The New York Herald Newspaper, August 15, 1873, Page 2

“DES OF MARCH. Ideas of the Nation Reflected by Its Leading Men. THE ARISTOCRACY OF THE QUILL Opinions of Moulders of Opinion on Ca- sarism and its Consequences. —-—___ EDITORS’ PRIVATE VIEWS. No Pent-Up Utica Contracts Edi- torial Powers for This Oc- casion Only. THE WEST AWAKE. Shrewd Writers on Politics in the Gar- den States Unbosom Themselves. SOUTHRONS RAMPANT AND READY. Richmond Editors Rather Pleased with the Idea of an Emperor. AMERICANS WITH THEIR BACKS UP. The Folly of a Set of Small Consjirators Bucking Against Uncle Sam. ———+- NEW YORK OBSERVANT. The Journalists of the Metrop- olis on Cesar and His Friends. PUBLIC OPINION REFLECTED Party Journalists and Independent Writers in Private Oonfab. A General Review of Public Sentiment in | the United States on Casarism. Whether there exists in the mind of the illus- trious soldier-President of the United States a de- sire to again test the gratitude of his countrymen | in acontest for the Executive chair, or whether the persons about hii, fat with patronage and eager for tederal pickings, entertain ideas hostile to our simple republican government, are ques- tions more often asked than answered. The HERALD’s articles on Cwsarism, or the dangers of a general acquiescence in a Presidential ownership, have certainiy awakened widezpread attention, The press of the country has already spoken—the independent press plainly, the party press with the reserve or the warmth required Jor par are poses. The HERALD has copied these com! ts. To-day we publisn in the agreeable form of inter- views the opinions of the editors of the leading papers of the country en the subject of Cesarism and a third term for General Grant, and thus re- Nect, in the broadest sense of the term, pubiic opinion. Views of Mr. George Jones, of the New York Times. A HERALD reporter, detailed to ascertain the views of the editors of the metropolitan journals, first called upon Mr. George Jones, of the Timea. Mr. Jones very frankly expressed his views on the subject. The followiug was the conversation :— Reerorter—Is there anything, Mr. Jones, that leads you to suppose that the republican party meditates running General Grant fora third term ? Mr. Jones—Nothing whatever, There has been no expression from the party that should lead to such conclusion, Why there are over three years to consider the matter. Whatis in the womb of the future time alone can reveal. We might as well try to ix what kind of weather we shall have this time three years hence. The Lord only knows what may happen in politics before the next Na- tional Convention mee‘s, REPORTER—Have you read the editorials in the Henatp touching the subject of a third term for President Grant? Mr. Jones—Yes, They are ably written, and I should give tiem mere consideration but tor two things; the weather is so hot and they seein to be a long way in advance of the time. RePoRTER—AS the conductor of a newspaper, with sources of information at your command which the ordinary run of people do not possess, dv you not believe that the party which supports President Grant is at present secretly plotting nis nomination FOR A THIRD TER ? Mr. Jonns—To that I would not return a decided negative, jorit isonly natural to suppose @ great many of those who hold positions in the govern- Ment by the favor o! the President don’t care a but- ton if he remained President forever if they can only retain their places. But I cannot agree to the idea that there is any secret understanding in the party to urge a second renomination, Rerortsk—Have you no reason to suspect that the President's prime ministers, Senators Conkling and Morton, will control him in this matter and Sypceed in making him accept of a third term ¥ Tr, JONES—No, no, The President is not so eaMily controlled, aad if he desired to run for an- other term he is shrewd enough to see that the surest way to defeat him is to sow any anxiety or wish Lo be re-elected a second time. Rerorrer—You are acquainted with Pre: Grant sufficiently well to say if you think him bie of designing tne overthrow of this government and the establishment of Casarism. Mr. Jones—Tiis much I know of the President, that there never was one in the Executive chair who exercised so little of the power placed at his command. We find fault with him for not exer- cising more. He allows everybody else to act the full measure of his respective administration, but he alone never puts forth the strength of his prerogative. That hardly looks like AMBITION OR CABSARISM. A word from him couid remove @ dozen men in office who are no credit to the party nor the government; but he bates to make the least stretch of bis sashority, partly from the disposition I ident | of the man, and partly e he dislikes the ex- ercise of anytl that loo! yatocratic. REPORTER—! ’t you thimk, under such circum- stances, he ought to show some inclination to encourage ctvil service reform ? oe Mr. Jongs—I know be is anxious for civil service reform, and 1am convinced within the next three oe you will see him oe the thing forward as fat a6 he can. The ident is not Cg A his party on this question as he ought to be. ‘Wants no other term after this, and he can have pg in id delay the practical establlehi jr ittioat tina which is the crying RTER—W ill it be safe to conclude that if the Foe tent, nestecta etvi service within the coming not o1 corrupt You hint at to remain in office, yout conuintes ‘rom otives to aDuoINs still more, that e third it of NEW YORK HERALD, FRIDAY, AUGUST 15, 1873—WITH SUPPLEMENT. term is im his eye and Oxsarism not along way beyond? a = TOO MUCH FAITH IN GRNRRAL GRANT. Mr. Jonzs—I have too much faith in President Grant for that. I know he would rather be weil entiy with nis duty 0 the counkey and” tbe BaFky ently wi jut country an who elected him? On his farm in Missourt he Would feel much happier than surrounded in the White House with all he splendors of imperialism, Then you: ought to bear in mind that, allowing vhe force of President Grant's popsinay party love is fekle, and he who is the idol to-aay may be the hated one to-morrow. President Grant may, Bt committing the slightest blunder, do some a allenate from hii REPORTER—Not President contemplates e.ther a third term ora coup d'état against the liverties of bis country, do you “per he Bs Cone tr we aahe might tor the ace and prosperity of the natio vere Jowns—Undoubiediy, Whatever his blunders they have been these incidental to & non-acquaint- ance with the ways of politics and civil lie. Ii he wanted to he might have made himself felt more thanever Andrew Jackson was felt, and without making one step beyond the constitution as it now stands, And that was the end of the interview. large share