The New York Herald Newspaper, December 25, 1872, Page 8

} } THE COURTS. ——— THE STOKES TRIAL---SIXTH- DAY. Phe Story of the Shooting Like a Thrice-Told Fale---The Witnesses Unshaken in Their Testimony---An Exhaustive Session, but Nothing New Elicited--The Case Adjourned ‘Till To-Morrow. —_———— THE TAMMANY RING FRAUDS. a The Motion to Quash the Indictments Against Hugh Smith and Others Granted—Important Decision by Recorder Hackett. —_———_ BUSINESS IN THE OTHER COURTS. ——— S@ammaries—Important to Sheriff's Officers— Business of the Gencral Sessions— An Appeal Case—Decisions. Yesterday Commissioner Shields committed Richard Brandon to await the action of the 4 Jury on a charge of stealing mail bags from Post Oftice. Patrick Doyle, who had been accused of running an illicit distillery, was yesterday discharged by @ommissioner Shields, T. Jacobs, charged with selling whiskey without a@ license, was held in $500 bail for examination by Commissioner Shields, The Stokes trial made considerable headway Yesterday. The evidence of the witnesses who had already testified at the previous trial was again given, with considerable accuratencss and con- mistency, and the defence made very little, if any, @iscrepancies therein that they might desire to present to the jury. The case stands adjourned till to-morrow. Recorder Hackett yesterday rendered a decision tm the case of The People vs. Henry Smith and Others {for alleged frauds upon the city. A motion ‘Was made to quash the indictments, and that mo- tion has been granted. THE STOKES TRIAL. a ‘Yesterday was the sixth day of the Stokes trial. ‘There was nothing in any of the features of it or of such proceedings as properly and legally attached to it to demand particular notice. The testimony throughout is almost a repetition of what was given on the first trial, and this is one of the strong points of the prosecution as against the defence, on either the matter of evidence or as regards the arguments of counsel, which, it is expected, will be directed principally to the question of the credi- bility of the witnesses or to the defence it can es- tablish for itself. Stokes was in Court, attended, as on the previous @ays of his trial. The proceedings yesterday were opened promptly by the recalling of the witness on examination at the adjournment of the Court on Monday. ©ROSS-EXAMINATION OF JOHN T, REDMOND RESUMED. John T. Redmond, recalled—I knew James Gill in the House of Detention; have played cards with him there; do not recollect of a conversation with Bim about the Stokes case. The witness was asked a number of questions by Mr. Tremain relating toan alleged arrangement perfected between the witnesses in the House of Detention, by which they were to swear away Btokes’ life—to all of wrich questions he replicd begatively. EVIDENCE OF MISS HALL. Miss Grace Ha'l, of Waterford, Conn., was the mext witness called for the people—I was in the city on the Sth and 6th of January last; was stopping at the Grand Central Hotel; remember hearing the report of a pistol between four and five o'clock in the alternoon of the 6th of January; I was on the Ofth floor, in my room, at the time I heard the re- port of the pistol; I went into the parlor, the third parlor, about five o'clock, Ishould judge; @ Mr. Dyer, an old gentleman, was sitting on a sofa near the entrance; I found a pistol on the end of the sofa farthest from where he was sitting; frst bad my attention attracted to the weapon by sec- ing the gaslight strike on it; I was examined on | the other trial; the pistol was pressed in between the back and the seat of the sofa; do not remember what particular portion of the weaponl saw, or what ey ee portion of it I took hold of. At this stage several attachments were issued to compel the attendance of a sumber of wit- esses. S. Frank Crockett was next sworn—Reside at the Grand Central Hotel; Lam clerk of the hotel, and was employed there in the same capacity on the 6th of January last; I heard two reports of a Reahing WANE SLO ae Baving in his hand a cane; I caught the expres. sion, ‘There's a man shot,” as tins party was com- img down stairs; after Stokes was arrested the boy Thomas Hart came round and said, “Colonel Fisk is shot, and that is the man who shot him,’ pointing to the prisoner. The witness went onto state the scene in the Jower hallway when Stokes was taken into cus- tody, and also corroborated the testimony of pre- ceding witnesses as to the identification of the | kat by Colonel Fisk prior to the death of the The witness had known Colonel Fisk for fifteen ears, Fisk having been in the habit of stopping at ‘he hotel of witness in Boston, when Fisk was in | the dry goods business; kuew the Morse family; Mr. Fisk did not pay their board; it was paid by the mother-in-law in her own check; the Morse family were at the hotel about three months; dur- ing that time I did not see Colonel Fisk visit them more than four or five times, To Mr. Tremain—Yes, I furnished the names of Witnesses to the prosecution; never calledon a witness by the name of Miss Turner; I might have said that Stokes must be convicted; don’t remem- ber; I know the parlor boy who testified on the Jast trial; I was not instrumental in getting him @ischarged because he swore that the pistol shown ‘Was hot ‘the’ pistol; he was discharged imme- @iately after the shooting by Mr. Powers; I might ve Bald to some of the boys that they had better ot tell What they knew, that if they did they Wight lose their situations. ‘0 bullets were shown the witness, and the ques- tion was asked if he could identify them as having been seen before; the bullets were originally simt- Jar, but one had the appearance of having struck something, and was fattened on its peint, Miss Grace Hall was asked if she could identify the pistol shown as the oue she found in the par- She said it looked’ like the same one, but she Could not swear to its identity. Peter Coughlin, sworn—' employed at the Grand Centra! Hotel on the 6tH of January ; it was 3 duty to make the fires in the rooms of tue ho- tel; was going in the cellar to get coal to feed the res in parlor 207, when I saw Stokes with his right band in his coat pocket; he was stanaing the Bead of the private staircase; I soon after heard the two reports, and heard Mr. Fisk groan and ask boay was going to hid assistance. This witness next went over the same ground as « the previous witnesses, without adding anything Bew to the statements already made. fie was ex. smined at the usual length, After Recess. The Court reassembled at ten minutes of two TESTIMONY OF MR. POWERS. Hi. L. Powers was next swor Wy residence was at the Grand Central Hotel; lam € Of the proprietors of that hotel; I know of none ofthe occurrences happening at the hotel on the 6th of January last; I was standing in the oftice, then I heard the report of the pistol and saw & man runving rapidly through the hall; some one sald, “There's 4 man shot,” aad pointed to the per- son coming down the stairs, and said, “That is the man who shot him;” I said,’ “stop him,” and I my bell tried to do s0; he passed tothe rear of the ui dit recognize the prisoner at the ar a8 =the = man 1° saw comin down the stairs; he was taken baci to the office and I asked him what he came there to make trouble for; he did not reply; I then went i—In January lat | 3 stairs and entered the room in which Colonel | 8 k Jay; I was there when the prisoner was Drought in; the officer said to Fisk, pointing to the prisoner, “is that the man? to which Fisk ro- ed, “Yes, that 1s the man who shot me, teke him way, one man can’t arrest him,’ to which 1 re. “Ob, | guess he can; as far asl know itokes was inimediately taken to the station bouse; I was given a pistol by a Mr. Crockett; I think i coyld recognize the pigtol if 1 saw it; I NEW YORK HERALD, WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 25, 1872.