The New York Herald Newspaper, April 8, 1875, Page 4

4 “THE MODERN. MUDDLE —— ee Sixty-fourth Day of the Brooklyn Scandal Suit. BEECHER STILL DENYING His Evidence Important and Decided in Tone. “THE LION AND THE TIGER.” Interesting Dissertation in Modern Nat- ural History. “WHO IS THE LAMB?” The “Ragged Edge” Letter Con- sidered and Explained. “WELL, TO GOD | COMMIT IT.” Mr. Beecher appeared again as a witness yester- @ay morning. He came on the scene with a brisk and cheer/ul demeanor and went at the work of testifying in a style that showed his heart was in the business, To Beecher, Innocent or qullty, the trial must be momentous to the last degree. That he knows it is 1s evident in his every look and ex- pression. The general impression is that he has 60 far told a fair story, travelling close to the eage of improbability, but yet suficiently within the lim- its to make tt look truthful and reasonable. The world would have it that the “ragged edge’ letter was incapable of explanation except in the sense thut the author was crazy, but Mr. Beecher in his evidence yesterday showed how poasible it may be for a man to meditate these singular thoughts, use this singular language, and yet nold in his heart a meaning utterly different from that attributed to them by the worid. Mr. Beecher was less impressive yesterday than onany previous day, This man has wona great friendship. country. Few mer in their years have thrown Out and fastened such tentacies. ‘The cross-examination of Mr. Beecher, which is expected to begin next week, wili determine the status pf the Plymouth pastor for good and forever. PERSONNEL OF THE WITNESS, Looking over at Mr. Beecher from our seat in the Court his profile stands out in the light from the southern window of the room with singuiar distinctness, There tsa splendid bead, The tore- bead slopes up at a very gentle backward incline. The head is crowaed with a light covering of pepper-colored hair parted at the side, thrown over the ears and brushed entirely away from the face. ity. The lips come easily together. Tney tremble when their possessor comes to tell anytning pathetic—when he tells, for instance, the motive of the “ragged edge’ letter. The word “leomine’ would describe the profile of face. There is strength and nobility init, The hatr falls down upon the coat collar and gives ar- tistic Mish to the whole, The voice comes to us ip different moods—sow clear, strong and decti- sive, now faltering and weak, and weak enough He ts rapid, confident and cheerful one Moment, and slew, cautious and desponding the next. A whirlwtad of emotion overcomes him, and this great, strong locking face is in 4 second | as a child's, The mutations are romarkabie. Campbell's last man standing on the world’s Wreck and addressing the expiring sun suggests a type of heroic face that Beecner turnishes. FIRM AND MASCULINE as these features look when iu repose they drop into the weakest blubvering expression of cnild- hood when moved by inward emotion. The eyes appear to enlarge, the lower lip drops—tne man becomes a boy. The strong voice fails and breaks and pity is excited in the breast of vhe beholder. AS he sits and delivers his evidence tt Is plain to gee the great preacher feeis himself IN A STRAIT-JACKET. In Plymouth churcn he ts accustomed to a plat- | form, where he can walk up and down and adapt the freedom of his attitudes to (he freedom of bis Mind. He is umeasy in the witness chair. He stands up at times, regulates bis coat and sits Gown again. He keeps up fora time an oscilla- tory motion of the body backward ana forward nd folds and re‘olds his arms across his breast. Tilton Was an impassive witness. His voice was cold and unsympatnetic. He showed little or no feeling, and was entirely intellectual. Beecher, with nis strong, Western-like humanity on him, Bis boyish emotion, his apparent candor and trutmfuiness, telis aiferentiy on the audience. ‘The conditions are not alike. The defendant has @ black and dismal charge to meet, and t an- Ber of bis meeting it 1s closely and sharpiy scra- tinized. Yesterday might be cailed a denial day. Mr. Beecher denied, and denied, and denied. He @id it beialy. Some things he repudiated with strong jecling, others he replied to with indiffer- ence, as though mot caring much about their signidcance. THE EVIDENCE. Q Reverring to the interview you spoke of be- tween yourseif and Mrs. Woodbuil, in the fell of 18Tl=-wWhen she invited you wo preside at the Sein. | ‘way Hall meeting, Novewber, 187i—atate when and ‘Where that interview occurred. A. It was on Morning Of the day she delivered the address; it took piace in the irout caamber of Mouiton's house; We were the only persons preseut, Mra, Woodhall and myse'. Q, With the exception of you two, there were mone others preseat? A. No, there might have been afterward. What passed between you on that occasion — What Was the suvject of conversation b en you? A. It nad reierence ely Lo presiding at the meeting; the Interview occupied some twenty minutes; when sbe leit | went down stairs and @uve an aceouut of the interview to Tiion and Mouiton. Q What had become of Mrs. Woodnall? A. I think sae Got inte a coach at the Guer and drove to New York. Q. That was before or after you had a confer. ence with Tuton and Moulton? A. 1 thimk it was after she had gone. State what you said to Moulton and Tilton on that occassion? A. | said to them that she had met me with some jormality and that she said she ‘Was engsged in an unpopular cause, aud that sie Tight to the aympatuies of progressive men ; io desired tO make 0 explanation o1 her that night at @ lecture in Steinway d that she wisned me to preside at tiat ; 1 told her that iu Many respects she sympathy, but that l very seldom allowed t public me ana then, ag kK exception in her forion hope; that e Was embarked in an enterprise where woman was laboring ior the benefit of sock bring about a better #'ate of things in society ; plied to her that tn so sar as ber sentiments were concerned on the wowau’s suffrage movement that L did sympathize with her—not agreeipg in i] The arguments put forth, but that in a general ‘Way l was in javor of Women’s suffrage; but as far as I understood ner ideas on the soctal condi- ton question were concerned—that so far as f did Know Or uncers:and her views on that question [ @id Not agree With her; and she nagded me a roll Of paper—! recollect of printed paper—ind said he Wished me toread ly over, that 1 would see ghat her views were nere; I took the roll of per from her and the conversation went o @nd she continued to urge me by various « siderations to withuraw my refasal to preside at the Meeting to pe held t yening, and Shad teid er [could not, uuder any mstances what- ever, do any fuch thing; she then charyed me with cowardice ; taut 1 was *iraid to lose my in- Gueace aod airaid to avow my sentiments; I ioid her I bad no seatiments | was alraid to avow, and as to the charge of cowardice | suid I supposed 1 must lie unuer that imputation; this was the course O/ the chnversation in various torms; sne Went over the suoject over and over again to the close of the interview; then I arose ang sie rose; IT walked toward tne door aud she walked aiter me toward the door; i there shook bands with her and we parted and she went off; in reiating wiat had occurred and the conversation tha: took place between ne to Tilton and Moaiton after she icit ith mo and sald they were | bev said | had ivat they disayreea gorry [had rerused to ores , It is broad and extended, like the | The mouth is large and shows