The New York Herald Newspaper, August 21, 1873, Page 3

\ TE THIRD TERN Public and Professional Views of an American Casar. Herald Interviewers at the Foun- tains of General Opinion. EDITORIAL AUTHORITIES. Presidential Precedents Overridden and Defied. National Sentiment Subjugated to Wealthy Office-Holders. MAINE REPUBLICANS SPEAK. Echoes of Indignation from the Lumber Regions. OHIO STATESMEN. Political, Legal and Lay Opinions of the Purple and Sceptre. ILLINOIS IN THE RANKS. Eix-Senators and Independent Busi- ness Men on Public Safety. Grant’s Power of Securing a Renomination or Appointing a Successor, HOW STANDS THE SOUTH? Enlightened Sentiment of a Full-Blooded Virginian. Oentralization and Despotism No Worse Than a European Monarchy. Mr. McMaster, of the New York Free= man’s Journal. ‘ Of the very few editors of the religious weekly Rewspapers publishca in the city who have not Tushed away from thetr editorial rooms to the sea- wide or the Summer resort is Mr. McMaster, of the Freeman's Journal. Yesterday this gentleman ‘Was found by a reporter of the HERALD at his office, in Barclay street, all surrounded by newspapers $nd the usual encumbrances of an editor’s sanctum, “Mr. idcMaster,” said the reporter, “I have called upon you, as I have called upon editors of other feligious newspapers—or, rather, 1 have called at their offices, for 1 found very few who had not leit for a vacation—to ask if you will favor the HERALD with your views on Cmsarism, and the third term.” “Well, sir, Iam rather busy; but I don’t think it Meedful to defer this intervicw. I am very much of the same opinion as the Richmond editor, Mr. James A. Cowardin, of the Dispatch, an interview with whom appeared in the HERALD on Friday, I think. He said that ‘Even now we have all the tyranny and despotism of an empire, with the out- ‘ward forms and semblance of a republic.’ So that I really don’t think it makes mucn difference whether Grant has a third term or not.” “But, are you in favor of third terms, Mr. McMaster?” “No, Lam not. I am in favor of a term that shali extend for a lifetime, or so long as tue people shall be of an opinion that the President’s behavior ‘and policy fit him for the office. I believe that ‘would have been the case with Washington, but there were so many wanting the Presidency that it was needful to divide it into a four years term. * I think that the ‘one term’ cry of the Greeley cam- Was the greatest mistake that party made, they succeeded we should have had a reign of political demagogues. I say so, democrat though I am. “But would not a life term be likely to bring on the despotism that we fear?” “We have nowa despotism. The fact is, we are very much in the condition that was described by one of the French kings, A complaint was made ‘to him that a certain regiment was disposed to re- treat on the ficid of Latte, and he suggested that a mew umform should be given to them. The General snswered, ‘It is no matter what uniform they give stem, Shey will retreat all the same.’ So it is with this United States government. It is no matter ‘What you cailit; it’s the same government. In England the government is an aristocratic repub- lic, run by aristocrats; in this country the govern- Ment is virtually @ monarchy, run by corrupt politicians.’’ ‘ “But you don’t think it is possible for a Monarchy to be established in this country, Mr. McMaster ? “No, sir; not in our time, nor in that of our | children, or, perhaps, inany time. | think that a monarchy is opposed to the instincts; the educa- tion and the conviction of our peopie, and there- fore I think & mouarchy or an empire 15 im- possible in America. but so long as the people are given over to avarice and luxury, and value those more than the honor o! their country, or their po- a monarchy will ve practicaily in more or less the policy of all American adiiuistra- tions since Buchanan ignored the State riits of Texas in the horse-thief question. Since has been growing, and the civil war ha: More active than it was betore."” “Do you think that the people will suvmit to this’ Don’t you think that the danger that is now 80 clearly put beiore them will awaken to the prospective loss of their privileges 7” “The people of this country are moved by self- Interest, 1 think that the ‘Farmers’ Grange’ move- ment is the most important movement on the part of the people that this country has. I am of an opinion that it must lead to civil war. [tis a fight for existence on the bit of the producers against the monopoiists, and the monopolists must win. With Vanderbiit’s seventy millions in his pocket, ‘what is to prevent him trom winning? But it can- notlast. The reaction willcome. The day of re- ven; will surely come. The South sent the Northern roughs to Mexico to fight for them for the Weeisiog of slavery; but the same class {rom the North aiterwards went South and destroyed their cities, carried the ravages of war there and ruined the Southern people. You may Call a gov- ernment by whatever name you please—the gov- pwn is what the people choose to allow Dr. Crooks, of the Methodist. Dr. Crooks is the editor of the Methodist, a journal What has no oficial recognition by the Methoaist Church, but fs still a very influential paper among wat body of professing Christians. The Doctor was found in his editorial rooms, in Nassau street, by areporter of the HzkaLp, when the following conversation took place :— “What do you think, Doctor, about a third term for Grant?’ asked the reporter. “Weill, I don’s think that Grant desires a third term. I think that from all that we know of him be would be personally opposed to it." “But supposing the political party who fix the sandidates for the Presidency should desire to nominate him, and should press the nomination opon him as they did on the second term, what do think should be nis course then?” “{ do not think the people desire Grant for a third term, and | think, when the time comes, the people will make that pretty clear.” “But the veople don’t control these things, NEW YORK HERALD, THURSDAY, AUGUST 21, 1873—T wocvor, do they? Political alators of conven- tions, oftice-holders, and ike, do that for the ople, and the nominations at conventions are just what they desire, and not the people.” “The history of the last ten years does not show that. The people have had @ voice in that matter, and it has been a controlling voice. General Grant on his first term was certainly not the choice of the politicians; he was the choice of the peeple, in opposition to the candidate of the politicians. Lincoin was certainly not the candidate of the poli- ticians; he was the candidate of ihe people.” “Do not you think that the 65,000 oMice-holders can control the primaries and