The New York Herald Newspaper, December 22, 1875, Page 4

ee Public Opinion on the Order of American Union. Effect on the Public by the Herald’s Expose. ITS ACCURACY CONFIRMED. What Members of the “Order” Have to Say. “IT IS A POWERFUL BODY.” “Its Work is Far from Be- ing Ended.” “PUT AN END TO CATHOLICS.” Defiance and Bitterness Displayed by the Brethren. ~ ‘The full exposé of the secrets of the “0. A. U.,’” pub- lished in yesterday’s Hegatp, hag naturally created much consternation in the ranks of the ‘‘brethren” in the Order, Everywhere yesterday the subject was the Jeading topic of convorsation, Thousands.of conserva- tive Protestants to whom the existence of the Order ‘was before unknown and undreamt of read with aston- wshment tho voluminous constitution, bylaws and forms of proceeding as laid down for the organization. Thus realizing its dangerous tendency toward the sub- version of the fundamental principles of our govern- ment, this class of citizens unhesitatingly denounced the Order, The feeling among Catholics was one of sorrow as well as surprise and indignation. The mem- ories of the days of the old Know Nothing party came back with full force, and the feeling of sectarian hatred so universal in those days was remembered. @BThose fair minded peoplo who hola to no particular belief, but rather adhere to the general doctrines of Christianity, and unite with either sect in’ all proper efforts to uphold irtedom of religious belief in the United States, denounced the ‘0. A. U.’? In all quarters the course of the Henao in its strenu- ‘ous efforts to thwart the objects of the organization was highly commended. The members of the Order were alone in their denunciation of the exposé, but they could not deny its accuracy. Some of them, while admitting that Speaker Blaine was a brother, asseried that Presi- dent Grant was not connected with the Order, but boldly claimed that/he was in full sympathy with its objects. A HeRa.p reporter yesterday morning met A PROMINENT REPUBLICAN POLITICIAN, whose name is well known in New York, who sald, as he pointed to the Heraup which he held in his hand :— “I will say one thing which the Heaton did not men- tion in this eaposé, and that is with relation to the num- bers belonging to the Order. The Henaup has not an adequate conception of its magnitude. Yesterday I of course would not have spoken about the subject except toa brother member, for 1 have been connected with the Order since its origin; but to-day the Hugarp has Jaid bare all the secrets and it ts no use concealing anything. What action the Senate of the Order will take now I cannot say, but i predict that we will have an entirely new deal.” “You spoke about the magnitude of tne Order just now,” said the reporter, ‘‘can you give me an idea of your strength in numbers?’ “Well, I will say this much, and on it you may rely. In the single State ot Ohio we have 45,000 members. Now you can draw your own inferences from that. It is a powerful body, and notwithstanding the efforts of the Hera its work is far from being ended.” THE THIRD TRRM. “Ig not the main object of the Order the re-election of General Grant to a third term?” “That I will not say. Its objects are the exclusion in every instance of Roman Catholics from all places of trust and power in both local and national govern- ments, They bave too long prostituted our govern- ment to sectarian purposes and now we propose to put an end to them. We are not only powerfal—powerful in numbers, but powerful and earnest in our determina- tion and our work will be felt far and near in the com- ing Presidential campaign. Weare a secret body be- cause experience bas taught us that success can only be accomplished by secrecy. Look out for breakers |”? The politician on repeating the nautical phrase ‘look out for breakers” took his departure. His sentiments were but the echo of those expressed by all found yesterday belonging to the “0, A. U.”? Although the thousands of members in New York when they opened the Henao yesterday morning were dumbfounded at the revelations they saw therein, they were even more awestricken at reading the account of the proceedings of Counci! No. 2 as witnessed by a Heratp reporter. How he could have escaped detection, even possessed of a knowledge of the grips and passwords, was a mystery not easily fathomed, and Council No. 2camo in for a hearty share of abuse for their misfortune. PROCEEDINGS IN COUNCIL. s The account published yesterday was necessarily Drief, owing to the lateness of the hour at which the session ended. Therefore, it is herewith submitted in detail. Bunker Hill Council, No. 2, from what could be learned, is one of the most important of the councils in New Yorx. From it many of those now in operation in this city sprang into existence, and its roll of mom- bers comprises many names well known throughout the State. The headquarters were formerly at tho corner of Eighteenth street and Third avenue, and there meetings were held once a month. A few months ago, More spacious accommodations becoming neces- sary, it was determined to lease the first floor of No. 1 Livingston place, corner of Fifteenth street, The meet ing last night was the second held since the change, an interregnum of one or two meetings having taken place, owing to the unavoidable absence from the city of some of the more prominent officers, ‘The building No, 1 Livingston place is a four story brown stove front dwelling house, the upper part of whith is occupied by the Eclectic College of Surgery, the basement by the janitor’s family, and the first floor, consisting of a front and back parlor, is used by tho Council. A diagram of the premises, showing the location of the house and the apartments occupied by the Council, together with the relative positions occupied by tho officers when the body ts tn session, is given on this page. The entrance, it will be seen by referring to tne dia- gram, is on Livingston place, which boands Stayvesant Park on the east, Ascending the stone steps the visitor passes through an outer and inner door before reaching the hall, About six feet from the entrance are the stairs leading up to the rooms occupied by the Eclectic College. A few feet from the inner door, to the lett, 1s the door leading to the council room. On entering the council room, after giving the password, ‘Glad!’ to the outer sentinel, the first object one sees Is the platform, which extends along the head of the room from ewall to wall, being elevated about two feet from the floor and about six feet in width, In front of the platform is a table, upon which is a Bible and the charter granted the council by the Supreme Senate, It is usually cov- ered with the national flag. On either side of the President's table on the platform are two others, the one to the right occupied by the Secretary and the one on the left by the Chaplain, When the body went into session on Monday nignt two sentinels were placed on duty, one at the door in- side tho room and the other outside, The Marshal wat directly facing the president, in the middle of tho room, The brethren occupied ehairs ranged in rows from wall to wall, the first row being from twelvo to fifteen feet from the edge of.the platform. The floor ‘was uncarpeted and the walls entirely devoid of orna- sare many member: NEW YORK HERALD, WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 22, 1875.