ol his supporters. Mr. Oswald Ottendorfer, of the New Yorker Staats Zeitung. A HeRaxp reporter called on Mr. Oswald Ottendorfer to ascertain his views on Owsarism and the proposed renomination of General Grant (for a third term, Mr. Ottendorfer was In his private office in the new building of the New Yorker Staats Zeitung. He said he would gladly talk with the reporter, and the following conversa- tion was held in German :— RerorTsR—What do you think of the proposed renomination of General Grant for a third term? Mr. OrrgnpoRFER—I think the present leaders of ve republican party greatly desire to leave things as they are. They would undoubtedly do in 1876 what they did in 1872, in order wo keep the republl- can party in power. Of course, their intention must not be regarded in the light of absolute cer- tainties. A great many events might occur which would impel them to abandon this plan and to favor the nomination of another candidate. ReEPorTEeR—In case their counsels should prevail, do you think that General Grant will be renom- inated simply by force of his merits ? Mr. OTTENDORFER—I have been always of the opinion that he was not elected by force OF HIS INDIVIDUAL MERITS, but in recognition of the great national events of which he was the leading representative. Had tne last issue been on his individual merits he would not have been elected. I think most pcople favored him for the second term because he was the “lesser evil of the two.’ These peculiar cir- cumstances we may have again to encounter, but itis to be hoped that a man will be found at any rate who is better able to cope with the exigencies ofthe times. REPORTER—Do you think it probable that hia re- nomination could be effected ? Mr. OrrenpORFER—If he really meang ‘to run’’ fora third term, there is no doubt that the power of the administration would have avery great in- fluence. This power, cleverly used, ought to be sufficient to compel his nemination. 1, neverthe- less, believe that our American politicians have too exaggerated ideas about the power of patronage. I think the people will prefer a good man who stands upon his merits to General Grant with all his patronage, and I think that such a man WILL HAVE A BETTER CHANCE to be elected. Take the city, tor instance, The power of the administration all over the country is certainly not 80 great as was the power of the Kung in this city, and see how they were swept awayinaday, Andi cortamly don’t think there ever will be politicians more skilful in the subtle iutricacies of poiltical tutrigues than were the members of the detunct Ring. REPORTER—What would be the general influence ofa third term ? Mr. OTTENDORFER—It would have a very bad in- fluence both abroad and at home, It is one of the imperative requirements of our comstitution and institutions to change the personnel of the various branches of the government. After a while cor- ruption rears its head, and only a change of per- sons can purify the political atmospnere- ReporTeER—Has the country reason to apprehend the dangers of Cxsarism ? Mr. OrrENDoRrER—I don’t think that General Grant is of “the stuff that Cwsars are made of.” The greatest danger is that he might pave the way for @ Cesar. And, suppose he is elected for a third term, the complaints about his administra- tion wili increase, and the people will finally EFFECT A CHANGE, AFTER ALL. . Of course, the longer he remains in power the* greater the change. It might cause great trouble in the future to effect @ change which now could be brought about by means ofa peaceful election. Athird term and an indefinite continuation of the one man power would undoubtedly be fraught with great danger to our republican institutions. Fortunately we have a: present no public men of such towering height and boundiess ambition. Such men may acise, however, and if the way is paved for them they might attain a power that would at present appear to us impossible. Per- haps it is unfortunate that we have no men of such great power and vast ambition, but tt is fortunate, when Viewed in the light that they would endanger the liberty of the Amcrican people, Rerortkk—Do you think that a third term would really undermine our republican institu- tions ? Mr. OTTENDORFER—It is noteworthy that the tendency in our Nnancial and business institutions is decidedly one of centralization. 1 aliade to the vast monopolies which we observe everywhere. We are imitating THE EXAMPLE OF THE OLD WORLD. Our only salvation 1s in the great and sparsely populated Western States, But let us once pave toe Way for a Cesar, and @ truly great and ambi- tious man would aiter a while endanger American freedom. ReProrTer—Do you know whether Grant desires to be re-elected ? - Mr. OrreNporFER—I cannot tell. I am neither brought in contact with him nor with any persons around him, { think that if he should entertain that wisi it 18 not because he wishes to destroy American liberty, but merely because he eels would like to remain in them for four years longer, | After all, it is not General Grant, but it is the republican party who will decide this question. If the party leaders see that Grant can be more | easily elected than any other man they will cer- tainly induce many to vote forhim. One thing is certain, the American people are not go sensitive in regard to Csesarism as they were in former times, Why, in former years they would have laughed at the very idea. (With asmile.) You know, 1 think THE GOOD SENSE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE will not permit any one man to become their mas- ter. [know that there have been a good dangers in the pasi, and the American pe astrous consequences, The fact that the very ica is not laughed at proves that its realization is pos- sible, and that the national character must have undergone a very great change, REPORTER—How do you account change ? Mr. OTTENDORFER—During the war it was neces- sary to centralize all power, and now that the necessity is gone the tendency, it stil! continues, vORTER—Do you think many voters <esire Grant's re-election ? Mr. OrrENDORFER—There are a great many peo- } ple who are opposed to any change, as long as they Jo not Know its consequences, and these people could easibly be reconciled to it. Before the next election the financial question, the tariff, &c,, will undout iy have assumed such at importance that they will decide the issue move than anything else. KEPORTER—Could Casarism be established in amy | part of the country ? Mr. OTTENDORFER—Not in all the States, but THERE 1S SURELY A GOOD OPPUKIUNITY in some of them, There is a certain craving for tities, a desire for distinctions of cast, which could be better satisfied under a monarchical than ander Pg of government, 1 refer principally to the