-W1TH SUPPLEMENT. Kept the pistol in yn in the office of the hovel und Turned i over to the late Commis- Byrnes and some other gen- stoner Smith, tain omen oo Witness was here shown a pistol and said to the best of his belief the pistol shown was the weapon that he gave to Capt he On cross-examination—! opened the Grand Cen- tral Hotel; I am the only pro; ‘tor; I was called as a witness on the former trial; 1 had not commu- nicated my testimony to the District Attorney be- tore Lapueared in Court; my memory has been pretty fresh ever since the affair took place; my examination on the first trial was very loose ; have stated more on this trial than on the first one; I was not asked on the former trial as to the conversation in the presence of Fisk; I was only asked a few questions about the light, &c.; I saw the accused when he was arrested; I did the prisoner say anyt! ma- terial; had my hand on the _ prisoner, but he did not say anyt! 3 the prisoner was not brought up stairs until five minutes alter I had ascended ; | think Mr. Crockett fare me the pistol; Tam not positive on that poiut; 1 received the pistol about five o'clock, and pre it up about seven; the shooting took place, I presume, about half-past four; Ihave had nothing to do with fur- Witnesses in this case; I don't know any- body by the name of Jerome Turner; I know the Morse family had a servant girl, but don’t know that I ever beard her name ¢ had @ room some- where, I don’t know where; {do not remember eying assigned the girl any particular room; the forse family left about four or five days after the shooting, 1 think; J don’t think that the girl alluded to was charged anything; I am not in the habit of accommodating ladies without charge; my attentions, in that respect, are not confined to ladies; many persons who were not able to pay were chai hothing; I know a Mr. Morgan ; don’t know a lawyer who hag been getting up this case by that name; I know @ lawyer con- nected with this case, a Mr. Townsend; lremem- ber having @ conversation last night in front of a telegraph ofice about this case; it was with Cap- tain Byrnes; don’t know that Mr. Morgan was present; as to a conversation last night with Mr. Crockett as to the conduct of the witnesses for the prosecution | don’t recollect. Re-direct—I was at my hotel all the evening last night; whatever conversation I had was in my own hotel; I think a Mr. Hendricks was present; a number Of persons were passing at the time; I had no reason to suspect the near vicinity of spies; wouldn't have cared if there had been, hy Mr. Townsend—What dves the gentleman mean a? Colonel Fellows—10u necdn’t answer that, sir; you’re not a schoolboy to be taken to task by counsel. Now state what you know about counsel for the defence being at the hotel, Mr. Tremain—I object, sir. Mr. Townsend—I’m willing to have the whole thing come out, a8 an imputation has been thrown upon me, Be Coury there has been no imputation cast that I can see. 3 A general squabble followed, in the midst of which Mr, Townsend arose and said he had never been in that hotel but twice in his life before this trial, and once since it commenced, Captain Thomas Byrnes was next placed on the stand:—I ama captain of the police; was at the Grand Central Hotel on the day of the shooting; [ arrived after the occurrence; J found Colonel Fisk lying in one of the parlors on the second floor; I received a pistol from Mr. Crockett; Mr. Powers Was not present; I recognize the pistol shown me ag the one I got, because 1 placed a mark upon it; 1 took it to the station house and kept it until the day of the inquest, when I gave it to Coroner Young; I think the inquest was held on the Thurs- day following the shooting; l returned immediately to the station house after receiving the prisoner; I had seen Patrick Hart and Thomas Hart at the station house, with others, alter the shooting; I had arrested them as witnesses; I held them and notified the Coroner; do not know what orders the Coroner had givenin relation to the prisoners; Mr. Powers went security for the wit- nesses and the Coroner discharged them; I rear- rested them after Coroner Young discharged them, asl thought they were important witnesses; they each, at the station house, made a statement of the et I did not reduce these statements to writing, Cross-examined—Thomas Hart told me of the whole occurren do not remember his haying said he saw Stokes throw away anything; I was first in Fisk’s room about twenty minutes after four P. M. on the 6th of January; I was there sev- eral times after that; I saw several physicians in Fisk’s room; I saw br. Tripler probing the wound in room 14; Dr. Fisher and several other g»ntle- men were there at the time: Fisk was kneeling down when they were probing him; Dr, Fisher was standing at the foot o1 the bed; I could not find Dr, Tripler last night to sub- ena him for this trial; I went to his residence, put they said he*was out of town; I recollect see- ing tue brother of the prisoner at the station house, but don’t know who was with him; I made Mr. Stokes, the brother of the prisoner, leave the back room of the station house when { found out who he wis; last night was the first time I had made an effort to subpoena Dr, Tripler. Coroner Nelson W, ‘oun ragatified ag follows:- am one of the coroners o/ the county of New York; I held the inquest on the body ot James Fisk, Jr.; I received a pistol from Captain Byrnes; I sealed the pistol uD, and gave it, with all the papers of the inquest, to the District Attorney; I am positive I could identify the pistol; the weapon shown me now is the one that [had in my possession before; I placed the balls given to me in the envelopes, as shown now. On cross-examination—I arrived a little after seven o'clock at the Grand Central Hotel; I heard of the shooting ata little after seven; 1 went to the hotel with Captain Byrnes and ascended to the room in which Coloncl Fisk was; I summoned an ante-mortem jury then and there; I don’t know whether young Morse was on that jury or not; I have no iniuutes of the names of that jury with me, Mr. Fellows found the minutes of the aute-mor- tem jury, and the witness locked over the papers and found the name of Edward C. Morse as one of ss—I recejved from Mr. Powers $1,500 in money belonging to Colonel Fisk, with a gold watch and chain, and other property; I told Mr. Powers to lock the property up in the safe, and that I would hold him personally responsibie for the effects; the property at that time I considered actually in my possession; 1 never had actual pos- session of the clothing, but I saw it at Colonel Fisk's house after the inauest; his house was in Twenty-third street; Mr. Comer, of the Erie ofmice, made ademand upon me, on behat of Mrs. Fisk, for the return of the jewelry and eifects at the Grand Central Hotel; I took the statements of the Harts and others at the station house and discharged them; I had those statements taken by a stenog- — a Mr. Veech, mm redirect—The reporter commenced taking notes at the inquest alter one or two questions had Marsh commenced taking the tes- wmection was made, and then Mr, fusion at times during the Inquest; some excite- ment also; there were personalities induiged in; the inquest continued two days, I think; the evi- dence was not written out until after the inquest was a ne that ‘To Mr. Tremain—Mr. Marsh is my deputy; I think nothing was done with his notes, Pt The witness looked over the written testimony taken at the inquest and said that