The New York Herald Newspaper, January 31, 1879, Page 4

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4 THE INDIAN PROBLEN. General Crook’s Views Concerning the Wards of the Nation. WHY THE CHEYENNES FOUGHT. Breech-Loading Guns Render the Red Man Formidable. ceerenenenentaemonionn! THE TRANSFER OF THE INDIAN BUREAU, Report of the Joint Committee Opposing the Change. Omana, Jan, 27, 1879, ‘Tre telegraphic reports from Camp Robinson and from Omaha of the recent outbreak and bloody suniuilation of the main body of the Cheyenne Ind- jans have brought General George Crook, commend- ing the depurtinent, into marked prominence, and Lis opinions not only as to the action of the military | at Camp Robinson during this “outbreak, but con- cerning the cause therefor, the grievances of the Indians and the government's share of respon- sibility in the matter, have been in brisk de- mand. Until within a few days past, however, General Crook has been confined to his residence in this city with malarial fever, and has, therefore, been missing from his office at Fort Omaha, four miles distant. During his years of experience in frontier military departments and his dealings with the Ind- ians Crook has gained the reputation—well deserved, doubtless—of being as direct and honest as the Indian himself, In accordance with sn engagement previously made your correspondent called upon the General this morning, and the following interview took place:— GENERAL CROOK ON THE MAS6ACRE, CorrrsronpeNt—Have you any further informa» tion from Camp Robinson ? General Cnoox—Nothing more. The last news was of acharacter to leave little to follow it until the re- port of the board of officers now gathered there is ready. ConnespoxpeNnt—Was the sanguinary end of the ; Cheyenne pursuit unexpected to you? General Cxook—It was only what all who are familiar with Indian character would have expected after the Cheyennes decided not to return. There was not military force enough in this department to have taion them back alive. CoRRESPONDENT—Much sympathy has been sroused for the slangitered Cheyennes, particularly the women andchildren, Was it necessary that these should have been killed ? General Croox—Atter it was decided to remove the band the army hud simply to execute the order, peaceabiy if possible, by force if necessary, proceed- ing against them when it was necessary as against any other enemy. I do not suppose a woman or child was killed but by accident. Muny soldiers dis- played great gallantry in endeavoring to protect them. An effort was made to remove the children and care for them when it was decided to starve or freeze the Cheyennes into submission, The squaws, I understand, were well cared for when they separ- ated themselves from the band. When they had de- termined to die together rather than be removed they remained with the braves and took the chances of war ina hand-to-hand fight. These matters will be investigated by the board of officers. CoRrnEsPONDENT—There seems to be # general im- pression here that the Cheyennes started northward with peaceable intentions, and only becanse they were starved out; that no depredations or murders were committed until after they had themselves suf- fered from attacking companies of soldiers, and that even then the murders were done. by a few young braves against the advice of the others. Do you think this the truth? General Croox—I would prefer to express no opin- fon on the subject. It is proper matter for ju- dicial or military investigation, not for an expression of private opinion. It is true that they committed no murders or depredations after entering this de partment. I have my own opinions on the matter, formed upon the statements of others, The Chey- ennes first went to the south vqluntarily and with good feeling, and it would hardly be probable that they would prefer to die rather than return toward the,south without some reason. They were neither fools nor lunatics, end in deciding upon their course they knew as well as we the probable result, SUFFERINGS OF THE CHEYENNES. CornesponpEeNt—Of course they had nothing to hope from the civil authorities of Kansas? General Cnoox—Very little. A civil tribunal is not remarkable for leniency to Indians, particularly where they are members of a band which has com- mitted murders, I suppose they would all have been hanged in Kansas. CorREsronpeNtT—I believe you first brought the Choyennes into an agency, Will you give the facts in brief? . General Cnoox—In the fall of 1876, in ‘the Mackén- zie fight, the Cheyennes were badly worsted ana many killed. After the fight they were obliged to make that long, terrible march of 100 miles, in snow -trom six inches to four feet deep, to get to the Crazy Horse band. Many of the Cheyennes had relatives among the Sioux, and they expected to be received with open arms and that the Sioux would divide with them, They arrived from the march in an abso- Intely destitute condition, having endured great suf- terings from cold and hunger on the way. Old women and children. perished in the suow; babes were frozen at their mothers’ breasts. Crazy Hore tuceived them coldly on their arrival and demanded large prices for everything. in the spring the Chey- enves came to Red Cloud Agency (a few going to t month of the Tongue River). ‘Lieutenant Johnao: was then in charge at led Cloud, They expected here to receive only what the Sioux were willing to sliow them, which they had reason to expect would be very little. To their surprise they re- ceived the allowances to which they were evtitied separately, which to them seemed very large, being nearly toutaye enough for all. Their hearts warmed towurd the yovernment, A (ew weeks later they were told that the Sioux were oing to the Missouri River. They shared with the Sioux the prejudice agaiust that region, and when of- tered the ay in the Indian Territory decided to yo there by quite « majority. CORRESPONDENT—-Do_ you anticipate any trouble at Red Cloud or Spotted Tuil agencies? Generali Croos-—-I see no reason to fear any at sent. They are now quiet and contented, ond ave an honest and capable agent. The action of the stock men to siop the stealing of their ponics ases them and removes what was becoming & very ngeroux source of irritation to the Indians, When removed from the Missouri River they were in en excited condition, and if the removal had been wuch longer delayed would, 1 believe, ha Gpon the warpeth. That would lu a tide which the troubles with the Cneyennes would pale into inwguiticance. If the promises made to them are kept I see no with them. ‘They furnished a company of ides and seouts in the troubles at Camp obinson, and I know of nothing that creates a better feeling among them, when there is danger of thoir taking sides against us, than by asking their services against our foc, even though it be fragment of the sume tribe. Any apprebensions of trouble at Red Cloud or Spotted Tail —— under existing cit- cumstances, are groundless. Connesronpess—What are tho prospects of trouble with Sitting Bull? General Caoox—I cannot tell, there has been so much bosh in circulation about him, of whom 89 little is known. 