EPORTER—Do you think we shall ever see an Emperor ¥ T. OTTENDORFER—Not in our lifetime; but what is the life of an individual in the ligntof the history of nasions? No, Ldon’t think we shall live to see it. It the whole United States were as thiekly popu- lated as New York, the danger would not seem so absurd as it does now. However, I don't think there are many people in this country who are downright monarchists, ReEPrORTER—What are the views of the Germans in regard to this question? Mr, OTTENDORFER—The Germans have suffered for this government and feel the blessings of our repub- lican institutions too keenly to view Cwsarism with pleasure, Most of them wounl be willing to make the greatest sacrifices in order to what it is LIVE UNDER A PRINCE. To Had the Cincinnati Convention not made such an mt of | enormous blunder it is certain that not ten percent of the Germans would have voted for Grant. Before agitation was very favorably re- the Convention the ceived among the Germans; but er’ A movement like that wi j= sedea the Oinctnnal vention would find consid ‘able ‘support the Germans. more independent of the regular party verse to the selfish instincts of party that may too much from the effects of monarchical forms of reserve the Republic, They have the advantage of knowing rather com‘ortable in his present quarters, and | | use a phrase o1 Wall street, discounted and create @ were always smart enough to avoid the most dis- | than most of their fellow citizens. (With a smile.) It is a fact they are terribly independent, Rgrorrer—Will the Germans vote for Grant ? Mr, OTTENDOR¥ER—IC there is another candidate who is at all acceptable they will almost uuani- mousiy vote it Grant, I think. I feel pretty sure that the Germans would be very unwill a 10 any case to vote for Grant. However, even If he shoula be elected for a third term, it does net sig- ny that we are pong to renounce the Kepublic, but m rely that winding into a mere form, @ mere shadow, We owe # to the HERALD that our attention is drawn to the possibility of Oxsarism, else we might NOT HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE DANGER. If this discussion should convince the leaders of the republican paity that it would be useless to try the experiment, it will redound to the credit of the HERALD, for it was this timely warning that ap- prised us of the danger which, if not probable, was at least possible. Tue leaders of the Grant party most have been very sorry to see the H&KALD start this discussion, tor even if they did not open! desire Grant's renomination, they probably kest it in abeyance for a while, and now they will probably be compelled to abandon it altogether. Tois terminated the taterview, Mr. Stone, of the Journal of Commerce. Mr. David M. Stone, of the Journal of Commerce, was also called upon, A HeRaLp reporter found him in bis sanctum in conversatien with a gentle- man, discussing the merits of trotting horses in general and of a pair he had lately acquired by purchase in particular. Mr. Stone is a gentleman of genial presence and affable manners, and when the HERALD man broached the object of his visit he turned from the subject of equines to that of Cwsarism with cheerful alacrity. The foliowing conversation ensued :— REPORTER—I have come, Mr. Stone, for the pur- Pose of eliciting what you think about President Grant and Cmsarism, PRESIDENT GRANT'S MISTAKE, Mr. Stong—I think General Grant made a great mistake in accepting the Presidency at all, when he was General of the Army. He ought to have Tested on his laurels. He then stood high in the Tespevt and gratitude of the whole nation, Ineed not tell you thatso much cannot be said of him now. Soon after the war the democrats tried to secure him as their candidate for the Presidency. He then refused, and I remember he remarked in con- versation that he believed in the one-term princl- ple. No man, he said, should be elected President for more than one term. But, in spite of his opinion then expressed, he has coveted and obtained the Presidency for a second term, and although, if lam not mistaken, he bas stated in his second inaugural address that he would retire to his vines and fig- trees at the expiration of the four years, I see no reason why he should not feel disposed to try fora third term, HOW A NATION LOSES HER LIBERTIES, REPORTER—Do you believe, sir, that Cesarism could gain a foothold in this country? Mr. STons.—If not Cwsarism in the literal mean- ing of the word, something very like it. I re- member, when @ boy, I read in history how a small number of soldiers, headed by a despot, obtained absolute power over millions; how these millions looked on with indifference and allowed thems.ives to be kept in subjection, making no effort to shake off the yoke, I then thought, “Ah, but our liberties could not be taken away in this manner. We should rise against any attempt to encroach vpon our rights.” But when I saw the high-handed acts of the government during the late war, without any protest from the mass of the people; when I saw citizens put into Fort La- fayette without warrant or the slightest evidence of guilt, but merely in obedience to the touch of Mr. Seward’s little bell, I thought our liperties were not so secure after all. In illustration of this I will tell you an incident of the late war, which has never been published. A gentleman in Brooklyn, a stanch republican and member of the Wideawake Club, had a young daughter, who left the Packard Institute at the outbreak of the war. She carried on the usual girlish correspondence with a former schoolmate, a young lady in the South, who was crammed with secesh notious, as most Southern ladies were in those times, Cor- respondence from the South was then sefzed by the government, Among the letters opened was one addressed by the secesh girlto her friend in Brooklyn, full of childish gush about the Empire Jeff Davis was going to set up, the fine time they would have, and how she would be happy to re- ceive her iriend’s visit in Secessia, One fine day, as my friend of the Wideawake Club was sitting at dinuer in his shirt sleeves, a carriage drove up be- fore nis house, twe men rung the door,bell and asked to see the head of the family. In his shirt sleeves and hatiess the gentleman in ques- tion came to the door, when the two men seized him, and, threatening to put daylight through him if he resisted, put him 1n the carriage. It was in vain that he begged them to allow him to get his hat and coat and make some explanations to his jamnily. ‘The rufflans retused, and conveyed him to Fort Lafayette, Fer a whoie week after his jamily could not account for his sudden and mysterious disappearance, until a few lines from him, written on a slip of paper, Was brought to his family