The evening world. Newspaper, September 29, 1920, Page 2

Y ie @mtend eve! 4 Dpeeball is known, =~ heed wave it to him T know nothing a 3 “EL didn't get any money until after © the fourth game and then I got $10,- I kept $5,000 and the other wis Joe Jackson. pi | *L wan supponed to get $20,000 and Was to get $20,000, All fot was 95,000. 1 gave Jackson his money.” . “apiece 1” “Yea, apiece! 1 said that wan't enough money to fool with,” Wiliams Sontidued. “1 was informed by Gandil ¢ ‘that whether or not 1 took any action ‘the games would be fixed, So 1 told them anything they @ia would be to me, if It was going to be done anyway, that I had no money—1 ‘May as well get what | could. “I baven't seen those gamblers from ‘hat day to this. 1 was supposed to Bet $10,000 after the second gumy ‘when we got back to Chicago. I “Giant get this wntil the fourth game @bd@ he the said the gamblers had ‘Deen called off and I figured then there was 0 double croun some piace” | Three gamblers will be indicted to- Gay on charges of conspiracy by the ~ Cook County Grand Jury, according Replowic. “Replogle also stated three other Dasddall players, none of whom i# fonnected with the White Box club, ‘would be indicted. No umpires aro ‘under investigation, he added. Evidence already placed. before the Grand Jury, it is known, involves Abo Attel, former prixefighter; Lee Ma- wee, Hal Chase and Heinle Zimmor- Wan, former members of the Giunta; three Eastern gamblers whose names Bave not been divulged and at least two National League players. Hartley Replogle, Assistant State's . Attorney, who to-day confirmed these ‘Waots, admitted that ten or tweive indictments wero in prospect. ' The cight players indicted are “ap- , Parently only tools of a gambling _ wing” according to Harry Brigham, foreman of the Grand Jury, The Femifications of this ring, he said, ere tiat profersional Indictment of his seven players | @ost Charles A. Comiskey, owner of the White Sox, $230,000, the amount for which he could have sold their worviees, he said to-day. The club ‘owner fixed the valuation of the seven ats Joe Jackson, $50,000. | Buek Weaver, $50,000. Fred MoMullin, $10,000, + John, Heyal President of the Nationa: League, who was to testify before the Grand Jury to-day, sald he would present evidence that an en- tirely different clique of gamblers ‘ from those allege: to have conspired 4, With the eight White Sox players has operated in the National League. Heydler agid the clique operating with National League players did not pay.a fixed sum to players for “throw- ing games,” but gave the crooked players one-third of the winnings, More offers of confession of con- apitacy to corrupt the 1919 world peries have been made, Attorney Al- fred Austrian, representing Cha) Comiskey, announced to-day. Hi fused to give the names of the men who bad made the offers or my whether or not they were among the ‘eight indicted. Jean Dubuc, former pitcher for the *. New York Nationals, now with the “@oledo American Association team, was ordered to appear Oct. 4 before the Grand Jury in 4 wire from the Btate's Attorneys office to-day. « Eddie Cicotte, the first of the Fwhite Sox players to confess the conspiracy to throw the 1919 world series, b@trietily left Chicago to-day, It waa reported that he went to his farm near Detroit. _ Cloatte told the jury that he under- * gtood the clght players were to get * $80,000, but that they wore doublo- croused by the gamblers and, #o far as he knew, only three—himses, Jack- eon and Willlams—ever received any +} money for throwing the series. The amounts they were to have received, LLERTON T {me my price. 1 told them $10,000. And eS 7 T'm & crook and I got $10,000 for being @ crook.” “Don't tell it to me," nid Com- lwkey, “Tell it to the Grand Jury, Portions of the confession of Pitcher Eddie Clootte and Fielder Joe Jackson of the Chicago White Sox revealed yesterday by court off clals were amplified to-day vy fur- ther Information from court officers. Clootte and Jackson did not make formal statements, ag mort of the Jury proceedings were kept secret, pecially a® to developments likely te involve other persons in legal pro- ceedings. The unofficial account of tiie stories of these players follows: | “Rieberg and Gandil and MeMulin were at me for a week before the World's Series started,” he said, “They wanted me to be crooked. 