the conventions? And do not you think that they do exercise sul- ficient control to place in power whom they choose t”’ “I do not. The people have exercised their power, can exercise it, and will exercise it again, and Ido not think that {t will be in favor of Gen- eral Grant jor a third term.” “I was going to say, Doctor, great 1s your faith; but I will not say that, though I du admire your faith very much, Then, wita those views about the power of the peopie and their disposition to exercise it, you have no fear that ‘Cesarism’ is ly to develop itself in this country?” “None whatever, sir; the people, I am sure, will check that long before it becomes dangerous. ‘They are not disposed to give Granta third term, and therefore, even if he were disposed to abuse the powers of a third term, he will not have the anes todo it. My mind is quite made up about ae Doctor Crooks intimated so clearly that those Were his views, and that ne had nothing more to Say, that the reporter lett, satisfiea that the Doctor had delivered himseif of his true convictions, eu Dr. Curry, of the “Christian Advocate.” Dr. Curry, the editor of the Christian Advocate, the official organ of the Methodists, was busily at work in his editorial room, in the office of the Methodist Building in Broadway, when a reporter of the HERALD called upon him, Alter a short gen- eral conversation with the Doctor the reporter asked him whaf he thought about Grant’s third term and what the HaxaLp had designated “Cmsar- iam.” “Well,”? answered Dr. Curry, “I have been rather amused and interested with the course of the HERALD in reference to that question. I thought at first it wasa good piece of journalistic enter- prise, and that in a dull time for news the HERALD had been wise in its generation, Lately, however, I thought there was more in it than that, and 1 begin to think that the HERALD has precipitated the consideration of what might have been obliged to be thought about and decided about somewhat later. “Then you think Grant’s third term a proba- bility, Doctor 7” “No, This is what I think, and if I am going to be interviewed I should like to be ‘represented as saying what Ido say. I don’t mean to say that you gentlemen ever do make men say what they don’s say, but you have such an immense talent ior ex- pansion, for amplitying, for beautifying, for dress- Ing up, and such exhaustiess resources for literary embellishment, that when some of us come out of your hands belore the public we are so flattered by the presentation that we accept the offspring, though we may have very grave doubts as to the paternity. Now, I don’t want paruing of that sort. I am not @ politician, I am a Methodist minister and an editor. I am not of the republican party, except as one who stands outside of it and watches it, Therefore, what Ido say I want it to be fully understood as being what I did say.” “Would you like to preeeey yourself, Doctor, and write your views? The HERALD would be glad to put it in that form for you if you wish.” “No, itis scarcely worth while doing that. I was going to write about the subject myself, but the HERALD seems to be covering the ground so well that I think Ishall defer it. However, let me say what I have got to say about this and then we shall be through. First o1 all, then, I do not believe that General Grant has expressed any desire or is known to have said that he wished to be nominated fora third term. Second, I don’t think that the people, except those who are moved by personal purposes, would be glad to see Grant elected for a third term. Third, I feel certain that the republican party, or the party of the country, is not so poor tn good men, in eligible men for the Presidency, as to be obliged to take only one man as their candi- date. There are men,@ number of them, who are thoroughly fitted for the Presidency. I think it was all right to elect Gen- eral Grant a second time. I voted for nim. It has been the customary course, and was wise certainly in that instance. Fourth, I am strongly of the opinion that General Grant cannot afford, in view of the historical Teputation he bas obtained, to allow himself to be 80 used as to be put in nomination for athird term. Now, there are my views, It is all I want to say at present, and, indeed, it it is all that it is neediul to say Gtany time, O1 course there is a great deal may be said in the way of tion as to suitable and particular men to fill the Presidency, but we have three years belore us, and none of us can say what changes may occur, and these changes may Tecast and m our present views, Doctor Curry then quietly resumed his editorial work, and ag the reporter was passing into the doorway the Doctor’s parting words were, ‘‘Now, don’t make that too long—keep it down.” Sidney Howard Gay, Post. Mr. S. H. Gay was found intently absorbed in the preparation of. the editorial matter for the day’s Post, but upon the reporter’s declaring bis mission he was cordially received and asked to sit down. Mr. Gay began by saying that he did not wish it to be understood that he spoke as tne chief of the Evening Post, as he was only acting in that capa- city in the absence of Mr. Bryant and Mr. Godwin. “It is only possible for General Grant to expect to achieve the third term,’’ began Mr. Gay, “‘under the commotion of some great popular movement. ‘What that will be or what it could be is not worth while discussing. 1 am not sure, furthermore, that General Grant has the keenness of perception to see & great opportunity. He is neither an tintel- lectual man nor a statesman.” OFFICIAL PATRONAGE INADEQUATE TO THE TASK, “Do you believe that General Grant’s iriends are dey! enough to secure his election?” asked the ERALD man. “No, I certainly do not, I have no hesitation in Saying that he would have been deieated in the last election had the opposition been properly man- aged. Ihave not lost all faith in the hard, common sense of the people. I do not think that they would seriously tolerate any effort to renominate or re- eiect the President again. Charles Francis Adams as the notinee of the Cincinnati Convention would lave deieated Grant to @ certainty. As for the leaders of the republican party advocating tue third-term principle, 1 do not believe they wil sacrifice the ambitious hopes which several of them have already formed for the office. They are tired of having the dispensing of the offices second hand. The oifice-holders will not hold together tn such @ movement. It will be too unpopular to draw even all the present incumbents mito it.” GRANT WILL NOT TAKE IT. “Do you belicve that General Grant would accept @ renomination?” asked the reporter. “{ have no fear, as I said, of the third term trouble. Ido not believe that General