers an account of the Brgegee of a meeting of Methodist miuisters lately; eld in the city of Boston relating to the nomination oé . President Grant for a third term for the Presidency o! the United States, and having learned with regret thal Bishop Gilbert Haven made himseif especially promi-| nent in the matter, Resolved, That, without expressing any opinion om the third term movement, it is our deliberato jJudgmen! that our respected Bishop Haven and the ministry of the Boston meoting referred to were guilty of a very weerror by thus publicly committing themselves: fore the people to political action in this matter. Resolved, That as ministers of the Methodist Episcos pal Church weare unalterably opposed to any inter- ference by ecclesiastical bodies with the politics of the: country. 4 suBsTiTOTR. Asa substitute tho following was offered :— Resolved, That while we, a8 a body of ministers, de- cline to express an opinion in regard to the election of} a President for @ third term, we deeply deplore th course of Bishop Haven betore the Boston Preachers’ meeting in suggesting the renomination of President: Grant Resolved, That wo, as ministers of the Mothodise Episcopal Church, are unalterably opposed to any inter ference by ecclesiastical bodies with the partisan poli- tues of the country. DIVISION ON THR QUESTION. Discussign was then renewed, and « motion to Indefe Ritely postpone action was lost by Mtols, 4 to lay on the table was not heard, and amid great con- fusion the meeting adjourned, They were plainly divided on the question. . 4 RAP AT THR ‘A. 0. BL” New Yorn, Deo. 21, 1873, To tae Eprror ov rum Henay:— As you have succeeded in exposing the objects the “0, 4. U." and the 0. U. A M.*, bow o to be antiCatholio societies, will you try and give to the publio the objects of the “A. 0. H.,” who admit none w membership but Imsh Roman Cathol also the St Patrick Mutaal Alliance, both of which cietios our streets in numbers on St Patrick’s day? Don’t stop, Mr. Bditor, Go on wit the good work, Yours, ANTI-TAMM. § GRANT AND THE AMERICAN ORDER. To Tus Eprron ov ta® CQMMERCIAL ADVERTISER :— This morning's Hxnatp has an tmperfect exposé off the “Order of the American Unton,” im which tt stated that “National Deputy Edgar initiated Grant, privately, also Postmaster General Jewell.” This hea | nota fact, nor, in the belief of the national officials, member of tia are either of the above gentiem: Ordor, My individual opinion 1s not wish Pr Grant to ve re-elected do not h spite of them tnd all u we” Vow. No, 83 Park row, room 30, December 21, ‘