he did not find Deputy Coroner Marsh’s notes among the ma: vitness—I think that Redmond was the first witness examined, Thomas Hart was the second; tue latter was examined on the first aay; the sten- i ce OF coun- at the request of the jury; there was noth- ing to prevent the stenographer taking down the testimony verbatiin; I have so many of these homicide cases that I have to bea memoranda. To Mr. Fellows—I represented the people on the occasion of the inquest; Mr. Algernon S. Sullivan came in during the proceedings; Messrs. John McKeon, Bartlett and a number of other distin- guished legal gentlemen were present for the prisoner. hee? | Powers sworn—I reside at the Grand Central Hotel; have resided there for the past two years; was there on the 6th of January, 1872; T assisted in removing the clothing from Mr. Fisk; Iam cousin to the proprietor of the house; Mr. Fisk had thrown off his outer coat. Witness was shown @ coat, but be could not identify it positively as the garment he had assist- ed in removing from Fisk. In continuation—As the elathing was removed it thrown on a chair; I think it was taken down Stairs afterwards; the clothing was @ very little stained with blood; | do not know who removed the clothing from the wound; Mr. Morse and some one else assisted me in taking the clothing from ; Lheard what was said alter Stokes the oMicer said to F Fisk replied, “Yes, that is the man," meaning the prisoner; I said, “Who is that man? and the de- ceased replied, “That is Stokes; I started up stairs from the office to ascertain who had been shot immediately after hearing the shots; I saw & man come dowa stairs idiy almost instantly aiter the shots were fired; I recognize the prisoner here present as that man. On cross-examination—There was a lady board- ing at the hotel, at the time of the shooting, by the pawe of Mrs. Benton; Doctors Fisher and Tripier ‘were attending Mr. Fisk after he had teen shot; the prisoner walked as he was coming down stairs; ae I started from the omce I saw the prisoner, but cannot say whether J passed him or not. Captain Byrnes recalled—After I received the pistol irom Mr. Crockett 1 showed it to several people in the hotel, Colonel Fellows said his object in asking the question was for the purpose of accounting lor a seeming hg between the statements of the witness and Mr. H. L. Powers, Witness—I showed the pistol to Mr. Powers. OMicer McCaden—I am attached to the ian u Roae, under Captain Byrnes; 1 was at the station ouse on Mercer street at the time of the shooting of Colopel Fisk; 1 was called to the Grand Central Hotel tu an oficial capacity; when I got to the main hall lsaw a man surrounded by a crowd who, it was said, had shot another; no person had him actually in custody; I searched him, but found no pistol; [took him up stairs to room 207 first; found Mr. Fisk was not in that room and took him to the apartment in which the deceased was; found Colonel Fisk on a sofa; I took Mr. Stokes right in front of the Colonel and sald, “Colonel, is this the man who shot you? tne decoased re. S “Yes,"’ and no moi I djdn’t wait any longer, but took Stokes straightway to the station house; Sergeant Chris was in. charge, and to him I made a siatement; Thad hold of the prisoner as I went up stairs. Cross-examined—I was not at the hotel at the Sube Of the shooting; I arrested Stokea near the 3 he did not say a word; I did not hear the timony of Thomas Mart; I'm sure Stokes did not make a remark denying the shooting in my presence ; I searched the prisoner in ‘would likely have a pistol, but I any. 716 Colonel Fellows—I have been on ice force for the last ten regs: when I speak of the arrest of the prisoner | allude to when I took him into custody; I don’t know, of course, what con- versation, if any, was had with the prisoner before I got there; I did consider it | duty to take the risoner away 28 soon as he been identified by Jolonel Fisk; there was es excitement at the be! ane Iwas anxious for the safe custody of the er, The Court was adjourned till Thursday morning, THE RING FRAUDS. Motion to Quash an Indictment Against Hugh Smith Granted —Interesting Opinion of Recorder Hackett. Yesterday, in the General Sessions, Recorder Hackett filed with the Clerk the subjoined decision grauting the motion to quash the indictment against Hugh Smith and others. It will be remembered that this motion was @rgued early iu the term, and that Mr. Peckham stated that if his Honor had any doubt in ref erence to the legal questions involved, the motion to quash might be granted and then other indict- ments could be prepared. RECORDER HACKETT’S DECISION. The indictment iu question was found February 10, 1872, at what Isstyled the extended November term of 1571. During the ten months following no action was taken upon it b; prosegution, nor were the defendants called onto plead. At the last November term of this ‘ourt the defendant, Hugh Smith, came on his tion and moved fo quash the Indictment. During the argi- Ment had upon the motion the Supreme Court (Justices Ingraham, Brady and Leonard concurring) decided in the case of the Feople vs. Greenthal that the November ly éxtefided into the subsequent months. Tam clearly bound by thelr deeiston, (It is true that this indictment was found In point of fact, after an act of the Legislature had sought to legalise the extension, but the minutes of the Grand Jury show that the proceed: ings had preliminary to the date at which the indictment Was brought info Court were within the scope of the de- cision of the Supreme Court, Itis not, therefore, ne- cessary for me to consider or decide the’ question Whe- ther any statute could impart legality to, an existing ile- gality, by whieh the rights of persount Uberty, were af- ected. ‘On this ground alone 1 must quash the Indict- ment. But besides this ground there are other reasons for the pol the own voli- quashing. The indictment is tramed as 4 conspirac: and the defendant Is charged with havin; mspired wit! five others. Itis admitted that the alleged conspiracy does not come within those conspiracies which are ex- prestly defined pnd limited in the revised statutes, put is ramed under chapter 29 of the session laws of 1853, ‘The revised statutes deciare that no conspiracies other than those therein mentioned could pin: nished criminally @ R. 8, 5ed., 9. But it isclatmed by the people that this subsequent statute of 1853 in ct creates a conspiracy to commit a gross cheat and fraud at common law. In point of Igw, however, this later statute creates no offence the mock auction’one. In the only reported case arising under this statute (Peo- plovs Ranney, 22 N.Y; Ht) that eminent jurist Justice somstock so dixtinctiy held (. 