The New York Herald Newspaper, May 16, 1872, Page 4

« THE SURRENDER, —_+- Tho Chamber of Commerce Signing the | Capitulation to England. Ps A Pedler Bourgeoisio That Likes | the Shylock Bargain. - Their Ducats Worth the Na- | tion’s Honor. iehceceedpee | Pelmor Divines the Face Behind | the Mask. Gran* the Unconditional Sur- renderist. - Royal Pheips, a Noble Demoerat, Votes ‘* No.” e In the HERALD of yesterday morning the follow- {ng call of the Chamber of Commerce was printed and cast broadcast before our citizens :— Nety York, May 14, 1872, To Mr. WILLTAM E. DonGz, President of the Cham- ber of Commerce :— Drar The undersigned members of the Chamber of Commerce respectfully request you to call a special mectang of tie Chamber jor Wednes- | day (to-morrow), May 15, at half-past two P. M., to give expression to the views of the Chamber on the Treaty of Washington and the ratifeation by the Senate of an additional article thereto, as proposed by Minister Schenck. Your obedient servants, GEORGE OPDYK. ¥ WASH. R. VERM. SAMUEL D, BABC( . HENRY A. BARLING, JOHN D. JONES, wr F iC. INESTC PITT COOKE, D. WILLIS JAMES, DANIEL eres IF . By order of the President. N, Secretary. At half-past two o'clock some forty members of | the Chamber—solid-looking, heavy, respectable | men—had assembled for business, On every tongue the remark was current, “Did you see the Alabama correspondence in the Ieravp this morn: | ing? Noother peper had it.’ Another member | asked, “How did the Herap get it?’ A third sald, mv y, “I am afraid the H LD has let the cat out of the bag by printing that correspond- ence, which shows the Uuited States, through her | government and Ministers 2)road, to be weak and | cowardly, only fit to bully the Sandwich Islands or | Venezuela or some other rsaken place with. | out an army, a people or a ficet.” Tt will be observed that there is reference made {n the eal! of the Chamber of Commerce to an “ad- ditional article, as proposed by Minister Schenck.” Now, this is the supplemental article which occurs at the bottom of correspond printed in the Hexaxp yesterday. A demo- } cratic membor of the Chamber of Commerce | said to a HERALD reporter yesterday, “I tell | you, sir, that this meeting w: calied by an | order from General Grant. Why, there are forty | members here, aud there are but two democrats | among tliem—Royal Phelps and Richard Bell. Now, | I see that the order of the goverment was to have | the Senate throw the yeil over the eleven columns | of diplomatic correspondence which the Heratp had the tremendous enterprise to procure, God knows how, and print yesterday. Well, to continue, then. The Chamber issnes a | call, dated May 14, to consider an ‘additional or | supplemental” article, but unless the meeting was | called by Grant, through the interference of Cyrus W. Field, how gould the Chamber possibly have known that the English government had proposed or accepted an additional article. The answer is— the government gave them the information, or at least gave It to some administration politician in the Chamber, and now they are frightened to death: And I say, God help Grant now, for I think he has at tast destroyed himself beyond rescue, or else his friends have done it for him, and he is now in the hands of his enemies. He has been called ‘Cncon- ditional Surrender Grant,’ and 1 believe his abso- lute surrender to England of the honor and good name of the nation to which he belongs justifies the title of ‘Unconditional Surrender Grant.’ ? This conversation took place before the meeting | had convened, and considerable curiosity was mani- | fested to know what the action of the Chamber of Commerce would be in such a crisis as this which has come upon the American people. Never since | the meeting of the Chamber of Commerce at the time of the firfng on Sumter has there been £0 much excitement observable among the members. | But the men who called the Sumter meeting are | either dead or those who survived have become en- | ervated, as was evident from the proceedings yes- | terday. The Chamber seemed to be cowed by the | daring insolence of Granville to Minister Schenck, { From the actual statement of Mr. Schenck in one | of his telegrams, published in the HeRratp yester- | day, it seems that Lord Granville thought he knew the constitution of the United States better than the President, the Secretary of State or its Min- ister at a foreign court, for Schenck makes sugges- tions to the Secretary of State in his own peculiar manner. ‘For, says Schenck, “Lord Granville seems to think that, so far as the diMculty for want of constitutional power is concerned, the President might perhaps be willing to suymit notes to the Senate for their advice? Would H@do that ?” asks Schenck, innocently. Now all these ideas, or sim- ilar ones, were running through the brains of the worthy members of the Chamber of Commerce while the body were in session. The following gentlemen made speeches dur- ing the meeting:—Sinclair Tousey, the friend of Horace *y, Who weakened ou his friend and backed up Grant by voting for the resolutions. He sald he was opposed to Grant, but voted for the | Tesolutions, George Opdyke, who offered the reso- lutions, was quite mild, and sat down after he had offered them. He and his resolutions of “back down" business were opposed by Alexander Del- mar, the well-known statistician, who denounced the resolutions as a carefully worded scheme to shield the administration for its atrocious blunder and surrender of the proud name of the | American people. A. 1. Tigsins declared, as a “Christian,” that he was satisfied with England, considering her stubborness and her pride, and ended by avowing once more his “Christian” principles, aud stating that the American people never intended to collect or enforce consequen- tial damages. Then he sat down like a Christian, George W. Dow referred with pride | to the fact that he had as much American blood in his veins as any other member in the room, and William EB. Dodge, who presided and is president of the Young Men's Ohristian Association, at tacked Mr, Delmar in a serious manner, and said | that he had never heard a8 much politicsin that | Chamber tn the course of bis life as he had heard in few moments from Mr. Delmar. A. A. Low, one of the most prominent men in the Chamber, said that he was afraid it would go out that the Presi- dent had made an unconstitutional surrender, as had already been stated by a large portion of the } press, and he contrasted unfavorably the press of the United States with the press of England, which had supported the administration of Mr. Gladstone almost uuauimously, forgetting that Mr. Gladstone | is oa the winning side and U. & ¢ ton the losing | | side im the negotiations. Altogether it was a | strange meeting and one that could nardly be ea! } to refiect Ty much credit on the American name, | be the imitation of the | Malt | Alabama an | that } clat | dounded to the credit | knew that the tn | ain, and the honor of this cou | thon. mention the following having voted ‘Yes,"" wo will gentlemen :— THOSE WHO vorRD “ Yrs" FORA BACK DOWN &UP. PLEMENTARY ARTICLE IN THB TREATY. is W. Field, Hamilton Brace, Charles Butler, Jos, U. Orvis, Paul N. Spodord, Richard Bell, John Humphr Ivaao H. Reea, dohn A. W. UW, Guion, d Wm. K. e, A. 1. Riggina, mbrose Snow, George Opdyke, Chas, Dennis, A. A. Low, u, C. Fahnestock, George W. Dow, and some