great mobil- | the | The alternations are quick and sur- | NEW YORK HERALD, THURSDAY, APRIL 8, 1875—QUADRUPLE SHEET. chance to this woman io me as fread Lead Ped mae that Icould not pre- aide at such ® meeting, and would not identi myself with the woman's movement; Mouito think, rephed to that that I need not do t | that it Was au opportunity so show my admiration, | or rather exhibit my principles, in favor of free- dom of discussion on all subjects, and he made use of some expression like this, for me, ‘For Henry Ward Beecher to preside at @ public meeting at ais dt) teocial revolution— believe in it, that it would be & great national and sublime example ;” that was the substance of it. rt How did the matter end in respect to the deliviteness or fidelity of your refusal to presi at that meeting? A, I made my refusal absolute ‘at the time, and she knew it was absolute, Q. Was there anything id at that toterview by you to Mrs. Woodhull, ana stated by you to Moulton and Tilton, that you did not positively dec ine, that you could not then see how you could do tt, but that ifin the afternoon you should come to @ different conclusion that you would preside? A. Nothing of the kind, sir. . Did you state to Moulton and Tilton, or to either of them, on that occasion, a8 part of the conversation at that interview, that you bad not positively declined, bu: that you did not see how you could do tt, ‘but that {hn the alternoon, if you came to a different conclusion, you would go and preside? A. No, sir; | never stated so, Q. On the occasion of the meeting with Mrs, Woodhull at Moutton’s house did you or not ob- serve anytuing in reference to the cordiality or miliarity in the intercourse between Mrs. Wood- hull aad Tilton and between Mrs, and Mr. Moulton and Mrs Woodhull? A, Laid. KISSING WOODRULL. Q. Where and what occurred on fhat occasion ? A. It was in the chamber in Moulton’s house; when Mrs, Woodhull came in to dinner; when Mrs, Woodvull came in Mr, Moulton Kissed her; then Mrs. Moulton entered the room and she also kissed Mrs, Woodbull, meetung her very cordially and pleasantly, Q. Did Mr, Tilton kiss her? A. My impression 1s that he also kissed her, but [have no distinct recollection o! that; I saw Moulton kiss ner, Q. Dia you about this time receive a letter from Mrs. Woodhull? A. I did, Q. State the occasions and the subject upon which you received, if you did receive, any letters irom Mrs. Woodbull? A, | received the first let- ter from Mrs, Woodhull in respect to going oO Washington to speak at a meeting of women in favor of woman’s suffrage ; it Was during a session Of Congress. Q. Do you recollect the date of that letter? A, ‘Yes; it Was the 2d o! January, 1872, Q. Was that letter of January 2, irom Mrs, Wood- hull, the letter you referred toin aletter to Mr. Mouiton? A. Yes, Q. You did receive a letter from her in connec. tion with the meeting at Steinway Hall? A, Yes, Q. What was the date of tnat letter? A, 1 re- member! gotit theday beiore the meeting—1 can’t say but 1t might bave been one or two days before the meesting; that leiter was entirely on the subject of that meeting. a bod you receive any other letter from her? « 1 did. Q. Was that letter after or before the publica- tion of the article known as the Woodhull slander? A, 1t was some time before that; about the 3d of June, Q With the exception of theze three letters, did ou ever receive any ether lower from her? A. 0. Q. What letters did you write to her? A. I wrote her a reply wo the Wasuington letter and a reply to the Gilsey House letier. THE MARMADUKE POEM, Q. Do you recoliect the occurrence, 1n the fall of 1871, of the pubdilcation of Tilton’s poem of ‘Mar maduke's Musings !”" A. Yes. Q. What was the first time you heard of the pub- Meation or were you aware that it was going to ve published? A, Iheard of it torough the newspa- ars. Q. Now, had you any conversation with Moulton afterward concerning the publication of that poem? A, Yes, : Q. How did that conversation arise, and what was said’? A. I don’t know how it arose, but in | the course of the convers \tiun I saia that It was a | dastardly letter, l-porased and would have an til | effect; that it Was an iil bird that jouled its own neat; he said he thought so himseif, Q. Did you in that conversation with Moulton in wuicn this padlication was the subject of your taik | say to him that it almost broke your heart to read | it, ana that you considered it us virtually telling | the waole story of yoursel! and Elizabetut A. No, wir; Ldidn’t say apy such thing as tat, . Did you say anything to that effect about its publication breaking your heart? A, I did; I said it weut to my heart to see or read it; thacit was an arrow snot at Elizabeth; that it would brin Blizabeth’s name betore the public; that is ali remember Saying about the “Marmaduke'’s Mus- | togs.”” Q. In the month of December, 1871, do you rec- ollect the subject coming up between yourself and Tilton, a% (oO his reurinx irom Plymouth church? A. Yes. q. Where was that interview held? A. I don’t | know: Louly remember sometaing of the comver- sation, Q. State what passed between you at that time om that subject. A, He said there had been an | uoirienaly feeltug mantiested to him on the part of members of the church, aud he biamed me ‘or it; this was only a part of many aba {requeat | conversations det Ween Us ay thas lime; Thad under- taken to do ali | couid to resture Mr. Tilton to the rdial good will of my church, Q. What bad passed between you and Mr. Tilton before this ou the supject of the restoration of good feeling towird him on the part of your Churen, i abything? A. I said 1 could vot ‘hola | myself kccountable for the optmions and prejudices | taut existed with regard to tim; that! wus not | respousibie tor them; that I, however, felt satisfied that these beginuings of sorrows and compiain's against nim On the part of memovers of the church | might be oversiaughed and removed if be te:t nis his way clear tu come back again and take pert @s he used to doin the affairs of tne church, and Show ucon his part a cordial feeling toward the | co | members ; and on one of tnese intervie ws with bim [ | | thourut he exbivived @ leaning that way, which in- #pired me Wito hope that t bis Detter state of things might come to i ia such @ delasion | made | conditions that I would guarantee lim a welcome that would set him oigh and dry above ali these | aunoyances; at that last mterview he snowed a | disinciination to act so, and I urged him to take his letter to auotaer caurcn; he said be did not ce tim | to < lasked him tuen to communicate the fact ; he said He Could not Go that in the present state o1 the inquiries tn the churen witn- | | out seeming to avoid or evade them; I said to him | that te could make a simple announcement of the | fact that he Was bot a meaiber, and then that the future action of the chureh would ratty that, but he declined to do this; 1 should say that tuis mat- | ter weut on i.r two or three months, A DIPLOMATIC ANSWER, Mr. ‘Tilton has given @ narrative of an interview jh Whick you said 1D substance that in View of she events o the summer and fail, by tae publication Of the Woodhull sketcn, the presiding at tne Stein- | Way Hall meeting and the puolication of “Sir Mar- maduke’s Musings,’’ there was an impression in | the church that he was a Spirituailst and t he thoroughly abandoned the orsnodox faith, and his name bad been bandied up aod dow: commanity they seit asachurch that they shoula inquire into tne matter; then you said:—"Yes; Jou know, Theodore, how dreadful anu distressing this ts to me, especially as” | Koow how you have come into your disrepute; bat what can i do? How can I explain to my churca memoere? They are crowding me on every bana.’ Now, did any euch Conversation as that take piace between your | A. Not between me and Mr. Tilton, sir, Q. Now, on tua: conversation, or on any con- Versation abour his Nxiug his relations, did you Say to bim, OT did le Say to you, ‘Mr, Beecher, in reference to any criticisms made upon me, oecause Ihave mace @ sketch «1 Wooduull’s life and pre- % on ber beball, you know os that ied me to it, and that a reason to plant ou say anytning of that you have RO right to mal @ thorn in my side’’—dia kind? A, Nota word. Q Did he im any conversation at that time in Which he s00ke of your treating tue offence of “sir Marmaduke’s Musings” a8 uf it Sad been written by Mrs. Stowe or any one else to print it in tne Christian Trion? A, No, sir; DO, sit. Q. Did he use these words at @uy conversation :— “As to the remaining things—my retirement from tue church—gev rid of that in tais Way—Ssay that I told you a year and @ haif ago 1 dia at one ot our earlier interviews, that I a: andoned then the church, that i have mever crossed the thres- | hold of the church since then; assame the power and take My name from the roii; it 1s daagerous to call attention to the fact that my pame is there ; get rid of it im tha way?” 10, Bi Q Did be say that 1! he a#ked for a dismissal, or | wrote @ letter on the subject, it would vugo What be had been doing jor the last yearand a haif? A. No, str; nothing of the kind. Q, Did he use words of this kind ‘You put your request Lo me on the ground that my views ure diferent from those of my childhood; cer- tainiy they are, Dut alow me to remind you that my Views do not differ irom the views of other members in good standing. Iam not more rad- eal in my views than Deacon Freciand or Mr. jafin, and it would be a i@isehood to say that I my well known throughout Christendom as being an asyinm ior | looseness and jiberal Coristian views, and if 1 retire from your church on this ground peopie J. i, uf Tilton has grown so loose | and liberal in oF by leave Piy- mouth church whel igs Never, sir; they sre purely imaginary; I re- | member that he aid not. @ Mr. Tilton farther says that be said to you In this conueciion, You mast rememoer my wile and davguter remain members and their names are on the roli Lretire and they remato it will revive the fawliy Gificuity If not create anew one” A. No, there Was no such statement aud no 4uch discussion. A Cait INTERVIEW, Q. Do you remember meeting him on the cars at Springfeid, Mass.? A, Yes; I was on tne cars and whe sititog some one laid bis hands on my shoulder; I loosed round and saw Tilton; I was much surprised and said, “How did you come nerve?” he wi and Was on h’s way to Boston; we spoke of affairs @\ home, Of bis Wile ana children; he was in one 4 Of his gracious moods; said that | had not been to see lis famliy much and that I should Call aud make it My home as before he leit me, and | later on 1 saw him again, and vhis time 1 sat beside him; Lasked him What le was writing on | the cars, and he said his editorials; he said he had beon reading & charming Work on woman's rights, written by a charm ng mao, and he apoke Of the ofecs it bad upon him; f said, “Well, that is The kind of a DOOK doa’tthiok bad oven lecturing at Pittsfield | | imate on unk coneston any allusion to “Sir Mar- Q A anything of this kind, “Wh: ey * or did you him whether {t was ‘an- other “Sir Marmaduke’s” poem f A, I don't think 1 ever made an allusion to it, | Q. Now, sir, in reference to this book of “Von } Rullman’s Lite.” In that conversation did you say or do anything of this kind—draw a long | breath, and say, “Lf there 1s peace in that book | want it? A. Ido not know whether | drew the | long breath, but the rest 4 think is imaginary, . Now, Mr, Beecher, soon alter this interview | im the cara, you wrote a letter to Mr. Moulton ro- ferring to it—in @ letter of February 3, 1872. Be- | fore writing the letter had anytning passed be- | tween you and Mr, Moulton which induced the writing? A, Yes, | Q. How did that occur and when did It occar? | A, Lwent on a Saturday morning to the office to see Mr, Moulton; it had been a wearisome time trom week to week; Isat for some time waiting | tor him; when hecame in he did not see me, on purpose; he dnally gave me A COLD RECOGNITION and went ont; I went owt with him and forced myself on him; when I entered communication | With him he was very abrupt and even more; 1 began to talk about Mr, Tilton’s demand on me, und that my Iriends were doing me a great deal of damage; Mr. Moulton replied in acutting tone, saying In substance it was very weil ‘or me, who had a church and home, to talk about Mr, Tilton’s feelings, but ne was suffering poverty and annoy- ances; ne spoke with some severity In the mat- ter; It was very trying to mo; I was going away next week; on Monday I felt all this matter und de- cided not to goof belore I bad cleared mysell in ation [ had assumed; | determined I would write fim aletter that would show him what I had done and which might be considered an exhibit of what I had done and what I was willing to do for Theodore Tilton ; you cannot understand the letter unless you understand the gradually accumulated circumstances irom which it was derived, THE RAGGED EDGE LETTER. ur, Evarts then read the letter :— My Duan Fi Tt town today "ant expect t ly Duan Frrenp—I leave to fay ‘and ex; 0 pass through from Philadelphia to New Haven. Shalt not be here till Friday. ‘About two weeks ago I met T. in the cars going to B. | He was kind. We talked much. At the end he told me | to go on with my work without the Jo far as his feelings and actions were thi prehension. ‘On returning home from New Haven (where Tam three days in the week, delivering a course of lectures to the theological students) { found a note from E. saying that T, felt hard toward me and was going to see or write me before leaving for the West . Whom did you refer vo by E.? A, Elizabeth. ). Mrs. Tilton? A. Mrs, Tilton, Mr. Evarts then continued :— She kindly added, “Do not be cast down. I bear thi almost always, but’ the God in whom we trust will a liver us all sitely. I know you do and are willing abun anily to help him, and I also Know your embarrass- ments.” These were words of warning, but also ol con- solation, for { believe k— 1s beloved of God, and that her prayers for me are sooner heard than mitie tor my- self or for her, But it seems that a change has come to T— since Isaw him in the cars. Indeed, ever since, he has felt more intensely the force of feeling in society and the humiliations which envi his enter: he has growingly felt that J had a power to help which [ did not develop, and I believe that you have paracipated in this feeling. Witness—“Limitations,” [think it should be “imitations” instead of “humiilations,”? ‘Mr. Evaris—Tnis ts in the evidence, Q. How had you learned or gained the impress sioa that Mr. Moulton participated in that feeling ? A. [had occasion to on the Saturday tefore, That is what you reier tof A, Yes sir. (Reading.) Ttis natural youshould. T. is dearer to you than I can be. He is with you. ‘All his trials He open to your eye daily, But see you but seldom, and iny personal relations. environments, necessit gers aud perplexities you cannot see or imagine. It I had not gone through this great Year of sorrow. | woutd not have believed thatany one Could pass through my experience and be alive