416). Tam clear that the conspiracy portions of the indictment should be rejected x surplusage, because of the limitation words of the Re- Fised Statutes above quoted, With those pro ‘islons some statute must expresgly create any newer conspiracies, This the statute of 1853 does not do. I have no doubt that the allegations set forth in the indictment against several other of the codefendants, when those alles tions are substantiated by evidence, will make outs cross cheat at common law; © vainly searched he pleading to find a siugle overt act alleged against the defendant, Smith, as done by him. Nothing tled among the elementary principles than that when You charge a man With cheating or defrauding that the Pleader must, in the indictment, set ont an intelligible story againal him such a story does appear connecting together several of the codefendants, but not the defend. ant, This indictment reads to me_as if the pleader had set out to connect the defendant, Smith. with the overt acts of the others, but had tailed properiy to imptead hi with them, and then had forgotten to strike out the de- fendant’s hame from the preliminary and summing up portions of the indictment, Even had the indictment een intended for consp! under sub- division 4 of the conspiracy section of the Re- d Statutes this difficulty would be increased, fs for doing a lawful ich class of conspiracies airged against a defend- this defendant has com- ant (Wharton, section 2,314), mitted any offence it 4s dee o he regretted that ju Mctional mistakes and. slovenly pleading should dela prosecutions, But my duty is (oo plain to be avoided; and indeed it ig better to condemn a faulty pleading in limine than after trial, because such a course saves trial and expense and allows the people to remedy the detects of one Indictment by preparing another and 4 better one. Tetan order be entered quashing the indictment as against the defendant, Hugh Smith, upon both the grounds I have stated, BUSINESS IN THE OTHER COURTS. SUPERIOR COURT—SPECIAL TERM. Issuing An Execution After Death With- out Notice to the Heirs, Before Judge Curtis, Oliver Johnson died in this city in 1852, leaving considerable real estate and no will, About a year before his death a judgment was recovered against him which became, as alleged, vested in Thomas Harkins, As he died without issue, it is claimed that his estate descended to William H. Beard. Leave was obtained from the Surrogate to issue exccution upon the judgment, and no notice of such application was given to the heirs, The Sheriff sold, under the execution, & number of up- town lots, which now are of great value, and the matter as it now stands involves the validity of the title of the purchasers. A motion was made in this | Court to set aside the execution and all proceed- ings thereon as irregular and void, Judge Curtis yesterday gave anelaborate opinion im the case. He denies the motion, but without costs and wit out prejudice to the right of the applicant to bring an action and obtain an adjudication of his costs. Appeal from a Verdict Against the Third Avenue Railroad Company. Some time since, as will be remembered, Thomas Hamilton obtained a verdict of $500 against the ‘Third Avenue Railroad Company on account of his ejectment from a car through not having a check after leaving another car at the depot, and refusing to repay his fare. Execution was served on this judgment and a motion made to stay proceedings in order to enable an appeal to be taken. ‘The General Term having affirmed the verdict in the lower court Jndge Curtis, before whom the case was brought, granted the motion, and so the case goes before the Court of Appeals, SUPREME COURT—CHAMBERS, The Dugan-Rittner Case. Before Judge Leonard. stamtave af which have been published in the Herat, was yesterday submitted to the Judge. The controversy is as to the cusiodianship of Lizzie Dugan, a gir) fourteen years old. It will be remembered that when the case was first brought before the Court Mr. Dugan assaulted Mr. Rittner, Mrs. Dugan and Mrs. Rittner after the parties left the court room. Mr. Rittner is said to be paralytic from the effects of the injuries he sustained and his life endan- gered, ‘The Judge promised to give ms decision as py the custody of the child within two or three jays. Decisions, Mitchell vs. Smith et al.—Let all the mortgaged premises be sold and the plaintii’s mortgage with costs, taxes and assessments be paid, the proceeds and the surplus be deposited to the ‘credit of the action with the American Trust Company. Frederick Stoltz vs, Emma Stoltz.—Cage referred back to referce, COLRT OF COMMON PLEAS—SPECIAL TESM. Decisions. By Judge Larremore. In the matter of the petition of James Morgan, ‘foreigner. Sig peered granted. Jonson vs. Vanderlip.—Motion granted, Borden vs. Gerson.—Motion denied. Costs to abide event. Pitts vs, Pitts,—Resett!ement of issues orderec, Doscher vs. Schwartz.—Order settled. Althof vs, Richards.—Reference ordered. ‘Tharir vs, Novas.—Injunction dented, Pitny vs. Sibly.—Preliminary objection overruled. By Judge Robinson. Christy vs, Sibly.—Findings filed, COURT OF GENERAL SESSIONS. A Charge of False Pretences Against a Clerk of a Civil Court Who Acted as Interpreter and “Stenographer’’—Ac- quidtal of the Accu Before Recorder Hackett. District Attorney Garvin and Assistant District Attorney Stewart conducted the business of the Court yesterday. Most of the day was occupied in the trial of an indictment for false pretences against Joseph Steinhart, the interpreter of the Seventh District Court, for receiving $2,467 75 from Comp- troller Connolly upon 4 warrant in favor of George B. Landsicy, for services as stenographer from May 6, 1870, to July Sl, 1871, he (Landsley) having as- figned the claim to Steinhart. William M. Kitchell, formerly Clerk of the Court, and a lawyer, Alexan- dey Lamont, a practising jawyer in that District Court, testified that no such person as Landsley ever api eared in that Court, Mr. Richard 8. Storrs proved that the receipt to the warrant was signed by Steinhart, and Kitchell identified the signature as being that of the de- fendant. For the defence it was shown by Justice McGuire that at the request of a politician namgg Wm. W. McCabe he appointed Landsley stenograjMer of the Court, but he never appeared to discharge the du- ties required by that officer, It was further shown that McCabe arranged with Steinhart, not only for him to “py tia the duties of tuterpreter, but also those of stenographer for his dummy Landsley, he (Steinhart) to receive a certain compensation which was Hot named. Steinhart testified that he thought it would be a good chance to make some- thing extra, and performed the duties of stenog- Tapher by taking the testimony upon trials in long- hand, Justices Quinn and Kane and three lawyers who in Justice McGuire’s Court testified hey saw Steinhart i and that he per- formed the duties of ‘‘s! her,’”? although he did not write shorthand sat Recorder Hackett, after listening to the argu- ment of counsel, cl the j that the evi- dence failed to estab! the fact that the accused mene any false representations to the Comp- roller. The jury rendered a verdict of not guilty. His ‘Honor intimated in the course of the trial that a gross fraud had evidently been perpetrated by sometees, and all the witnesses agreea in the ‘ iad hat the accused did not write short- and, Alleged Homicide in a Lunatic Asylum— The Prisoner Discharged. Mr. Howe moved for the discharge of Thomas Farrell, charged with the homicide of Horatio Sey- mour on the 12th of September, on the ground that the main witness for the people was dead, District Attorney Garvin confrmed the state- ment of the counsel, and further informed His Honor that if the witness were alive the evidence would be insufficient to procure a conviction, The offence occurred in 9 lunatic asylum, and the statements made by the witnesses before the Cor- oner would be unreliable evidence, from the fact that the parties were not in their right mind. He (the District Attorney) said he did not feel at lib- erty to enter a nolle Broseaut in the case, but would consent to the discharge of the defendant upon his own recognizance. 