others. The PRESENT of the Chamber (Mr. W. E. Dodge) called the Chamber to order and read the call, whicl was published in the Hrgzarp yesterday. THE BEsoy 10M. Mr, Grorce OvpyK# said that he had prepared a short series of resolutions, which, with the permis- elon of the President, he would read :— Wi hereas the Treaty of Washington, referring the differ between this country and Great Britain to arbitea ! ed AS A measure of great interests of civilization and honor of proposing ft belongs. to ent of this country, and whercas differ. ences of opinions of the two countries respe. treaty in regard io the supplemental i ferences has been pr Privala, and by tho Presi h article appears to the Chamber to be . binding the two governments to ilo a cont rule for the future, and espectall to the United States and its commerce; ant he failure ov the (reaiy Would be # great public revore, 1, That this Chambor, without meaning thereby to unply that our government ‘has at all erred. {n tts con- struction ot the tre: and believing that the supple. mental artlete ds more ‘th: equivalent for the clalins of our goverament, as originally presonted, aud fcel!ny the importance of removing-all obstacles in'the way of the execution of the treaty generally, recommend. tho n of the supplementary avilcle, aud pray the to ratity it. Mi. TOUSRY WANTS MORS LiGHT. Mr, Srvecam Vousey desired that the supple- Meutary article be read. Mr. Orbykr accordingly read the supplementury treaty. Senat WE AT ANY PRICK, Mr. Oppyke said that he would say a few words in support of the resolutions. It would be seen by pplementary article what was really ineaut. jo doubt, aren reason for an objection to » piiraseology of the article, which, he thought, t have been stated in language that would have been mueh more directeln tts character, But, after all, the preamble states on the part of Great Britain the trae rule that should govern the lia- bility of neutrals in time of war, and which should ability to that of direct damnge. The case of America, presented under the treaty and introduced by the government, in- cluded indirect or ponmeduenstel damages—lam- ages which in themselves were very dim- enlt to ascertain, but, If literally — inter- preted, England would be called upon to do that which had never been done before, because it had never been included in the treaty of any coun- try. Great Britain declared that they did not un- | derstand tt, and under that view of the presente- tlon ofthe treaty they declared thelr willingness only to enter into a binding contract with the American government where the liability shall be Ato divect damages, That was, in his (Mr. Opdyke’s) judgment, a better rule than the one | proposed to England in the treaty. In the future It wonld protect neutrals from any forced expla- netion of the neatral laws, and he be- Heved that It would be very useftl, not only to the government, but to” the peonle of the ed States—(cheers)—which has. been, and Lhope will be again, one of the greatest inaritiine nations in the world, and wi as a sea ling more than five thousand miles; a { muck too large for us to prevent depredations “re supposed emergence if the original to be ¢ ed it would {Involve the payment m much larger than that demanded by Prus- nm France when France was brought under it e He «id not want America to be Nabi apy such infMietions in future, and this sty plementary article en d it to be done, and this ue to this country than the to wait iong for and perhaps never get. Tho resolutions had been carefully drawn and wero nply in accordance with the sentiments of that AN ADMINISTRATION DODGE. Mr. ALEXANDER Deca ar said that he could not help imt think, from the nature of these resolutions aud from various other circumstances connected with them, that the action of the Chamber was sought to be that of an essentially partisan charac- tor, A treety almilar to this was conclud tween the United States and Great Britail = aty was concluded in 1867, the § ; that y it was condemned in United States Senate during a period when the wate Was at variance with # Senator, and was so condemned when the present Presi- was elecied and before party politics had entered into the treaty, This treaty differed only from the former one, substantially, by including indirect claims; for cla. for damages by the other vessels, That was the treaty propoxed by the United States and accepted by Great Britain, The Chamber of Commerce was now called upon to give its endorsement to what was jpably an administration biander. He did not ink it became the Chamber of Cominerce to ratee its voice In that manner, and was quite as foreign to its natural o1 ation as ‘hs, J roduction of any other political matter that divided the opinion of this couatry, The question of consequeniial demages for the Treaty of Washington was oriyinally made in a letter from Mr. J. Walker to Mr. Stephenson, of Nova scotia, in 1863, and afterwards included in a speech made hy Mr. Penne ud was subsequently made a ground of national policy, When whey were mooted in the Treaty of Washington the mention of them was thought to be only for the purpose of a literary sensation, This question had, therefore, become & mere party question, and is #0 considered by the country, and is so considered to-day. As a Matter of party politics it was believed to be en- tirely unbecoming on the part of the American people. He hoped that those who did not wish par- tisan questions to be mixed up with the proceed- ings of this Chamber would not allow themselves to be made instruments to slide down softly from out of sight what was palpably a party blunder, POLITICS AND THE CHAMBER. The PRESIDENT said that he had been connected with the Chamber for a great many years, and he agreed with the gentleman that there should be no action as to party, and that no speeches should be in fg way connected with politics. But no speech he had ever heard in that Chamber since his connection with it lad more reference to politics than the one he had just heard, (Cheers.) A GREELEY REPUBLICAN ENDORSEMENT. Mr. SINCLAIR Tovssy said that some of the gentle- men in the room knew that he was not in harmony with the present administration; thereforetif his testimony went on the other side it would have, probably, rather more value attached to it. We hoped that the resolutions proposed by the Vice President would be adopted— (cheers) — without a dissentient vote. The gentleman who had just spoken had not understood the scope and intention of these resolutions. The resolutions wisely, without implying or admitting a mistake, wave ‘this country a chance of are | it, and an opportunity was now given by which the original statement of th® American case at Geneva could be amended. Was it not better, a8 wise men, to take advant of that Meats to correct the mis- take. He, therefore, heartily endorsed these reso- lutions, and earnestly hoped they would pass. (Cheers.) A MERCHANT AND A CHRISTIAN, Mr. A. FP. HigGrvson said he was one of the junior members of the Chamber, and had not had an op- portunity of begihee 3 anything before. He, however, was in Europe laet year, and knew with what de- light the settlement of these international ques- tions by arbitration was regarded there, in view of the great calamities of the European war. This question was one of those matters that should be settled by common sense people in a common sense way, whether it was