1 didn't know—d needed the money. | had the wife and the kide—the wife and kids don't know Mage don't know what they'll think, I bought « farm. Thero was a $4,000 mortgage on It, There isn't any morteage on |i now. 1 paid it off with the crooked money, df “The eight ef up—the eight under ndictment—got together in my room three or four days before the game started. Gandil the master of eeremonies. We talked about throw: ing the series—decided we could get away with it. We agreed to nm “1 was thinking of the wife and kids 4 how | needed the money. 1 told them | had to have the cash in ad- vanoe, I didn’t want any checks | @idn't want any promises, I wanted the money tn bills, 1 wanted it be- fore 1 pitched a ball, “We all talked quite a while about it, Land the en others, Yos, all of w decided to do our best to throw the games to Cincinna! Then Gandit and MeMullin took us all, one by one, way from the pthera. They asked I told them that $10,000 was to be paid in advance. “It was paid, Ten thousand dollars, What I bad asked—what I had de- manded, Ten thousand dollars, cash im advance, there in my fingers. 1 bad been puld, and 1 wedt on 1 threw the gume, “If 1 had reaiized what that meant to me, the taking of that dirty, crooked money—the hours of mental torture, the days and nights of living with an uncleam mind, the weeks and months of going along with aix of the seven other crooked players, and holding @ guilty secret, and of going THE EVENING WORLD, WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 29, LLS OF WATCHING GAMES FOR OR GANBLER IN Itt day in the care of bailiffs of the court, with whom they left as they Onighed thoir statements to the jury. These statements followed talks with | Justice McDonald, whieh in turn fol- lowed long consultations with Comis- key and Austrian, Then came the story of overtures from the “go-between,” who was Gandil, Clootte gaid; of Cleotte's in- siatence on receving the money in advance, of the “go-between's" In- sistence that the money would be pald “when the goods were deliy- ered; of Cleotte’s refusal to have any- thing further to do with the fixing; of wlong with the boys who had etayed straight and clean and honest—boys who had nothing to trouble them— way, It was bell.” Jackson confessed to the jury: “1 Joined the crooks through the influ- ence of Gandil, He is from Arizona and used to go with gamblers, [ wanted $20,000, but all 1 got was $6,000. Thin @as handed to me ina dirty envelope by Letty Willlame, I made an awful holler and threatened to tell all, “Risberg told me he would bump me off, That wan why I was guarded. They said to me, ‘You poor simp, go ahead and squawk, Where get off; If you do we'll ail any a liar, And every honest base- player in the world will say you're a Har, You're but of luck. Some of the boys were promised a lot more than you, and got # Jot less.’ “And that's why 1 went down and told Judge McDonald and told the Grand Jury what I knew about this frame-up, And I'm giving you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been/ talking about the third game of the World's Series being square, Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it, and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitehing. 2 gambles ball them. “They've hung it on me. ruined me when 1 went to the ship- yards, but I don't care what hap- They 1 guess I'm through with baseball, 1 Wasn't Wise cnough like Chick was to beat them to ft, but some of them will sweat before the show ts over.” Dramatic as were the developments ind sensatonal ae Were the revel one whieh resulted in the indict. pons bow, waid, were: Eddie Cicotte, pitcher, $10,000; Claude Williams, pitcher, $10,000; Joe Jackson, outfielder, $5,000; “Buck” Weaver, third base, $5,000; “Happy” Felscb, outfelder, $1,000; Charles Ris- Derg, shortstop, $2.0 Shick" Gan- dil, first base, $20,000; Fred MoMullin, utility, $16,000, “Bhoeleas” Joe jackson also con- sfessed that he accepted a bribe of $4,000 with a promise of $15,000 more for making errors that aided the Hox im losing the series . President Comiskey of the White ‘ Box says he will rebuild his team in time to be a competitor still for the American League championship. Col, Jacob Ruppert and Capt Huston have offered the entire Yankoe team to Comiskey to enable him to + Keep bis organization in the race, if he requires help. “It is a splendid offer and one | ap- Preciato from the bottom of my heart," Comiskey said. “However, | eannot accept it. The league rules forbid any such action at this stage ef the game,” ‘The Grat big break in the solution ame when Kddie Cieotte, the piteher, ‘went to the office of Charles A. Com- fokey with an offer to confess. "I dont’ hat you'll think of Yy , “but 1 got ments of the eight Chicago players, \Alfred 8. Austr attorney for the White Sox, declared that they had “merely scratched the surfa that a lot more was yet to be learned of the exact nature and extent of the plet his final naming of « price, $10,000; of further wrangles over advance pay- ment; of Clootte # refusal to have any money handed to him directly, “The night before the first gam: We said, between sobs, “I found the money-—$10,000-—under my pillow.’ The sensation created by the con- fession of Cicotte had hardly abated when Attorney Austrian appeared with Joe Jackson In tow. There was another conference In the chambers of Judge McDonald; another meeting with Assistant State's Attorney Re- plogle; another shamefaced ball- player running the gantlet of newa- paper camera men to the Grand Jury room. fs \ WAL! of it and he sald Bill Burns and Abo Attell, and that a man named Sork or Zork and two brothers from Des Moines, Ia., were handling the money. Itt! him that I did not belleve the Vhite Sox woild lone, and that while hey might do business with one or wo that did not make it @ sure thing. be sald the entire team was in it. I did not believe the man and yet was worried. That night (Nere was a party at a road house in Kentucky. No ball players were present. I left the party About 10 o'clock and motored back to Cincinnati, going to the Western MTnion office. Upon returning to the hotel. I met BIN Burns, Burns ts a man whom L have always trusted. When we trav- eled together with the White Sox Burns waa my pal and friend. I con- sidered him honest but a born gam- bier, We walked across the street to the Gibson House and I asked Bill how he was betting. He sald: “Cet wine and bet on the Reds.” Knowing that Burns hated the Chi- cago club I thought he was just preju- diced, 1 left him and after visiting with Ed Hawk, the manager of tho Gibson House, I returned to the Sin- ton. There I met @ man named Hines from Chicago, who asked me whether Jackson shed no tears. He merely the rumors he had heard were true, hung his head and covered his taco He paid he had been told that the with his hands. Replogle nursed him | series was fixed and that Cicotte was along and humored him—tried to going to lose the drat game. shod away camera men who wouldn't} I went to my room much worried shoo. There was a volley of flashes. /@nd wrote, a telegram to all the Jackson cursed newspaper men, gam- | Papers receiving my acounts of the} blera, I} and Grand Juries alike | game, saying: “Advise all not to bet | and dove for security behind the |0D thin series, ugly rumors afoat." jury room door with more speed than CROOKEDNESS NO SURPRISE TO he ever showed on baseball paths. MATHEWSON, His story, it was learned, was con- Christy Mathewson was reclining frmation of Cloott It was the tale | ot hs bed in the room, and I told of a slow “fepling out" of avaricious | him what I had heard, He was quiet [players by Gandil, McMullin and Ris-|for a minute, then burst out and Derg, and, in his own cane, the story | saids of the “doublecross.” “Damn them, they deserve it, Jackson's price was $20,000—for booting a few and falling to hit when the hita would count. He confirmed Cicotte's story that the players who “wold out” had been dealt with individually, and (vat Gan» They whitewashed two players after I caught them with the goods and presented the aMdavitsa to them.” I suggested that I was sending a telegram and he advised aguinst {t, dil, Risberg and McMullin formed the }ao 1, tere it up. only clique “on the Ingide’ wfth the| Matty and [ talked for an hour, gamblers, He said the players had| discussing the possibility of crooked known, or suspected at ones who hod strayed into blers’ net, but that it had not been discussed during the sericea, William “Kid” Gleason, when met by an Axsoolated Press represonta- tive, smiled ond sald; work, He was of the opinion that no player could throw games suc- cessfully for any length of tine However, we arranged to sit to- gether and watch every move of the bilayers in the game. While we were talking one of te lepat, the the ards | ‘Well, I am glad this thing has|best known writers in Aimerica came come to a head and wound up the|into the room laughing. He sai way it did. 1 stil! have enough ball had been out with Duteh Fu , players to make an honest club, Lam the left-handed pitcher of the