2 corder Hackett, in Sachaceing, Farrell, ob- served that it was to be regretted that the Grand Jury was not more careful in their deliberations previous to finding indictments for murder in the first degree; and that in bis (the Recorder's) ex- perience a majority of the crimes which the public prese treated as premeditated murder grew out of frays. He hoped that in the future the Grand Jury would be more careful in their investigations into complaints of this kind. (a Burglary. Thomas Reilly and John Brady pleaded gui'ty to an attempt at burglaryin the third degree, the allegation being that on the 28th of November they broke into the liquor store of Peter Callaghan and stole $154. They were each sent to the State Prison for two years aud six months. William Johnson, charged with breaking into the shoemaker shop of Hugh Donohue, 304 Seventh avenue, on the 6th instant, and stealing three pairs of boots, pleaded guilty to an attempt at ber ytd in the third degree. ‘o years and six months in ane pate Prison was the sentence imposed by the ourt. The Bogus Reporter Pleads Guilty. Henry 8, Bogart pleaded guilty to obtaining money by false pretences, On the 22d of November he represented to Rufus W. Andrews that he was a reporter of the World and had an account in the Second National Bank, and procured from Andrews $150 upon a check, which proved to be a forgery. The prisoner was remanded for sentence. Forgery. Manuel Cortez, against whom were two indict- ments for forgery in the third degree, pleaded guilty to one indictment for that offence, charging him with having, on the 10th of October, forged the following order :— New Yorx, Oct. 7, 1872. Howes & Macry, Bankers: — Pay to ihe order of Ratail ¥. Juan fitteen hundred dol- POLLAK & CO. His Honor sent iim to the State Prison for four years and six months, A Stabbing Case. George Redmond pleaded guilty to an assault with a dangerous weapon with intent to do bodily harm to Oliver Collan, by stabbing him in the back witha knife. As tne accused was first assaulted by the complainant, who has left the city, the Kecorder inflicted a comparatively mild punish- ment for him, viz., eighteen months’ imprisonment in the State Brison. Acquittals. William Craig, charged with stealing, on the 24th of November, $165 from the pocket of Timothy Sullivan, at his gin mill, in Baxter street, was ac- quitted. It seems that the accused was a young law student from Canada, and, getting on a spree, landed in Baxter street. Hannah Counors was also found not guilty of alleged complicity with a man who escaped in stealing $82 from David Harris, at a house in Bax- ter street. ‘The Court remained in session till a late hour in the afternoon, and adjourned till Thursday. *QUAT OF APPEALS. ALBANY, N, Y., Dec. 24, 1872. Decisions. The foilowing decisions have been handed down :— Judgments affirmed with costs—Bacon vs. New York Central and Hudson River Railroad Company ; Cock vs. Same; Wallace vs. Free; Hughes vs. Bi linghurst; People ex rel. City of Rochester v1 Briggs; City of Rochester vs. Briggs; Weeks vs. Love; Fitzhugh vs. Sackett. Judgments reversed, new trials granted, costs to abide events :—Culver vs. Western Union Telegraph Company; Carpenter vs. Blake; Rowley vs. Wood- rut, Judgments reat, See as to one penalty, and affirmed as to one penalty, &c.—Pool vs. New York Central and Hutson River Railroad Company ; Morris va. Same; Smith vs. Same. Order affirmed and judgment modified, &c.— Graham vs. Linden, Order affirmed, with costs—Erickson vs. Quinn. Appeal dismissed conditionally—Debbe vs. Debbe. ha granted and remittitur amended—Bulles ge. le denied with $10 costs—Aberdphy vs. night. Appeal from judgment dismissed without costs— Patten va, Stitt. Motion to dismiss appeal from order denied with $10 costs—Patten vs. Stitt. Motion to correct remittitur denied—People ex rel. Peterson vs. Dayton; People ex rel. Mills vs. Ba heir fotion denied without costs—Ellis vs, Albany City Insurance Company. an ppeal dismissed without costs—Coleman vs. ickson, The Court adjourned sine die, QUARREL BETWEEN DOCTORS. Its Results—Trouble and Extra Expense. On Monday alternoon Coroner Young received information from the Board of Health that Mrs. wrens . ranwe nf near the corner of Ninth avenne and “sé surecn had died on the 2ist inst. from “puerperal fever and unwarranted criminal neglect by previous medical attendant,” as certified to by Dr. John Vv. Bronson, of 159th street. Dr. Frothingham was first called tosee Mrs. Brady, and prescribed for her; but, owing to the multiplicity of business in MMs special line CA eden g he informed the hus- band that he could not attend to the cage, and recommended him tosecure the services of a reput- able physician at once. Dr. Bronson was next called, and attended Mrs. Brady till she died, atter which he gave the certificate in which Dr. Frothingham stands charged with criminal neglect. In anticipation that the certificate would be accepted by the Health Board the relatives ordered the funeral ceremonies for Monday after- noon, and no less than fifty or sixty carriages had been engaged for the benefit of the relatives ana friends of deceased, and were in waiting at the hour appointed; but, owing to the rejection of the certificate, the case;was referred to the Coroner for investigation, and before that official could reach the piace it was quite too late for the funeral. There really was nothing of a criminal nature con- nected with the death of Mrs. Brady; but, owing to the unprofessional and unwarrantable tilt be- tween the attending physicians, Mr. Brady was subjected to unnecessary expense and ‘delay in burying the remains of his wife. Dr. Bronson will be summoned to the City Hall for examination, which will tend to show upon what he bases his charge of criminal neglect against Dr. Frothingham. APATAL RUNAWAY ACOIDENT IN BROOKLYN Two Horses Attached to a Hack Dash into the River and Drown a Woman. A New York hack, driven by one William Gal- lagher and drawn by two horses, containing a fe- male passenger, went over the dock at the foot of Washington street, Brooklyn, and into the river shortly before one o'clock yesterday morning. The driver had been thrown from his seat at the corner of Washington strect and Myrtle avenue, and the horses, taking fright, rushed madly down the street, the woman screaming for help on the death-ride and Police Officer Kee rushing wildly but nly to check the affrighted anim: The horses, with the vehicl human freight, were soon strug. giing in the icy waters of the daar! river, Ina few moments several policemen were summoned to the scene of the disaster and did all in their power to rescue the woman and the horses, The vehicle, with the plunging animals, had floated twenty feet distant from the dock, when Sergeant Cain and two patroimen procured a rowboat, and, pushing their way through the ice, were soon by the wreck. Ropes were passed under the coach and it was righted, being upside down when they reached the spot. The doors of the coach & were then broken open and the of the woman, who was about forty “years ald and was richly attired, wearing © dia- mond ornaments, was taken out an to the York street station louse. The driver ree ea that he had been {mploved to drive the deceased, whose name was Mrs. Hattie Adams, from her resi: dence, 56 West Twelfth street, New York, in com- pany witha Brooklyn gentleman, from ler dwell- ing to Brooklyn. He declined to give the name of the individual whom Mrs. Adams was so anxious should reach home in safety. In the left stocking of deceased was found, at the station house, the sum of $209, She was a well known courtesan, and was conspicuous as @ constant attendant at the Prospect Park. Race Course, The coach and horses were owned by Tilton & Jamison, West Twenty-ninth street. Who estimate I $2,000. Wer loss at SINS OF THE SYNDICATE Boutwell’s Revelations of the Amer- fean Loan Transactions. WAYS AND MEANS OF RAISING MONEY So act cea The Ways and Means Committee Hearing Mr. Jay Cooke and Mr. Boutwell.