—TRIPLE SHEET. ment. A large chandelier in the middle of the room and a few-side burners furnished the light. The windows were securely screened with blinds and ‘& person on the street could not tell by looking at them that the room was lighted or not as no glimmer of light penetrated to the outside. The Henan reporter reached the house shortly be- fore eight o’clock. Opening the door ofthe council room he saw six or eight gentlemen chatting socially together, Sitting near the door was acolored man, and to him the reporter addressed bis conversation, taking aseat beside him, Soon he learned that the colored man wasa member of the order. To convince him that he was conversing to a brother the reporter whis- pered the talismanic “Gladstone,” that being the complete password, and began the process of in- terviewing. The colored brother was pliable, and in a few minutes had expressed himself al considerable length, He was bitterly op to Cath- olies on general principles. The principal of the school where his children attended was a olic, and the speakerhated him. ‘Talk about the Bible in the public schools,” said the colored man, “I tell you, sir, before we say anything about the Bible we want to clean out every Catholic school teacher and every Catholic office- holder in the United States, ’” ‘Anotber member now approached the reporter, and learning that he was from uncil No, 1, said “Good, then you will want some of the tickets, will you not?” “Certainly,” auswered the reporter, wondering what the tickets were, as the brother thrust into his band a bundle of 150 printed cards, of which the following is a copy: THE BIBLE IN OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, 3 4 PUBLIC MEETING OF THE FRIENDS OF THE BIBLE AND OUR COMMON SCHOOLS ‘WILL BE MELD IN THE ; NOBTH BAPTIST CHURCH, corner Christopher and Bedford streets, 3 Thursday, December 23, 1875, at 7:30PM. 3 EMINENT SPEAKERS WILL ADDRESS THE MERTING. sneer nen mene ne eee: + ADMIT BEARER 4ND YRIENDS. Teeapnananantatanateanaareneaee ‘These were to be distributed where they would do “the most good,”’ and it is evident that this is the way the Order secks to further its ends, Several other F tag then entered the room, and after some delay president of the council took bis seat, GETTING TO woRK. The first business was to direct the Marshal, a Mr. Robingon, to see that none but members wore present. That officer immediately left his seat and began his task. The president was first approached. A shake of the hand and a whisper and the Marshal passed on, oing throt process with every person present hen the Teporter was reached, he knowing the password and the FP, gave both, and the Mar- shal, not suspecting his mntity, passed on to the t, Afterthe Marshal had announced in due form that every person present was a “member,” the president fa opar Moye oo the council by appoint- ing the sentinela. Seoretary, a Mr. Foster, then proceeded to read the minutes of the previous meeting. ie this was going on the reporter, who sat in the corner of the room, making arrangements about taking sach notes a8 were necessary. This was no easy task, as the slightest movement might betray him, ‘Taking from his pocket a number of cards the writer placed them in his and with asmall piece o/ pen- cil commenced his Near by sat a member who every now and then, as {f suspicious of the reporter, glanced at him with a berg ME To write under this surveillance was difficuit, but the ‘ter man- aged to scratch down, sometimes on his cufts and some- times on the cards in the Jining of his hat, the names of such persons as were mentioned. As if to render the reporter's poritios even more critical, Mr. Gibbs, the of Council No. 1, with whom the reporter had been ped to converse while representing himself as a member of that council, sat inthe rear. In a word, the gid was on the ‘‘rag- ged edge” from the moment of his entry until his de- parture. When the President announced that the altar would now be prepared there was a bustle among the members in anticipation of the impressive {nittation ceremonies to take place, but the Chaplain, Mr. Buck- ingham, brought matters down to prosy routine by rising and stating that # the present session no per- sons were to be initiated. “Then,” said the President, striking the table with hia gavel, “we will proceed with the next business, Are there are any committees to report ?”” No answer coming, the President said, “Mr, Secre- bar what unfinished business is there?” ¢ Secrotary replied that he knew of none. At this juncture a peculiar rap (consisting of three knocks, the last two betng separated trom the firat by an interval of a second) was heard at the door, and the inside sentinel opened it about an inch and immediately announced, “The Vice President of the council awaits outside,” “Let him enter,” nded the President, and the door was opened s1 ntly to admit a tall, elderly man, who mildly waiked io, and, without tormality, took a eat on the left or the room. He had hardly sat ‘down when another loud rap from the President’s gavel called attention. “Myr. Vice President,” said that oficial, ‘1 must in- sist that every brother who enters this coun- cil room shall comply with the formalities All eyes ed toward the Vice Presi- dent as aroees. pikctng mis finger to the tip of bis nose moved it upward to his forehead, drew it across toward the right ear and let bis hand fall by his sido, This is the customary salute of all ‘broth. ers.’ “We will now proceed to the consideration of new business,” said the President, rapping tho table. ‘Phe Chaplain, Mr. Buckingham, then arose and said that with relation te the communication from the Leg- islature of the State, read by the Secretary, announcing that Bunker Hill Council, No. 2, was indebted in the sum of $5°20, he hoped that members in arrears would pay up. The speaker set a good example by walking to the Secretary’s table and handing over a fifty cent stamp. Other members soon foliowed and the amount was speedily collected. Mr. Buckingham next moved that hereafter the sessions of the council be held on the third Wednesday of every month. In support of bis motion he said that the present winter was a seyere one, and every effort shouid be made to economize. He saw no necessity for bringing members together more than once & month. ‘The resources of the council should be hus- banded. It had been urged by some brothers that meetings be held once a week, but he was not at the preseut time in favor of that, "He was heartily in favor of holding meetings as often as was necessary, but he was opposed to unnecessary sessions. Mr. Douglas, who is employed in some capacity in the Custom House and who was at one time President of the council, then arose and replied to Brother Buck- ingham. He exceedingly regretted to see any move- ment tending to abridge the interest felt in the “cause” by members. Meetings should be held at least twice a month, He wasin favor of holding them weekly. Every brother knew that the work of the “Order” dur ing the coming Presidential campaign was a stupendous one. The cause of the Order was a most noble one, For his part he was willing to come to the council rooms every night, if his presence could help the “cause”? ‘After some farther remarks Mr. Buckingham with- drew his motion and a motion that after the Ist of Jan- uary, 1876, the meetings of the council be held every sound and fourth Wednesday in each month was car- rie ‘The President then rose, and said that he saw with pleasure some new faces present, He saw his esteemed rother from Council No, 8, and he beheld with grati- fication his worthy brother from Council No. 6 He was also extremely glad to see present the brother from the Fourth Council, but he made no reference to the ‘new’? (?) inember from Council No, L Matters were now beginning to assume a rather delicate og for the Henan reporter, Finding that the regular order of business was ex- hausted, the reporter thought it best to avoia any further conversation with members after adjournment, so, advancing toward the President's table, he gave the salute of the Order, then to the various officers on the platform, after which he asked tho President leave to withdraw, Permission to retire was given and the reporter passed the sentinel, and in a moment was outside the Jurisdiction of the council, INTERVIEWS WITH THE LEADERS. THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE. Last evening a reporter of the Hxnatp called at the residence of the President of the Senate of 0. A U.'s, Mr. George D. Weeks, whose name was emblazoned be- fore tho world in these columns of yesterday. Mr. Weeks lives at No, 158 Washington avenue, He is about thirty-eight years age For many years past, since the termination of the war, he has been promin- ent in republican local politica, and few men are better known in the vicinity of the City Hall than “Georgie Weoks,” as the politicians familiarly call him, Up to last May Mr, Weeks occupied the position of Superin- tendent of the Supply Department of the City Works, He said, referring to the article published in the Huratp:—''There is much in it that 18 true and a great deal that is devoid of truth; but I would rather not at this juncture enter upon any statemont for publication. 1 will, however, say this upon my own responsibility and from my personal knowledge as an officer of the Order, that neither President Grant, Speaker Blaine nor Mr. ett are members of the Order, nor are there any members ofthe Cabinet of the United States con- nected with our soclety.”” “Could they not be members without your knowledge of the fact ?”” “No, sir; whenever persons are initiated outside the Order, they are called member only four or five officers in the the power to initiate outside member: who are admitted away from the lodge, are bound to notify mediately of their action. Now, I will say that wo have not the names of either of these persons on our records. Deputy Edgar, who accredited with the initiation of Genoral Grant, is out in a card to-night that is those ‘hese officers the oilicers at headquarters im- gent to Washington last week to initiate Speaker Blaine, If he did go there 1 was on his own ie bility and not by any order of the organization. The HeraLn exposé of course, came, indirectly from one who was o member, We are not frightened in the least degree, however, and there are those who will not deprecate the publication, There ho ha for some time past agitating the propriety of doing y with secrecy en- tirely and coming out boldly, T! ok as has been very well known, has been in existence for some time and it has asserted a strong influence.” “Ts it not strongly anti-Catholic in its tenets 1? “That is whorg thy Henany pipkos a arcat mistake, ou, aby more anti-Catholic than byterians, Meth Dutch med, Baptista or any Protestant dei nation. ‘We deny that this bay or ae bas Lon J todo witb a man’s religious ef. We have simply to do with Yao a questions. We are opposed to the appro- priation of public money for any sect, .or for the Durpooss of any religious institutions whatsoever. 