Reds, joing to take them to St. Louis and jand that Dutch was drinking. He fam sure that they will make a show-|sald (hat Dutch was still at it and lug for themselves. hed slipped away from Mo “We will give St, Louls a battle and scouta. Il remarked that it wae uw | we are guing to try to finish the sea- shame, and that I intended to tele- son without anothor defeat, regurdiess|phone Pat and give bim a chance pur wo |L called up and asketgor Moran, of what transpired to-day.” 0 = was told he Was not in. Then | Both Cleotte and Jackson are to- | | In tho first game Mathewson and ] 1 pat tog r udying every | of the player: I was watching Cicotte pitch, because I believed if | Py anything Was wrong it would be in i the pitching, Schalk secmed to be | (Continued) “What do you know?" he asked. |baving trouble, nd ney ing scabs aMaieeays sass oe with ha 4t Clootte and seeme shed “I'm wise," Tiretored, _ oy | With the way he was pitching, It was knew a place to get a drink, We went) "Nave you talked with Clootte?” he evident even from the stands that to a barroom and while there met a) asked | Clootte had iittte on . He gambler who used to hang around the| "No." Sieient wala ota thurs Cea eerene | ball teams in Pittwburgh. I do not| “Is Commy going to let Cleotte and of his. “shiner,” his most effective remember his name, if I ever did| Willams piteh all the games?” ball, He had told me himself, the know It, He asked casually how I| “I think not," I said stage 4 mee peers that his was betting and I replicd that I never | WANTED TO eS FIRST FIVE “rhe Rods were hitting pitching j knowing my opinion, and I laughingly | them he waked. His questions it looked had. He laid the ball up remarked that the Reds would Win) manner aroused my curiosity. I took five straight games, Ipstoad of I4UBH=| Hin to the old Burnet House bar and HELP WANTED—MALE, ing he looked surprised and went out,) we had drinks and talked. He told BOY 18 yeura, for night A short time later Jacknon and I were | me that it was framed to let the Reds work; $15 weekly for 5, ie entering the Sinton Hotel when this) win five straight games, and that ginner,’ Apply between 6 jgambler, standing with another man | Ciecotte and Williams had asked Giea- and 7, P. M. to» Foremen trom Chicago, stopped me and drew | son and Comiskey to let them piteh |mo aside, EVENING WORLD WRITER TELLS HOW others came.into the room and dla. cussed the fixing of the series, jaugh- ing, saying that If Dutch kept drink ing. 11 would spoll the frame-up. WATCHING -THE GAMES FOR CROOKED WORK, all the games, I asked who was back Park Row, f will oO Charles a, Comiskey, owner Set By Hugh &. Fullerton, of the Breatest characters baseball ev Chicago White Sox and one of honest Pr LY and of the highest type of after two months of work y seemingly with nothing on It. from the Watch his afte: I went press box downstairs to tching more clonely, and ing (wo innings went oid Matty that it did not f he was pitching anything and that some of the Inflelders would get murdered if he kept on that way. L Was commencing tw believe the storios we had heurd, but still could not believe he had gone wrong Iwas watching Gandil clodely be- cause of some things that Matty had told me about Hal Chase's style of playing first base. 1 saw nothing wrong with Gandil's work, Felsch who ix one of the best judges of fly balls tn the business, commenced to play centre field ns if buriesqueing the game, He misjudged fly balls that any other autfelder in the league could have caught. Cicotte handed Cincinnati! the first run by hitting a batter and lobbing balls to Daubort and Groh, In spite of his easy pitch- ing the Reds did not seem able to score although they were hitting viciously. ‘The score was tled in the fourth tn- ning when, with runners on first and second Kopf hit a ball on tho first bound to Cicotte, who grabbed tie ball. He held it too long, then turned and threw to second. Fiisbere came clear over second base to meet the ball, He caught it and stabbed back- ward with his foot, stopped and touched again and lost a double play that should have easy. Then Cicotte lobbed ball after ball and the Reds hit. Felsch misjudged two of thetr long drives in childish manner. The Reds scored five runs in that inning and Cicotte had delivered the goods. ‘The only remark made was by Matty, who turned to me after tho feilure to make the double play and remarked: “That's the firat thing that looked bad. That night Mont Tennes, the King of the