Grant cares ior it, His re-election was to be regarded as an endorsement of his first term, I cannot see that a re-election would give any further endorsement. There never has been a case of a President serving more than eight years; and General rant is far jrom being the dipiomatist or the statesman to make such a@ thing possible now." of the Evening Ex-Speaker Gal Subject. The HERALD reporter called upon ex-Speaker Galusha A. Grow, at the Fifth Avenue Hotel, to see him upon the momentous issue of the day. On the card being sent to his room, Mr. Grow invited the reporter up. He was extended on his bed in room No, 203, and seemed as if the world was going very well with him, and he doing very well in the world. Being questioned on the subject of Cesarism, Mr. Grow said that for the past two years he had been down in Texas, where he had constructed 400 miles of the International and Northwestern Railroad, which was to cros® the State, and that in this period he been so much engrossea with his railroad cares that he had given very little thought to politics. “Still, Mr. Grow,” insisted the reporter, ‘as one of the old time politicians and one of our most prominent men, you must have some opinion on this subject, which just now is tne most vital sub- ject of the hour 7”? Mr. Grow—Well, I have no sympathy with Grant, and I think it ridiculous for a moment to suppose that he can be elected toa third term. We area strong democratic State and propose to show it at onr coming election for Governor—the firat we have held since the war. The present Governor ts one of the provisional fellows appointed in reconstruction times. We have no more love for him than we have for Grant. But my opivion is that it matters very little whether a President holds office for more than one term. He is a fifth wheel to a cart, and can’t really influence the destinies of the ntry. “quronres.—Then you bat ts just as lief see him tor six terms as for one mir Grow—I don’t say that; but I do say that if he were in for that time it would make no prac- tical difference. The instinct of our people would never permit that our President should seize the reins of power, and Grant won’t. But, as 1 said, I am not interested in this question, and would sooner give you any iniormation you want on rail- r ras blocked the road to any further questioning on the subject, and the reporter retired, FRENCH VIEWS ON THE SUBJECT. {From the Courrier des Etats Unia,] The Moniteur and Gauldis have comments on the Campaign which the HERALD has lately undertaken Qgainst what it calls Cesarism. Our great con- Vemporary has published on this subject a series articles full of highflown ideas. Ita argument has been that because no government has ever been obeyed with so little opposition as that of General Grant, the country was threatened, through its own acquiescence with a third election of the same President and the burial of American liberties under the throne of an Empercr. This argument, especially directed against the im- movable grasp upon the high public functions by & corrupt oligarchy, has been taken up with much zeal by the journals above-mentioned—one of which 1s inspired by the legitimists, while the other is owned by the Bonapartists—in order to make cabl- tal against republican institutions in general and against the Freucn Republic in particular. The following are the comments by the Gaulois:— Is not this new question, which hag arisen in America, a very curious event? The empire threatening to come back by the force of things, as royalty returned Holland after the three great Princes of Orange, who had moreover conquered national independence and humiliated Spain, the greatest Power of that Period ; 18 not this @ great fact, a portentous sign, showing the weakness of the Republic and destroy- ing the argument which has become commonplace in the mouths of our republicans, the, argument of the powerand prcsperity of the “great Republic.” And here is this “great Republic asking to ab- dicate in order to take refuge in the haven of unity and authority.” And the following are the expressions of the Moniteur :— While our republicans only see the salvation of France in the Republic, tno Dy peveta to the monarchy increase in the United States—that great Republic which we so often hold up as a model. It would be a very curious and very convincing event if the America federation should end in @ mon- archy, A traveller of great experience, Baron Hubner, formerly Minister of Austria, stated, two years ago, that this revolution is regarded by the Harliygl omg minds in the United States as inevit- le. In spite of the respect due the authority of a man so eminent and “liberal’?as Baron Hubner, we must warn our countrymen against premature conclusions, The empire is not yet “made” in the United States, and republican institutions have yes here some roots. We do not pretend to deny that there is @ certain number of monarehists on this side of the Atlantic. We believe even, as has been stated in the HERALD in the article in ques- tion, “that there are more than twenty citizens ready to offer the crown to General Grant.” But before those twenty citizens will have made prose- lytes enough to present to the world the example of the decadence of the ‘great Republic,” pos- terity will have had time to pronounce a jadgment far more decisive on the final impotence of all the monarchies, é MAINE VIEWS. Sidney Perham, Governor of Maine. MAINE, August 8, 1873, Your correspondent, in obedience to instruc tions, on Thursday called upon His Excellency, Sid- ney Perham, Governor of Maine, at the Executive office, and, in response to & request, was granted an audience of a few minutes, although the Gov- ernor’s time was very pressing. “Governor,” I said, “what is the condition of political parties in the State at the present time ? I suppose you are sanguine of carrying the State this Fall?” “Oh, certainly; we have no doubt of it.’ “py what majority ?” “About the usual majority we secured in pre- vious years. We had, however, last year about eighteen thousand majority, it being a Presiden- tial year. The usual majority for the republicans is about eleven thousand,” “Do you find any liberal republicans in the State??? “There are some, but they have no organization asaparty. In some counties they number quite largely, however.” “Then the contest will be a square one between republicans and democrats?” Exactly 80,’? “What do the Maine republicans think ofa third term ior Genara! Grant?’ asked the correspondent, “What are your views on the subject?” “I do not believe that they give the subject even aserious thought. Itisso absurd. We neither be- heve in it nor think that President Grant desires a re-election. His second election was a sufiicient endorsement, and with that he will be content. I do not learn that anybody, except the democrats, talk of such a thing, Certainly no man of sense for @ moment believes that the President wishes another term. “What is thought of the salary steal by the re- publicans “It is Very generally denounced in all quarters. Nobody seems to approve of it. Senator Hamlin has not profited by it, but some* of the Congress- men have, and } am told that Mr. Morrill has not returned his.” “Does the party have preening to say as to Gen- ing Grant's Partivipation in it, by approving the tll “No, they seem to say nothing upon his action in the premises; but the people are certainly bit- terly opposed to the measure.’’ “How about a constitutronal amendment debar- ring a President from filling the office more than one term? Are Maine republicans in favor of such @ measure 9? “<a es tHe the feeling seems to be in favor of having it as it is, so that if a President gives satisfaction they may re-elect him if they wish.” E. F. Pillsbary. Editor of the Maine Standard. Your correspondent had a long interview with E. F. Pillsbury, editor of the Maine Standard, and late democratic candidate for Governor, Mr. Pillsbury is a leading member of the Augusta Bar, and a forcible writer and farseeing politician. As he referred to other interesting combinations and intrigues of a local nature, as well as the third time scheme, I give the interview entire. WHAT GRANT'S VISIT MEANS. REPORTER—Mr. Pillsbury, I would like to have your views upon Cesarism and other exciting | Political questions, if you feel free to give them. Mr. PILLspcuRy—Certainly, if they be of any value. I will first speak of combinations in this State. You will recollect that Morrill was a candi- date in 1869 for re-election as Senator against Ham- lin, and he supposed Blaine was not opposed to his re-election, Hamlin made a@ fight for Morrill’s place, and got it by a defection of five Kennebec county men from Morrill. This defection was in- fluenced by Blaine. One of these men was Snell, the Washington Police Justice, who got that place as a reward for the defeat of Morrill. The plan be- tween Blaine and Hamlin was to shelve Morrill. Fes- senden had become unpopular on account of his vote on the impeachment of Johnson, and the intention was to elect Blaine in his place. Fessenden died, and Governor Chamberlain appointed Morrill to fill the vacancy. Blaine at that time was a candidate, but retired. Morrill was offered the appointment of Minister to St. James or a judgeship, with a view to get him out of Blaine’s way. He, however, declined, pre- ferring to remain at home, as his healtn was not good. Blaine has been aspiring to the Senate ever since. Hamlin’s term expires March 4, 1875. As Blaine and Morrill both live here, it is useless for Blaine to run against Hamlin; consequently there is no hope for the former except as successor of Morrill. The truth of the matter is he has been endeavoring to bring about the appointment of Morrill to a foreign missiof ora judgeship to cause & vacancy into which he can step. You may og if you please, and it is true, that the published re- porte of a desire on the part of Biaine to get him (cd @ppointed a chief justice or associate are correct. ReporTER—And do you, then, think that Blaine brought Grant here to aid him in that effort? Mr, PILLssuRY—I shouid say that was one of the reasons, RePoRTER—What are the others ? Mr. PILLSBURY—He wants to ingratiate himself into the President's confidence to aid him to suc- ceed Grant should he decline a renomination. RerorTeR—Think you that Morrill will accept the Chief Justiceship? Mr. PituspurY—I think he feels that, as his health ts poor and the duties of a Minister or Judge are more arduous than those of a senator, it would be better to remain in his present position, and he will not resign except under great pressure. In that event Blaine has no chance tor the Senate. Mr. Pillsbury stated that in tue next Senatorial battle Perham and Hamlin would be the leading gladiators, with J. H. Drummond, of Portiand, as a third candidate. Reronter—Now I wish to speak of the third term, What do you think of ity 4s Grant likely to be a candidate? Mr. PILLsnoRY—My idea is that, unless there are such developments as to render his re-election very uncertain, he will be renominated. The moneyed interests now control the policy of the government. They are content with the present hog of the Secretary of the Treasury, as being st for their interests, and fear the election of any it in Cong gg the’entire policy. Under the present system the rich are cou- stantly becoming richer, while the poor are impov- erished. The money power of the country, arrayed with that of the office-noldera of tne government, is nearly omnipotent in controlling nominations. The masses, whose interests are in antagonism to the money power, are without organization—com- paratively powerless for aoe controlling eeucpses, conyentions party machinery, other man would RIPLE SHEET. Take the banks, for instance. If they want to con- trol,an election or convention they combine, while the est toilers are engaged in their eanyzares, the mills and the cornfields, and neglect the or- ization and control of party machinery; and ence the money power, with’ the vast army of office-holders, will virtually have a clear deld in the nomination. REPORTER—But is it not possible that the toning millions, now that they are being educated in & knowl that the money power of the Sopptrs is the car o! Suggernant that grinds them to the dust, may rise ns in their manhood, and, ignoring par- ties and old time-honored political associations, by individual ballots, thrown at the next election, sweep the monopolists | sf power? Mr. PiLispuRY—I sho! say it is, and the farmers’ movemen$ in the West gives great hope in that direction. It is indicative of a growing feeling of discontent among the peOnecing: classes and a realizing sense of the grinding effect of the resent financial system upon their interests, aud re may be, previous tothe next election, such an uprising of these combi producing interests as overthrow rings and monopolies of all kinds and knock the well-constructed pannhiness Af party politics into chaos, Uniess such an uprising takes place, iu my opinion Grant will be renominated and re-elected, REPORTRR—Then you are satisfled that Mr. Grant really aspires to a re-election 1n 1876 ? ¥. PILLSBURY—I have no doubt of it. You see a8 been twice elected. The second election he accepts as an cudorsement of his administration of the first term. One would think that that ought to satisly the most ambitious. But think tor a mo- ment what an immense thing