1 have seen the statement in the papers that he haa crossed the border and 19 coming south, but dou’t know how much truth there is in it. [think all the indications in regard to the Ind- fans are more indioutive of peace than fot several years, provided, of course, that they are properly treated and that all promises are kept with them, MODERN PHASE OF THE INDIAN QUESTION. ConnesponDENT—Have the Sivnx the same brevery and stoicism as the Cheyennes, think you ? ‘General Crook—Under circumstances similar to those of the Cheyennes they would unquestionably have done the same, In their action at Camp Robin- son the Cheyennes displayed a trait of Indian char. acter, and not especially of Cheyeune. In any case of trouble with the government the Indians will pursne & very different couree now from what they would Dave taken ten years ago. The breech-loading gun is the chief cause, it has given the Indians great con- nee. were at the Council with Little Chiet’s “i ot Sidney, and saw the indians smile when force with them was mentioned, Unless managed with a strony hand we are just on amine all the tine which ia y mywent, The whole Indien | Is it necessary for our dignity as a nation tbat ’ NEW YORK HERALD, FRIDAY, JANUARY 31, 1879--TRIPLE SHEET. problem has chrnyed in the last five or six years, with the breech-loading gun, whieb has given the Indians such pertect confidence in themselves. ‘They will no longer submit to the outrages which have been sub- mitted to so long. They will force this nation of 49,000,000 of people to give them justice or they will die. Talk to them now about fear of soldiers or citizens and they will laugh at you. The indian sees there is no fu- ture for bim unless he is fairly dealt with, that he is being swept off the face of the earth. They understand the situation a great better than they get credit for. They do not act through ignorance. Their chiets have been to Wash- ington to Eastern .cities, and have some idea of the magnitude of the nation and the hopelessness of any contest against it on tl part, But they will not long submit, even then, to have their rights ta- ken from them. The Nez Percés and the Modocs are instances of the same feeling. The time when it could be truthfully stated that one soldier was equal to several Indians has gone by, The reverse is now more nearly the truth. They fight with the utmost desperation. Their bravery assumes @ different form from that of the whites. It is more of the defensive than the aggressive kind. They will not charge on a strong intrenchment with the confidence and cou! of the white soldier, but when an attympt is made to Grive them from a position which {hey have them- “ ‘es taken Zo body of men could make @ better de- fence, METR OUT JUSTICE. CoRRESPONDENT—You speak of the necessity of handling the Indians with astrong hand, You be- lieve in the law of force with them, then? General Cnoox—Only when we are right and they are wrong. It is a grave question in the management of barbarous tribes as to what degree of allowance should be made for their superstitions. These are sometimes very strong, and a tribe will give up their lives before they will surrender them. The Sepoy war was cansed because the Brit- ih used grease on their rahi pse. ‘The British government maintained its porn by ignoring this superstition, and by so dving in- augurated along und bloody war. ‘The question in my mind for the government to determine is this should rule the Indian entirely from our own stand- point, or shall we have consideration for his strange Bature and to some extent manage him as we would a child which has not learned to reason. ANOTHER REPORT FROM THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE TRANSFER OF THE INDIAN BUREAU— OPPOSITION TO THE CHANGE-—TEMPORABY MILITARY CONTROL OF WILD TRIBES RECOM- MENDED. Wasutxaton, Jan. 30, 1879. The report embodying the views of Senators Saun- ders and Oglesby and Representatives Stewart and ‘Van Vorhes-—four of the eight members of the joint committee on the Indian transfer question—has been completed, and will be presented to the Senate by Mr, Saunders to-morrow. After reciting the law un- der which the inquiry was ordered into “the expe- diency of transferring the Indian Bureau to the War Department,”’ and stating that the committee, to fully inform themselves, visited various sections of the country and heard voluminous testimony on both sides of the question, the report proceeds to review the history of the Indian service while it was under the control of the War Department, from the formation of our government up to 1849, It shows that various evils and abuses grew up under the ad- ministration of Indian affairs by military officers, and this branch of the report concludes as follows :— The Secretary of War (James Barbour), in his re- port of February 3, 1826, said that in the manage- ment of Indian ‘atfairs “the history of the past presents but little on which the recollection lingers with sstirfuction.” He said further:—‘Tho future is not more cheering, unless resort be speedily had to other counsels than those by which we have’ hereto- fore been governed.” The admonitions of the Sec- retary were unheeded and abuses grew from that time forward; and notwithstanding the reformatory legislation of March 3, 1847, they continued to grow up to the last hour in which the War Department had control of the Indian population, and wo little had been done toward Indian civilization under the War Department management that public opinion Ind acquiesced in the assumption that the Indians were not susceptible of civilization and progress, REVIEW OF THE QUFSTION.. The report continues : Since October 18, 1539, the day on which De Soto battled with the Indians at Marilia (now Mobile, Ala.), the Indian problem has been a vexed question. To review further the advancement of civilization on the American Csntinent, and the cofsequent decline of the savage, is not deemed within the province of your committee. To take the matter as it now pre- sents itself seems to be the more practicable way of be Ne J atasolution. We find a quarter of # million of al gines (Alaska Indians excepted) scattered over twelve States and nine Territories, and. by ‘far more than one-half of these are semi-civilized, while not more than 50,000 (scattered us they are) can be classed us the genuine savage; more prone to hostility than inclined to peaceful pursuits. It is estimated that if all the fighting Indians of the conn- try could be got together they would not muster more than 15,000, and the idea of their ever concentrating for warlike purposes is simply pro- posterous, because it is impossible. The Indian wars on a large scale are over, and we may reasonably hope that that portion of our national history is in the past, FEELING OF INDIANS AND OFFICERS. ‘Tho testimony taken by the committee in Wash- ington, St. Louis, Omaha, Salt Lake City and San Francisco, in the Indian Territory and at various Indian agencies in the Northwest is quoted exten- sively and described in general terms as follows :— Your committeo find that the general expressions of the Indiais and the civilians, with a few excep- tions of the latter, are in vpposition to the change of control, while the officers of the army give many rea- sons why the transfer should be made, yot invariably express @ personal disapproval of the transter be- cause, a8 they allege, it would devolve upon them onerous and thankless duties, Throughout the tes- timony given by the army offidera their disapproba- tion was stated. This leads the committes to ee- riously consider the question whether, if