1 myself am s warm advocate of the taxation of all church property. For instance, I don’t see why they should take taxes off the Simpson Methodist church, which I attend, and put it on my house, would much rather, as a member of that congregation, pay more pew rent. The Order izes no sect in 4ts opposition to the appropriation of public money. We are opposed to any division of the Public School Fund to satisfy any class of people. They say we are ‘anti-Catholic for the reason that many of the leading men of that Church have taken position against the public schools, and have sought a division of that fund, Against such we have taken position. It is true that this opposition will come a little harder upon the Catholics at this time than, perhaps, upon other churches.” “Do you recelve pecuniary aid from the govern- ment?” “T will state emphatically that we have never re- ceived $1 from the government nor from any polit: committee or organization, nor do we ever expect receive a dollar from any such source. All that pu) lished about nbdaoks from Washington ts all in», eye. When I make a statement 1 want to be ab! stand to it, and I am talking now without consu’ with my brother officers, so that you will exe, for not foing fully into the details of the matte y I see wi b “Protestant” I say it appears in the published form it has be, written in. Much of the article is true 4 as I said before, is not true. The 4 whose religion makes any differenc “But how do you suppose the ‘Through the treachery of a the paper: “ But wouldn’t that mem! was at the lodge last night?” “No, he was not at the }; HeRatp men who were th he saw two suspicious looki They were, papery t In conclusion President Weeks said that there would soon be a meeting of the Sen: m which action would be taken in the 1808, fe could not refrain, he said, from expressing his gratitude to the brother mem- ber who had written of him as a ‘shrewd and not over- scrupulous politician.” VICE PRESIDENT LEWSEN. This gentleman, who ia Vice President of Columbia Council, No. 18, was found at the Cooper Institute post office, where he is employed. When interrogated as to the alm and object of the Order of the American Union, he said that so far as he knew {ts main purpose ‘was vo secure the retention of the Bible in the public schoola, Members of the organization, ho said, dif- Union had any influence on the Ite elections {mn the city of New York? Mir, Hour—1 do, In some districts especially, where m4 association was properly organized, it made itself felt, GEORGE P. EDGAR. Mr, George P, Edgar, book agent, at No. 83 Park row, ‘and national Deputy of the organization, was next in- terviewed. As soon as the reporter stated his business, Mr. Edgar answered by saying, ‘Offer your questions and I will answer them.” Rerorren—Are you a member of the orgapization called the “0, 4 U.,” and are you one of its de- fend s? Epcar—I will not say that I am or am nota er of that association, but with the principles own and enunciated by that organization I am in sympathy. 1 can tell you one thing, and that + there is not one organization, but many organiza- 3, that mean work on this thing The American Westant Association, the Patriotic Sons of America in the United Order of American Mechanics are all i Rarorter—Is the Common School League in aMfilia- jon with the Order of American Union? Mr. Evcar—I do not belong to the Common School ‘League, but I believe some of their sympathies are akin to ours. Gee Mr. Edgar admitted his membership in the 0. A. U.) When the American people meet at the polls next election the foreign element will understand what it means. p MAJOR =PANGBORN. Major Pangborn, editor of the Jersey City Evening Journal, was found at home yesterday afternoon at bis residence, No. 163 Varick street, Jersey City. The Major i: gentleman of forty-five or forty-eight years of age. He is slim in figure, rather under than over the medium height, has » well-developed forehead, sharp, penetrating, dark gray eyes, and wears a full beard. He Is an old journalist of many years’ experi- ence, Atthe time of receiving the call Major Pang- born was engaged in the delightful occupation of watch- ing his oldest son at play with his toys, Major Pangborn’s attention having been drawn to the Heravp article on the “0. A. U.,”? eaid:— “I baye been much amused by the press comments which Foster's letter drew forth. It could not havo been a very wise thing om the author’s part to publish orconsent to the publication of such a communica- tion.” “Well, Major; but what about the ‘0. A U.’?”” “Oh, it ia nok as the heading of the article says! Grant does not belong to it, so far as I can learn, I think this is all stuff; a grain of truth amid a bushel of falsehoods." ah I see that you, Major, belong to the organiza tion, “There are two organizations of the nature attributed to the 0. A. U., and it ig hard to say which of them ts referred to in this articla Both organizations are of recent birth, and both originated from the same cause—that ‘ia, the public school question, Both IN SHCRET SESSION. Diagram of Lodge Room of Bunker Hill Council No. 2, No. 1 Livingston place. — Near Room @) .@) Boats for Members fe) QO | Entraée to Caliszo. Fifteenth street. 1 Inner Bal ‘Vieo President Be Teaver Sentinel. 3) BIBLE. Outer Sentinel, } _— . Chaplain. President. Becretary. Outer Hall | il es uf Livingston Place. fered very much on tnis subject. Some thought that if the Bible were removed once for all trom the schools, th + gocial and religious problem would be solve and with it all chance in the future of any re- ligious animosities or vexations all over the country. ‘He did not think so, however. It was his belief that this question of the Bible was only the very beginning of what would be demanaed by the Church of Rome, and he therefore believed that this first attempt at en- croachment should be met and defeated. On being shown the Heratp account of the oath and charge belonging to the initiation of members into the Order, he said that both were incorrect. Kverythin; stated in the oath and in the charge which expresse: opposition to the Catholic Church and to Catholics, cept in go far as the retention of the Bible in tho schools was concerned, was all wrong and not contained in the formula of initiation administered to new members, HENRY J. HOLT. A Henatp roporter calledon Mr. Henry J. Holt, a practical printer, doing business at No, 87 Nassaa street, Mr, Holt resides in Elizabeth, N. J., and is the President or “Speaker” of the New Jersey Legislature of “0, A. U.,’? and also Secretary of tho Senate, The printed matter issued by and concerning the Order is prepared by Mr. Holt, As soon as the reporter stated his mission Mr. Holt sald:— ‘Tell me in brief what you want to know and I will answer you,’” Rerorter—Mr. Holt, I presume you have read tho exposé of a secret organization called the Order of American Union in td-day’s Henao? Mr. Hour—Yes, sir; Ihave read it, and I think that the Rov, Oscar Hugo, a Hugarian refugee, has given the whole thing away. Part of what is in the Herarp is correct, and fl ged part of is ts Incorrect, The preamble to the constitutioa of the Senate fs correct, and I.indorge every word of it As far as supporting General Grant for tho third term tho organization, as a body, bas not declared iteclf I do not support Grant individually, and thero are many others ike me. I