it would -be to be chosen @ third time! And at such a period in our country’s history too! The election that year will occur on the centennial auntversary of our natural life. There will be gathered the representatives of all the crowned heads and republics of a world to witness the grandest event in the Listory of repub- lican government. Great as have been ‘the honors conierred upon Washington would they not pale before those of Grant, if that year saw him elected ag President for a third term of a nation that Washington founded one hundred years before? eee your deductions, Mr. Pills- Mr. PILLSBURY—Wait a moment. His election at sach an anepicions moment would be an event that would give him a power and a prestige that would lift him to @ throne and place a sceptre fn his grasp. REPORTER—Have you an opinion as to his aspira- tions to reach that pinnacle of power—to wear the nape t, PILLEBURY—I do not know as I have any de- clded opinion as to his paring. any such present purpose or desire, but he is ev! Fiontly @n ambitious Tnan. The instances, as I read history, are few where @ crown has been refused when tendered, or placed within the easy grasp of an aspirant; and t am not aware of anything in Grant’s past life to lead me to suppose he would decline any important position of honor or profit, Hence I should dread the re- sult, if the opportunity presented ttself to him, on the beginning of the second century ot our history, na on the purple and Wit up the sceptre of a Charles E. Nash, of the Kennebec Journal. I called a few days ago upon Mr. Charles E. Nash, of the Kennebec Journal, the home organ of Speaker Blaine, ana had the following interview upon the salary grab, third term, and the combina- tions in this State both for Senator and to make Blaine the successor of President Grant :— REPORTER—Mr. Nash, can you give me your views upon some political questions now attracting attention in this State and the nation? Mr. Nasu—Certainly, sir. REPORTER—Well, to commence, has the visit of the President here any significance ? I understand that there is machinery at work to oust Hamlin at the end of his present term. Mr, Nast—Governor Perham has been three years an aspirant for Hamlin’s place in 1875, but Hamlin will be elected. There is a little interest already taken in the matter,as the respective friends of Pernam and Hamlin will try to elect men in their interest to the General Assembly that selects. RevorTer—Is Blaine out of therace? ~~ Mr. Nasu—Yes, he is lying low for his oppor- tunity. Rerorter—Which means, I suppose, a nomina- tion for the Presidency ? Mr. NasH—Yes, he aspires to the nomination, If the election took place next year the chances are that he would stand weil, but it is so far distant that there is plenty of ume for all the opposition “elements to combine against him. My impression is that the HERALD is not favorable to him. In the Senatorial contest Blaine’s sympathics would be with Hamlin. ? REPoRTER—What fs the feeling of the republican Party about the salary steal? Mr, NasH—There ia aly one sentiment. We feel like the — to have Lot Morrill caught in it. Lot is an honest man. He is much more so than the average politician, and his friends here feel very badiy that he should get his foot init. He wus really instructed by the Senate to vote forit. He voted in committee against it all through, but when ordered to report the result of the Confer- ence Committee ack to the Senate as chairman, tbe question was on the adop- tion of the report. ‘He could not vote “no’ without Killing the whole 2 tt bill, to which the salary steal was tacked on. You cannot make these Maine countrymen understand the Crédit Mobilter jobs, but they do understand that these grabbers voted to take $5,000 cash out of the Treasury ahd they very generally condemn them. REPORTER—If they condemn their representa- tives for the steal have they no wora of censure for the President, whose veto would have pre- vented it? Mr. NasH—The resolutions of the Republican Convention were strong. They condemned the whole thing, but did not particularize the Prest- dent. The people here admire Blaine, but love Lot—that is the aifference between the two men. Rerorter—Then they have nothing to say against Grant's course, and would vote for bim tor @ third term, think you? Mr. Nasu—There is deep rooted in the minds of the people a blind confidence that Grant 1s a goo President. He has been abused so much that 1 don’t hart him, and he always comes out right end up from every attack, consequently they don’t dwell upon the third term question. Indeed, it is not at all discussed in the State except by the democrats, Rerortkr—Do you think Grant meditates o second revomination ? Mr. Nasi:--I have no doubt but that he is in favor of Blaine as his successor, but do not think it has been mentioned during this visit. If Blaine was a cangidate I have no doubt he would have the sup- per of the President and all the republicans in thi State. Even democrats would support him, KEPORTER—Would they be in favor of a consti- tutional amendment iimiting the time to‘one term? Mr. Nasu—If they had a President like Andy Johnson they would be for it. Now that they have one that gives general satistaction they are satis- fied to let well encugh alone. OHIO OPINIONS. Cc. Thew Wright. CINCINNATI, August 8, 1873, ‘This gentleman is known as an acute thinker, a good lawyer and a very retiring gentleman, although as @ liberal republican and third party man his name and utterances have been quite often before the public of late. He was taken on the wing, and here is the result :— * HERALD ReporTteR—Have you any objection, Mr. Wright, to talking politics for a little? Mr. WRIGHT—None in the world; though I do not know that I can give any new views to any one, HERALD REPORTER—Please state what your ideas of Casarism are in regard to President Grant? Mr. Wricut—If Grant be your Cwxsar he is well named in some respects, Perhaps the Roman was as great @ soldier; may be as great a statesman; but I think he did not surpass our Chief Magistrate in capacity for entertaining a good opinion of hin- self. The great Caesar was ambitious; so is the little one. The great Cwsar refused the crown, though he wanted it nevertheless. Our little one has not been in the habit of declining anything and generally contrives to get what he wants. HERALD REPORTER—De you really think Grant would accept a third term? Mr. WaiautT—I have not heard of the American citizen who is eager to refuse the Presidency, Washington and Jefferson did, but we are now talking about Grant, HgRALD ReporTeR—You don’t seem to think highly of the Chief Magistrate? Mr. WRIGHT—As much as he deserves, Every- body was grateful to him for bringing