the transfer were inade, the army would not be ‘much injured thereby, and without any corresponding Zood result to the Indians, ‘The sentient of the Indians who were visited by the committee, as their testi- mony will show, was unanimously against the transfer, except in the case of Young Joseph, chief of the Nez Percés, who was found a prisoner in | the Indian Territory. He would make uo chuice, but ‘said: “1 think both of them could be set aside,” and that “we should have one law to govern us ail, and we shoutd all live together.” In reference to the sentiment of the Indians on the subject the Secretary of the Interior made to the committee a statement givin the views and votes of the various tribes, which gives an average vote of sixteen to one against the transfer, nearly all the — being unanimously opposed to the proposi- n. THE CHRISTIAN VIEW. The report next sets forth what it terms the Chris- tian view of the subject, and disonsses various other ies at some length, as follows ‘ The Christian world is watching with intense in- terest the results of the humane treatment of our Iudiane under the present peace policy, while ail the religions denominations in this country are abso- lutely opposed to the proposed change ‘of mauage- ment. Are we not to hope that these denominations comprise, at least, w large majority of the citizens of the United States? Their opinions and behets de- serve and should receive respectful consideration. ‘ are we going to do with the indian?” is tho everyday question. terminate him,” the thoughtless; “Civilize, Christianize and put him to work,” exclaim the larger number. In these last sentiments your committee heartily join, with the opinion, that tis the bounden duty of the gov- ernment to teach the Indian that labor, morality and honesty are the three chief tencts of civilization, and to show him that there is something better to live for than the war dance, the tawdry war paint and the murderous tomahawk. That the Indian haa re- eatedly advanced in civilization whenever he haa pad 8 fair chance is shown by actual facta and dgures, Out of the 252,000 we find that over 16,000 are attend- ing sehool. Say that there are 50,000 children, this shows that about one-third of them are now atreud- ing school: Should not the blanket, the sealpin; knite and the war whoop be as novel an repulsive to these children as to the children of the whites ? The force of edneational training promi to insure this result, When blanket Indians en the Indian Territory they soon learn to doff their ux rightly gear and don more civilizing habjliments, ‘To be sted or honored they munat do this, and the force of example is ayreat incentive to an Indian, If thie is the cave with the mem and the women it will prevail with the children @t sehool. We may reasonably hope that, with the example now before them, we may soon leorn of a much larger percent agein attendance than that which is now reported. ANOLO-BAXONIZED. — * ‘That the Indian can be Anglo-Saxonized is ‘proven beyond all cavil in the case of the Winnebagoes and Omahas who [reside on reservations in the State of Nebraska. They live in comfortable houses, vave good berns, cultivate their lands and raise as good wheat, corn and potatoes as are produced through the labor of the white man, ‘They have churches aud schools, and no more orderly community can be found than on these two reservations. They are pe- titioning to become citizens, s question of such vital importance in their case that it must soon be solved. Is it to place these people under military management? Woe think not. ‘The Kev. James H. Wilbur gave the committees an exhaustive and interesting review of the advance- ment of the Yakinas toward civilization. There are teu tribes composing this agency, They rexide in Washington Territory. They wore wild and savage in 1466, In thirteen years tiey have become, to # considerable extent, civilized and Christianized. ‘They number about five thousand. They have houses, farms, workshops and schools, They are indus: trious, self-supporting and law-abiding. Although Joseph, with his Nez Percés, was at war with our just across the Columbia River, yet he re- ceived no aid or aggistance irom these Yakinas. It would be very miliating to these people to be placed under military ruleyfor such they would regard it if the managemefit of their affairs were transferred to the army, and #0 we might say of many other tribes who have become partially or whoily civilized under the more humane trestinent received in the past few years, If the tribal relations had not alway observed, and if the aborigines +3 had not been treated as foreigners instead of men “to the manor hors. Bone & ve eng better, Ro facts above allu 10 w Ww “might heve been.” Instead of thousands needlessly slain there would be with us to-day a race of men and women in mind and physique equalled by few, if any, of the races of people who have come to our shores “as to a place of refuge.” The proposition that 250,000 men, women and children out of @ possible 50,000,000 must be gov- erned and controlled by the military arm of this great nation seems absurd, aud to the European savant isasource of much comment and ridicule whenever he alludes to our institutions. A TEMPORARY CONTROL. That we have among these ,250,000 Indians some unruly tribes is a lamentable fact, and to this your committee would respectfully call the attention of Congress. We are of the opinion that in such special cases the military should have temporary control, and that the Presi- dent have power .to place such warlike or unruly.tribes under military discipline, the same as he would a city or State, terrorized by mob lew or revolution, If the officers and soldiers of our gal- lant army bring order out of chaos, and redeem the Bal and make a peaceful and industrious citizen of him, their praises will doubtless be sung by every lover of peace and justice.s It is Penge by your committee to submit a iif’ embouying these views, and it is to be hoy that Congress will take early action in relation thereto, whether the management of the Indians remains where it ia or is relegated to the War Department. The general system of reform and improvement should continue, and among the most important sbings commanding immediate at- tention is to provide that the civil law of the United States be extended over all Indians who will agree thereto, with a code of laws applicable to them, de- fining crime and providing a judiciary, especially in what is known ae the Indian Territory. In the opin- fon of the committee such legislation is imperatively needed, and no.time ought to be lost in making the necessary provisions therefor. THE INDIAN AGENT. > ‘The Indian agent seeps to be the objective point to ; which all those opposed to the present policy of the government point in scorn and derision, ‘They as- sert that ‘Indian agent” synonymous with “fraud and corruption.” The committee made diligent in- quiry into the present system of conducting the agencies, and are of the opinion that, as a general tule, the agent is more sinned against than sinning. ‘There are now seventy-four agents employed, and at every opportunity, as we learn, the de- tment propose to reduce this number y consolidation of — agencies and lessen- ing of reservations, where it can be done with justice to the tribes. The work of reform in this branch of the service