a partisan or 4a political sub- ject, or otherwise. He did not think that any American citizen ever dreamt of these Indirect ne being admitted by Great Britain; they were only brought forward as a kind of argument for the fulfiment of the treaty, As one knowing the stubbornness of the British people, he was certain that they would ad- here to their resolution wi a tenact| t} that was like their dogs’ even unto each other's ‘de. struction, The: felt hat their interest in the United States was incalculablée, and they had given way in a manner that showed how noble and Chris- tan their character was. It was the duty of this country to give way in this matter, and if it re- the administration w! lot the administration have the credit. (Cheers.! They had come to that Chamber as American men, and as Christian men, and he did not think that there was a heart in the nation that would not re- jotco when they found these resolutions wonld aid In that direction, He trusted that they would be passed willingly and cordially. (Loud applause.) FRAR OF A NEWSPAPER HOWL. Mr. A, A. Low—'There were two reasons, he said, Why he could not vote for the resolutions before the meeting, The firat was that the matter was in hands when It waa entrusted to the present admin- ‘stration and the Senate of the United States, He formation of the government must far transcend apy information that the Chamber could possess, He knew that they were abundantly able to settie every question atfecting Great Brit- intry was certain! safer tn thelr hands, He thought that the Chamber #lepped out of the course of ita duty in attempting to assist the Senate in settling this diMeult ques: it was their interest as merchants to have this matter settled; and it was simply because the resolutions were the result ofa threat on the art Of Great Britain, that they should withdraw he treaty that he objected to Ynem. It might be said by the Chamber that it was better to have Un ; but, after all, the fact was very ap- parent that the resointions were on the table ain: bly hecause England had declared that she would not amere to the treaty. The resolutions implied that the government had erred. THe did not know whether the government had erred or not. If the treaty were finally agrecd to, according to the English interpretation, ® great portion of the American fag or American honor I may be worth stating here that out of forty persons who voted two gentlemen, Mr. Royal Phelps and Mr. Aicxander Deltuar, both democrats, } Were the Ouly Ones who Voted “No” on the Opdyke Tesolutions. Among tose Who are cousvicuous as | the public press would ~ accuse the ent of having been subservient to Great Britain. While 4 portion of the press had stood by the government the English press, one and all, sustains the pusition taken by that country. If, by and by, the press turned upon thogs who supported the supplement- ary article he should atl regret it; for it could not be denied that dui the war of oellion NEW YORK HERALD, England had greatly injured this country. He be- Meved that. fiese ‘wrongs were justly cf forth in the American case, but he quite agreed with those who had previously spoken that no pecuniary com- sation could recelved for these indirect i Boeri But if these concessions went on he feared that En, id would be object to pay for even the direct damages, and that we should never get to @ final solution of the dificulty. WHAT THK SENATE EXPRCTED, Mr, Gro, W, Dow, wished to know whether it was important that the Senate should recieve the Judgment of (he Chamber to-morrow, The PresipEnt sald he was not aware what the desire of the Senate was, but he had reason to b Meve that the Senate would be greatly grati- fiedin Knowing the action that would be taken, (Oheers.) MAGNANIMITY RECOMMENDED, Mr, Dow said that he felt that the Chamber ought to be magnanimous enough to do its duty, whether lt was opposed by the press or not. (Cheers.) ‘The President and the Senate at Wash- ington simply looked at the honor and benefit of this country, and he did not believe that any man who looked atitin that light had any expectation of ever receiving any compensation for these indirect damages, Those claims had been put before Great Britain only for the purpose of supporting the dl- rect claim and helping its enforcement. He thought the Chamber would do its duty in passing the reso- lutions and coming boidly up to the mark of its duty. (Lond cheers.) THE ORUCIAL TEST. The President then put the resolutions to the meeting, and they were passed unanimously, with tie exception of the “no” of Mr. Delmar. SENT TO WASHINGTON. Mr. OrpyKE taoved that the resolutions be pro- perly engrossed and forwarded to the President and the President of the Senate of the United States by that night’s matl, which was agreed to. THE PETITION, The following petition to the Vnited States Sen- ate, which was signed by nearly ll present, was submitted by Mr. 8. T. Morton: — reigned citizens of New York, while they would uot lige nnything which the government of the United States eantiot honorably accept, desire to express their protouud conviction, irrespective of party, that the present interests and prospective welfare of the country demand an additional article to the Treaty of Weehing- | Brevent both the government of Great | ton which will Britain and the United Biates from presenting any clalins for consequential damages which might arise a belligerent and the other @ neutral” WHO SIGNED TH PETITION. ‘The following names wore attached to the petition when presented :-— KE. D, Morgan & Co. Maitland, Phelps & Co, Morton, Bliss & Co, Brown Brothers & Co. Jay Cooke & Co, Barlow, Laroque & Co. John J. Cisco & Co. J. J. Stewart & Co. William H, Fogg & Co. George Opdyke & Co, _ Spotford Bros, & Co. The meeting adjourned shortly after half-past four o'clock. THE TREATY TELEGRAMS. Sere GEA in order that a due appreciation may be formed of the motives which superinduced the action of he Chamber of Commerce yesterday, in their en- dorsement of American disgrace and applause of the tinker diplomatist at Washington, we republish to-day the cable despatches between the two gov- ernments, which appeared exclusively in yester- day's HERALD :— GENERAL BOHENCK TO MR. FISH. Lonpon, April 1, 1872. Have be any objections to tne British govern- ment filing a counter case without prejudice to their position in regard to consequential damages? SCHENCK, Received at 9:40 A. M. MR. FISH TO GENERAL SCMENOK, WASIINGTON, April 2, 1872. We understand the British government is bound to fite counter case, and that thelr so doing will not prejudice any position they have taken, nor af- fect any tpt of this government, The rights of both parties will be the same after fillng as before, Is the inquiry made at their request? FISH, Secretary. ORNERAL SCHENCK TO MR. FISH, LEGATION OF THE UNITED STATES, Lonpon, April 25, 1872. Sin—At this moment it appears too probable that the govérnment here will * * * take such a course as will put an end to the arbitration at Geneva and to the treaty. I will not now virope to explain or comment on the situation. The development and the events of the last few days you will have gathered from telegraphic com- munications and from the reports of proceedings in Parliament, and articles from the London journals, which Icontinue to send you. If there is to bea disastrous termination of all our work, from which we had hoped so much of for the two countries and for world, the obstinate refusal of the British govern- ment and people to go oa with a solemn and high engagement that, without any sacrifice of their dignity and interests, might have been conducted to a conclusion which would have blotted away all jous causes of disagreement between them and us, will bo not a le owing to the course of some of our own ‘citl The diMeultles hays been pbc eA increased of late, and Great’ Britain encouraged in her position by the tone of some of the American journals, by inconsiderate di clarations of some public men al by m writing, telegraphing and conversa’ not wise and thoughtful, though generally perhaps not mis- chjevously intended, nis has led at last to a common conyi¢tion here that tue best and most in- Nuential men of the United States desire to have our government recede from its position. 