Chicago gamblers told Com- tskey that something was wrong. The story was that a gambler named Pesch, in St, Louis nad come to Chi- cago ‘during the summer and had approached Tennes with a story that Gandil, Risberg and Flesch were on his pay roll and were to throw @ Kame a week for $200 cach. Tonnes, a White Sox fan, did not belleye the story and refused to have anything to do with the scheme. When he started betting on Chicago in the series he discovered that the ‘# of his bots were men who n mentioned as being in on 4 Comlakey his suspicions, iskey at once got busy. He get busy and trace down rumors. He sent for Jack He: the dier formed from an exquisite blending of Sumer, Coufectioner's Sugar and the Duts, Our regular De goods, re orice of MOLASSES DAINTIFS—A collection of in delicous goodies made from Pure ( ses and rich Dairy Butler. — The wee Pepperatat Cups, strings, Pull are | Wednesday AMERICAN FILLED World Composing Room, aaa fiulshed, delieu' Yored hard |] | Gitings of | I] tresented bewutitul |] | taney shapes, POUND BOX in| "many tints and 79c Stores, Boooklyn, Hoboken, | ‘The specified wetaht detectives and oth od Tip O'Neill and Joe O'Neill | cholwent Texas Pecan they «0 Thursday, Sept. 20th and BOth, at tue ynprecedenied Etlzabeth er has produced, a man of undoubted Sportsmanship, hag stated in Chicago |PLAYERS FACE JAIL iF THEY FAILED TO PAY TAX ON BRIBES |U. S. to Stuxty Income ‘Returns and Prosecute Any Who €vaded Provisions. WASHINGTON, Sept, 2. HOULD an investigution ds chue that the Chiago White Sox players who re- ceived money for “throwing” the 1919 World Series, failed to make 4 return to the Internal Revenue Bureau on these funds for pur- poses of axes, prosecutions will be instituted, it was said to-day by George B, Newton, Deputy Commissioner of the Income Tax Unit of the Bureau. Intentional evasion of the pro- visions of the Income ‘Tax Law ts 4 criminal offense, it was pointed out, and is punishable by a-fine of $10,000 or imprisonment for one year or both, president of the National League, and told him what he hgd heard. Tennex was a heavy loser on the first two |gamoa, and hedged to win back part Of his losses, In the second game Claude Will- tama seemed to be pitching well dur- ing the early innings. 1 registered In my score book “this fact; that he would pass a batter and that the first ball pitched to the next batter (Continued BEATS WIFE AND FIGHTS COP to Workh y Days. Patrick Maloy, twenty-nine, of No. 21 Oakiand Street, Brooklyn, threw a pot at Patrolman Liebman of Herbert Street Station when he interfered to- day while Maloy was being his wife, Helene. Liebman used his blackjack five times in taking Mayoy to the sta- tion, Once Maloy pulled out a knife and tried to slash the policeman Magistrate Folwell, in, Bridge Plaga. Court, went Maloy to the workhouse for ys for disorderly conduct for oy © Ta Ao PAAR An Unusual Opportunity for Candy Lovers To Get In On Something Big MAPLE PRCAN ‘KISSES—You know ‘em, Those big morsels Pure Vermont Maple of deliciousness 49c on wale Wednesday POUND BOX Our Big Daily Special For To-Morrow, Thursday, Sept. 30th favorites Twintes Oued Mena wists Curis, Batinett fae wad '® host of othern TA! a POURD HON practienlly all of the old-time ew Orlean Dpen Kettle eee! Attractions OHOCOLATE BRED ITAL CREAM S—There know these dellclous old fashioned goodlen, readily identified iu New York Newark, Paterson and of our famous Bitter Sweet 64 Chocolate, POUND Box Cc For exact location see telephone directory includes the container, a CROOKED WORK How The ‘Evening World Exnosed Crookedness In Organized Baseball Over Nine Months Ago ALL BETS ON SOX IN PENNANT RACE MUST STAND NOW Money ts Posted “Pay or Play” and So Gamblers Will Make Final Coup. CHICAGO, Sept, 29.—Now that the pennant hopes of the Box have fone glimmering, the gamblers will give the speculative public a parting wallop by confiscating all money bet on the Sox winning the American flag, Tho money ts bet “pay or play,” and bets cannot be declared off ex- cept between friends who do not insist upon the pound of flesh, Big money went up on the Sox three weeks ago, when they took the lead In the race, Most of it comes out of the stock yards district. It was. taken by race-bookers and sent to New York and Cleveland, Where the local teams were backed. The South Side fans are shriek- ing curses on players, games and wanbing! to-day. They have been the most loyal rooters for a score of years and have enabled