the war to a close, and he has been so often told that he saved the country that he believes it, and beiieves he has aright to appropriate it to his own uses, and for four years he has been nis, it. Ihave no doubt oreo he thinks a t rm is not more than js due. HeRALD REPORTER—Do you think the republican party would nominate him again? Mr WRIGHT—RKepubdlican party! He owns it. Ask & republican the first question of the West- minister catechism—“What is the chief end of man?’ and he will tell you, “To glorify Grant and to enjoy him for ever.” “They woald not dare to re- fuse him @ nomination. If there were any signs of a earcaine he would take the head of every federal officer in the country and make a regular St. Bartholomew massacre of it. HgRaLD RerorreER—Well, what harm would there be if he were re-elected? Mr. WRIGHT—I believe it would be the greatest mity that ceuld happen to the country. The ident Is the head of the concern, and if the boss not conscientious there is not a joumesman in the ja shop that will not be a rascal. Oo a mnili- ariny-on "despotic “principles. "elleve inciples. eve him to be utterly and it and such # map Fecouuizes no rights im others. Ie is said he “set up” Lowmmus wt tne iast election 80 that if its vote was necessary to him it would be forthcoming, and now he dare not back on the Kellogg party, with whom he made tie bargain, fear they might biow on him, Louisiana a lovely instance of free institutions. Another elec- tion would aed him in believing that the people endorsed Crédit Mobilier, salary grab, Oakes Ames, Pomeroy, Colfa: Pe private larceny aud publie high! 'y: Judge J. B. Stallo is one of thinkingest Germans in Ohio. He wanted to be considered out, but finally agreed to state his views on the subject, without entering into any conversation, Said he:— “Grant does not stand one chance in a thousand for renomination; but, even if he should be nomi- nated, he could not be elected. } It 13 an inveterate tradition of Americans that no man shall serve longer in the Presidency than George Washington. With regard to Cwsariam, it could not be got without an entire change in the celiular tissue of the whole nation, Its whole body of traditions, all its habits and modes of thought would have to un- dergo a complete metamorphosis. Even a majority of the whole bods. of voters could not of set RarDoee, convert this country into ® monarchy. The guarantees for the perpetuity of republican in- stitations are, fortunately, more reliable than the purposes of politicians. They are the unconscious agencies controlling our whole society. Lregard Cwsarism in America as an utter impossibility.” Quite differently did the next gentleman I called upon construe the signs of the tines, Jadge M. W. Oliver is a life-long democrat and a close observer or events, He will be one of the active workers in | the third party campaign this Fall, He said:— “Ihave no doubt that within the last decade there has been a strong tendency in the direction of Cresarism, as you choose to call it, although per- sonally I have no fears, at least for a generation or two, of it amounting to anything. The history, education and institutions of the American people have built up a habit of thought and mina in the great mass of the people to such an extent that they could not be prepared for the toleration of PAU ela towards imperialism short of a generation or two as preparative, even under the Tost favorable circumstances. Yet it should not be forgotten that there is much truth in the old saying that eternal vigilance is the price of lib- erty. The imperial tendencies of the last eight years may justly arouse to increased activity and ‘watchfulness the true friends of republican institu- tions, aud your journal does well to sound the note of warming.” ° Opinions of Potent Little Men. T have had several conversations with little men of both parties—men not filling any noticeable space in the public eye, and yet not less worthy of regard as thinkers on! that account, and I have gathered enough to warrant tho assertion that “the man on the horse” is not regarded as so much of an tmpossibility as the interviews above would seem to indicate, I was struck with the remark of one gentleman tdentified with journalism and yet not publicly recognized as a journalist. He had been reading the HEgRALD articles, and when I broached the subject he burst out almost angrily with :—“I wish to God we had a despotism here to make this miserable people appreciate liberty. I am sometimes ready to arraign the Almighty for not wiping out the cowardly, sneaking, selfish creatures who curse this land with their very ex-,] istence.”” This ebullition over he talked a little about the main subject, and virtually admitted that he doubted somewhat whether the people would struggle very vigorously against the encroachments of a centralized power. He seemed to think that the prospect of plenty and having re: lief from all kinds of public responsibility would act as a bolus for the loss of national liverty. Among other unnoted persons I talked with a Kentuckian who served throughout the war in the Unton army, an ofiicer, who was near enough Grant to observe his habits of mind and form a pretty cor- rect judgement of his character, He was of opinion that Grant would not scruple much to seize the reins of government wit mailed hand and ride over the liberties of tie people, yet he could notsee the way clear for that sort of thing; ‘‘but,” ne added, “let him try it just once, and, God damn him, he will die im his boots, sir, or any other man, sir, who would dare to attempt it.” 1 have only one observation to make on what I have gathered and here present, and that is on Mr. Halstead’s idea of Grant naming Phil Sheridan as his successor, and that I shall put in the form of a question:—Grant not succeeding himself, what else is it than American Cesarism when he can name as his successor a member of his military family—a supporter of the Graut dynasty? THE LIGHTS OF ILLINOIS. Ex-Senator Doolittle. CHICAGO, August 8, 1873. The HERALD correspondent met Mr. Doolittle, ex-Senator from Wisconsin, who, while retaining his residence at Racine, Wis., is a practitioner on a large scale in our State and federal Courts, The taik on the interesting topic which 1s the occasion of this article was held in the open air, was deliv- ered after the manner of the peripatetic philoso- pher, and, measured by the actual ground gotten over, was four blocks in duration. “I have not been" able to follow the IRatp’s discussion of Casarism,” said the ex-Senator, “but am satisfied that there is grave peril in the posst- bility of Grant’s election for a third term. There is nothing in the constitution to prevent his