1 await still your communication in reply to Lord Gran- ville’s note of the 12th ult. I hope also with that, or sooner by heli J to receive Instructions from you which may direct and help me in any contin- gency likely to occur, I shall doubtless have much to report and bring to your consideration now very soon, In the meantime I will not fail to keep mind parole directed to any and every expe ent by which the treaty may possibly be preserved, although our tnterest in maintaining and executing its provision is certainly not greater than the need of this nation, which does not seem to me to fully weilgh and appreciate the unhappy consequences to flow from its repudiation. Ihave the honor to be, ver respectfully, your obedient servant, ROBERT C. SCHENCK. MR. FISH TO GENERAL SCHENCK. WASHINGTON, April 27, 1872. You are aware that neither in the case presented in behalf of this government at Geneva, nor the in- structions to you, have the United States asked for pecuniary damages on account of that part of the Alabama claims called the indtrect losses, which the British government think are not within the prov- ince of the tribunal, We think it essential, how- ever, that the qnestion be decided whether claims of that nature can in the future be advonced against the United States as a neatral by Great Britain when the latter is 4 belligerent; for if Great Britain is to be at liberty when a beligerent to advance claims for in- direct losses or injuries against this country then our claims must be maintained and we must pipes for compensation. A conversation with Sir Fdward Thornton induces the belief that the British government m: make a proposai to you to the effect that Her Majesty's government en- Rages and stipulates that in’ the future, should reat Britain be a pegerent and this country neutral, and should there be any failure on the part of the United States to observe their nentral obligations, Great Britain will when one | make or advence no complaints or claims against the United States by reason or on account of af indirect, remote or consequential results of suc! fatlure; and that in consideration of such stipula- tion, the United States shall not press fora pecunt- ary award of damages before the Geneva Tribunal on account of the claims respecting which Great Britain has expressed the opinion that they are not included in the submission—namely, the transfer of the American shipping, increased insurance and the prolongation of the war, Should @ proposal to this effect be made by the British rc rhiment the President will assent to it, it being understood that there 1s no withdrawal of-any part of the American case, but sn agreement not to demand damages on account of the claims referred to, leav- ing the tribunal to make such expression of opinion agit may think proper on that subject, It is pre- sumed that such an agreem ot may be carried into effect by an exchange of notes. FISH, Secretary, GPNENAT, SCMENCK TO MR. FisH. . Loxpon, April 30, 1874, Your 181, received last night, has been by some accident wet and blurred, but I hope to make it all out day ag Meanwhile your telegram, which came Sunday night, was the occasion of a atrictiy confl- faded interview with Granville yesterday. He objected to this government making first move- ment, but that point is now conceded. They object to having arbitrators express opinion on indirect claims when the two governments agree mend After are not to be the subject of an award, consideration by Cabinet, the follow! iven me last it confidentially raft of a possib! communication made tome. If the United States have i, to assent to it, and will previously put Her government in ssion of the terms of the as- sent, Her Majest vernment adhere to their view that it Is not within the province of the arbitrators to consider or to decide upon the claims for indirect losses—viz., the transfer of the American shipping, the increased a ed of-insurance and the pro- longation of the war—and that consequently the fovernment of the United States ought not to press for a consideration of such claima, They are, how- ever, ready to state that in the event of the govern- esty’s ment of the United States eing that the arbitrators are not to ve regard in any award that they may, make — to the above-mentioned claims, Her Majesty's government will, on thelr part, agree that the view which they have heretofore presented and the in- admissibility ef such claims shall still continue to be their principle of action and conduct in all like cases and in similar circumstances, and that the: are ready, in pursuance of the recognition of suc! Pringle, to give assurance to the United States that If Great Britain should at any time hereafter be a belilgerent while the United States is a neu ht nae that nature in similar ¢ mn. 'clreumstances will never be advance inst the United States. Such an assurance for the future being reciprocally given by both parties, an arrangement such as is liere kketohed out might be carried into effect, by an exchange of notes, Which shall be communicated to and recorded bj rbt- trators, In submitting this ‘drant of tek? vroposal I should inform you that 1 have insisted on this lanwuawo. the United States agrecing to refrain } from preasing for compensation and for any pecu- | and tmportant aa itis to both parties and to es | uiary awards of the above-mentioned bor KNOK, NO. XIV. GENERAL SCLENCK = mr, LONY Lord Granville proposes the following troductory part of the note submitted Lo you by my telegram Of 30th :. “3in—T have laid before ng gen the despatch eased to you by Mr. Kish on the iéth ult., of which yon furnished me with a copy on the 1st inst. { informed you in my letter of the 20th of March that Mer Majesty's government, in communicating | to you the grounds on which they hold that the jaulma for Indirect losses are excluded from the 8 pe and intention of the reference to the ‘tribunal of Arbitration at Geneva, did not wish to commence a diplomatic controversy, but merely to comply with the desire substantially expressea by the Soserpent of the United States to be advised of the reasons which had prompted the declaration made by me on behalf of Hor Majesty's government on the 3d of Febraary. Her Majesty's government are stil of the same mind; and, although they cannot admit the force of the partial rejoinder which Mr. Fish has made to that statement of their redsons, they agree with Mr. Fish in seving no advantage in the continu. ance of an argumentative discussion on the sub- ject. It will, however, be understood