or sane. Witness—And sane, (Reading.) I bave been the centre of three aistinct circles, each one of which required clear-mindedness and peculiarly inventive or originating power—the great church. the newspaper and the book; the tirst I Could not sight; the newspaper I dla roll off; the “Life oft Christ,” long delayed, had to be finished, as the capi- tal of the firm was locked up in it: to say thatt have & church ou my bands 1s sinple enough, but to have the | hundreds and thousands of men pressing me, each ono with his keen susvicion or anxiety or zeal; to see ten- Gencies Which, if not stopped. Would break out into ruinous defence of me: do it; to preventany one questioning me allay prejudices against 1., witich had ing years before this; to keep serene, as if | was not alurmed or disturbed; to be cheerful at home aud among friends, when 1 was suferivg the tormeuts of the datuned ; to pass sleepless nights often, and yet to come up ‘iresh and full for Sunday—all this may be taiked about, but the real thing cannot be understood trom che outside, nor its wearing aud grinding oa the nervous sysiem. . What anxiety and troubles aid you refer to in that letter? that che trouble im Mr. ‘Ititon’s jamily suould pot be made a matter of publicity and dragged into ¢ to meet and heir bevin. pregnant suffering; (he preceaing conversations had tarned Qpon this ground that 1 had camaged | mr. Tilton’s position, Dame and pecuniary re- soarces; that my sald greatinfluence with Mr. Bowen had matertaily damaged his interests. Mr. | letter:— God knows that I nave put more thought and judgment and carnest desire into my eitorts to prepare a way tor and E. than ever did for myself a hundred-fold. as the outsid never lost am opporiuuily to iten prejudices. to refute falsehoods and to excite | Kindly feeling among ail whom I meu among clereyimen, public men and generally the makers of public opinion, ‘aud I have used every ratenal en- deavor to restrain “the evils which have been visited upon T., and with increasing success.” Q. Now, Mr, Beecne:, what in your own conduct or effort does that clause refer to? A. It reiers to tue prolonged endeavor that 1 had made to say that | believed the stories Mr. Bowen had bruited were faise; I believed Mr, Tilton to be an honest man—neituer a lecner nor a drunkard; that 1 be- Heved him to be weak in some things, bat still the brilliant man that he was when at the head of tae Independent. Mr, Evarts read a paragraph ending ‘and the children would bave their juture,” and asked tue meaning of it. public Tha Putation that alfected bis cha: acter, except those connected With Nis socialistic ideas and the Woodbull; I could not not undertake to clear his character on socialistic subjects, but in regard to | his nousebold, Edzavech aud the children; if be desired that matter to be brought up for invest | tion Lthought it would destroy tue churca, and rather than kill Plymouth church [had an exag- gerated idea, but it was a reai idea, that anything Of that kind i would suffer, anything but that that church should siand; then, as for tim and his and the children—tius is not exactly tne lan- guage of a literary or logical statement, but it is nguage ol—(bursting into tears)—as when “{ coula wish myself accursed from Christ for my brotver’s sake,"’ or David said over Absalom, “Would to God that I had died for thee’—il my going out of tne charch and out of the ministry, and so the destruction of my profes- sional life Would restore things as they were, I bad the feeling, certainly, when I wrote this letter, the court of h nor for the fulfilment of every oblt- limitations, dan- | to stop them without seeming to | Witoess—I undertook to clear him from an im- | | the | presened @ good man; | ana could not—I had tried over and over and over | A 1 reterred to the anxiety | had | my church; it was that troucle drew out my | | fication, any of the charges therein contained ? | Evarts then Continued to read irom the | | admitced in any form ordegree? A. Not in any | that aesignation till i heard 1 in Court here; to give them ail up willingly to put things back as | they were. Mr. Evarts in continfied reading and gave that ding “che 8 Pp ed if the clause expressed his jeet- 1D, Yes, sir, feeble woras> if there had = been stronger expressions I should have used them. | Q. Here is an expression, “be as bad as horror and darkness?” A, I don’t know; I only knowl am subject to very great darkness sometimes Mr. Evaris, 1 did not do rignt say ng, “Most of my time:’’ | lived very dear to God then, and the most of my time I had peace (weeping) Q Waeat was the condition of your temper at the time of wrisiog this letier; A. I was int very depth of the depths of despair, Monday leer aiver suca a Sasuraay. | __@ Now, sir, in these clauses, or any of them, of this letter, as I have read it to you, was there Present to your mind any thought, idea or memory | | relation with and ragged | of any criminal mtercourse with Mrs. Tilton? A. | No, #if; None at ail; none at ali; I had no need of | th there was enough to my thought—io hurt- | ing @ friend, in destroying & housenold, in being | unraitnrl to the highest nonor of ooligations— there Was cnough in that to torment me with the torments of the damned; | know of no more hor- Tible thought in this world than to betray or burt afriend; I don’t say that other things are not worse, but I say | could suffer as much joptais as for anything, tf | have a capacity to suffer. Q. To what do you allude when you say, “Yor too, cease to trust me, /am alone?” A. I cowl have gone to 500 (riends; that was simply a recog- Aition taatl shut up by circumstances to him. q. By what circumstances? A. By that policy of silence which ali oi us entered into. Q Now, sir. in this expression, “Though y love me not,” what was the reference? A. It w: the story of that Saturday when he turned away from me and treated me as if he thought 1 was not the man he thougiit | was. Q. What sorrow oppressed you that year that youreerto? A. Oh, the everlasting resurrection Of tms trouble was another form o1 in one orm or anvther it wa up; I settied it, and regarded it over many time, only to meet it again io aggra force, and year by year it grew worse. 3 you any other sorrow or cause of sor- row, lear or cause of lear, remorse or cause of re: I bed abundant cause ior tea and trouble about myseil, Q. In what connection? A. Because I had | unspeakable dread of at me; I was @ minister ana therelore a woma to have this matter brought into the enarch it Woald divide it into three parties, aud I did not have @ dood: that it would result in a conflagration that would destroy that church and destroy my 3 S. s > usefuiness for ite; I feit 1 did not seo | now 1 could get out of it; how | could ¢ rid of all tne damaging stories that ft, Bowen bad assailed me with, backed up by the charges of a man and wn innovent wo- man; for their sake [did a great deal and a great deal for myselfaal was the minister of a church that | could not bear to see fall. q Was any other charge except that of im- made’ A, No, but I tilak that | proper advan ‘was enoagh. imputation resting on | Qs Now, sir, after this lotter which I have read | | and before you wrote tnat one of Maren 2 . 