by a dischargea prisoner trom Fort Laiayette, who managed to conceal it in the sole of his boot when the mystery was cleared up, Prominent republicans interested themselves in his case and procured his release, which it was not difficult to obtain, for he was known as a republican; but bad he been @ democrat he might have remained six or twelve months longer in prison, and ali for a schooigirl’s letter. A few men talked of getting uj an indignation “ete about it, but what good would it have done’ If A. T. Stewart or John J. Cisco or any prominent merchant had been car- ried to Fort Lafayette there would have been little stir about it. It is thus the liberties of a nation are (aken away, When the people become indiffer- ent and eee submit to despotism, The Ameri- can people are now accustomed to the ang ol an army of ofice-holders and acquiesce in it. THE HERALD AND CAESARISM. RerorTeR—Well, is it not your ‘opinion, Mr. Stone, that the HERALD has done something to check Cwsarism by sounding the bugle of warning while it is time ? Mr, Stong—On the contrary, I think if President Grant is elected tor a third term he wall have to thank the HERALD for it. It has taken all the wind it of the opposition. It has familiarized people’s finds with the idea of electing Grant for a third term, and what it calls *Crsarisin” will grow upon them as a thing they nave been accustomed to, Should the event ever come off, it will be, to very little commotion. The course pursued by the Herarp is like that of a “bull? in Wall street. when he finds that some disaster is impending cal- culated to cause a fallin stocks. In such @ case the “Bull”? will be the first to sound the note of alarm in order to get It discounted, or, in other words, to familiarize speculators with tue idea of it, and when the threatened event does at last happen there is little stir about it. By the time the event of “Cwesarism” will have arrived, if that time should every come, people will be in a temper to quietly acquiesce in it: A NICE SET OF RESOLUTIONS. I believe if Congress, at any time during the last oo at had passed an uct to the following etfect i — Whereas certain wicked and dis! ms are seeking to disturb the peace, ‘0 angy uaceamecte and damage of law abiding citizens of the United states; Woereas the election of President would be seized by these same wicked and disloyal persons to carry out their nefarious designs Resolved, That (he election of President, is indefinitely postponed and t Grant. emp red to hold the presidential office until such time as he thinks fit to relinquish it, I say If such a resolution had passed in Congress the people would have submitted to it, GRANT'S CHANCES FOR A THIRD TERM. Rerorrer—What are the chances of President Grant's re-election tor a third term? Mr. Srone—Expressed in figures, I should say that the chances are two out of five that he will be President fora third term, Ii he will be a candi- date there is no doubt of his re-election, and I think he will be if he (nds he has strength enough to carry him to the White House for a third time. REeEPORTER—Do you think, Mr. Stone, that Grant's election for a third term would lead to Owsarism, or, to be more explicit, to the establishmentof an Empire with General Grant as a sort of Emperor? GRANT AS A CARSAR, 4 Mr. Stoxe—1 do not believe that Grant has the stuff in him fora Ca@sar or un emperor. It would lead to a kind of party despotisin which is a8 bad as Cwesarism. If he is clected for a third term he wiil be for @ fourth, flith ahd sixth terms, and maybe for the term of his natural life, And the people would look on with indiference, for what does your aver- age merchant, for instance, care so long as he 1s prespereus and can make money fast? I do not think that Grant is ambitious to be a Cesar er is & despot by nature. He is too indifferent and too fond of his ease for that. He cares for his own well betng more than for that of the country, He takes his comfort, accepts what comes along and allows his cronies to run the machinery of the gov- ernment, A gentieman of prominence, & friend of mine, who js an excellent physiognomist as well as phrenologist, had an interview with President Grant quite recently, He told me he studied his bead and face during the conversation, and found that the one characteristic feature about it was come He says he has no doubt if Grant aspires to roe of Cesar itis not from ambition or love Sf power, but for the emoluments it would WHAT GRANT'T THIRD THRE. It is quite ible, however, term be an improvement on his necond: 18 could 8 edmin- ly not be worse than his frst for gt one of the most pave to tim péreomally. I think, Rowoyer. sacar ereons until, having thi the es of di decomposition would set tn and thea there would be chance for jure government. The end of many Ting, but on a largor scale for I pelieve that ut on & F scale, for ve ultimately the wrong would be righted and she lost lberties of the people reatored to them. Mr. Theodore Tilton, of the Golden Age. Mr. Theodore Tilton was found at his house in Livingston street, Brooklyn. A reporter of the HERALD called upon him in the evening and found him in his study busily engaged in writing. Mr. Tilton conducted the reporter to an easy chair, a seat in which was accepted, and Mr. Tilton stretched’ himself out on the lounge. Thus pre- pared in bodily comfort, the pains and perils of an interview were encountered and overcome. “Mr, Tilton, I have called to ask you to give to the HBRALD your views in reference to a third term, and the great topic of the day, ‘Cxsarsm.’” “{ AM IN FAVOR OF ONE TERM’! “My views are pretty well known as to that; I have written and spoken long ago in favor of a one-term principle, Ou that point I thoroughly agree'with Mr. Sumner, 1 have, however, views in reference to this that are thought tobe some- what peculiar, I think the Presidential term should be five yeara; that the Presidential election should occur at half decades; that is, that there should be, forexample, a Presidential election in 1875 and another in 1580, That there should also be a law proniviting re-election.” “in what do you taluk consists the value of the decade principle *” inyuired the reporter. A HALF DEVADZ FOR A TRRM, “I think we should get tue people famillarized with the time oi the recurrence of the Presidential election, and that as we have adopted the decimal system in our currescy and iound tt easy of com- putation, so we might as easily be able to compute the Presidential period. { regard the Presidential election asa great educator of the people. The people in this country ure so absorbed in material pareules, im money waking and in occupations nat are so essentially personal, that it is only the stimulus given by tue Presidential