should continue in good earnest, and the services of the very best men as nts be procured, aud a fair and living compensa- tion be allowed, so that the agent may be placed above want and temptation, as well as to compensute them for their caiggerari from more congenial walks of life, The sal of Indian ageuts should be more liberal than now. Few men who are both competeut and honest can afford to travel thousands of miles to an Indian agency and then serve the government honestly for the pittance of $1,500 per annum. Men of integrity who are competent to administer the affairs of the Indian agency successfully can, in most cases, earn er salaries at less ‘sacrifice. nearer their homes. ‘The salury should be large enough to employ honorable menu of decided executive ability and to enable them to tuke their families with them to their agencies and to support them there. The pay ought to be more liberal and the tenure of their oflice should be secure for u term of years, provided the agent should prove worthy. The laws providing for the punishment of wrongdoers in this branch of the service ought to be exceedingly severe. ‘The guilty should be punished with an unmistakable carnest- ness that will convince all others of the firm purpose of the government. We are eesured that this policy has been inaugurated, and that already the good ré- sults are felt, as the Commissioner of fndian Affairs testifies there has not been a single defalcation under the present adininistration. THE QUESTION OF COST, The question of economy is next considered. The signers of the report, after expressing their opinion that it should by no means supersede the considera- tion of questions of humanity and the progressive civilization of the Indians, say they cannot find any good ground for the common statement that the War Department is any more economical and efficient than the Interior Department in the purchase of supplies and their transportation, It is found that both departments have excellent systems, and that both have made great improvenients of late years. ‘The improvement in the management of the Indian | Burean is said to be expecially marked. The present system of business is pronounced very effective and the organization of the office is considered complete enough to be a bar to all outside irregularities, The remainder of the report (omitting a long extract from the utterance of the Peace Commission of 1868) is as follow: THE RESERVATIONS. There are at prosent 148 reservations, comprising 150,326,715 acres of led. Your committee are of opinion that there afé‘too meny reservations and that the number should be rapidly lessened. The sinaller bands of Indigns who decline to take land in severalty and also refuse to become citizens, should be moved on the large reservations, In this ‘connection your committee would anggest that the present large reservations in the northern part of Dakota bordering on the Cauada line ought to be set apart by the govern- Ment as a permanent reservation for all those Northern: tribes whose sinaller reservations'will be abolished un- der this system of consolidation. The Northern tribes should not be moved South, nor those of the South- ern portion of ourcountry to the Northern reserva- tions, Humanity dictates this course, for it appears that attempts at ucclimating those fro: the North in the Southern reservations have proved a failure. These 143 reservations are scattered over twelve | ‘States and nine Territories. A number of them are in the midst of civilization, and the iands therein should be taken by the tribes ocenpyin them in severalty. The Indian should have this lau allotted and the permaneut title thereto given with the precaution provided that he is not despoiled of his rights, and in addition to this a law should be enacted which will igengs ea er the Indians from selling or disposing of their lauds and houses to sharp and designing persons for not less than twenty- five years. A SEPARATE DEPARTMENT. It has been frequently urged by meny of those who have given tht Tudian problem much attention and long study that the entire governinent of the Indians ought to be placed under @ separate and distinct de- partment, the chief of which should bea member of the Cabinet. Your committee coingide with such views, and deem that this branch of our government is of such importance that its chie? oflicer ought to bein @ position to have direct communication with the President. If he be a member of the Cabinet he can at all times gain access to the President, ‘and advise and counsel with our Chief Magistrate as to the wel- fare of the Indians, In times of peace neither the War nor Navy Department haveso much complicated business as comes under the Indian Bureau. Your conunittee, however, do not nrze immediate legisla tion on this subject, but do wish to cali the attention ‘of Congress to its importance, with the hope that i the near future some change may be made thut wil give the prominence to this great and grave national question that its importance domands, We think it is aleading prominent feature in the great interest and weliare of the country, and that it should be given a rank in the executivo branch that is commen- surate with its importance, ‘This is due alike to the Indian and the white m OONCLUDING Bi . Is Your committee have ¢ aly considered all thee dats, testimony and arguments submitted to ghem ahd have made much personal ingu 1 ound warm advocates on both sides of the ‘question, to all of whom a patient hearing wae’ given. Your ecom- mittee think that the President shouid be exspowered in the case of actual or threatened hostilities to place she tribe or tribes that may be hostile or unmanage- able under the control of the military, to remain so until permanent is assured. We think that the Sioux might placed under such control at once and thus avoid war, which is being con- tinuelly threatened by these Indians, Your commit- tee ere of the opinion that the reservatio should be decreased, and that as rapidly possible the stall tribes or parts of tribes be laced on the lat reservations, uniess they take jand in severalty, do away with their tribal relations end prepare for civiljzation. We are of opinion that the Indian Bureau ebould be a distinct department, with the chief » member of the President's Cabinet. This will aid much in the solution of future complications in Indian affai ‘The Indian should be protected in his rights to h land, aud safeguards ought to be thrown around him 80 as to provent designing persons from filching his homertead or inducing him to sell it for a trifling compensation. He should not uve the right to sel his land without consevt of ihe department under twenty-one years. Your committe can discover no one good reason why the proj change should be madé, They be- lieve that rin rather than good to the red men would result from the change, and that no ‘ible advantage could result to the government from it. Your committee ate therefore of the opinion (pursu- ant to the extended reasons given above on all the ints involved) that it is not expedient to transfer be Indian Bureau to the War Department. Respectfully submitted, ALVIN SAUNDERS, RICHARD J. OGLESBY, of the Senate, NN. H. VAN VORHES, On the part of the House, ACCOMPANYING BLL.t. The report is accompanied by « bill authorizing the President to “transfer the custody, control and