that if I do not review the matter of Mr. Vish’s despatch it is not from an assent to his positions, but from a hope that a way mnay be found without prejudice to the arguments heretofore advanced by Her Majesty's government to avoid further controversy. In the full expectation therefore that an arrangement, satisfactory to beth countries wil! bo accepted by the government of the United States I preceed to state the views of Lier Majesty's povornment CHE NO. XV. MR. FISH TO GRNERAL SONENOK, WASHINGTON, May 4, 1872. The President regrets that Her Majesty's govern: meut have not thought proper to make tie propo- sal mentioned in my telegram of the 27th April, which this government had been led to hope might afford a solution of the differences between the two governments with regard to the arbitration now pending under the Treaty of Washington, The nature and terms of tiie proposi- tion contained in your telegram of the 30th April are such that {t cannot justify his assent. He cannot consent to any proposition which, by tmpiica- tion or inference, withdraws any part of the claims or of the case of this government froin con- sideration of the tribunal. The British government propones that the views heretofore presented by ‘hem, that certatn of the claims put forth by the United States are not within the province of the tribunal, be continued as thetr principle of action and conduct, and that in recognition of such prin- eiplo un assurance bo reciprocally given by both parties. Tre United States do not entertain the views thus presented by Her Majesty’s government, and cannot onter into 2a assurance on the basis of such principle, the proposed Init to the agree- ment of the British government to a stipulation not to advance claims of that nature, of similar cases and similar circumstances. No two cases are similar, and circumstances similar to those arising since the rebellion cannot occur to Great Britain, consequently the terms of the pro- posed agreement guarantee nothing to this gov- ernment. The proposal prevents any expression of opinion or of Judgment by the tribunal on the class of claims referred to, and thus virtually de- nies what this government believes, that the tri- bunal has jurisdiction over all the claims which have been put forth, Under these circumstances the President is pompaued to adhere to the opinton that it is within the provinee of the arbitra- tors at Geneva to consider all the claims, and to determine the ability of Great Britain for all the claims which have been put forward by the United States, FISH, Secretary. NO. XVI. GENERAL SCHENCK 70 MR, FISH. LONDON, May 5, 1872. Your telegram of yesterday ‘eived to-da: Will endeavor to see Granville to-night, or Catt te morrow. Willurge bim to modify his proposal, in accordance with your views. Will you examine it, inciuding introductory paragraphs, as given in my telegrams of April 80 and May 3, and take it for a basis? Suggest exactly what modifications would make it possible for the President to assent to it; also give me a draft of such reply as you would be willing to make. I am confident this govern- ment will not agree to the last paragraph of your Ma Ser of April 27. They may agree that if the United States will engage not to pee for award for indirect damages nothing need 6 said Ahout any modification of the original cases, nor whether such BBE ay M4 a pipiarowal or not a withdrawal of ay part of that case. Rather than agree to submit the indirect claims to the | judgment of the tribunal, I apprehend this govern- ment, backed by Parliament, would cease negotia- tions, and make an absolute declaration against proceeding with the arbitration. Could the Presl- dent assent to their offer if I can get the followiAg Substitute for what I telegraphed April 80’—“Her Majesty's government are now ready to state that if the United States will and do agree not to press for a pecuniary award before the Tribunal of Arbl- tration at Geneva, on account of claims for indirect losses or war sane the increased premiums of insurance, the transfer of American shipping and the prolongation of the war—then Her Majesty’s government will and do on their part engage and stipulate that, should Great Britain at any time in the future be a belligerent, while the United States 1s a neutral, and should there be any fallure on the part of the United States to observe their neutral obligations, Great Britain will make or adyance no complaints or claims against the United States by reason or on ac- count of any indirect, remote or consequential results of such failure,” This rule or principle not to advance or press complaints or clialms for indi- rect, remote or consequential damages to be mutu- ally and reciprocaliy observed by both parties in the future. The notes which are exchanged on this subject to be presented to the Tribunal of Arbitra- tion and entered on its record. SCHENCK, NO. XVII. GENERAL SCHENCK TO MR, FISH. Lonpon, May 6, 1872. Hod two hours’ discussion with Granville last night. ‘To-day he handed me, as the result of con- ference with his colleagues, the following amended | ila Compare it with their former offer and form me how far you can assent or must object. L told him I thought it not modified so as to be yet Majesty's government are ready to engage that in satisfactory, but agreed to submit it to you:—“Her the event of the government of the United States agreeing, the arbitrators are not to have regard in any award they may make to the claims for indl- rect losses—namely, the transfer of the American shipping, the increased premiums of insurance and the prelongation of the war. Her Majesty’s governup ent will on their — agree that the view which t Hy have heretofore presented of such+ claims shall be their principle of future action and conduct, and they are ready in pursuance of the re- Sapien of such principle, to give assurance to the United States that if Great Britain should at any time hereafter bea belligerent while the United States are neutral, Great Britain will never advance any claims inconsistent with that principle.” Such an engagement, for the future, being reciprocally given by both parties. The notes which are ex- changed on this subject to be presented to the T buual of Arbitration and entered on its record. In the gone, paragraph he strikes arse my sug- gestion, the words, ‘without bs, judice to the argu- ments heretofore advanced by Her sa "8 Pe: SC! CK. ernment.”