187, had any particular intercourse taken piace be-* tween you and Mr. Moulton? A. Yes. q. What had occurrea? A, I think it was about that time Mr. Moulton showed me and I for the frst time read Mr, Tilton’s letcer to Mr. Bowen, ‘what is called the Golden Age article; that whole Month was & Month of agitation. @ What was tue subject that male the agita- | fessional character as @ journalist in connection | year that Ido not feel that 1 am near my end. nar, Tam thrown | OF the setuiement Oo! the payments to Tilton? A, tion? A. Tt was about tho reinstating of Mr. Tilton; but peculiarly the reinstatement in the matter of Mr. Bowen's dimcuity. Q. This preceded the tripartite agreement? A. sir. Evarts then read the letter of March 25, an ng attention to @ portrait alinded to, aske' for an explanation, A, It was a grand old head that Mouiton had seen at my house, and 1 had framed and sent to him, Q “I have been doing ten men’s work this win- ter, partly to make up for lost time, partly because | liive under a cloud, feeling every month that [ may be doing my last work and anxious to make the most oi {t;’” and what was there that induced the feeling that you expressed, “That you were doimg your last work and anxious to make the most of it ?? A, Well, ol course, there Was some story in relation to this difficulty that I heard all ime; Ido not think there isa month tn the Q You also use the expression “Under o cloud.” A, Yea, that was the local diMculty, Q. “When Esan sold his birturight be found no place for repentance, though he sought it care- fully with tears.” Now, sir, in reference to yourself, or any experience of yours, aid you make this ref- erence to Esau, and if so what? A. It was a very Natural one lor a minister to make; 1 nad times from it; Bsan sold is Oirthright, and tried time and time again to have himself reinstated—to make the matter bevter again, to have the mistakes and errors | had fallen into in that tamily repaired, and they never would be repaired; Ldon’t—{ did not quote tt, sir, as a literary matter, but rather as a sacredly orna- mental passage. Q. “Ihave Known you and found In you one who has given @ new meaning to irieudship."’ This ex- ression, Mr. Beecher, of your estimate and teel- ug in regard to Moutton, in his relations to you, was it @ true expression ol your ieelings? A. ‘Tnat expression of my feeling to Mr. Moulton was true; I regarded him as a brother; I thought him &@ Splendid specimen of a man; he was a counter- part of mine; 1 thought he had given a new inter- pretation to friendship, and I think so still. Q. In reference to the “night cometh when no man can work,” whal dia you mean? A, lt was simply taking & serious view Of things. Q. Now, sir, Was tuere an interview with Mr. Moulton at whicn the Golden Age article Was con- sidered? A, There was. Q. In what shape was the article? A. In galley proor; it consisted of Mr. bowen’s letter, some prefix and some comments, Q. Where was toatinterview? A, It was in Mr, Moulton’s house; he was in bed in bis back chamber. Q. How came you there? A, I think I nad just come back irom lecturing and ran down to see him. Q. Were you asked? A. 1 do not think so;I was in the habit of droppiug in to see him on my Teturn from a trip. x Was Mr. Tiiton present? A. No, sir. ‘ne Court then adjourned until two P. M. AFTER BSCRSS. The crowd of women has disappeared, Mrs. Field 18 still conspicuous, and the poor delicate girl who appears to be reporting the proceedings for some newspaper is still here, The Judge throws a glance over the scene and looks satisfied. The Beecher people settle into their seats cond- dent and smiling. Floor Manager Cauldwell, of Plymouth church, is busy in finding seats for the members, and camp stools and cane-bottomed chairs seem to rise out of the ground at his bid- ding. Dr. Beecher takes a position near the jury in o line with bis brother, and his ear ts given en- tirely to the evidence. Mr. Beecher’s daughter, Mrs, Scoville, sits in a direct line with her father, as does also Mrs, Beecher, and in the aces of these two women great interest, expectation and anx- lety are pictured. THE BOWEN LETTER, Q. Mr. Beecher, wow give us the conversacion thas took place between you and Mr, Moultou in Mouiton’s house on the Golden Age article? A. He toid me to read it and say woat! thought of it; I read the article (the Bowen letter) and 1 was astounded, and | said, “Good heavens! what do you mean, Frank?” he wanted to know what the effect 01 1ts publication would be, and | said the effect would be tnevitable; that its publication would just deieat everything we have been trying to do; it would be a disclosure of the whole mat- ter and the whole thing become public; he says, “You taink so? I said, “1 Kuow #0;” this was the who of the mversation On toat sudject; tuls 18 about the substance of it. Q. Did you read the whole vf this slip, tneiuding the whole of the Bowen letter? A, Iread it cur- sorily. Before this had you seen the Bowen letter? A. No, sir, that was my rst sient of it -there was something about the charges—tue Iniamy of those one of Bowen. Q. What more was sata? A. Idon’t know, sir; Texpressed mysell strongly, a4 @ clergyman and & Obristian could without swearing, but it was an intense abjuration. Q. Now, L ask whether at that time. or at any other time when the Bowen lever was men- tioned, did you ever admit, with or without quai A. No, I never did. ere there amy Of these matters which you { 1orm or degree, verliy. manner, sha Knowledge did you have prelimi- Q. How mu of the aroitration, tne tripartite covenant Very little; {had something to do with it in re- gard to Mr. Moulion; I had nothing to do with it 1m regard to O:her parties; | learned from Mvulion that there had been some preliminary meeting and that they meant to draw up articies whicn soould idclude us all in that final settlement; I supposed irom what I heard here on the trial that the first paper Lrecelved was the draft that was brought to me—che draft unchanged in the article concerning Ttiton if I recoitect; I read tuat dis tinctly and I was inquired of if i would sign tout, and tne draft was said | would aiterward; brought to me by Mr. Claflin; 1 took no furtni arc in it; | was merely the recipient and obe- ient actor lu if, the matter wag wholly managed by others. THE TITPOR-TAT BUSINESS. Q. Now, do youremember anytuing arising ana bought to your notice in reference to what has been spoken of as the “tit-for-tat” articie pro- ceeding irom the Woodhull & Claflin press? A. 1 never saw it; I heard it spokea of—i don’t think I heard any aliusion to that article by Tliton—out not under that designation; | never heard of it by simply heard bim give a statement of an article | which the Woodoulis, as | underst.od, proposed to publish, but woich Was guing about in slips, and included in it @ great many respectable men against whom charges jade, and that on seeing that he had dowo im great indignation and obrok connection with her as (Poriously ay praising her; er urge Q. Mr. Tilton bas distinct Mra. Woodnu! said that for his you were as re- msinle as he was himseli? A. I say before that I was not responsible for it at all; tt was surprise to me from the beginning; with regard the appearance of the artcie kuown as the “Woodhull Scandal,” my impression as to its coming appearance cat to this way; had a Visit irom @ tall, thin, y old gen au, about sixty, who came to tell me that there was awiul thing going to be publisned. Objected t Q Did you subsequently tell Mr. Tiltun G ned om that subject ? A. Very likely; Laon’t moer. Did you tell him that levied uyon you? A. No, 8! ‘er. Q. Did this cail or advertisement of the intended pudlication o1 this articie form the subject of con- versation between you and Moulton? A. I re- hearsed it to him; I merely descrived the vid gen- tleman; roid nim that | saw from that there was something coming; that