management of any of the Indian tribes from tht In- terior to the War Department temporarily whenever, in hia jadgment, he shall deom it advisuble to do 80, either on account of actual or apprehended hostilities on the part of the Indians against the United States, or in case of difficulties between such Indians and settlers.” Tho bill farther proposes to authorize the President to detail any officers of the army to act aa Indian agents or inspectors or in any other capacity in the Indian service, and exercising the sume powers and enbject to the same riies aud regulations as the civil ofieers, and an appropriation of $15,000 is fecommended to pay the travelling expenses of officers thus detailed during the next fiscal yoar, THE STATE CAPITAL, Senators and Assemblymen Calling Alond for Retrenchment. LEGAL INTEREST. Shall It Be Reduced to Six Per Cent?’ 3 INST HUNTING Proposition to Facilitate the River Improve- ments at Spuyten Duyvil. Atpany, Jan. 30, 1879. ‘The utter emptiness of the clamor about retrench- ment with which Senators have been for several weeks assailing the ears of their constituents was strikingly illustrated this afternoon. Senator Tur- ner offered a resolution appointing E. A. Carter to the position of clerk to the Committee on Privileges and Elections There is not a single seat in contest, nor is th so far as human foresight cen ‘tell, tho slightest shadow of a chance of there being any- thing whatever for that committee to do. Prob- ably it will not meet at all. Yet in the face of these. facts only five Senators voted in opposition to the appointment, and it was made. Senator Ecclesine tersely stated the situation and voted “No.” His example was followed by Messrs. Hogan, Payne and 8t. John; ail the others voting “Yes.” Consequently the people of the State will have the pleasure of paying about $6.8 day from now until*the close of the session tos gentleman who need not make his appearance here except to draw his pay. Only afew minutes before this .prac- tical, dircet and present test of the sentimonts of the honorable gentlemen in the matter of public economy was made there was still auother opportunity afforded them to show how anxious they wore to reduce expenses sometime in the ‘sweet by and by’’—on paper. They ull voted for that at once. It was aresolution, offered by Senator Murphy, calling for a joint committee of three Senators and five Representatives, to investi- gate the entire government of the city of New York, including thg legislative, financial, judicial and law departments. The committee, it is proposed, shall have the powor to administer the oath to witnesses and to compel the production of books and papers, It is provided that it shall report to: the present session of thé Legislature what departments of the city government may be abolished or consolidated with advantage; what salaries may be reduced, what officials dispensed with avd generally what measures be taken to lighten the burdens of the oppressed taxpayers, ‘This was adopted without a dissenting voice. To paraphrase Pope’s line it would seem that public ex- Ppenses never “are,” but always ‘to be’ juced. ¥IVE POINTS HOUSE OF INDUSTRY. ‘The trustees of the Five Points House of Industry, through Judge Robertson, of Westchester, ask for some increased powers. They waut authority to adopt into families any whole or half orphans or destitute children that may have been in their charge for one year unprovided for. ‘That applies to little ones under ten veers. When children aré over ten they ask authority to adopt them out/after they have had the care of them six months. A secoud section ot the bill directs the Board of Estimate and Apportionment to hereafter inciude in the tax levy a sum sufficient to enable the county treasury to Pe to the House of Induatty $9 per week for ovary ena supported by it. The measure is in the hands of the Committee on Finance. LEGAL INTEREST SIX PRR CENT. The debate of the day occurred on the bill of Sena- tor Edick, which was favorably reported by the Committee on Judiciary. This bill, it will be re- membered, fixes the legal rate of interest at six per cent, and makes another amendment to the laws ro- lating to “Interest of money.” ‘This amendment is yery important, «8 it affects every person in the State that hag # dollar to lend or that has oceasion—and the credit—to borrow # dol- lar. Senator dick intended by the chango to prevent middle men from getting usurious entages out ot borrowers. So amended the uct would not permit any person, corporation, nt or trustee, Or any person acting on behalt of the borrower or lender to directly or indirectly re- ceive any recompensé beyond the rate of interest mentioned, and the acts of any agent acting on be- | half ot borrower or lender shall be deemed the acts | of the principal. Nothing ia the act, however, shall be construed to prohibit the bund side agent or attor- ney of either borrower or lender fromm being paid for his services in getting a@loan, Senator Edick made a clear and eloquent little address in support of the amendments proposed. Senator McCarthy took a posi- tion adverse to them. It appeared to him that the wor.ls interpolated into the act could not properly be passed as an amendment, because, in his.judgment, they changed the whole statute. As for the first section, changing the rate of interest, thut was well evough. Any amount could now be borrowed at six per cent nds and mortgages. The proposition to save the borrower all expense, however, would not, he thought, work well. Onder the laws incorporating #avings banks borrowers were expected to pay all expenses incidental to loans. The trustees of sevings banks were, after ali, only acting us ts for the poor depositors, and it te banks were compeiled to pay for the searching of titles to property on which loans were asked, it would | be @ severe tax upon the aforesaid poor depositors and would in many instances prevent the.loan bein; made. In this way the proposed smendment woul: lead to great suifering smong farmers and others whose very life depended at times upon their getting loans. ‘This class did not object to paying pretty well for money at such times. * 16 THE CUANGR NECESSANY ? Senator Loomis thougat that Mr. Edick was in error in saying that poor men and farmers were the borrowers and appitalists the ienders. He was of opinion that farmers were very largely lend be- cause their deposits supported most of the ings banks of the State. Senator Raines was not aware of the slightest necessity existing for any change in the rate ot interest as fixed by law. He was not in favor of increasing it, and until tie business interests of the country demanded @ reduction he should not feel cuiled upon to sustain auy measure having that object in view. He criticived as inconsistent tue position assumed by Senator } hy in declaring in favor of w lower rate 01 intercet and theo cacepting te the second sec. tion regarding middle men and incidental charges. The debate was listened to with interest by the Benace, and everybody seemed fully alive to the im- portance of the proposed awendments. Permiasion to sit again on the bill was accorded the Judiciary Committee and further discussion was deferred, ASHEMBLY RCONOMY, Anothef lengthy debate was indulged in in the Assembly over the question of reform in legisla tive expenditures, The matter came up on » mo- tion ot Mr. Hepburn