election that stimulates them to the active consideration of pounes questions, Thereiore, because I regard hat eleciion a8 @ great educator in politics, I would make its recurrence easy of remembrance, and I would give to it aiso the stimutus of electing & different citizen for President on the recurrence of each term.” THE CHANGES OF GRANT'S RE-ELECTION. “7 need scarcely ask yeu, after tuat, if you are opposed to the re-election of President Grant; but 1 will ask you what your opinion May be as to the Chances of his re-election. “I am aes glad that this question of ‘Oesarism,’ i mately it would lead to and corrupt as Cesarism as it is called, or ‘third term’ discussion, has been originated. I never th until lately, that there was any seriousne: it. The talx about it has, however, developed the fact that there are re- Dabileans who are not office-holders, who contem- late with seriousness the re-election of Grant for he third term. A friend of mine, whose position in the South gives him a right to speak for the South, told me, only a few days ago, that the South mean to re-elect Grant. My frieud, it is true, is a warm supporter of the ‘administration, and I thought his zeal had outrun his Knowledge, but, on further questioning, I 1ound it was not so; he spoke seriously, and when you remember that the ad- ministration can elect whom they piease in the South such a remark has great force. THE POWER OF THE ADMINISTRATION TO RE-ELECT ITSELF. “Do you think the administration can elect for the Presidency any one whom it decides upon?” “The President and his party have great control ling pewer in the Presideutial election and can no doubt reseat itself in the government if it so wills. I had personal evidence of that in New England during the last Presidential campaign. It has 65,000 office holders, whv do its bidding unhesitat- ingly and without scraple. In addition to this personal agency it has unlimited funds at its com- Mand. It can do as it did in the last compaign— send the Postmaster of some small New gar and town, with a wagon and two men, through his dis- trict, distributing campaign documents in favor of its candidates. That Kind of influence was very effectual at the last election.” “But what will the great republican party say to & proposal for the re-election of Grant, do you nk f REPUBLICANS OPPOSED TO A THIRD TERM FOR GRANT. “rhere are three years before us. {t is not easy to forecast the future as to that. As far as my knowledge extends I am of the opinion that infu- ential republicans, men on whose judgment the country could rely, are opposed to a thira term, They think that Grant does mot desire it, and until recently have not entertained the suggestion se- riously. In this I think they are mistaken. I said to a gentieman at Long Branch who asked me this very question, ‘Do you think Grant is anxious about a third term?’ that 1 thought Giant's anxiety Was avout his fourth term, not his third.” Major Bundy, of the New York Evening Mail. Grant Not a Dangerous Man—Patronage @ Source of Weukness—Our Army Sys- tem Respects Law, Not Men—Public Opinion Not Yet Ripe. Major Jonas M. Bundy, editor-in-chief of the Evening Mail, was found in the office of that jour- nal, busy in the midst of his editorial duties. After the reporter had stated to him the object of his visit Major Bundy settled himself more comfortably in his leather cushioned chair and adjusted his eye- glasses ready for the ordeal, unusual to a news- paper man, of “being interviewed.” The following dialogue then ensued :— ReEPORTER—Major, I snall first ask you in stereotyped phrase, What do you think about the third term agitation ? AN UNPRACTICAL QUESTION. Major BuNpy—Well, I think that it is certainly a very good question to discuss—the question of a third term—but one which Js yet searcely practi- cable, When the people, as now, have nothing else in the political category to talk about, any dis- cussion that will disturb the national habits of thought that are too apt to fall into straight and rigid grooves is useful. There is at least no harm in it, and I think much good, REPORTER—How do you look upon the rumors of approaching Cwsaric despotism? Major BuNDy—I don’t believe in any analogies drawn from Roman history which compare this epoch of our Republic with the last of the Latin Re- public. If any American President should attempt to usurp power not constitutionally appertaining unto him he would be summarily taken care of by the first mo» that could reach him. It would not require any uprising of the people. His functions and prerogatives are very clearly and rigidly de- fined. The President in fact and in reality has no power whatever, except so far as he represents and follows the best public sentiment. RevorTeR—but cannot such a man as Grant, with his military prejudices, his strong will and tenacity of purpose, easily create a power, of which he is the central motor, in the midst of an unsuspecting and confiding people, who have not yet telt the bitter treachery of ambition? MILITARY EDUCATION AND CIVIL LAWS. Major Bonpy—We have an army, and our officers are educated to give their allegiance to the law of the land, The whole tendency of West Point education is to create and foster respect of the law, and the students there do not imagine themselves servants of any one, not even of the Presiden In times of peace even the General of the Army to stick to law as Closely as any corporal or orderly in his rank, and no Presgdent could expect any _—, from the army even if it took sides in the agi- tion, THE FEDERAL PATRONAGE AN ELEMENT OF WEAK- NESS. REPORTER—How about his control of public sentl- ment through Lendl agg of his office ? Major BuNpy—As to that, had Andy Johnson demonstrated that there was nothing in it I think that the influence of the Jederal patronage is greatly exaggerated by most of the papers in the country. It as true now of the President as ef Talleyrand when he said it—that “tor every ap- pointment he made he made ninety-nine enemies and one ingrate.” Take the whole civil service and I doubt if it is mot to-day quite as much an element of weakness for the administration as of strength, Men who do their duty don’t meddle much in politics, and those who don’t do their duty bring reproach upon their chief. This coun- try, through the railroads and telegraphs, is be- coming practically A PERMANENT MASS MEETING. If Wendell Phillips makes a speech in Boston nine-tenths of the people kuow what he said a few hours aiterward, They are continually kept in- formed of all current facts, ali political move- ments, a8 soon as they spring into lile. Currents of opinion start trom about @ dozen leading inue- pendent newspapers, and, having their influence upon almost every mind in the nation, a