he seemed to be greatly distre-sed and that he came over to see if it could not be stopped in some way; Mr. Moulton then this man had come over to blackmull, last edopted that view of it; thas was the result of that ti tion. When the publication itself took place how was it Drought to yournotice? A. 1 think the trst I heard of the occurrence was from Mr. McKelway, Who came to me from the Hagle office, saying— cCourt—And gave you notice of the publica- tion? Mr. Beecner—Yes, sir. Mr. aera did he advise you about the Publication ‘The Court—We can’t take the conversation. Q. How did he give yon that notice? A. Ichange the word “notice” to “imtormation.”” Mr. McKel- called on me, assuming that I had seen the ad eto me about it; he called | oke to me of this a8 & publication aiready made; I had not then seen it. Q. But therealter, how did you come into knowl- edge aboat it? A. I repaired, with Mr. McKoiway, | to Mr. Kinsella, at the Zagle ‘stood | the ariici¢ to be im the ofice bac | did not see tt. Q. Were you advised of the nature of it? A. T was; | asked Mr. MoKelway to give me the sub- svance of 1t, which he did, NEGLECTING HIS INTERESTS, Q When did you first see or read the article itself? A. L never have yet. Mr. Evarts—Now, whea did any matter of co! ference— Mr, Beecher—I beg your Bomy afver this trial had begun I was tastrucved one day oy counsel to read over the publication; I oegan to’ read it, but did not get through witn it. Q. When did it frst come wu suitation between yoursel/. Mr, Mogiton and Mr. Tilton? A. I sent irom the agile office to Mr, Mouiton’s house; | saw him at his counting nouse in New York, and benind the counting Gesk we had some considerable conversation in regard to | the publication; we then came over to Brooklyn, | taking the Montague street ferry, and Mr. McKel- way going by Fuitoa ferry. ton abe rem ny blackmail bad been nev omer un at that me, as a matter of cun- bat Was said between you and Mr. Monl- | n about that pabdileation? A. 1 do not reme ber that Mr, Moulton said he had seen it; bi vised me to say nothing about it; it was part of | the errand to Mr. McKelway to know whai I had | to Say avout the publication; he called in his pro- with the Eagle, Q. Alterward was the question of whether any publication of any kind suould be prepared in re- ply to it & #adject of consultation between you both? A. At first not of consuitation, but advice came to me from tany parte: | Were made om you by your Q On what errand did they come to yout (Ob- Jected to.) Mr. Evarts—I do not propose to show what the advice was, Q. Did bie receive advice from a variety of peo- plo? A. I dta. Q. What part 414 you take, and with whom, on uestion of deciding Whether any auswer should be made? A. With Mr, Moulton princl- pally, and also with mir. ‘Tracy. When did you see Mr. Moulton and where? A, 1saw him at his house; it may have been tuat evening or the next day, Q Wus Mr. Tilton present at that time? A. No, Ido not think Mr, Tilton was present at that time, Q. What was the conversation you had with Mr. Moulton on that subject? A, He seemed not to have any doubt in his own miod at all on the mat ter, and his counsel to me wa, Irom first to lust, to treat It with contemptuous silence. TRACY COMES IN. Q. Was Mr. Tracy connected with Mr. Moulton in any Way in this conference? A. You asked me whether {had counsei with Mr. Tracy ; i! you read the question I will tell you how. Q. Was Mr. Traey advising yon, in connection with a number of other people, and not with * Moulton? A, Not with Mr, Moulton, bat with others, Q. When next, ifat all, was the question of an answer to be made discussed or the policy of silence to be maintained? A. I can't give the details; It was a thing that Was agreed on at once; tals within @ week or ten days, and there were various conierences and conversations be- tween me, Mr, Moulton aod Mr, Tilton in regard to it, all of them recommenuing silence, Q. When did any interview with Mir, Tilton take place? A. On his return from his New Hampsuire tip, soon aster, Q Where did the conversation between you and him take place? A, in Mr, Moul!ton’s study in the morning; he came there very much excited. Were you there when Mr, Tilton came? A. I think I was; I think { was there with Mr. Moulton when Mr, Tilton came in. Q. Belore Mr. Tilton came in was there any con- yersation Darwen you and Mr, Moulton? a, If there was f do not recall any; Mr. Moulton de- nounced the publication. with indignation, and de- red that he shoula wherever he went deny it n atrocious story; he spoke to my heart's con- tent about it; he took me by the hand, and, [ think, by both hands, and horized me in his name—he enjoimed me—to say that it was an in- famous and atrocious falsenood; tne question of making this contradiction in the public payers was something diferent; tt was understood that we should retrain from publication, Q. AS & part of this Interview or conference was anytulog said by you in peaped to your wish or preference for a denial? A. 1 said I was pre- pared to make a written denial if it was thought best, but that 16 Was @ denial that ougnt to come from me, Mr. Moulton and Mr. Tilton, as all of us were lwplicated in the statement, Q, How was that proposition received by those geutlemen? A, They took it into consideration, Q. Tuat was the Substance of that interview? A. Yes; if there was to be any card it was re+ served a8 a matter for further consideration, Q. How soon thereafter was there anything said or done on the subject matter ot the cardy A. 1 cannot exactly—in November or December; there was a pressure that ied Mr. Moulton to re- open the question whetuer something might not be properly done in the way of puolication. Q. How was it talked of? A, I cannot say, Q. Was there any agreement that there should be pubucation? A, The agreement was accord- ing to the original purpose, to LET THE CHING DIE. Q Now, at this interview you have spoken of, do you recall any further interview between these two gentlemen, or elther of them, on the suoject of the pubilcation or denial of ? A. It was a matter of conversation every time We met; Low oiten we met then I cannot say, t vo you remember It Was a subject of couver- sation at d.fferent times and on several days? A. Yes; I told them what was said to me about the publication, and they told me what was said to toem in regard to it in their various perambuia- tions; we uadertook to form @ judgment concern- ing it; Ldeterred to Mr. Moulton® judgment on the matter; I deierred to ais Juggment geuerally, but not always, Q. Following the publication of the Woodhull matier, was there at any time a conclusion arrived at to make a public response? A. There wus sometbing that 1 understood, aulirst, to mean that, but 1 was mistaken, . Now, sir, at either of those interviews at which Mr. Tilton was present aid this occur—“Mr, Beecher said the best thing to be done was to say nothing On the subject; that if any denial was made it would provoke the Woodhulla to publish the statement in some other form, and that if it was denied once it would have to ve denied asain two or three times, ora great many mes?” Do | you remember anything of that kind occurring? | A. No, sir; Lrememoer something akin to it; all I said was this—that we had to make up our minds that, if we had to go into a denial of part, 1s would Nave to be lollowed up, not of vhs | one, bat oi many ones. Now, sir, do you remember expressing an | Opinion at apy of those conversations that you | said you had changed your mind with regard to bavilg anytuiug to Say to that publication and that you said you thought Tilton ougnt to publish a card sug prepare acard?’ A. I aiways thougat from the that If it Was to be done at all it was not for me alone to do It; that Mr, Tiltom snould do it in defence of his Jamuy. Ww, sir, dO you rewember any conversation On the subject between you in which you expressed yourseif in tis Way—tuat the time when silence concerning the Woodoull scandal should be ov- served had passea—tnat 80 many demauus friends the pressure Was geiting to be unenduradie, and then that you advised a scheme of tais kind, Now. suppose We made au appeal to the sentiment of the community; suppose, for instance, some Teputable paper, Say the New York 7ridune, would pubiish, semi-oficially, & statement saying there was sume ground for Mrs, Wooahull’s story, and we get tl contradicted on what Bowea bi written and retracted, it need uot be signed vy our own names. Weil, it will be said, there is something in the Woodhull story waich Bowen has retracted.” Did anytaing of that kina occur on your suggestion or ailvice ? A. Not one solitary thougut or Word o/ that is mine; it is @ fiction. Mr. Evarts—Now, joa nave a card which i evidence—the proposed denunciation o1 the hull. Whatis the number of that? Mr. Morris—No. 23, By Mr. Evarts—is that among them? A. I don’s know, sir: What date is it? is in Woou- | made no_ reply; Q No date toit. It ia im December, 1872, I think. somewnere about there, or November, 1572, Toere, there, there itis, A. Well, What do you ask me, Mr. Evarrs? Q. i will call your attention to it, and then I will ask you a ques ton. Do you remember avout tuat | tascomimg up? A. Yes, sir. Q AS proposed for consideration at some one of these iuterviews? A, Not tuis card, but I r Member cards. Well, were there various cards? A. Yes, sir; that is to say, & conversation arose in Mr. Mo’ ton’s rovm, and J tink Mr. Titon wasn’t present, aud I said to Mr Moulton, “It reems to me Mr. ‘Tilton will never get quit of tais matter so jong as | he Aas amovg good people the repuiation of ve- leving in these Women or in their doctrines, and my idea of deliverance 1s by a glurious and manly act to cuc himseil louse from tuem;” Mr. Moulton seemed to be struck with it id said, “Weill, pose you draw up somethi as you ., banka two or three form: end forms—and one, I thougut, was very good, but it is not this one, ey dis Q. is that yours ? A. I can't say, sit; Imade two or turee litte beginnings and they were un- satalying and i Gnaily fell upon a form of state- ment | liked better, aud that was proposed aud | declined, Q. Now tn reference to—I will read this card. Dir. Morris—W hat ts the number of this 7 r. Kvart-—No, | will read tai little one =23. The Witoess—i don’t know Whether toils is one Of those beginning cards or not, sir. Mr, Evarts banued a paper to the witness, Tae Witness—i think that this is the first ide when it occurred to me. Q. That is your writing? A, Yes, sir, and I Wrote it on a leaf, and that gave rise to sometuing more, unui there Was something that grew. Q. Now tae poiat lam coming at 1s in reference to bois statement. “in an unguarded ent nusiasm 1 hope well and much o1 one who has proved ut- | suail never again nutice her | nd now utterly repudiate ner statements | made coucerning me aad mine.” That Was pro- eg ve signed by Mr. Tilton, 1 suppose? A, es, sir. Q Now aid Mr, Tilton, in reference to that card and as an Objection to iis being published by him, Say to you that you knew it was not an unguarded enthusiasm that ied him (Mr, Tiiton) to Mra, Woodnuli’s, but he went there for the purpose of bringing bis family and mimself and M echer from tne result of ory Which she origiualiy threatened? Was that suid to you? A. No, sir, it was not, Q. Anything of the kina? A. Nothing of the kind; tus Was Dot designed to ve @ card of Q. Well, it spoaks for itseif, that card does? A. | Of the stor |. Now, at any of these interviews, ia you say to Mr. Moulton, aiter this pub.ication of ine Woud- hull scandal that you had come to consult with him, Mr, Moulton, as to what was best to do with Feference to the publications. What reply could be made, ifany couid bs made. Did you, in that convection, or in any other way say to bim, that you Saw fo Way for this siuce that story lad veen | publisnea? A. No, sir. Q. Did you say anything in connection with that subject, or how did you express yourself, if at all? | don’t remember; | oaly remember what I Q Nothing Nig kind was said by you tn re- ward to this? 1 MR, PULLERTON’S FUN. Q At this time or during this period, or later- views, how do you remember /—— Mr. Evarts did not finish the question, but turn- ing to his associates began rh tay seacch for & number of exhibits. About*ten minutes was consumed by this delay in the proceedings. i Mr. Fulesyoe-~Per ps we had better cross-ex- mine a little until tuey get ready to gu on. (Sup: | pressed laughter.) = sidings | Judge Neilson (Jocosely)—You cen do so tf you agree to close this aiceraoon, Mr, Fullerton. Mr. Kvarts (resuming)—Q. Now, sir, piease ‘nok at this note (Exhibit No, 46] and recall the period denial to your mind 1 you can. That refers to an inter- view between Mr. Halnday and Mr, Moulton as having taken place, doesa’t it? A, Yes, sir, Q Now, Mr, Moulton repurted to you that inter- view, did he nov? A. Yes, sir; 1 believe he did, | Q Yes; now, in connection with Moulton reporting you that interview or in reference to tne interview taking piace before It book place, | the conciusion ‘was—did anything of thia kind ocour between you aud Mr. Moulton that Mr. Moulton wus not to tell Mr, Hallida: ? A. no sir; be y the facts 10, didn’t want to tell him any more than I did, Q (Showing paper) Look at that letter, Mr. Beecher, which is without date, and say bow soon after this Woodhull scandal was made public that letter was written by you to Mrs, Tilton? A. Witbin—within three or four weeks. Was that written in pursunce of any con- ference or in any way? A, lt Was—uO, not con+ ference ; tt was written—— Mr. Beach—That was the question, Be 4 Witness—Lpon a suggestion, not confer- ie. a From whom did any suggestion proceea? A. I thtok Mr, Moulton suid it Would be agreeable to Mr, Tilton if L would address to lis wife a nove of sympathy, Q. Yes; and did you address it, and at that time? A. He said a note of sympatny addressed to Mr. Deming, I believe—the matte!s, he thought would be agreeable both to Mr. Tilt.n and to Mrs, Tiiton—and 1 wrote this letter and handed it to Mr. Moulton, woo wasn’t satisfied wita it. Well, what became ot it? ir, Fullerton—Wuat’s that number, Mr, Evarte? Mr. Evarts—103, D, 103. he Witness—He sent it; he to'd me alterward; he said it explained to Mr, Tilton the point of view Jrom which I had written it as 4 baa explained it to nim; Liound, aiter 1 nad leit it with him, aad saw him again, they expected I would write a letter of denial to Mrs, Tilton, Q, You handed 15 to tim and he sent tt to Mrs, Tilton, as you understood? A. Yes, sir, a3 Lun- derstood. Q. At that time. Mr, Beecher, Mr. Tilton, has spvken of an interview toward the close of De- cember, He gives 11 1872—'he pertod we are now at. Now, Mr. Beecher, toward the end of this month of December, durmg the month of December, 1872, or. November and December, 1872, do’ you Temeinber any conference between Mr, Moulton, Mr. Tilton and yourself, in which the matter of some public denial, in some form, was considered, and any papers produced, or read or examined ? A. Nothing in November, Q. Well? A, There wi conference the last of Decemoer. * Q. Tne