must say, howover, that I indorse the speech made by him at Des Moines, Towa, and so do many others connected with the organization. Personally, I am opposed to Grant, bat if the Catholio influnce is too strong I suppose we will have to take up Grant Rerorter—Is the Order of United American Me- bong in sympathy with this “Order of American inion, Mr. Hort—The Order of United American Mechanics isa purely benevolent organization. There are some Catholics in it, [ believe, but such te tho feeling they could never be raised to any offlea, ‘cae t you think of the exposéin the BRALD, Mr, Hort—1 look upon {ft as a splendid advertiso- Ment. The faot of the matter fs, nineteen out of twenty American born citizens, who are non-Catholica, would Join the association as soon aw they knew it was in ex astence. Rerorter—Then you indorse tl ovement? Mr. Hott—I do, because | believe the tnfuence of Romanism should be put down. It {s & pernicions tn- stitution and must be equelched. However, this anti- Catholic movement has nothing to do with Grant There are many Democrats and Liberal Republicans nging to the organization. Ono thii how- 1 will gay. ‘he organization fully in- dorses Grant's speech at Des Moin lowa Rurorter—Have you any solid reason, Mr. Holt, for believing that the Rev. Oscar Hugo gave mation to tho Haraup? Mr. Hour—I know that thore was only one copy of a certain document which was printed in the HeraLp to- day, and I know that that was stolon by the Rev, Oscar Pel and he is now in Europa, 80 much the better ir bin, Rerogren—Do you think the Order of American bave the same aims and objects in view, tor both are intended to defend and uphold in their integrity the present American general system of public education.™ The two organizations are st alike, and, as I understand, one of them was organized in Ohio, while the other came into existence in the Eastern States. I don’t know if they are now working together as a single body. Perhaps they are.” to The names and aims of them are, I suppose, familiar ou “The name of one of the organizations I don’t know, and if1 did know the other it would be out of my power to tell you what itis = The aim and object ofthe societies have already been touched upon. They are ‘ganized on an entirely unsectarian basis, and have been created solely for the purpose of defending the integrity of our present admirable public school system." “Yes, but what about the support which {tis said Grant is to have for a third term of office from the 0, A. U.P” “The organization has nothing whatever to do with the third term agitation. I was in Washington all last week and saw Mr. Blaine, who says that the entire matter is all Greek to him; and I don’t beliove that either he or Grant are members of either of the socie- ties now indicated. I don’t know of any meeting con- cerntng these societies having taken in the 8 ae pars New a Indeed, my health and circumstances aye of la ep such ot admit of my Wong ot tea uch #4, 2° R any rate I don’t know anything of a body which in to-day’s Hgra.p’s article is designated as the National Council, I never heard of money hay- ing been obtained as here alleged, nor am I aware ie the ‘big guns’ and employés of the Custom House afo active members of any such fraternity as that now de- scribed. Neither Foster's lettera nor hie interviews with members of the press prove anything, for \t is clear that he has thrown no new light on the subject of this so-called 0. A. U., and that if he is a member of such an organization {t would be out of his power to reveal any of its secrets, | am, and have beon for more than bb | years, a momber of the United Order of American Mechanics, but this is not a secret erder everybody knows when and: where ite meetings ar held. People of all creeds, including Roman Caltolies, belong to it, and the brotherhood non-political in every horns being in n0 way compromised to support any political party." “Are you prepared, Major, to say anything Med ne Lada a as which led w thi ‘ganization “Why, ag far as I know, thelr existence must be at- tributed to the avowed hostility of Bishop McQuade, her Walker, of the Roman Cathelic oburch, an against the publi several occasions, to his ad at Syracuse, New Orleans and Quade has e: hools, On lectures and letters where, Bishop Mo- Sere ibe Smet" ia Poe ae schools, and hoped that might live long enough to see them destroyed. The expression of such illiberal sentiments as these, coupled with the fanatical discourses of Father Walker, th threatening action of the Catholic Union and such like signs of the coming storm, rendered some counteract- tng sone oe absolute necessity. The holies think that King James’ Bible should not be read tm the other editions of reply to this port? “I would treat the Bible in the public schools as-f it wore the work of Shakespeare or any other celebrated euthor, It ought not to be either especially incladed or particularly excluded from the.schools, Those who desire to read the Bible there should have the priv lege of doing 60, and those who don’t want to read tt ought not to bo compelled to use the book. Catholics should have the rignv (which undoubtedly they possess) of taking their Douay to the schools and reading them there, Protestants ought also be “conceded an equal privilege with re- spec, to their particular version of the Scriptures If any Board of Bducation has taken the unwarrantable liberty of adopting a rule for the Cog ge of making tt obligatory on sch: WO Darticinale Bible reading ublio schools to the exclusion of @ Boriptures, What would you or pealm singing, contrary to their religious opinions, such rales showts be at once expunged from the minute books of the Board. Perhaps the best way to get rid of the whole matter is to say nothing at all about the Bible in the public schools; neither legislate it in nor exclude it from them." “Then you think that the two organizations whose existence you have indicated are unsectarian and not directed against the Catholics?” ‘Ido, Let us see: here ig the plank in their plat- form which I am willing to stand by :— “We oppose 8 division of the school fund for any sectarian purposes whatever, @n a word, we are pledged to maintain guE Fenublican form of government and its institutions aa in- caltion toe date eathers. an4 to place all men jointly tn » | mop eg themeelves against the aggrossious “The clanse directed against Romanism bas been added without authority to the original article, There i but one way in which a case of constructive opposk tion to Romanism can be made out against the socl- eties. It is that the,Catholics more than any other de- nomination bave shown themselves opposed to the pud- lic schools, and hence they possibly tmagine that these new societies are directed particularly against them, while it mi be conceded that the attitade of Bishop MoQuade and others has done much to agitate men’s minds on this important matter and to fill the ranks of ‘the new associations. I know Mr Edgar, and beli that if Grant had been initiated ag stated, | would have known about it, Edgar never referred to the matter in his conversations with me, and I am enough in the society to know the fact if there wag any truth in the report of Grant’s supposed initiation. 