to immediately appoint « clerk to the Special Committee on Apportionment. Mr. Brooks took occasion in discyssing this proposition to repthe republicau reformers over the Knuckles for their action in sppointing a host of po ' committee cierks and messengers wh. were pai high salaries tor doing nothing. Mr. er ofiered a substitute which called upon the Bpeaker to designate the messengers al- ready appointed who would discharge the necessary dutics incumbent upon a clerk to the Ap- wrtionnient Committee. Mr. Brooks applied tno lash vigorously, aud bo was supperted in his position by Mr. Skinner, a republican n.ember irom Jederson county, The latter called atteation to the tact that $4,000 had been expended for messengers and clerk of the same committee last year for work for which an ordinary accountant wouid be glad to receive $25 ae compousation. The usual bancombe was indulged in by several nembers who wished to “place thuim- selves on record” in this retrenchment business, ‘Mr. Skinner’s amendment was declared by the Speaker to be inoperative on legal grounds if passed, Mr. Hepburn’s resolution providing for the appoint- ment ot a clerk was finally adopted. REDUCING THE ALUERMEN. Mr. Dean's bill proposes that the Aldermen shall be elected for two years instead of one, and their salaries made $2,000 instead of $4,000 per annum; the President of the board to have $4,000, THE INSUBANCR FIGHT CONTINUED, levelled upon Mr. Smyth to the y itany, who have any claims ot the presen’ for exuminers or sppreisers, &c., in insurance matters. TOTAL ABSTALNEIS, Petitions continue to coime in trom different parts of the State asking for the passage of @ prohibitory liquor law. WEFORM IN BROOKLYN. Mr. Stevenson aims to cut down the salaries of officials in Brooklyn ten per cent after the Ist of January next, This bill gives the Board of Super- visors authority to make this change after that date. Another proposition from the same gentleman sug- ests the abolition of the offices of Supervisor-at- and County Auditor, sud eer eit duties with those of the President of the nl of Buper- visors. PROULIAR CREMATORY PETITION. The House laughed to-day over a peculiar petition from “citizens ot the town of Allegany, Uattarangus county, and surrounding towns,” asking for the pas- sage Of & law “that will permit said petitioners to crect = | inspectors euy by j ti the ® building for of human bodies ioe ashes on the followin, mut “Firs!—Of fear to get buried alive, which is proved that was done a many time. “Second—'To stop the most horribbile criminal act of rob dead bodies out of their vaults and graves, where they are buried, which is at the present time practised into a great extent. “Lhird—In reterence to the universal resurrection on She Gad ot judgment, the ashes of decayed, cre- mated, accidentally or sucididly by burning, pro- duced into the same, or preserved or changed in to stone by nature, will, after our own opinion, not being difficult to an Almighty Creator to bring | the same to life again, which we believe is a mys- tery only known ‘to the great Creator where the power is in the Holy Scripture by the writer of tho’ game.” The foregoing is a perfect extract from the petition itself, with the exception that the spelling ‘Was not closely followed, Speaker Alvord reterred the petition to the Com- mittee on Public Health, amid much merriment, IMPORTANT TO NEW YORK OFFICE-HOLDEMS, The following is the text of Assemblyman Mc- Dospuah's bill rolative to office-holders who may re- End os of New York before or after their appoint- ut :— No person who is not @ citizen of the State and an actual resident for one year ot the city of New York sball be gible for appointment to any office or position in any o: her of the dey ents of the city of New York, either a Adeus or commissioner, chief of bureau, clork, reof, ur employe therein, whother legislative, or judi nor shall any porson not an actual of the city few York who inay be so on:ployed - pointed bave any valid cluim against the Mayor, Aldermen: and Commonalty of the city of Now York for avy salury, wuges or com: Mew in either of r 8 wation, or by virtue of b departments or branehe: t, unless within thirty days of his appuint- wut he shall have bacouie an uctual rosi- not aad city. Any person holding .an: intment or office, or om- ployed in nuy of such dopartments. we branchos ofthe city, appointipent ory from within the 0, have resigned ab pucd such employment; and it shall be the duty of the head of every department or other person authorized to make appoin oF give employment to appoint o euploy aueiher to the office made vacant or employment go surren- ered or abandoned’by auid removal from said city. MISCELLANEOUS MEASURES, Mr. Husted’s bill relative to the Harlem River and Spuyten Dunyvil Creek provides for giving consent of the State to the improvement by the United States overnment of this river and creek from the North iver to the East River throughsthe Harlem Kills, and that the United States may take and hold the lands necessury tor the improvement, The State of New York to pay for the same out of its treasury from moneys unappropriated. Mr. Duguid introduced a bill providing that after ® medical school or college hak been turnished a human body or remains for study it shall inter the same in some pabiip cemetery, under a penalty of from $25 to $50 for every violation of the act. Mr. Young's bill relative to wharfage provides that any person charging wharfage in excoss of the amount allowed by day shall be adjudged guilty of a usisdemeanor, Mr. Hughes’ bill provides that the validity of any ac- tual devise or will of reai estate may be determined by the Supreme Court in a proper action for that purpose, in which all persons interested or claiming * to be interested inay be made parties. Mr. Simonson’s bill relative to contractors’ liens: provides that such liens in behalf of labor and ma- terials shall have preference, unless the contractor is informed of a prior lien. Mr. ‘Trowbridge introduced a bill to amend the act to facilitate the trial of certain actions and to provide for counting the ballots in any ballot box or xes deposited in the Department of Police in the city of Brooklyn, and to authorize evidence in rela- tion thereto, It provides that the Attorney General shall notify the wuthorities of tine Roney. of an action and that he requires the lots to be re- counted. Then, ins of the long and_ tédious course at present pursued, it provides that the Po- lice Commissioners do the dounting. The bill isa general one, applying to the whole State. + “INSURANCE CASES IN THE COURTS. In the matter of the people, by the Attorney Gene- ral, ys. the Continental Lite Insurauce Company, an order was to-day issued to pay moneys and to fix the hearing before the reteree. The matter of the appli- cation of the Attorney General. respondent, vs. the Guardian Mutual Life Insurance Company came up in the “General Term to-day for argument. The ac- | tion ia an appeal from an order grauted by Judge Westbrook at Kingston, October 19, 1878, perpetual staying the proceedings of the. plaintiff, William 8. Carlisle and wife, in an action in the Court of Com- mon Pleas, in New York, making Henry R. Pierson the receiver, a party to the action, MERCHANTS AND MECHANICS’ BANK OF TROY. In the matter of the petition ior instructions by Charles £, Patterson, receiver of the