- Uncle Sam in the European Pawn Office. How the United States Has to Pay Eleven Per Cent for Money. “OUR CREDIT THE BEST IN THE WORLD.” A Faint Promise of Future Vigilance on the Part of the Secretary’s Aids. peace SI NOP The Arrangement with the Bank of England. Wasurxcton, Dec. 24, 1872. The latest phase of the question of government loans 1s expressed in the following statement of Secretary Bout- well, recently given before the Committee of Ways and Means:— In the Spring, or February, 1871, the Secretary of the Treasury appointed, in this country and in Europe, @ large number of bankers as agents for the negotiation of the bonds authorized by the act of 1870—five per cent, four and a half and four per cent bonds. The national banks were also all included as agents. We offered, as I remember, a quarter of one per cent commission for ne- gotlating the bonds, We advertised largely in this coun- try and considerably in Europe. One house—Hope & Co., in Amsterdam—that I designated without any confer- ence with them, but because we destred to have thelr in- fluence, declined to offer the bonds, giving as a reason that the commission was inadequate, The amount of bonds taken in Europe under this offer was very small, scarcely anything beyoud the amount taken by American bankers. Witnout speaking with entire certainty, I do not think the whole amount sold in Europe exceed $2,0W,000. In this country about sixty million dollars were taken, chiefly by the banks. he ontire amount taken was about sixty-five million dollars. As a matter of fact, most of the persons desig- nated as agents in this country and In Europe seemed do little or nothing, and the result of the effort was VkRY UNSATISFACTORY so far as we Wére concerned, By the Ist of August the subscriptions had subsiantially Ceased. Very few offers Were made alter that date, About that period Mr. Cooke made a proposition to the department I'de not recollect the exact date—which was substantially that which was carried out. I think it was first made in England. Judge Richardson went over in the Summer with the bonds which had been subscribed tor in Europe, for the pur- pose of deliyeriiy them. I am not exactly sure whether he proposition was" first made to ‘him I think it was, and telegraphed to .me. Mr. & &, ooke now states ‘that it was» made here and tele- Lil ae! to England, which I think is the tact, tter conference and some modificatton of the original proposition. an agreement was reached, the sub- stance of which was, 25 recollect, that they were to subseribo at once for $10,000,000, to be delivered within the first month, {think they were to subscribe. for that nt within the month of september, and $5,000,000 month thereafter until April, with the privile eof taking what remained of the $200,000,000, whieh had been offered in the February, preceding. I think there re- mained in all about $135,000,000, and of this about ),000,000 were reserved a certain time for subscription in ‘this country. The agreement was that the banks should be allowed on all subscriptions made by or through them one-eighth of one per cent, and we agreed to deliver, I think, in Loudon and in all the principal capitals of Europe. ; ‘THOSE NEW BONDS were to bo held in the possession of officers of the Treas- ury until bonds that had been called in, or such bonds as we had agreed to ¢, were furnished in Europe in ex- change. In this agreement they were to notify us the Ist of September of any miscellaneous bonds they desired to furnish in exchange for the now bonds instead of the five-twenty bonds we should call in; and Mr. Cooke in- forms me that they did so notity me of between $15,000,000 and. $20,001,000, Which accords with my recollection, The second item of the subscription was this:—That we were to make up an account of all the expenses that had been incurred In the negotiation ot the first $65,090,000 of the $20,000,000 offered—that is, we were to make an account current against the $200,000.00 of expenses incurred, including advertising, printing, wraving and everything; to Keep an account of the ex- nse ineurred afterwards, including the delivery of the onds in Europe, and they were to have what remained of the one-half of one per cent authorized by law to be ting the loan on the market when the whole actually been disposed of. That was riptions were to be made through the nid whenever a subscription was made ate oF coin deposit for the amont of the subscription, the bonds being sold at par, and the bonds were, to he issued and held by: certificate of deposit, subject to the condition that these bonds should be given up whenever the banks presented UNITED STATES NOTES FOR EXCHANGE. To facilitate exchange these bonds were generally five- twenties, though in some instances we may have taken 8. The arrangement having been made, Mr. Cooke and these other gentlemen procured their subscription, reach- ing, as represented tome, the entire amount remaining ot the 009,000, Tlearned afterwa although it was not & matter that concerned me, that were a few millions which parties on the other side failed to take, and which Mr. Cooke took himself. Mr. JAY CooKe—The sum was aoout $5,000,002. The agnount, however, remaining was so small’ that we de- clared the subscription closed. Mr. Bourweni—We made a call the Ist of September for $100,00),000 of five-twenty bonds, giving the numbers ‘and series, and notifying the holders that interest would Cease at the expiration of ninety days, These bonds were transferred to the other side in safes containing from three to eight millionseach. They were generally, and Fgg pot know but unttormiy, tn ste! safes, with elther 0 OF shive locks. One set of keys was sent by mes- senger, to be delivered t Judge Richardson on the other side, ahd another set was carried by The subs done. uational banks, the national bank making it was to issue a certifi he inoxe HEIMON TH CHANGE OFTaE sures, he tae ations, an 1c ina. tions we DUROUS CAREVINK. fhe keys: They were lecked by other peisons and the combinations brought to me. The combinations were sent by mail, and Ttink, generally, by telegraph in cipher, to Judge Richardson, so as to prevent danger of thelr being opened on the way’ though. as I understood, they were stowed on the steamer in the cash room, ina position where they could not well be renched. ‘These books were delivered on the ather side by the clerk in charge to Judge Richard. son, and by him, from thine to time, to Jay Cooke & Co,, as they desired, upon the delivery of tive-twenty bonds OF miscellaneous bonds made up to. the limit they: had named. There was an agreement that the rate of ex- change should be reckoned at ninety-one, and it was 80 reckoned. I may state, however, that if we were going into a further negotiation I SHOULD WANT TO VARY THE ARRANGEMENT 4 little in this respect. alt, Maysanp—How did that correspond with the mar. et value Mr. Boutwait—It was considered to be par value, and as a matter of fact it was found to be Just a tair rate—that 1a, there was no loss on the part of the government. ° ir. MayNaRp—Please state how 91 for exchange was in fact par value. Mr. Bourwxtz—Exchange Is reckoned at about 9. That was the theory uyon which we proceeded, and 43 turned out well enough in that instance; but 1 should igh to take some further precaution in any other transaction. Mr. MaYNaRp—That is understood to be the difference of sterling value in exchange on that side. Mr. Hourws1— That is understood tobe the par value. The coin received, as I understand, was de- that was posited by Jay Cooke & Co. in the Bank of England. It aid not go into the hands of our agent at all but a certin- cate of deposit, correspeniing w! ie amount, was de- fivered tothe, Judge Richardson made wee AN ARRANGEMENT WITH THE RANK OF ENGLAND by which they were to