last of December ? A. Yes, sir, : Q. Where did that occur? A, At Mr. Moulton's Ouse. 4 Q. Who were parties to that consideration, who were present? Well, Mr. Tiiton, Mrs, ‘Tilton and myseli in the immediate conversation; preparatory stages o/ it Mr, Mouiton; Mr. Moulton, Stated to me that Mr. Tiliou had got a pian, he thought, by which he could make some iorm of statement that would clear him from the imputa- tions that Were resting oa him, and at the same time the whole matter couid be set in such @ way BEFORE THE PUBLIC as mone be for tne iurtherance of the interest all roun Yes, very well. Now at this timo, when Mrs, Tilton was present, Mr. Beecher, there were soma letters, were there nol? A, Yes, sir; Lhad been requested to prepare a letter of denia! to accom- pany @ statement if such a ove shoud be made, Ye A. And Mr. Tilton was to make a state. ment also in dental, and Mrs. Tilton was to make Statement, or rather denial, to go into some sort of statement, Q. And it was when some letters of that kind ‘Yulton was present? A, Yea, were up that Mrs, sir. Q. Now, sir, prior to that was there an Inter- view between yourself, Mr Moulton and Mr, Tilton, at which a paper or document that has been called tue “true story,” was read? A. No. Q. Was there an occasion at which that waa read? A, Yes, sir. When was it? A. Later than that, . You think later than this. Now we will take that interview where the “true story” was read, Who were present at that time? A, Mr, Moulton, myself and Mr. Tilton, the meeting occur? A. In Q Ana where did Moulton’s bearoom. MR, BRECHER HEARING THE TRUE STORY. Q. Now, will you state what took place there? . Mr, Moulton toid me Mr. Tilton would come round aud read a statement that he had pre- pared; | heard novning o1 it, except that he was preparing something. Q. Preparing something? A. I asked Mr. Moul- ton what it was; he said he aido’t know, aud hadnt read it limseil; Mr. Tilton was going to read it Lo him and me that night; sol went taere to hear it, and Mr. iilton—sual! L give you— Q Just state wnat occurred? A. Mr. Tilton be. g4u, sitting ov the sola, and fixed his payers, and Opened the remarks to me by saying, *Taere ove single sentence which, if [coald stand, thought that Ishouid be able to stand tue whol document; then he commenced reading; HE DIDN'T READ THE SENTENCE; began reading what was called afterward the ‘true story,’ and read oa untilhe came to that assage in Which | was charged with asking Mra, ‘Tilton to ve a wile Lo me, with all that is implied in that term, and he looked up aud said, “This 18 the Seutence which, if you can stand, the rest of the document won't hurt you,’ and £ I was lying on the bed, I think; be went On reading aod readiog, aud I getting madder and madder, and when he nad fished itl got up and began to walk about the room, aud said nothing, and finally I think he or Mr. Mouitor ‘ked me what f had to say. [At this point there was a@ slight commotion among the audience.) Juage Neilaun—Gentiemen, please be quiet. I see the storm rising, ‘The Wicness—And I walked up and down the room, and finally 1 turned to him and said— Q. fo whom?’ A. To Mr, Tilton, very quietly— “Mr. Tilton, 1 18 NOt lor me to say WHat you suall or what you shall not puolisa; but I want you to Uaoderstand if you publish this statement, and that sentence iu tt, 1 wi not stand 1t nor agree to ll, and that is the end; I wili not have any such Statement as that come out and not meet tt per- emptorily; @ that he gathered himself up jion- like—[he the witness imitated Mr. Tilton’s manner]; his lace flushed, and he be; to storm very loud on the subject, aud Mr. Moulton took him in hand instautly and 1 drew back, out, aad THE LION AND THR TIGER HAD THE FIGHT by themselves; tt was a good, lively discussion and in respect to the struciure of the whole docu- meut and in respect to the insertion of that; part ol the time Mr. Moulton was in the ascendancy, art of the time [ think Mr, Tilton oad the best of jt, aud it went on so for a very Consideravie period and ended unsatisiactoriiy Tam persuaded; that Was the suvstaace of that imterview, Q. AS to the cesait of that interview was there any ucteriination to publish tae “trae story Mr. Bouci—Va, weil, what Was expressed ? T..c Witaes \—Novnin® satd, thing tartner salt; well, did you Stimd it was to be published ? Mr. Beach—I object to it; Mr. Beecher, one mo- ment. Q What was the result of that interview in — Ol Wacther that was to be puviishea or hot Mr. Beach—1 submit he cannot state the result eXcept irom what was said. Judge Neilson—Trhat’s so, What was said on that subject, if any taing t Mr. Evarts—Weil, What was said further? A, Nothing. Q. Beiore you broke up? A. Nothing that! re- member; there Was nothing said abuut printing, at oar rete Orsi, middle nor last, that | recall. Q. Wasn't tuls paper read as one that was pro posed Jor publication ? Mr. Beach—Iinat is objected to, One moment. Judge Nolison—What was said ou taat subject? Mr. Evarts—How was the matter introduced ? Why was the paper read to your Beach—Ovjected to, sir, except as to what was said. Mr. Evarts—Well, what was said concerning tals paper before 1t was read to you ? Mr. Beach—Why. | understood Mr. Beecher to say of the interview that he was requested to come there aud hear @ paper that was proposed to be published, ir. Evarts—Very well. The Witneas—I would like to correct that state- | ment, Mr. Beach, so far as to toat | was to hear & statement that was 4) Cy by Mr, Tilton, and while [understood it was for publica- tion I suoulda’t be Wiking to say that was stated to be the object. Jade Netuson—Now, the counsel wishes to learn whetner—— Mr. Evarts—When was anything said about its beiug goctsees ’ Mr. Beach—He says nothing was said. Mr. Evaris—I now ask you the qaestion, Mr. Beecher, when Was anything said about its oeing ublisved, to which you replied that If It Was pub- hed you could not endure it. The Witness—I oad the impression all the — of course, mot because taey sald so; why shoul they draw up a stwry oatto puvlish it? f said If this is publishe( [ will Go 80 and so; but that doa’t anon uP it, taat tuey said they wore going to pubitsa tt When Mr. Tilton said, “If you can stand assage in it, you can stand the whole ?” A. Yes, rr, Q. Did that convey tne meaning to you that you Could stand the pabitcation of tt : Mr. Fuilerton—1 object to it. Judge Netison—You can’t add to what was said. Mr, Beach—I don’t tnink anyoody wiil deay thas Mr. Beecuer understood it Was proposea to pub~ ic Evarts—That being so, then—at the close— before your interview terminaced, ie Was said. rton—Then take tuat and draw your own inierence, Mr. Heacu—He has stated that nothing was sald except wnat he related. Mr. Falierton—He can’t go on and add, Mr. Beach—What do sou want to kaow, Evarts ? Mr. Evaris—We want to know tf before that meeting broke up 1t was decided to have that pub- lisnea or not. Mr. Puilerton—Tuere waa nothing satdon the sudject, so your knowledge will Lave to oe de- rived from thas, Mr. Evarts—We are always permitted to prove a conference, whether anytning Was stated. ties go off loaving the thing in- complete jor further consideration without deier- Buoation, @nd NOW that is all | wish to Come out The Witrf¥as—If you will aliow me, Mr. Evarts, f left before the parties left, @ Belore they leit? A. Yes, sir; when | leit THEY WERE AT IT, Q. In the talk? A. Yes, sir; more or lesa, Q. You were not there atthe end? A. No, sir; was not, Q. Now, What was the lost thing you said on the 1 [CONTINUED ON THIRTEENTH PAGHK1