1 cannot tell if the heading of the article is the right name of tho association to which it , upposed to refer; I don’t know the right title of the organization, and would not give the names if they were known to me. Roman Catholic intrigues on the schoo! ques- tion brought on the battle two years ago. and tt was fought out in the last session of our State Legisiaturs During the session betore last the friends of 1 Catholic Union wanted to pass what was called the Catholic Protectory bill. By the provisions of the pro- Jected enactment any Tanginerats or justice of the peace was empowel to take up any child that might be found on whether it might be @ vagrant or not, and han it over to the tender mercies of the Catholic Protectory, and this institution would tl have Jurisdiction over that child’s person in the same man- ner as if it belonged ts the Catholic Church, whether it did or not. The bill was taken up—and very impru- dently, too—by the democrats, who made ita party measure, It passed the House, but was killed in the Senate, The next (last) session, when the bill was brought up again, it was defeated’ in both branches of the Legislature, and, as a result of the effect upon th publig mind, the republicans, who opposed the bill, n only retained their superiority in the Senate, bu! ue control of the House of Representatives, the femocrats losing their majority of nineteen and the re- ' publicans gaming a controlling vote of seventeen. This result speaks volumes of the effect which the Catholic agitation against the public Schoqls has brought forth.” “Youare credited with being a member of the Senate of the 0. A. U. Do you desire that this report should be confirmed or contradicted ??” “Thus far the Order has not been able to command My services, but I don’t know how soon it may. Pri- vato and domestic considerations have for a time intervened to prevent my working with the so- ciety. And even if I were in the traces T would only go so far with the organization as my con- science could safely carry me, no further, All the talk about a third term for Grant has nothing in it He don’t want a third term, The circumstances of the country are not such as would justify bis asking it, and if he did the people would not grant (Grant) it, Foster might say that the President does want a third term, butsuch isreally not the case. I sympathize fully wath that part of the President’s last message which ro- fers to the school question. His views are just and right They are neither — relig- ious nor eectarian, but, on the contrary, very non-committal and ‘genuinely unsectarian. Another thing, I believe with Grant—or without bim {f you like—that all property, meluding every descrip- tion of church property, should be taxed,” “Do you recognize the travelling card which ts shown in the cut accompanying the article f”” “J don’t recognize the travelling card at all. I never had one myself. Never «6aw one belore. Tho Catholic Union of Jersey City is as secret a society as either of those alluded toin the Heraup of to-day. Last year I saw @ circular of that union im which the members avowed their intentions to do all in their power for the purpose of procuring a pro rata denominational divi- sion of the school funds. BEY. DB. EDDY, Rey, Dr. Eddy, pastor of the First Union church of Jersey City, received @ call yesterday at bis residence, in Third street, from ® HxRaup reporter. The object of this visit was to ascertain the reverend gentleman’s views on the recently discovered secret order of 0. A. U. Dr. Eddy was found to bea man of commanding presence, he being an elderly gentleman of over six feet in height, @ splendid specimen of American man- hood, possessing @ fine brown eye, marked features, and wearing his abundant crop of white hair rather long and baving his beard closely ‘Pm in a great burry just now—reading for time my lecture Which will be delivered in Rah: night—so that I cannot say much about the society named in the Hura.p this morning.” “Do you know anything of the existence of such a society ?”” “I won’t say anything just now, As far as my opin- jon goes thi: asham; but I nad rather uot enter into a Tx Just at present, Som@other time will do as ‘Do yon recognize the visiting card?” “No, I don’t recognize the card, Ihave never seco {t before,” “Then I may state that you don’t belong to such an organization as that spoken of in the Heraid ?”” “I may belong to two or three or many secret socie- ties, but that does not matter at present"? Mr. Eddy upon being informed that Major Pangboor had been interviewed on the eubject, hastily exclaimed with evident imterest :— “Oh, indeed! What did the Major say?’? J. FERGUSON, Mr. J. Ferguson, a broker at No, 41 Pine street, who was said to be connected with Park Council, No. 19, meeting every Wednesday evening at Forty-ninth street and Eighth avenue, was next called upon, Mr. Ferguson is gentieman about fifty-five years of ago, and by appearances seems to suffer a great deal from gout or chronic rheumatism, Ho satt he had read the article in the Heratp on the “0. A. US,” but did not be- Jong to the organization. He was a member of the Order of United American Mechanics for twenty-Qve years, and was one of its first officers. Revortse—Mr, Ferguson, are you not in sympathy with this organization ? Mr. Farovson—A newspaper has got nothing to do with my sympathies; but as I said before I was a mem- ber of the Order of United American Mechanics twenty- five years ago. I don’t believe in this third term basi- ness, I did not vote for Lincoln and I voted for sey- mour, bat it was a bracts, tough dose. I am an old line whig. My father was a Presbyterian, and as far as ro- ligion ts