wonder- ful harmony and unitormity Of political thought is thus produced, The country is ruled by public sentiment thus created and directed by the watchful and able press of the country of all shades f political thought, The rie fact, is shown experience to more ready to raise the cry of danger when there is no demand for it than to let arém occasion for alarm slip by unheeded, Individuals are thua becoming of less importance. Ii Webster, Clay and Cainoal re to stand among ‘us to-day I think they would find that INDIVIDUALITIES ARE FAR LESS POTENTIAL actually they were when they were upon the of public life, ‘What do you think to be the present sétitude of the people regarding the third term hes Tol aatescgan ve tea oo, We eoanle aes ‘$0 cacige gh ‘ypion ae We propoasereigs. "Spe evidently think according to the old ad: is no use of jumping over a fence unt one ft.” ‘How do you account for this appa- apathy on the t of the nation, when @ question of such importance 1s raised? Major Bunpy—I do not believe that Grant has made or ever will make the slightest exertion to secure re-election. ppose he did entertain that per- nicious ambition, whas would be his chanoest °" Maior. BuNDY—I cannot tellas yet what would be his chances. If the democratic party were to a KILL ALL ITS OFF FOOLS, )Pposition Ci come up strong enough to Sweep the board in 1876, ‘Bur. the} "have not done very lively business at that so far. We cannot tell oe wae sexet the farmers? iz: Hon i ne may be may prove @ large an iy important movement, and, drawing shrewd men to itself, may turn the scale of the contest. If tt now had abie men to undertake {ts leadership it would be far more poweriul than the old “liberty party” which defeated Clay in 1840, The movement against corporacion, too, hus its influence; Wash- burne, one of its leaders, is friendly to Grant and Grant to the movement. I think the discussion begun by the HERALD is a very good people are apt not to think’ enot genius of our government and the dangers which may threaten it now and hereafter. Any provoca- tion, therefore, arousing the people to talk over the nature of our institutions, the powers of the Executive, &c., is likely to result in good, GRANT'S NATURAL TENDENCIES. REPORTER—Does not Grant’s character comport with the ambition of perpetuating his power, which has been ascribed to him? — . *. -«# jor BUND¥—General Grant's education should have produced the opposite eifect upon him, And he has always shown bimself most prompt and modest in ee orders, and while several of the other genera‘s nad trouble with the superiors in command Grant never had. On the contrary, tarough many trials of his sense of official pro- riety, he always showed a Very quiet and unpre- entious dignity, and never the least sign oi 1 subordination. His dizposition may be called te- nacious; yet he has never shown @ purpose of increasing his power or of overstepping its limits. There can be tound in his career no instance when he dia this, while at least a dozen of his brother d difficuities of that sort with their eriors, and sometimes with the depart- ‘ashington, SYOOPHANTS ALONE FAVOR CESARISM, REPORTER—Major, do you not think that there really exists a half dormant sentiment in javor of @ third term for General Grant? Major BuUNDy—Only among men who want to be in office or wish themselves to be counted among the friends of the President. Papers which sus- tain Grant have treated the subject very cavi- lierly, looking upon it as merely a question of usage and not of principle or of any deep signifl- cance, What may occur in the course of two or three years in the political theatre which may change the whole aspect of the subject we, of course, donot know. Grant as a candidate for a third term may then be as much @ necessity as was the election of Lincoln at the beginning of the war or the appointment of Grant as Commander of the Arm , of the Potomac beiore ita close. There may SI rent A GENERAL CHAOS OF PARTIES from the uprising in the Northwest. Tae Grangers, tor instance, may be divided under small demo- cratic and repeatioat leaders, and in seeking a union (wherein alone is strength) they may pre- fer to all others such a man as Grant to lead them in the fight. A great many people have an indis- tinct belief that Grant is not airaid.of anything or pollen and would not be controlled by any cor- poration. REPORTER—Do you not think that this agitation may result in causing a revision of the constitu- |,tion, 80 that the Presidential term of office will be ‘definitely limited? Major BuNpy—Hardly before the election of 1876, although the measure might be made a rider of Senator Morton’s bill regarding the manner of choosing the Chief Mazistrate. veral of the lead- ers in the Senate and House o1 Represeutat:ves, however, if they thought there was any danger of Grant’s re-election, would combine to push such an amendment to ratification as quickly as possibie, They themseives desire tne Presidency. Tue interview here ended. Mr. Erastus Brooks, of the New York Evening Express. Mr. Erastus Brooks, editor-in-chief of the New York Evening Express and brother of the late James Brooks, M.C., was found in his sanctum yesterday afternoon just closing up the matter for the last edition of his paper. Upon being informed by the reporter of the object of the visit made he expressed his willingness to grant five minutes or so to the sudject, as he was then somewhat busy. ‘The conversation which ensued was as follows :— REPORTER—I have calied to ascertain your views, generally, upon tie subject of a third term for the Presidency, anu on the question of the possibilities and probabilitics of Casarism in our government? Mr. Brooxs—Well, with such an old whig as my- self there could be but one view in reierence to the successive eligibility of a President tor re- election. Itave thoucht agreat deal of the sub- ject, and have discussed it for thirty years in my paper and am in favor of luniting the tenure of ‘the office toa single term. I am in favor, however, of extending that term. ReporreR —To what length of time, Mr. Brooxs? Mr. Brooxs—Well, to six years, and the circum. stances might jastily even aterm of eight years rather than thata man should be twice elevated to the office. I would extend the term so as to avoid the frequency of political commotion, REPORTER—W hat are the evils which you believe to flow from the system of permitting a President to be a candidate a second or third time for re- felection? Mr. BRrooxs—I believe he !s too apt to permit his desire to secure a repomination and re-election to shape and control his official acts. He will be likely to wield the power of his office to achieve SUCCESS TO HIMSELF, when, with a mind wholly devoid of personal in- terest