receive these deposits. At first they objected to the arrangement, but finally concluded to accept. I considered at the time the contract to in- clude virtaally a responsibility on the part of the banks making tho subscription for these deposits, not- withstanding he money had gone into the custody of the Bank of England, and if the bonds deposited did not rea- ze enough to meet the coin deposited I wished that the banks should be responsible for the difference, Upan a careful examination of the contract, however, that point did not seem to be clearly covered, The theory was, that if there were any deticit the banks making saubserip: tion were bound to make the government good in any event. As I remarked, however, upon tl ff point, the agreement was not entitely clear, and on any new. ne. fouagon should wish to have that understanding dis. ne’ “0486 do not thin Wi about it. think the money wasentirely) "* “"Y Fisk SAFE IN THY BANK OF ENGLAND; but still that was a point I felt a littie disturbed about at one time. After the bonds of a miscellaneous character were all delivered the arrangement was thon that a call for the remaining amount should be made for fivetwenty bonds; that was the arrangement, and it was successfully carried out: The accounts have’ been carried through the Auditor's and eo ueieee offices, and there has been no discrepancy to the amouut of a cent in the trans PD ame was the date of the new issue of Mr. Boorwrt1—The bonds were all dated th - fast 1, The subscription was made the Ii tof Nepean: er.’ They, were dated the Ist of August because that was pay day. The interest was payable quarterly, and the st of August was one of the Fey, days. The interest from August to September was allowed to the government, 80 that the bonds began to run forthe benefit of the sub: ncribers tno let of prember, and they secounted for tho ue 0 ‘oupon to tha . caventence simply it date, That wasa matter of ¢ Cxaikwaxn—You received from them these bi whe United States, on which three months’ interest was yet to r. Bourwrtt—No ; we held these identical bonds curity for, the Stepostt, subject to, the right of the rl deposit other United States bond , change. Atthe end of three months we took 5 Ba THE BONDS THAT HAD BEEN CALLED, ee. ba is — yee the interest. y ax—Now, take a bond the intorest « is torun until the Ist’ of December, ‘They received the 8 80+ sub- interest on it up to t fae P to that time, and they gave that to you fr. Bourwett—They.gave that to nsin this way:—We lined five per cent bouds and took five-twenty bonds. ras for the a They dye-twenty bonds were held as collate ie ieee ations eens on per bonds which issuing and 0 THE BANKS HAD THE BENRY? OF THE INPERKST on both sets of bonds days. Mr, Buncusmp— Giving ‘hem eleven per cont for three Mr. Bourweti—Yes, sir. The Cuatkwan—That is'six per cent on one set of and five per cent on the other for the amount de, In other words, the government paid eleven per cent during the period when it should have pee five per or six ee cent, whichever the case might be? > Mr. Bourwzis—It Of course, five per, cent extra, cause the six per cent were outstanding, and we could not call them in until the expiration of the ninet ‘s’ notice; therefore, the benefit the transaction was one A quarter per cent. get pen one into hia arrangement otlate these bonds, w! ing dot ‘Did he pay coin and take the the banks subscribing for them fur- 1 took the new ones in exchange, faking one quarter per cent as commission. We did nob caitlin any bonds. We TOOK THEM JUST AS THEY BROUGHT THEM, Mr. Burcuanp—You gave them five per cent bonds in exchange for six percent, and allowed them one quarter of one per cent issiont Mi so far as the $68,000,000 were con- cern at was all the cost, in way of commission, that tha Treasury had in the negotiation. The Cuaitax—Well, in the process they did not pay ‘any gold at all into the Treasary? r, Bourwsti—The banks did not, I think, except in & few cases, perhaps; there was some gold paid in by priv ‘vate parties, but The © Ae Smet was Taticann wea MAIRMAN—The process, as I widerstanc {eu negotiated the $05,000,000 tras ke bro Mr. The putty subscrit e pa subseri bondst nished UT W RLL—Y that the ban! five-twenty six per cent bonds and gave them to you in nge for the new bonds at one and a quarter of one poR cent preminm to them. Mr. Bourwe..—That was the exact basis on which tag transaction rested. There was ‘A FRELING OF PATRIOTISN " men connected with’ as @ matter ot the time being by whieh animaied our people duri these gentlemen was similar to tha: ing the war, A many tg ank officers engaged in this transaction im that ‘Hie Cisinvan—As a matter of fact, In addition to the one-half of one per cent interest authorized by law to be aid in the negotiation ofthe $20,000,000 when these ne: nds were delivered to the parties subscribing, you pal them interest from the first of September, when the sub- scription was made, until the end of the’ three months, and also allowed them interest on the bonds returned you tor cancellation for the same period ? Bourwet—That was THE EFFECT OF THE TRANSACTION. Mr. Burcnarp—I understand that they had the privi- lege of exchanging these bonds prior to the expiration the three months; in other words, you were to Gelivel five per cent bonds immediately upon the payment.of the amines in coln or the delivery of five-twenty bonds im exchange * Mr, Bootwxi.—Five-twenty bonds were subscribed for. five per cent bonds, at the pleasure of the subscriber, gar ing the ninety days, As far as cash was concerned they pay much cash until the very last mo- ment, under the agreement. They were permitted ta withdraw five per cent bonds which were put up As s6- curity for the certificates of deposit at any time on pay- feyeee gt coin or on the presentation of five-twenty bonds exchange. Nf. ihunetran>—Then you engaged, with the banks that their certificates of deposit should run ninety days? Mr. Bourweut—Yes, we agreed that we Would not call on the banks until the end of ninety days, ang that they: might leave the bonds subscribed for by them Hssve or they might withdraw them and deposit other United: States bonds assecurity. We were to call tor the deposit at the end of ninety days—that is, when the money woul be needed to redeem the five-twenty bonds called in if they did not furnish five-twenty bonds in exchange. ‘The CuatRxan—You have now stated to the committee what has been done, Will you please 8 ‘ WHAT 18 TO BE DONE IN THE a? Mr. Bourweti—The proposition before me isa verbal one, made by Jay Cooke, or by his brother, Governor. Cooke; perhaps both have spoken to me aboitt the mat- ter. A’ I understand thenf, they do not propose, to. change the arrangement in any way. Their proposition is to go on precisely as they went before. That is th fime T Haye intimated in thelr presence, o° to any the particulars as to which I should desire to have: the conti oditied. The Cuairmax—The proposition is, as I understand it,, to take $300,000,000 of five per cent’ bonds on the same terms. Mr. Boutwett—That is the proposition. Tt 1s perhai roper for me to state that Mr. Cooke informed ine thi the iouschilas Hage reed to gaanto the negotiation tostrengthen heir influence, Horcwarp-Do I understand the arrangement to Include no other bonds than those bearing five per cent. interest? Mr. Sovrwet.