concerned [{ am too; but I don't believe in Grant He is a man I cannot put any faith in. THE OBDER IN OTHER CITIES. A PROMINENT GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL aT AI-~ BANY PROFESSES IGNORANCE OF THE SECRET ORDER, Aupayy, Dec, 21, 1875 A prominent government official here, the recognized leader of the republican party, who 1s certain to be fully informed on tho subject, on being interviewed to- day regarding the 0, A. U. declared that he nover heard of its existence until he saw the statement in the Henatn. Ho fecls confident that no sucl! organization exists in this city, nor in the State, or he would know of it Many others expressed themselves similarly as to not knowing anything of it DENIAL OF THE EXISTENCE OF THB ORDER IN VIRGINIA—-SOME ORGANIZATION AMONG THE NEGROES. Ricumoxp, Dec. 21, 1875. An abstract of the Herap’s exposure of the Order styled the American Union, and giving in brief the main features of that politico-religious organization, ‘was published here in an afternoon paper, through the medium of the Associated Press, It soon became the leading topic of conversation among the politicians and citizens generally, and speculations were freely in- dulged in as to its origin, extent, and the influence it would probably exert in the Presidential contest of 1876, Tho fact that the President and ex-Speaker Blaine, the two principal candidates for the republican nomination, were mombers of it, cansed a good deal of astonishment, and oreated the Impression that the republicans were determined. to force the school and church quéstons ag the issues In the next Presidential campaign, Several LEADING CONSERVATIVES were asked If this Order bad any explanate in tho South, and the response was ‘Certainly not among the whites or conservatives,” alleging a8 a reason that they would not tolerate such @ semi-religious organiza tuon among them. Know Nothi received its death blow in Virginia, and any simi political party can never be organized in this Stata’ This feeling is par- ticularly strong among the Southern Methodists, who are more than ever at ‘variance with their Northern Drethren since Bishop Haven's nomination of Grant hird term. The impression widely prevails, how. ever, that this organization existe among the negroes, nd that it has supplanted the Union Leagues, which previously bound them together so firmly. They area ‘ace, and, being superstitious, are easily by their white leaders vo join such organizations, Though quite a number of republicans are here to-day from all parts of the State it was impossible to get any of them to admit that any of the subordinate Councils of the American Union existed in Virginia, PROFOUND SURPRISE IN THB CITY OF BROTHER- LY LOVE—BLISSFOL IGNORANCE OF REPUBLI- CAN OFVICIALS—CATHOLIO INFLUENCE IX THE “Rrxo.” Porapeirata, Deo. 21, 1875, The Henatp’s startling exposure of the 0. A. U. Is the theme of conversation among all who have read or heard of i. From o hurried canvass of the pablic men of this city, politicaily and socially, tt appears chat the nows of the existence of this powerful and dangerous seoret Order was a surprise, But few bad ever heard {te name before, while many admitted that a streng anti-Catholic influence is at work here. Philadelphia is tho stronghold of anti-Catholic societies, the Ameriv can Protestant Association and the Orangemen are mor¢ bumerous than in any other cityin the Union. It i¢ likely that such an Order as the 0, A. U. would have councils here, but investigation has not thus far uns earthed any. A PROMINENT CATHOLIO’S VIE John H. Campbell is the president of the Catholy Total Abstinence Union of the archdiocese of Phila delphix, an organization es Aig sixty-four societies and 11,000 members. He was interrogated ia relation to the Hxkatn exposure, Ho read it Ei and gaid that he had never heard of an Order with thi name. His official position enabled him to keep poste in such matters, and he thought it very likely that such a body existed in Philadelphia he would award of it He was very sure that if it had acquired any reat strength he would be tnformed. That aptid Exthotie influences had been exerted at the recent 7 tion he was very cortain, Mr. Fahy, an Irish Catholi candidate tor City Commissioner, ran far behind b ticket, as Judge Elcock at the previous election did f the same reason. ROMAN CATHOLICS IN TH PHILADELPHIA RING, Mayor Stokley distinctly disavowed all knowledge such organization, saying at the samo time that hi would prefer not to express apy opinion upon the sul Ject. The great majority of the Roman Catholics in thi city are democratic in their tendencies, but the mi: nority, many of whom are men of influence, wield power in thé “ring” which His Honor is powerless prevent, even were he so disposed. OTHER BLISSYULLY IGNORANT PERSONS. The City Treasurer ts unaware of the existence such an organization, Many of the leading republics liticians expressed themselves clearly upon the sub: Jeo, denying all knowledge of the society, quite number believing that it was a ‘‘set up,’’ to use # com-| heard of the Order, A the Union League had result, 80 far as discover {ng any membership in that circle. DISCUSSION AND SPECULATION IN PITTSBURG—4 THE MASONS AND THE CATHOLICS, Prerssura, Pa, Dec. 21, 1875. Especially in journalistic ard political circles the ex» posé in the Henan of to-day of @ secret organization, kkpown 4s the Order of the American Union, was th oceasion of no little discussion and speculation, Thi conclusion arrived at in almost every instance is that! such @ secret political organization exists at all it is confined exclusively to certain districts in the East, ant has not that widespread circulation and influence im | the West claimed for it After careful inquiry ay | persons who should be cognizant of the existence o! any such society in this end of the State the conclusion was reached that outside of tho Protestant Associationt there is no organized body hostile to the Catholic clergy or laity and in the interest, body and soul, of the pres- ent administration. + POSTMASTER NEGLEY never heard tell of the Order of the American Union,. and, though a member of several secrot Orders, they were utterly and entirely free from the mixture of ro~ ligion with ‘politics, He-did not believe any one tn his employ had connection in any way or form with such society, Collector of Customs Steel said he had n faith in such an organization, and, though he held Nitical !tion, it was