and devoted to the public requirements that inflyence might have been exerted in another and purely normal direction, Besides, our government is @ very ditfereut concern now irom what it was Nity or seventy-iive years ago. The power of & President then au. Oo! @ President now are largely altered. A single illustration will demonstrate that fact, when we consider thatin John Quincy Adams’ time the expeases of the govern- ment were $13,000,000 annually, whereas now they are $300,000,000, and the power of the Chiet Magistrate is increased in just that proportion also, The revenues are larger and the political dependants or oftice-hold- ers surrounding a President are numbered by tuou- sands. These thousands of ollice-hoiders, ti a Presi- dent becomes a candidate for re-election, are, of course, in accord with him, and it becomes a inat- ter of personal interest instead ef public duty with them. Iam in tavor decidedly of a constitutional provision limiting the eligibility. Jefferson might, undoub:ediy, have been eiected @ third time, cut he expressed huasell us Opposed to the Movement, and Jackson heid similar views, It 18 the natural tendency ol our form of government to drut in this direcuon of successions, and is largely due to the fact that the government is derived irom the people. IT BEGINS AT THE LOWEST ROUND with the caucus, then comes the primary meeting and then the County Convention, ‘The County Convention sends its delegates to the State Cou vention, and the state Conventions are represente in the Nations: Convention, aud the National Cone vention hominates the candidate for the Presi- den Thus, altuough toat cancus or primary lorued by @ mere dozen persons back room, the whole eoncerd soon becomes & BOrt Of assoeiation, a party, and the tendency is to work insi¢ or with “the machine,” and this leads to th attempts to perpetuate the powers of party, and oftentimes of individuals, as repre- seuting the part You wid thus see bow such a result may flow from what was in its origin @ purely patriotic motive. (Mr. Brooks paused here & moment, and then resumed.) 1 i00k upon Julius Cesar as having been one of the most democratic men in sentiment of his own or ol any other tine. Yeu he was ied to grasp and arrogate all power to himseli, not in my opinion irom the ineie desire to usurp, 4 because he thought it was the west for Rome that he should do 80, I say tiis Without expressing any opinion as to whether he was right or wrong—right or wrong, With the power at his command and the desire 80 to exert it, he would Lave achieved tt, HE DROVE AWAY POMPEY and Cassius and clothed himself with the extremest powers; and yet we find that when he had re- storea the aifairs of the nation alter his own mind he Was not hostile to others—ne knew no man as an adherent of Pompey or as @ follower of Cassius, but asa citizen. REPORTER—Do you believe that the tendencies of this centralization and of this one-man power are subversive of government in the form in which our government exists? Mr. BRooKs—While I do not desire to express Myself as of the opinion that any man would at. tempt such an arrogant Step, Imust say that I believe that the peopie shor jealously watch the growth of this power. In oiden times in our history all political movements were closely watched and all public rights were very jealously guarded. The Femoval of persons from office upon political grounds in the days of John Adams Was a matter that would create the most anxious alarm. It was not then deemed conducive to the public weliare that any man should be either retained in office or dismissed trom position purely political junds, and an attempt to 0 exercise power in half a certain individuals fone seriously conside: Congress, And 4 SOLICITUDR ‘THIS concerning the exercise of such measures was by means @ mistaken ides, he moans Mian dO A ing eamin- By A trate all that [havesaid. The action of President po AS perenne bE poe on Seuthern States nay are OU! ews. expressed. He acted with an arbitrariness that would have created the most intense feeling ata time when the powers wielded by a Chief wee were not a tithe of those he now hoids, don’t think @ one-term President would act as he has done concerning his brother-in-law, Casey, in New Orieans, or would do what he bas done in our own Custom House here, And if such would have been a sariect of anxiety to the able minds of those days | do not see why they sheuld not be viewed with equal apprehension now. Mind, i do not exactiy anticipate a coercive subversion oF usurpation of our government by an individual, but through just such measures a8 would achieve that result the powers of the people may be grasped bya large combination of adherents of amy party in power, and this leads me to the belief that they should be closely scrutinized. RePorreR—Do you not thiak, Mr. Brooks, that the whole growth of OUR INTERNAL SYSTEM has in late years tended in the same direction—t mean with reference to the consolidations aud ab- Sorptions of private corporations so as to attalm the magnitude of gigantic monopolies? Mr. BRooxs—I do in a la measure ; but I must say here that { do not think that, so far as these commercial centralizations are concerned, they should be repressed. They should rather be regu- lated, watched, placed under ample restricion, which, while it would prevent them from do! harm, would in no wise limit their power for good. This was always a matter of deep concern with my brother, whe often discussed it in all its bear- ine, both with mysel! and with his intimate lends. But to return more closely to the original subject of conversation: | think such a thing a8 THIS SALARY BUSINESS would never have resulted under a one-term sy8 tem. No Presidetit but a second term one would have mage such @ thing possible, and its effect was readily seen in the action of Congress in the back pay atfair—tney had a precedent and a ready excuse for their course, REPORTRER—Have you any idea that there is any Man in Ameri 10, in the face of our 40,000,000 pes People, would attempt to usurp the govern- Mr. Brooxs—While I do not think it likely, ¥ must concede the possibility of such an éifort. 