? NO. XVII, MR. FISH TO GENERAL SCHENCK. WASITINGTON, May 6, 1872. Your telegram received during the night. An agreement which is to bind the future action of this government can be made only by treaty, and ‘would require the assent of the Senate. Should the tribunal decide that a nation is not responsible in pecuniary damages forthe Kola katt results of a failure to observe its neutral obligations, such de- cision could not fall to be regarded as sottling the question between the two governments in the fu- ture. If the Britisn government desire to open ne- Pes to define by treaty the extent of liability for consequential dainages, resulting from a failure of observance of neutral obligations, the President wiil carefully consider any proposals tn that direc- tion. FISH, Secretary. NO. XIX. MR. FISH TO GENERAL SCHENCK. WASHINGTON, May 7, 1872. The President earnestly desires to do everything consistent with his duty to the country and with the great interests to the future of both gov- eraments and to the principles so important to civilization as are involved in the treaty, to pvoid the possibility of ita failure. Thi goverii’cut is of opinion that the submission of what are calicd the Indirect claims ia within the intent of the treaty, and that thg consideration of those claims 1s within the gt ge) of the fribu- nal. The President alone has not the power fd change or alter the terms or the principles of a treaty. He is of the opinion that the Soageedcn expressed in a instruction of 27th April went to the extent of his authority, acting without the assent of the Senate, The your telegram of last even! heory antagonistic to this principle. The Presi- dent Is anxious to exhaust all proper efforts to Teach a settlement of the important questions and the vast Interests to two States submitted to the ‘Trib of Arbitration, if it can be done without the rifice of a principle and consistently with the dignity and the honor of the govern- ment. He will, therefore, be willing to consider and, Y east , Will present for the consiteration of the Senate any new article which may be pro- posed by the Dritish government, which, while it setues the principle involved in the presentation of what are called the indirect claims, will remove the diferences wiich have arisen between the two governments in thetr construction of the treaty. FISH, Secretary. NO. XX. GENERAL SCHENCK 0 MR. FISH. Lonpon, May 7, 1612. Your telegram of yesterday was received this morning. After some discussion Lord Russell's motion was postponed yesterday to next Monday, on Lord Granville’s promise that on or before that day he would produce the correspondence or make a statement #8 to the position of the negotiations now going on. This was only acceded to upon a distinct assurance being given that the government would not retract its position that the claims for indirect damages are not within the intention and scope of the reference. To this, I am sure, the; adhere, if no agreement or adjustment be made be- tween now and next Monday. I have little doubt that they will make a declaration which will be DECISIVE AGAINST SUBMISSION TO ARBITRATION, and will have the nearly, if not quite, unanimous support of both Houses of Parliament, Desirable PIN ae submitted in Ing is based upon a THURSDAY, MAY. I6, 1872—TRIPLE SHEfr. mations 6 have & eu. te axbiteetere. tay ation ts not in pecuniary damages for consequential results of failure to observe neu- tral ol tions, I see no chance of getting this gov- ernment to agree in terms to a submission, 80 a8 to obtain such decision. They will not consent to unite in asking the tribunal for an opinion on the queatien: although we should say that we expected they have every reason to feel confident that opinion would be against aMrming such national respon- sibility. The above portion of this telegram I have read to Lord Granvill have his admission vuat itis@ correct statement. May I that if Re do not mean to decide that no other way can found out of the controversy, and, therefore, the arbitration and treaty must fail, you will conclude to instruct me expliclily on their proposals comnau- uicated to you in my telegrams of the Sth and 6th? SUHENCK, NO. MK, PISH TO GENERAL SCARNOK, WASHINGTON, May 8, 1872. All the propositions made by the British govern- ment involve covertly, probably without de e what this government cannot agree to—name! the withdrawal from the province of the tribunal what we bellgve to be entirely within their com tence. Ineed not repeat our conviction that the arbitrators have the right to decide whether tho claims to which Great Rritain objects are or are not admissible; that the United States will be contented to abide their decision, whether favor- able or adverse to that class of cla! The propo- sition of the British government 18 upon the basis that the view which they have heretofore presented shall be a principle of future actton and conduct, The view which they have presented is not a principle, but an opinion as to the construction of a specific treaty, aad is applicable only to ons pending dif- ference on an incidental and temporary question, and cannot be a principle of future action. government holds a directly opposite view with regard to the competence of the Tribunal to consider the validity of the claims, and although sincerely destrous‘of coming to an honorable under- standing, cannot adopt the British view, or make it the is of @ reciprocal engagement. In m; Gegea of yesterday 1 explained that the Presl- don CANNOT AND WILL NOT WITHDRAW ANY POINT of what has been submitted within his construction of the intent and berth of the treaty. Ifthe British government persist in their demand, the re- sponsibility of whatever failure of the treaty may, ensue must rest with them, as you will have advised them of the im) tbility result- ing as well from the constitutional inability of the President to withdraw what this government is of opinion has been submitted within the extent and meaning of the fees as from his unwillingness to compromise the rights and dignity of the govern- ment by yielding to a demand not jounded on right or sustained by any valid construction of the treaty, He hoped, however, that the British government may see the way to maintain the treaty THE SUGGESTION OF A NEW ARTIOLE, as mentioned in my telegram of yesteruay. Should they not adopt this suggestion the inference will be almost unavoidable that they have deliberately ae- termined to abrogate the treaty. If, however, they adopt the suggestions you may say that the pro- bablilty is that Congress will adjourn about the latter part of this month. Time may be saved, therefore, if negotiations on this point should be conducted here rather than in London. If they desire such negotiations, it may be advisable, to gave time, that they give instruction to their Mints- ter here. You will keep me advised as to the pro- bable action of the British government, so that the President may communicate the correspondence to Congress on Monday, in case the British goyern- ment intends to break tho inion FISH, Secretary, NO. XXII. GENERAL SOHENCE TO MR, FISH. LONDON, May 9, 1872, Had interviews with Granville yesterday and last evening. Cabinet long in session. Instead of proposing new article to treaty, ey ren inter- change of notes, and are willing to further modify their note. Ishall tell Lord Granville this morning that in your telegram of April 27 you went as far as it is possible to go without concurrence of Senate. Just received your long telegram of yesterday, which is being deciphered. Will recelve and for- ward No, — until I know what it contane ENOK, NO. XXIL GENERAL SCHENCK TO MR. FISH. 18 S foxnon, May 9, 1872. In the long interview with Lord Granville this evening I fully presented and urged the views and positions contained in your telegram of yesterday. I find this government makes a great and apparently insurmountable objection to the adoption of a new article, on the ground that the language describing consequential damages must necessarily be so broad that it would proba- bly commit both governments beyond what they would either of them wish tobe bound. They pre- fer an interchange of notes, because by that form they can narrow the agitation so as to relate only to the actual points or subjects of difference. have stated decidedly as to avy interchange of notes that the President without the