not at the sacrifice of his man ood, © had no intimate friend connected with ‘an: political or religious secret Order, and was sanguin that there was no Order of the American Union in tb city of Pittsburg. He believed religion and politi should be separate and distinct, for the sake of th happiness and Prosperity of the country. G, 0. Shidi ul | e Scottish Rites in Masonry, and member of ott secret bodies, never heard of the Order of the Ameri Union, THB MASONS OF PITTSBURG have introduced many Catholics and welcome them the ranks of the Order the same as pergons from an, other denomination, John Robinsod, Post Gran Sachem of the Order of Red Men and representative 0! the Great Council of the United States, had no knowl. edge of such an Order in this end of the State, and wa: conversant with nearly all the secret Orders. Your correspondent had a conversation this afternoon with representative workingman, who holds a position nearly all of the workingmen’s societies. The Junior, Sons of '76 was the only Order hereabouts that wi spreading, bat this was purely in the interest of thi workingmen and had mo connection with religion o1 politics. ORIGIN OF THE KNOW NOTHING MOVEMENT IMi CINCINNATI—ITS OBJECT A THIRD TERM FOR GRANT—CATHOLIO OPINION OF THE ‘‘OVER< SHADOWING ISSUE”—METHODISTS DIVIDED. Crvommatt, Dec. 21, 1875. Your representative to-day interviewed R. H. Stow phenson, Surveyor of this port; Gustav R, Wahle, Post- master; W. M, Ampt, ex-County Prosecuting Attorney; Julius BlackBurn, ex-Clerk of the Common Council. Dr. Clendenin, ex-Health Officer, all republicans, an Mayor Johnston, democrat, concerning the exposé im this day’s Hunacp of the Secret American Union- None of them knew of such organization having a branch in this city. INITIATION OF THR MOVEMENT. Such a movement was, however, tnitiated in the First’ ward of this city during the crusade excitement. At a meeting of the Crusaders’ Club, where 800 members were present, John J. Hooker, a promi< nent republican politician and member of the club, moved to turn the erganization into a Know Notning Order, After much discussion the motion prevailed, and those epposed were invited to withdraw from the meeting. Subsequently the Order’ was changed to an anti-Catholic erganization, an as such still exists. There are minor prganizations o| ‘the same character in nearly every one of the twenty- five wards of the city. KNOW SOTHINGISM AND THE THIRD TERM In Cleveland the organization is said to number 10,000 inembers, and minor cities in the State all hava their lodges. The movement gained great hoa in the recent Allen-Hayes campaign, when tha school question became a prominent issue. ' The object is the revival of Know Nothingism through the con tinuance of President Grant in power. Beveral weeks ago @ young theological student named Taylor can~- vassod the city for members, stating that the initiation feo was $1. THE OVERSHADOWING ISSUE. Father J. F. ©. Callaghan, editor of the Catholic Tele- aph, said the Hnnato bad struck the Keynote of they Fresidential campaign, in which the overshadowing issue would be founded on the warfare on Catholicism. ! He knew that an American Union existed and that the leading men of the administration were identified with, it He had seen a pamphiet issued trom beter eon! addressed to the league and stating the objects of thal organization. Grant’s Des Moines speech, his Messag and the letter of the apostate Catholi¢, ex-Speaker Blaine, to Mr, Foster, editor of the Newark Advertiser, indicated plainly THR CONPLICT IMPENDING. + a meeting of the Methodist Kpiscopal Union hera, yeSterday, an exciting discussion ensued on the presen< tation of the following :— Having read in the secular | cai an account of the [oh sag of a meeting of Methodist ministers lately: eld in the city of Boston relating to the nomination ot ni President Grant for a third term for the Presidency o! the United States, and having learned with regret that Bishop Gilbert Haven made himself especially promi-| nent in the matter, Resolved, That, without expressing any opinion om the third term movement, it is our deliberate judgment that our respected Bishop Haven and tho ministry o: the Boston meeting referred to were guilty of a very” we error by thus town committing themselves Sotore the people to political action in this matter. Resolved, That as ministers of the Methodist Epise pal Church we are unalterably opposed to any inter- ference by ecclesiastical bodies with the politics of the’ country, 4 SUBSTITUTE, A8 a substitute tho following was offered :— Resolved, That while we, a8 a body of ministers, de- cline to express an opinion in regard to the election off ‘a President for a third term, wo deeply deplore th course of Bishop Haven before the Boston Preachers’ meeting in suggesting the renomination of President: Grant "Resolved, That wo, as ministers of the Methodise Episcopal Church, are unalterably opposed to any inter ference by ecclesiastical bodies with tue partisan poli- tics of the country. DIVISION ON THR QUESTION, Discussign was then renewed, and a motion to indeflx nitely postpone action was lost by 141013. 4 mo to lay on the table was not beard, and amid great con~ fusion the meeting adjourned, They were plainly divided on the question. ¥ A RAP AT THE ‘A. 0. 5.” New Youn, Deo, 21, 1873, To tae Eprror or rum Hemacp:— As you have succeeded in exposing the objects the “0, AU." and the "0. U. A M.*, bow en) to be anti-Catholio societies, will you try and give to the public the objects of the “A. 0. H.,” who adm! bone to membership but Irish Roman Catholics, an also the 8% Patrick Mutual Alliance, both of which so-| ereties le our streets in numbers on St Patrick’s day? Don’t stop, Mr. bditor, Go on wit the good work. Yours, ANTI-TAMMANY, GRANT AND THE AMERICAN ORDER. To THe Eprron ov tHm CqMMERCIAL AD¥RRTISER :— This morning's Henacp has an imperfect exposé of the “Order of the American Unton,” in which tt stated tnat “National Deputy Edgar initiated Gram privately, also Postmaster General Jewell.” This hag | nota fact, nor, in the belief of the national officials, are either of the above gentlemen & member of thi Order, _ My individual opinion 1 that If those who not wish President Grant to ve re-elected do not cease their attacks on him for the position assumed in his! spite of whanau aif te frend of Pies LX: oombined ite of the allt 8 oF ee ee ene ae GEORGE F EDGAR! Naw Yow. No. 83 Park row, room 30, December 21, 1875,