1 do not doubt what the result weuld be; but we do not want even the attempt. And it is to guard against precisely that that I beileve great watch- fulness should be exercised in regard to the con. ferring or assumption of power. As the oppor- tunities grow beiore the mind of an ambitious man he may be led to do that which at another timo HE NEVER DREAMED of, and not altogether even with personal motives, but, perhaps, with a mistaken belief that it was for the public benefit that he should so exercise hi infu- ence and will. In regard to the lengthening of the term so as to avoid political excitements and hos- tilities, 1 must say that I have tound a rapidly growing dislike among the people of these fre- quent agitations. It is extremely undesirable to ali commercial interests, and there are thousands of people who would almost preier a permanent Chief Magistrate vo the turmoil of election every four years. I have heard people express the belief that an enlightened oligarchy would, in their opin- fon, be preferable to this system of periodically itated and disturbed republicanism. ‘nis closed the interview, substantially; and, thanking Mr. Brooks tor his patience and courtesy, the reporter withdrew. Mr. Haugh Hastings, of the New York Commercial Advertiser. i No Danger of Grant Becoming a Ceesar— Andy Johnson “the Frigntfal Ex- ample”’—Nothing Would Be Left of Grant if He Tried It. Mr. Hugh Hastings, editor and proprietor of the Commercial Advertiser, sat in his ogice writing some letters in a hurry preparatory to taking the boat to Long Branch, when the HERALD reporter was ushered into his sanctum. On hearing the reporter's mission, Mr. Hastings said, with great cordiality :— “Sit down, take a chair and I’ll tell you what I think of this subject. But, first of all, what doyou want to know?” “Your opinion of what has of late been cailed Cesarism, or, in other words, of the tiird term principle.” Mr. HastTINcs—To me all this discussion ts to- tally unnecessary and actually without weight. 1 hold tiat if the people want General Grant fora third term they wil have him. Ifthey don’t they will put him out. It isin the nature of our peo- ple, itisin the nature of our government, not to sutter for one moment a man in power whom they do not want. It would be the height of folly for a President like Grant, popular as he has shown him- sell to be, to endeavor to advance himself at the expense of our institutions. His popularity, his power would disappear LIKE CHAF¥ BEFORE THE WIND. We have a good enough example, it scems to me, in Andy Jolson, When he attempted to run against the wiilof the people see how Congress rose up and tied bim so, hand and foot, that he was Just as powerless in his bigh position as an Assis<- ant Alderman in this city. “gut then,” ventured the HERALD reporter, “Johnson ‘went back,’ as it were, on his own party.” “Precisely 80, and would not General Grant be doing tie same thing should he decide to go against the will of the people? Andy Johnson was elected by the majority, and yet it was this same majority that corked him up, was it not? When he grew erratic and went against the will of those wha elected him he was made to feel how utterly pow- erless he was. The man who does this in such @ country as ours becomes IMMEDIATELY A NONENTITY. His willis as nothing, and our own laws give us the ways and means by which we can stop the course of such @ man at a day’s notice.” KEvORTER—But do you not think, in spite of all this, that the third-term principie 1s a vicious one in practice and would be gradually introducing a system which im the end might be prolonged indefi- niteiy ? Mr. Hastinas—No, I cannot look at this matter seriously. I cannot for @ moment aliow that any danger can threaten this Kepublic in suc. a man- ner for the reasons that I have explained—that our jaws do not permit its possibility. On tne other hand, I can see NO OBJECTION TO GENERAL GRANT being once more or twice more President if the people so please. So long as they want nim they ‘will have him, and the moment they don’t he must go. No amount of terms can weaken the principie. And if the people of the United States realy looked at this matter seriousiy—that ts,in the lignt of Grant wanting to consolidate his own power— would be deleated in such @ manner that noth- tag would be ieft of him. 1 am a republican, and, to acertain extent, a believer in General Grant; but iff supposed he intended fey such thing 1 would oppose him immediat lLonly stand by him as long as he does rigat—not a inoment longer; and I know that this is the sentiment of all those who claim the slightest amount oi inde- pendence. It is THE TENDENCY OF ALL OUR PAPERS at present to be more or less independent. We have not at present any partisan papers, as we understood the word in the oiden time. Even the paper which pretends to be the chief organ of Grant and the government does not spare censure occasionally so a8 to give it an appeurauce of im- partiality. I think this discussion of Cwsarism by the HERALD at the present time is wise. It is @ continuation of the system of the elder Bennett— filling up a@iuli in politics. It makes people talk aoout Ciesarism, and it makes thein talk about the HERALD, All the country papers in the land are ac present filled with the HeRaLp. But still [can see nothing serious in the discussion, because I know that it is not consistent with the opinion of tne country that any such thing should take place as is threatened, RePoRTER—Do you mean to say that it is impos- sible General Grant shouid be re-elected’ Mr, Hastinas—I do not say that; I think tt pos- sible and even probable, but I deny its possibility if the people do not wish it so, General Grant was NOT THE FAVORITE OF THE POLITICIAN! at the last election. They took him because they had to take him, not because they liked him, 16 was the same with Lincoln’s second electien; the politicians were against him, and yet he was suc~ cessful, Now J khew that the Custom House gan, did not want Grant re-elected; they pretended they did, that’s all. Were they able to stopit? Not ior a moment. The pevply really had all the bey The Philadeiphia Convention was unquestionably the voice of the people, and the election itself proved it perhaps more strongly than any which ever took place previously. I mysel! was opposed to General Grant for @ second term; still, of course, | went with the majority and with the party, Who all seemed to be quite enthusiastic as to the cane didate. It was evident to me, long before tae election took place, that the victory would be iumimense, REPoRTER—But, Mr, Hastings, do you not be- lieve that by perpetuating Presidential terms, as you say is possible and even probable, such coups d'état as have often taken place in European countries would be possible here on the part of @ President who desired power ? Mr. HastiNas—Oh, no! I have quite made up my mind that no man or number of men can over- turn our government, We are PBRFECTLY SAFR on that score, for we ha not the people to submit — to such a step. We are the govern- ment, not mo! We are at present quite satisfied, I Our taxes are si we can see notuing in General Grant to be iright- enegronran—Do you believe that President Grant hameelt desires mn OF is seeking it by any ‘Mr, Mastines—No. I think General Grant ts too it 88 10 think estate Ts at Sethe