assent of the Senate will not go beyond the suggestion made in your telegram of April 27. Lord Granville seems to think that, 80 far as the ancy for want of con- stitntional powor ia concerned, the President might perhaps be willing to submit notes to the Senate their advice. Would he do that? I asked Lord Granville, as you instructed me, to ‘ee, In order to save time, that negotiations on th: int may be conducted at Washington. If he declines It would relieve me from @ painful responsibility, in- creased immeasurably by having to correspond through the difficult and unsatisfactory medium of the telegraph. His Lordship’s last words, after more than two hours’ conversation, were as fol- lows :— carefully avoid anything like menace, but in conse. quence of the views and information you have presented to me yesterday aud to-day I take an unfavorable view of the chances of any settlement. I told him Iwas getting to be of the same mind, SCHENOK, NO. . GENERAL SCHENCK TO MR. FISH. LONDON, May 9, 1872. Lord Granville proposes to modify his amended note, which I telegraphed you on the 6th, by sub- stituing “they will not bring for considera- tion the indirect cialms before the arbi- trators” for the words “the arbitrators are not to have regard in any award that they make to the claims for indirect losses.” I pro- mised him 1 would submit the change to you, but thought it would be considered more objectionable than before, inasmuch as the United States insist that those claims are of right fully before the tri- SCHENCK. bunal. NO. XXV. GENERAL SCHENCK TO MR. FISH. LONDON, May 10, 1872, Lord Granville has this moment sent @ mes: requesting, me to telegraph you immediately that a Cabinet meeting will be held this morning, and that he wishes me to meet him afterwards. This looks like reconsideration of what he said yesterday. I have come to the conclusion that they have two reasons for their conduct—one an unwillingness on the part of Mr. Gladstone to seem toretract the extreme position he took nt the beginning as to the interpretation of the treaty; the other an actual unwillingness to accept any rule to limit claims against neutrals in the future, their only object being to get rid by an arbitration of the demand of the United States, SCHENCK, GENERAL SCHENCK TO MR. FISH, Loxpon, May 10, 1872. Lord Granville a few minutes since submitted to me in person the following draft of an articie which, if the government of the United States think fit to adopt, will be accepted by Her Majesty's govern- ment. Imade no comment on it, but said [ would telegraph it to you immediately. The Supplementary Article. “Whereas the government of Her Britannic Majes- ty has contended in the recent correspondence with the government of the United States as followa:— Namely, that such indirect claims as those for the national losses stated in the cases presented on the part of the government of the United States to the ‘Tribunal of Arbitration at Geneva to havo been sus- tained by the loss in the transfer of the American commercial marine to the British flag, the enhanced payments of insurance, the prolongation of the war and the addition of a large sum to the cost of the war and the suppression of the rebellion, firstly, Were not included in the Treaty of Washing- ton, and further and secondly, should not be ad- mitted in principle as growing out of the acts com- mitted by particular vessels, alleged to have been enabled to commit depredations upon the shipping of a belligerent by reason of such want of diligence in the performance of the neutral obligations as that which is imputed by the United States to Great Britain; and “Whereas the government of Her Britannic ajesty has also declared that the principle involved in the second of the contentions hereinbefore gct forth will guide their conduct in future; and “Whereas the President of the United States, while adhering to his contention that the said claims were included in the treaty, adopts for the future the principle contained in the second of the sald contentions so far as to declare that it will horeafter guide the con- duct of the government of the United States, and the two countries are therefore agreed in this re- ct. ner consideration thereof, the President of the United States, by and with the advice and cons sent of the Senate thereof, consents that he will make no claim on the part of the United States in respect of indirect losses as aforesald before the ‘Tribunal of Arbitration at Geneva.” SCHENCK. TAKING POISON BY MISTAKE, jerrman Born, a shoemaker, who we te Wultsranba swallowed a solution of oxalic acid, used in business, in mistake for brandy. it produced | infammation of the stomach, which could not be allayed. Death en- at 163 Broome street, his place of et Se jonday Coroner Young etd an ine quest on the body. | long duration, most of the men Me an THE STRIKES. » The Carpenters Nearly All Re- turmed to Work. Strike of the Stair and Cabinet- Makers, —-—___ A Row on First Avenue—A Striker Clubbed by’ the Police—-The Leaders Counsel Modera- tion to Insure Success, Contrasted with the previous days of the woek,, the excitement yesterday around Magonio Hatt, the headquarters of the carpenters on atrike, hag greatly diminished. The majority of the men om strike have returned to work, and the reat are ex- Pected to follow them in a day or two, There’ have been more than three thousand men ont of work, but a calculation made yesterday showed that they all have resumed work but five hundred, Whose bosses still remain intractable. One hundred and twenty firms have submitted to the inevitable, including the leading ones of the city, none holding out but a few of the smaller ones, whose action, though unimportant so far as the ultimate conse- quences are concerned, is yet snfMicient to give trouble, by prolonging tho strike and keeping & number of men from work, The carpenters organized yesterday morning et eight o'clock, Michael Pardy in the chair, and come Tmittees were a6 usual appointed to look after the shops which still adhered to the ten hour system and consult with the bosses. A report was received from Hoe's shop stating that he had employeda number of men under the eight ‘hour system, bat that, on the other hand, he had discharged a num, ber of men who belonged to the union, The mom in his shop belong principally to the American Traders’ Exchange, and manifested some unwiill ness at first to participate in the movement. ‘The report that Hoe had acceded In some measure te the cient hour meeting was received with shouts of applause, but his subseqnent conduct in dis- shares the union men met with marked disap- ro" Great excitement was occasioned in the hall the return of a delegation sent to the sho) Mandeville & Seiger, Twenty-third street and First avenue, The men looked as if they had met with @ reception; one was bleeding and had his clothee tern. They reported that on going to the sho) they asked for a consultation with the men, that they might reason them into leaving off. work and enrolling themselves a8 members of the Union. ‘The boss consented to allow a five minutes’ talk and left the shop. Inducements were held out the workmen to strike, whicb they were disp to do; but at the expiration of the five minutes the boss returned, accompanied by Captain Cameron fond a posse of police. He told them that their five minutes had expired and that they must leave or the lice would expel