tak- ing it; but it would be in violation of a safe and time-honored precedent. The cry is now, ‘if the people choose hit, it is the people’s matter ;’ but THERE IS THE DANGER. Republics have lost their liberty most frequently by the imsidious ambition of a plausible hero. The farce of an election was continued in Rome long after Omsar had become absolute in power, and Was maintained even after the Empire was firmly established under Augustus, There is grave danger in the tendency to centralization in government (a tendency fostered by a military education), just as there is peril in the concentration of capital for the purpose of mere money making. I would have no fear of Grant’s election to a third term if the opposttion could be concentrated, but there is the trouble. In 1872 Grant might have been defeated, and there would have been no occasion for THE DISCUSSION OF CAESARISM, as itis called, but the opposing elements were not properly crystaitzed. Davis should have been nominated at Cincinnati, He would have carried Titnols by 40,000 majority; his popularity would have been perceptible in Indiana, and the general result wouid have been different. It was too much to expect that democrats would vote for a life-long opponent.” Ex-Senator Lyman Trumbull. Judge Lyman Trumbull, ex-United States Sena- tor, is a man of national celebrity. Retired from the warfare of politics, 1or the present, he now pursues the arduous avocation of a lawyer in McCormick’s block, in North Clarke street. Your correspondent thought that a visit to the old statesman might not come amiss, Trumbull was idolized in Illinois up to the time of Andrew John. sou’s attempted impeachment. The radical ele- ment of the republican party here could not stomach his back down on that occasion, and still less his support of Horace Greeley last Fall. Therefore the Senator retired from the forum of the Union under a cloud which, however, was not dark enough to shut out his great latest and former services from public view. Judge Trumbull is beginning to feel the weight of years, and his ever-thoughtful brow is now inter- Bected with a network of toil-won wrinkles. He looks weary, and, no doubt, feels so. He welcomed the HERALD representative with that peculiar bon homnde which public men acquire from habit, necessity, or both, He said:—“You're for the HEKALD, That’senougb. An interview recorded in that paper means that a man speaks to the Con- tinent. I don’t care about expressing my views, lhave been so long mixed in public affairs that I cannot touch them without running the risk of being drawn into the vortex of discussion. Now thatt have settied peaceably down to practice my profession, it would be UNPLEASANT FOR MB TO DISCUSS GENERAL GRANT personally, and I don’t want to enter on national politics. I don't want it to be understood, how- ever, that I have lost all interest in the weliare of the country. On the contrary, I feel deeply in- terested in everything that involves it. Ihave no objection to saying that candidacy for a third Presidential term would be entirely without prece- dent. Tne HeRALD will understand my reasons for ee to be Ge ae upon this matter. 1 am so for the sake of quiet, which I much need, and which I intend to have and to hold.” The ex-Senator gave a weary sigh and relapsed into the perusal of @ very formidable looking legal document, Hon. Leonard Swett is one of Chicago’s most distinguished lawyers. He was Lincoln's intimate friend, and, beyond being @ little stouter and somewhat more regular in fea- tures, bears a strong personal resembiance to that well-remembered Father of his Country. Mr. Swett used to be arepublican, out and out, but latterly bis political views have been modified, and he is evidently whirfing around the verge of the party of the future, whatever that may be. Your corréspondent found Mr. Swett in good talking humor, CORRESPONDENT—Mr. Swett, you have been read ing the HERALD on Cwesarism * Do you agree with ita estimate of General Grant and his followers ? Mr. Swert—I think Grant is just ag good @ repub- ie pk Mean candidate as any ower. 1 don’t see any safer one they can pick up; but this country will grow suspicious and kick the whole thing over the first rtupit I shouldn’t think Grant would like 2) to try it. He will have nad enough of public honor by the time his termis.out, There is nothing im the constitution to hinder his running again, but the matter would be without a parallel in our history, Grant hasn’t enough dash in him for'a coup @état, Anything he may do will be done Lael Pigs The “party,” or rather that portion it which clusters around the Presidential chair, will do most of the dirty worr. I think the curse of the country is the too frequent recurrence of elections, CoRKRESPONDENT—Don't you think that a third accession to power would increase the corruption of the Grant administration? Mr. Sweir—Undoubtedly corruption would grow apace. I fear it is growing apace. In monarchies the danger of getting into the hands of adven« turers is Not so great, because there rank {@ privi« leged. Under our system—better, if properly con~ ducted—the facilities for overthrowing the imatitue tions of the country are far greater. In my opite ion there 1# only one cure for the evil—have ONE LONG TERM FOR PRESUDENT, say ten years, and let that end it, 1t would core respondingly lengthen the term of service tor State Governors, In this way the frequency and corrup- ton of elections would be done away with, I ean. hot think of any other rational remedy. [1 ever the country be stirred up in this question of “Cm sarism,”’ which the HERALD has been go ably dis, cussing, Grant can have no chance; he will nothing short of mad if he attempta, even for thd sake of gratifying his personal clique, to brave tha panes opinion of the United States, which cam rdly fall to be against continuance in office, Hon. Thomas Hoyne was the next person interviewed, Mr. Hoyne is q democrat of old standing, and socially, as well ad politically, is @ man of considerable influence, Ha has Irish blood in him, and despite his flity years iq stately and handsome as some men of thirty. Mr< Hoyne had no hesitation in telling the HERA correspondent what he thougit of ‘‘Cesarism.” It was something like the following, he re« marked :— “The country cannet last as a@ republic fo) twenty-five years longer if these Grants are goin; to hold the reins of government, Something mus! be.done, Ihave no doubt that the present incum-, bent is lookt for a third term, The HERA| 18 entirely right in the position which it has as. sumed. The corruption going on around us i@ simply discouraging. The thing must have end, Sir. ‘Casansm’ must be squelched if th Republic is to be saved. The