Merchants and Mechanics’ Bank of Troy, Judgé Osborn has ap- pointed Charlies O. Parnielce, of Lapeingburg, referee, to take such proofs as imay be offe as to or affecting the question of priority and preference; also to report and return such proofs to the Court, that the latter may further provect. thereon, This order is granted on account of the receiver applying for advice as to whether the Troy Savings Bank has rence and is entitled to priority of ment over the i depositors and creditors of the de- funct bank. THE CARMAN-DURYEA CONTEST—A DISGRACEFUL CAMPAIGN—-HOW DUBYEA IS ALLEGED TO HAVE COUNTED HIMSELF INTO THE ASSEMBLY, ; ALnAxy, Jan. 90, 1879, ‘The following document was presented to the As- | sembly to-day by Mr. Baker, of Monroe:— To THe AgseMBLY-— ‘The undersigned, a majority of your Committeo ov Privi- loges and Elections, to whom was: referred the petition of George F. Ca pf the county of Sudolk, contesting and ciniming the seat of Charles T. Durvea, ber of Ax sembly from said county, respecttully report that the have been attended b; expective partios und their counsel, and have heard the allegations aud proofs of the parties. Annexed hereto aud herewith returned are the petition of the claimant so referred to your committeo with (ho formal statement of the eluints o claimant, with the grounds thereo! and the written anawer made and tiled by the sitting member, Having ered the allegations nnd proofs of the rospectivo parties, your committee have found and do hereby respectfully report thelr conel of fact and law as follows :— acta. Thero were three candidates amely, George ¥. 0 , Duryea, the prosemt sittin . Tn the tabular statement of the aggregate v published, it appears, und the Crovassers ate, that Carman and Duryea each re votes and Smith received 203. In the result on Assembly afterward mad he vote aw follows :—For Caruy —Upon thi Inspectors of the Second Election district Babylon there appears a bullo: headed “Assembly,” with th aries T. Duryea” printed thereon. The was erased therefrom by moans of « the town of word “Dury: pencil and the word “Carman” written with pen: cil of the face of the buliot and following the word “Duryea,” This ballot the inspectors hind returned as rman, 1." The Board of Can- sent back the return to the Inspec. tho Kupervisor who was entrusted back to the Board that the Inspec- tors concluded to leave the return aa it was, Thorenpon Board of Cunvasners, by a vote 5 to 4 (Mr. Duryen's the casting vote), devided go allow this bailot aa one peing member, which hud ‘fs ballot was east and inspectors on the faco rs, For Member of As: ow plainly apy ‘Un the back ‘of tl he whereot had been sembly, Charies T. i iu thetr stead was writ “George F.C thee word “Assem LA r It was not allowed nso aliowed by thod fn In favor of Me. € the roomie would L572 votes tor Ge man. Ti thy ballot thoutioned and referrod Second 4i ‘of Babylon, had not been counted in H to Me. Datyea, his vote would have stou; —thus giving Mr. Carmin a majority of 1. beurt tise gacwilom tn to tho right of tho purtiow a8 ering Wy as to the rights of ¢! ous prevented by the facu of the returna. ern CONCLUSIONS. It{s pinin upon principle and too well settled by prece- dent to reguire the citation of authorities, that the duty of & Board of Count; rink, Beis their province to ascertain the result of 1 tion by the ex- presned preference of tho olectors as shown by thelr ballots ‘As to the builot from the Second district of Babylon, it hut the Bowed of Canvassere did wrome in allow ing the nme to Mr. Duryea that ballot did not Plainly expressed “Carman. allot -—" Assembly—Geo ‘Assembiyman to be elected in th is wan on w tcl atch a form we to leave no dombt a4 to the intention of thy v it can moan nothing else bate vote for George F. Carman for tho t the reguinting the forms of bal- love are directory, and that if the voter has exp! Wy wiil 90 that it can be nod he is not to be disfran- chised because be has not observed ail the forma. Your evmmittee have not recoived any testimony of any facta, except such ae show on the fee of the reinrns be- vt it he shall bo wy advised, it t twarded to itn while he. shall tf to coutes the right to the neat by evidence thet does not appear on the face of the ing manifest that upon the face of the returns George ¥. Carman wae duly elected and should have b awarded tho certificate thereot, your committee recomen the adoption of the following resolution :— aigttas eee Renner tare he es of Assombly for the coun’ Sesoly, di that hele entitled to the coat now bald oy ol ‘Ait which ie Peopecttuity submitted, er DAUD W. teat . WILL AM gk OURS, Janvany 29, 1879, Site Oia, MR. CONKLING’S THANKS. HIS LETTER TO THR REV, HENRY 8, GARNET EXPRESSIVE OF HIS GRATITUDE TO THE COIr ORED PLOPLE. is Starrs SENATE ad ASHINGTON, . My Dran 8ra—1 have buen deeply moved by the Action of the colored citizens and soldiers in New York, signiticant of their approval of my re-election to the Senate, Pye and undeserved Ay Mao pended once © republicans of our Stat ve genero' stowed on me, the action referred % stands out am the most eying of all the proofs of regard. The ‘confidence in me which you have often expressed, and which I rejoice to know is shared by many colored men, rests, in part at least, in the belief that I am not forgetful of either the services of the colored race or of the sad injustice which it has suffered and still suffers under a flag which should perpetually protect every man of every Tace in all his rights before the law. This belief is not mistaken, and I long for the day hasten the day when in America skin will no longer measure his right to a fair ‘wages for # fair day's work, or his right to any other privileges which three wars have been tought to establish and which the constitution of the United States now ordains. T venture to ask you, one of the wisely chosen leaders of your people, to make known to the colored men of New York how highjy I esteem their good Will, and with what pleasure the compliment of, the salute they fired the other day was received. Your friend, ROSCOE QONKLING. To Rev. Hzrxy HIGHLAND Ganyet. THE RENO INQUIRY. SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE INVESTIGATION—WIT- NESSES GENERALLY FAVORABLE TO THE AC- * CUBED. [BY TELEGRAPH TO THE HERALD.) Z Cxicaao, IU., Jan. 30, 1879, The sixteenth day of the Reno trial opened with a supplemental examination of Lieutenaut DeRudio, who testified that about five or ten minutes befora Reno’s command left the timber, he (the witness) saw General Custer wave his hat from the highest point on the other side of the river; Custer could see both Reno’s command and the Indian village from that point; very soon after the firing began down the river; the witness thought that Custer was looking for a fording place, and, think. ing that Reno could hold the position in the timber, was going down the stream to tackle the Indian village; the witness thought Reno could have’ held his position in the timber as long as his ammu- tion lasted, and the ammunition he had, if ju- diciously expended, would have held out three or four hours; he could not estimate what might have been the result if Reno bad not retreated, for he did not feel that he could calculate results, not knowing thedisposition of the Indian forces with regard to the relative numbers confronting Reno and Custer, ‘ 48 CLEAR AS MUD. On