—Not the specific arrangement. I under~ stand that they have an idea that when they have dis- owed of these five per cents they can fo on and dione: of the four and a half per cents in the same way. The Cuarrmax—Is there any modification of the law. that you would suggest to the committee as desirable to make to enable you better to carry out the proposed ar-- Tangement t MR, BOUTWELL—I THINK NOT, The moilifications of the arrangement that have o¢- curred to me as expedient are these :—First, that if at: the end of ninety days the bonds were not disposed of or exchanged at a rate of exchange to save the government from loss, the loss should fall upon the gentlemen en- greed in the negotiation and not upon the government. have alread; stated — that such was mj first impression in regard to the former contract. but that I found it was not clear upon that point, though, with the coin deposited in the Bank of Eng! it would probably be fe as any arrangement could: well pakes5 ye for the security of the gover should desire the contract to include a prove case of a low in any way the bank making the subscri tion should be responsible for it Ido not know that it very material, but this occurred to me as a Cee Mr. Ronerts.—You stated that the subscriptions made. in Sey emiuee ‘were adjusted to the first of that month, ‘Was the same course pursued for subscriptions made im October and subsequent monthet Mr. Bourwsit—Yes, we adjusted the intcrest in the same way. The Criatrwax—You mean to say that the entire allow- ance of interest was only for three months ? Mr. Bourwrui—As I understand it there was no depart- ure from thitt m any particular. As some of the banks made a few subscriptions outside, not to @ very large amount, we had ‘TA RIGHT TO CALT NDS at the end of ninet ay notice ; but inasmuch as some of the bonds we called ‘did not come in, having no use ourselves for the money, we allowed It to remain on de- posit in the banks, in some instances, for a longer. period. t involved no loss (o the government, and this occurred only while we were waiting for the bonds which had been called to come in. this arrangement with Mr. ‘The Cnairwax—As far Cooke is concerned you have never allowed the bonds to than three months? remain on interest in their favor for longer Mr. Bovrwett—That fs as I understand ; the settlements have always been made upon that basis. Mr. Borcuarp—And in the cases where you have al- lowed the money to remain on deposit longer than three months the six per cent interest ceased? Mr. Boutwett—Yes, sir; the government was no loser, The Interest on the bonds ceased at the the expir f the ninety days’ notice. If they were presente: December, a# a large portion of them were, five bonds were given in exchange. As a matter of fact I be- eve a large amount, about fifteen million dollars, ree mained out for some time, and I think all the bonds called have not yet come in. I think an exact computation will show thai the reduction of interest to the Ist of last July is sufficient in itself to cover the entire cost of this nego- tiation, including the payment of five per cent and six per centon the two classes of bonds dui the same period of ninety days. In other words, T thin’ THY COST OF TRANSFERRING TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS #ix per cent bonds into five per cents had becn met on the Ist of July by the Interest saved, and that from that time forward we pay five per cent instead of six. The amount saved in the reduction of interest up to the Ist of July covers both the matter ‘of interest and expense, Kenr—Let me ask you one question as a matter of explanation. You have exchanged six per cent bonds for five per cent bonds. Now, if the cost of the negot rt faet, it'did. ‘The. feeling ae did not, in fact 5 FOR 20) Pes vant the sale, tion was one per cent, woul Itnot tike the new bonds just one year to save the cost of that one per cent? Mr, Bourweii—It would in the same ‘amount, but you will recollect that $65,000,000 was disposed of earlier, and most of it at a cost not execeding one-quarter of one per en Mr. Kerr—That makes no difference, however, since that one per cent was spent in the subsequent négotian jon. Mr. Boutwet1—That ts true; but the earlier date of the bonds, you will see, makes the difference then made; the bonds were not paid until long atter the interest consed upon thei Mr. Ke -You spoke awhile ago of the additional ex- pense, on account of this nineiy days’ interest, being one and a quarter per cent: was it not one and a half per cent? Is it not Proper that we should consider the addi. tional expense to be THE INTEREST ON THE OLD SIX PER CENT BONDS for three months, rather than on the five per cent new bonds, because you had sold the new and therefore had no right to pay interest on the old ? Mr. Bourwett—The law required us to pay interest om the old bonds until the expiration ot the ninety days’ no tice. We could not a Mr. Kerr—That wi Mr. Bourwxti—The Notice before we can stop intercst onaey, ing; and, therefore, my opinion is that the proper of considering the diflerence ts to. put the Interest for these ninety days on the new bonds as additional. Mr. Kerr—You wiill scarcely hold that the law con. templated - THE PAYMENT OF INTEREST FOR NINETY DAYS be 7 upon old and ad ? the 1 ae d ir, BourwRLI—Considering the law in its diffe provisions, including the provision by which the nas tonal banks are made depositories of any public money, except receipts from customs, and the Jaw allowing Treasury to stop interest upon outstanding bonds on! after ninety days’ notice, and the condition that we h the right to receive subscriptions from the banks { bonds to allow the Proceeds of these subscriptions to ree main in the banks until the expiration of the ninety day: Tregard it clearly within the law. I have no dot oie: Kena—T do not desire to go Into nt ir. Kerr—I do ni ire to go into any argume upon the eubject, but simply to ask what ‘your convtruce tion of the law of 1870 is. Whether it gives you the rig! ot giving ninety days’ notice for the redemption of ol bonds and at the samo time to sell new bonds and pay. interest on both for ninety days? : Mr. Routwett—I have no doubt about that. A practical examhple of a i TRE MODE OF DOING BUSTNRSS ; will show the impossibility o° avoiding it. If five cent bonds were offered: to-day and we should receivd into the Treasury (ogg ord of coin for $10,000 of fy@. per cent bonds the ‘interest ‘would begin txt ately upon the five per cent bonds. The government would have the coin, but it would have no power to to} interest on the six per cent bonds to be re jeemed. wit this coin until the expiration of ninety days. The gov- ernment would, therecore, as you will see be compelied to pay interest upon both’ sets of. bonds durin inety days, | Under the existing law the Secretary of the Treas. ury has no means by which he ci un these bonds excent by paying double interest—by paying interest on interest on the Hx per is the five per cent and by payiny cent, Dontis during the Mikes diya do not think wi Possible to construe the law in ai Mr. Kerr—Then the law, wheat yt poi dy the negotiations to one-half of iT Way. ited the entire ex. one per centyreally ONE AND ONE-HALF PRR CENT? Mr. Bourwrit—The limitation of one-| Cent, suppose, was intended to cover th of the work in transferring the bonds. an ¥ou srould constras all parts of the law. yout no! Iam endeavoring simply to ascer. If of one fctiial expense. interpretation of the law. Ask him whether he havany. means of stating Waeute committee What were the ratos of exchange “hetwees this country and Great Britam during thet bonds were being negotiated. 7 Bn Mr. Hourwati—E have not at present. F. Kenk—You stated, however, from re THE GOVERNMENT LOST Torning: eoton that. by this arrangement, nal’ Boury EE lle joat nothing. jowever, disgu! vension at uk . Byildeate ag to who. ear the loss; but it turned T do not, Mr, Kena—You say that these subscriptions were mado CONTINUED ON NINTH PAGE.