HERALD is very Wely come to my opinion on that subject. Mr. Bernard @. Caulfield, ' avother lawyer of note, was also’approached ont the Cxsarism subject, Mr. Caulfield entirely coin cided with the views of the HERALD. He though¢ that the continuance of Grant in power would be tantamount to @ subversion of our democratia institutions. The precedent would be unwarrantd able, and he bad no donbt that Grant was entire! willing to make the precedent. He was surrounde: by a set of unscrupulous mon, who would not hesie\ tate at anything to retain themselves in power, | David A. Gage. Meeting upon the street the well-filled form and pleasant visage of Mr. David A. Gage, the Cityl Treasurer, who has revolutionized the office, By turning over the interest on deposits to the stron; box of the city instead of using it to line the pockets of hts pants withal, the HERALD correspond< ent broached the third term topic. Mr. Gage’s re< marks upon the subject were brief and pithy. “Grant,” said he, ‘4s the only available candidate o! the republican party. Let them drop him, and tht ary, goes to pleces—a sad prospect for the place- jolders, In order to secure a further lease pom office they may insist upon his taking @ thir nomination, and—well—weil, parvrcen: Fou and mw and that disinterested party, the bedpost, Grant will destroy the consistency of his record’ if he doesn’t take it,’? Joseph K. C. Forest. Perhaps no citizen of Illinois has been longer, identified with politics in this State than Joseph K. C, Forest, an adventurous Irish gentleman from Cork, who left the old country about thirty-five years ago, and has during most of that period re- sided in Chicago. We knows everybody and is known by almost everybody. He is on intimate: terms with the leading men of the country, and 19! at present an assoctate editor of the Inter-Ocean, the republican morning organ, published in thia city under the auspices of Jonathan Young’) Scammon, @ very woll abused citizen. Mr. Forest, who is quite genial, om being approached by the HeRa.p correspondent,! opened his mind fully on the question of Creshrism.) Said he:—Cwsarism, or centralization, whicheve! you may Call it, ts a necessity of the age. We mayi as Well have Grant a8 any one else, The govern~ ment must stand between THE MASSES AND THE MONOPOLIES who are preying upon them. The tendency of everything in this Republic now is to centralize—ta become autocratic. Witness your railroad com- panies, your great manufacturing corporations, your large commercial houses, Have they not in- Stituted a system of grinding their employés equal to the practises of the worst despotism in Europe or elsewhere? Very weil. How are we to regulate this thing? By a strong government. The people, lett to themseives, cannot do it. The monopolists are too strong. Our ideal Republic ts going to ieces and the fragments are, of necessity, tend- ing toward Cwsarism. There are three phases of human government—the ideal, the intellectual and the physical or materialistic. France and the Latin nations were representatives of the first type. Where are they now’ Js MacMahon any less Cwsar than was the Third Napoleon? Was Thiers, with all his fine theories, less so than either? I tell you that all civilization must end with the sword., ENGLAND REPRESENTED THE INTELLECTUAL TYPB OF LIBERTY, Under Elizabeth she broke off from the feudal’ system, and her race of great minds—Bacon and the rest—sprang into life. The philosophers of our, own time hardly do more than se upon their: original ideas. But, even this must have an end. America has been attempting it. She, too, mus® ultimately fail, ‘The cast-iron influence of Ger- many is abro: The Germans have built an Em- pire which has no god but force, to which every- thing must bow. They have reduced the science of government to brute strength, and while they keep their swords sharp und their chains strong re- publicans must give way in Europe, I LOOK FOR A DESPOTISM HERE. The German element has great power, and the blood of the Pigrims has a tendency toward strong overnment of a certain order, because they be- lieve that there is safety init. Now the fariners are making a struggle jor their rights, and, takin, advantage of that, General Grant can be electe President in despite of any mere party position. For my part I am in favor of having . He is better than a more brilliant man would be for the office, and, no doubt, he will seek for election, and I think he will succeed.” General I. N. Stiles, City Attorney, was also interviewed. In reply to the necessary interrogations he said:—“Grant hkea his place and will hold on to it to the last, Whea he comes to this eity he usually goes into some place where stories are told and good wine drunk, instead of associating himself with the steadier and most respectable class of citizens. He likes to be ‘dead-headed,’ ‘chalked’ and shown around—in short, to have a good time. He never says anything because he don’t know any- thing. He couldn't make a coherent Pty ot ten lines if he_ tried. He's ply @ man of accident, raised upon the tide of fortune— the luckiest dull man that America has produced. A8 an Executive he is acypher and is run by Morton and his particular clique. He'd be a Cromwell or @ Napoleon if he possessed @ tithe of the genius of either of those great men. As regards Grant, per- sonally, the country is safe; but his ‘friends? make the danger, and he is in their hands. I agreo With the HERALD’s estimate of the political out- look. The country wili have to cry, ‘Save us from the irtends of U. 5. Grant)” SOUTHERN VIEWS. Judge Ould, of the Exchange Commis- sion, On Our Imperial Tendencies. RICHMOND, Va., August 16, 1873. To-day I called upon Judge Robert Ould, for the purpose of obtaining his views on “Cwsarism.” I found him in his law office, over the banking house of Lancaster’ & Co., with his partuer, Colonel Car~ rington, both of them engaged in the transaction: of legal business, In the able and conservative statement of opinion from @ Southern standpoint made by Judge Ould the readers of the HERALD will see the ample vindication or tne exalted reps tation which that gentleman has in Virginia. At the North he 1s, probably, best remembered for his connection with the Bureau for the Exchange of Prisoners of the late Con- federacy. In that capacity the Judge wrote many able letters in reply oO communica. tions from the Federal Commisioner of Exchange, and in his letters upon this subject the confeders ates rest their argumeats upon the questions of the exchange and treatment of prisoners during the war. JUDGE OULD'S OPINTONS. After stating the object of my visit, and the Judge having expressed his willingness to be in CONTINUED ON TENTH PAGE,