cross-examination tho witness testified that he did not know where Reno was at the time Custer ap- peared on the bluff across the river; he (witness) did not tell Major Reno that General Custer had been seen as described; Custer was about one thousand yards away; he was accompanied by Lieutenant Cook and another person, possibly an ofiicer or an orderly; the witness recognized them from their ares; though they were so far away that if he had known of. their presence in that vicinity he could not have recognized them; it would be difficult for a commanding officer to regulate the expendi- ture of ammunition under the circumstances ot Reno’s commend in the timber; it was the dnty of the officer to try and prevent waste of ammunition. Being asked how it that he came to leave the line without the command of his superior officer the witness ina very spiritel manner said, id not leave the line, sir; the com- mand left me; I was the last man there, and then I went back atter the standard of the regiment.” On the redirect examination De Rudio testified that on a subseqteminy, when ho stood on the point whers he haa neral Custer, he had a view of the en- tire timber where Reno was and purt of the Indian village, SERGEANT DAVERN’S STORY. Sergeant Davern was recalled and testified that, on the retreat toward the river, his horse fell; there were some Indians between him and the command; he went over his horse's head when it fell: when he got on his fect again he saw the Indians were up with some of Company G's men; he saw the bodies of two soldiers there afterward; he got on to his horse again, and reaching the river found it all jammed up with’ men and horses; they seemed to be trying to get out as fast as possible, but their conduct was as well regulated ag could be expected under the circumstance: when ho eget to the top of the hill he saw Major Reno, who dsked him it be had any water; he said he had not, and Major Keno gave hiin some; he sub- sequently heard the firing down the bottom and ro marked to Captain Weir, “‘That must be Custer fight- ing down the bottom;” Weir said he thought it must be; he thought Colonel Benteen’s command must all have got on to the hill when he remarked the firin, to Captain Weir; it wes over an hour after he hear: the distant firing that Captain Weir's company moyed down the stream; it was noarly two hours after the witness got on to the hill, and atter the pack train came up. The witness testified, in conclusion, in answer to Mr. Gilbert, that he saw nothing like cowardice in Major Reno's conduct at any time, ‘TESTIMONY OF ¥. A. CULBERTSON F. A. Culbertson, Company I, Fitth cavalry, was the next witness sworn. He was attached to Major Reno's column on the 25th of June, 1876; he de- scribed, atter the prescribed formulas, the march to the timber; there were about two hundred and fitty Indians in tront of the command; they were circn- ing in frout and around to the lett of the line; most of the men in his company were new men, an: fired very fast; when the command mounted up he, being separated: from his own company, went over and joined Lieutenant Wallace; witness saw Major Reno only once after the skirmish line was formed; eno was riding toward the woods. JUDGE BLODGETT'S CASE. A. C, HESING TELLS THE COMMITTEE HOW THB UNITED STATES COURT FIXED A BUSINESS MATTER FOR HIM. Crr04c0, Iil., Jan, 30, 1879. In the Blodgett investigation this morning Mr. A, ©. Hesing, prosident of the Llinois Staats Zeitung Company, testified that he had been an intimate friend of Judge Blodgett for over twenty years; wit- ness was one of the founders of the Germania Insure ance Company, and after the fire he owed the com- pany $15.000, secured by 170 shares of Staats Zeitung stock; he went to Judye Blodgett in person to secure the appointment of Mr. Vocke as assignee of the company. Ho appealed to Judge Blodgett, as a friend, to assist him out Of great Business dificnl- ties and to help him dispose of the note without pub- licly advertising it. Judge Blodgett promised to do what was possible, and advised witness to tell Mr. Vocke Vs meantime, had been appointed assignea) to ‘solicit offers from baukers aud brokers and submit them to the Court, and he (Bi tty would confirm the sale the highest bid- ders. bag Blodgett had been fully informed by him that the stock was very valuabie, having aecrued dividends on it, and that Blodge:t might help the witness to get it back; witness suid that, thongh it might not look honorable in him to say these things, yet, as “squealing” had become popular in the United States courts, he would in- Sulge in it himself; wituess had written the bid of Rehm for the stock, aud had dictated the bids of sev- eral of the bankers; three of the hedviest creditors of the Germania Inéurance Company had objected to this arrangement with Blodgett at @ moesting of the creditors, and witness had to give them $2,500 to keep quiet about it. it A HARD ‘KENTENCE. On crose-examination the wituess stated that Judge B it had sentenced him to two years’ imprisonu~ ment in connection with the whiskey frauds; that he considered that sentence infamous, and that President Grant had equalized it to three months, He manifested considerable feelii on this poin' but said he had never told anybody that he woul be revenged on Jndge Blodgett. He had, however, said that when an opgortont occurred he would tell what he knew about Judge Blodgett. WHY Hi PLEADED GUILTY. On being asked why he pleaded guiity of the whise key frands witness said that when the cases of Rush and Pohiman were in the hands of the jury Judge Blodgett calted four jurors into his room and told them he wanted a verdict of guilty, and thet such a verdict was brow in, rest of the whiskey men then conch to plead guilty. Mr, Winstoa told the witness that Judge Blodgett waited the wit- neas to plead guilty and “lay down”’ on District At torney Ward. Witness Winston $2,500 to use his influence with BI ed Ciodgett @ behal 1 ware : ‘tm poe musi by ae hin sobeest Winstown ined witness to eny joy Mr. Genel aa evenoet ae “he had the car of Jur Blodgett.” Horman Rurter, of the Staats Zeitung, testified that he considered the stock of the paper in 1874 worth 150 per share; = of it nad sold for ninoty- ve conta on the dollar. AEKING GOT THE SECURITIES. Henry Greenebaum testified that at the instance of ‘he had offered $5,000 tor the notes and stock to the Germania, but had subsequently do- fivered them back to Hesing for the same amount, 000; witness considered the stock valuable, and ia oie had told friends that the dividends were twenty cent. Petition Hen: Smith, General Agent of the Wert. Press frauchi snernily fined ise was genorall 6 papers at $60,000. It was dintodit to state value, Asociated Chicago ite oxuct ‘The committee here adjourned to moet at the house of Mr, Vocke, assignee of the Germania Insure ance Company, he being confined to his room. PROBABLE HOMICIDE, The Blisaville section of Long Island City woe startled yesterday by the result of a &ght between four young men of the vicinity which is likely to result fatally to one of thom. The parties to the affray were Lowis Stevenson and John Hameyer on one side and Geo: Fantry and Andrew Hagyerty on the other side. During the fight Hameyer was strack on the crown of tho head and dangerousiy i Sstond rantr; »' A eT, EL ert ot bea tm

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