Comiskey to bulld up one the finest baspbail plants in the coun- ATTELL ACCUSES ARNOLD ROTHSTEIN Ex-Prize Fighter Says He Ready to Blow the Lid Sky High. Abe Attell, the former featherweight champion, was angry when he learned that Billy Maharg. accused him of “fixing” jast year's World's Series with $100,000 at the Hotel Astor, There war 4 deal at the Astor, he sald, and he'd “shoot the lid aky high” with the story of It soon, but he was not a party to It. He accused Arnold Roth- atein of naming him tn oonnection with it. Attell said: “Youd cag say that the story placing the responsibility upon me for passing the $100,000 to the White Sox isa lie, It looks to me that Rothstein ig behind these stories, and I am sur- prised at this, beosuse I have been a good friend of Rothstein. “He is almply trying to pass the buck to me. It won't go. I have re- tained a lawyer to take care of my in- terests, and in a day or two I will tell what I know about this thing in a story that will shoot the lid sky hig! At Kothatein's home, No. %5 West Mth Street, a member bis family sald; “You can say that Maharg’s wiory ‘with regard to the meeting tn, the Hotel Astor is substantially cor- rect. Arnold Rothstein was never in on the deal at any stage." piascato GOOD FOR SPORT, SAYS RICKARD Action of Comiskey in Suspending Men Shows Straight Intent at the Head. “It's m good thing for baseball and all sport,” Tex Rickard, boxing pro noter and manager of Madison Square Garden, said to-day in commenting upon the indictment of the eight White Sox ball players. “We are all interested in clean sport of oll kinds and the action of owner Comiskey in wuspending the accused men should prove to the fans that the nen directing sports are a fous to keep them clean as the are to wateh clean sport." FRANKLIN, SIM READY: Gets in all the fine sh leaded glass effe period; single st clustered likealo 2 « 8 WEST 38th STREET SHIRTS OF Imported French Rayon — $400 For Which Our Custom Shop Rayon is a French fabric, shown Designed in periods, commas and colons; tiny French figures and a single hair on a coat sleeve, or TY 10 DSTRBUTE MILK IF SUPPLY - UTI BY FHT Mayor Hylan Promises It If Dairymen Will Send Their Products Here, By Sophie Irene Loeb. » Now that the city is faced with @ Porsible milk famine, such as it experienced at the hands of thé Milk” Trust on various occasions, because of notices these corporations have insged to dairymen that they will Purchase no more milk after Oct. 1. The Evening World, In an effort to forentall this deplorable condition, has asked the Mayor and the city au- thorities what move could be made, to secure proper terminal facilities for handling milk, should the Mil Trust attempt to force on the fublio the $100,000,000 canned milk supply. with which it is overstocked, Just how the Dairymen’s League will meet the challenge of the Milk Trust that it won't buy milk after Oct, 1 has not been disclosed, It looks, howe though the Milk Trust, with ite enormous overproduction of canned milk, Ie now making an effort to use the have the League quit manu- facturing milk in their co-opera- tive plafits up-State, so that the milk corporations may continue to hold the “balance of power,” as it were, in the canned milk corner of the industry, But the big question is, where do the consumer come in while th factions are fighting for milk profits’ The remedy would have been ap- parent were there a State Commission to handle this question, as has been fo strongly urged in the past by this newspaper, But what's to be done in ent of this emergency? consultation with Grover Whalen, Commissioner of Plant and Structures, as to the possibility of (Continued on Thirteenth Page.) GASOLINE PRICE. SOON WILL DROP, SAYS OIL HEAD Denver, Scept, 29, | T « price of gasoline will soon follow other commoditiees and decline In price, accond- ing toing to W. H. Barber of Min- neapolis. Barbebr is President of the W. H. Barbebr Company, smakers of oll products, and former President of the Independent Oil Men's Association, now in conven= tion here. “The price of gasoline Is too high,” Barber declared, “Millions of dollars are being spent to cone struct plants to manufacture by- products of petroleum, Eight of these huge plants will be in operas tion in Oklahoma, Kansas and ‘Texas soon after Jan. 1. ‘These plants will create & surplus and you can expect prices to drop.” ON MEN'S SHOPS TO-WEAR 57.50 irt shops of Paris, cts of the Tudor ripes intriguing as ck forrecollection!