them by force. This they did not lo, but continued to talk business. The police were ordered in and a rongh and tumble struggle ensued, The polipenten used their clubs, particularly Omoe® Smith, who tore aman’s clothes and clubbed him severely. They were expelled from the shop, whi the police still continued to guard, and were fot to return to the hallin a high state of excitement and indignation, A scene of uproar ensued, ant the moderation which has hitherto prevailed seemed about to be disturbed. One excited speaker asserted that the police were opposed to the work- ingmen and interfered in the interest of the bosses. The temporary Chairman, Mr, Suilivan, counselled quietness, and suggested that a committee he fppointed to it upon Superintendent Kelso, at headquarters, and endeavor to obtain justice and redress and @ Warrant against Officer Smith. This, after sor consultation, Was agreed to, anda deputation icked men were selected for the mission. hey went to headquarters their affidavits w 1 not be received, and they were informed that thé pores were acting under instructions and could not e interfered with. When they returned unsuccess- fully to the hail great dissatisfaction prevailed, and the police were freely censured. The Chairman entreated the men to use no vio- lence in visiting shops, but to endeavor by moral snasion to induce the men who remained at work, and as much as posaible to avoid encoun- ters with the police. By firmness and eaceful measures their success had alret een reat, beyond all expectation, and if would be a pity now, almost at the close of the strike, to do anything that would mar the respect- ability of the movement. His remarks were listened to with attention and a disposition shown to listen to his advice. The excitement was grada- ally allayed and the meeting resumed its usual appearance. report was received from the shop of Mr. Kuoff, Twenty-fifth street, that he will give his men the Sees hours provided that all the other employers willdo the same. Another report stated that a committee who had visited Mr. Keeley, one of the oldest bosses, had used him somewhat roughly, and a motion was made that five or six respectable mem should be appointed to wait upon him and ask him to join the cight hour rule. This was passed. ne of the committee of four from the At mated Society addressed the ineeting -briefly. sald that there were a number of men from his society in the hall, erg A) assist in visitin; bee ‘still opposed to the strike. Although the op- position to the movement was in a great measure over, there was a great deal yet to be done, ay wens was ventige ahd to nee oe i HH until every vestige of 0) S10) e e! rule had been hurled into a Ro . He counsel them to be united and vigorons, and as the moment of final success approached to give a poaeell a stone nal and a pull together, and the viol would complete. His remarks were recel\ with great applause, From the conversation that ensued in the hall i¢ seemed to be the prevailing opinion that the great labor demonstration in Chicago yesterday was bat the precursor of a grand strike for the eight hours, The unprecedented number of buildings that are being erected in Chicago this scason would make this movement casy; and it is said that the de- monstration would not have been attempted if there had not been something else looming behind. It is believed that the tradesin this city have bren tn communication with those of Chicago, At any r: great enthusiasm was manifested in the carpente: meeting yesterday on the receipt of the news, Tho miners’ strike in Michigan and the various labor movements throughout the Union were justly and intelligently commented upon, and sympathy and succor promised if necessary. In the afternoon more reports were received from the remaining shops, and it was ascertall that all the men, with the exception of a few who were employed on hurried jobs and in remote places, were on the strike. e Amalgamated So- clety has been almost completely successful, their organization and Bowes convincing the bosses that it was as well to give in, and all but a very few were again at their work yesterday. ‘The following are the names of the additional firms which have notifled their men that they may return:—Hemon, West Thirty-ffth street; Brown, Forty-second street; Cutuire, Thirty-sixth street; Groody & Co., Forty-second street; Dutchy, Forty- second street; Palmetier, Forty-second street; Con- nor, Twenty-ninth street, has given eight hours to two of his men who did not strike, but has discharged all the rest; Powers & St Bass & Curry, Boner & Harper and a number others. The meeting continued in session all the day, up to a late hour last night, to receive the re- ports that were constantly coming in, At the night session the numbers in the hall were largely a mented, the'men Who had resumed work coming sympathize with thelr less fortunate brethren. Speeches were made by representatives of the Car- penters’ and Bricklayers’ Associations and other trades, and the support necessary promised to in- sure an early termination of the strike. The meet ing broke up with cheers. pane the day 150 more new members were enrolled, making in all nearly one thousand since the beginning of the week. One and all are unanimous in assert that they wilt inaké iO compromise with their employers, and ‘will on no account consent to be paid by the hour, ‘THE STAIRMAKERS. ‘The stairbuilders, as already intimated, have struck, and, as they are well organized, they will make a good fight. It is not thought that they will meet with much opposition from the bosses, who have manifested a sition to ape to the men aud prevent any interruption of the trade. Several empioyers have already given in and returned fa- vorable answers to the men. A mass meeting was held last evening at the hall 147 West Thirty-second street, which was largely attended. Great enthu- siasm’ prevailed, and resolutions adopted to not feld to the employers until the full demands had been acceded to. ‘THE BRICKLAYERS. The employing bricklayers have held several meetings this week to discuss the eight-hour moye- ment. The consultations have all been held with closed doors, by a committee Gp de) of Peter Tostevin, A. 'Tilter, Joseph Smith, John H. Master- gon, Owen Moran and John Conover, and the com- mittee on the part of the employers, John Bran- ning and Richard Matthews, of the Liters bed Union. The matter was discussed in all its bear- ings by both sides, and the 1st of July suggested by the employers as the time for the elght hours to go into effect. This 1s satisfactory to some of the men, but others object to it and assert that there is no use in walting until the business begins to slacken for the attainment of their rg 8, When they cam achieve their object now. It is probable, however, that the employers will carry their point, and the workingmen should act more wisely by abiding by their decision, The strike of the cabinetmakers has not been of J returned to work, The furniture trade 1s unusually good now, and it would not have suited the employers te allow their men to remain Idle very Iepg. ‘The strikes are the general theme of conversation in the city, and business has in some measure been v } t affected by them. The employers do not mee we much sympathy, the feeling being gon the workin mon, The success they hat enced is extraordinary, ant is a str tion of the powor of li