Evening Star Newspaper, January 10, 1935, Page 4

“Jafsie” Resists Reilly’s Attempts to Break Down Identification of Hauptmann By the Associated Press. FLEMINGTON, N. J., January 10.— The cross examination duel between Dr. John F. “Jafsie” Condon and Chief Defense Counsel Edward J. Reilly took up today where it left off, as court convened at 10:04 for another day of Hauptmann's mur- der trial. The educator from the Brorx was back in the witness chair and the defense launched its thrusts at his story cf his role in the Lindbergh ransom negotiations. Hauptmann was the first principal of the court drama to appear. His face seemed even paler than usual. There was a drawn, tired look on his countenance as if he had not slept well. When the former German Army machine gunner arrived in court a full 15 minutes before Justice Tren- chard took the bench, the room was already well filled and more specta- tors were constantly arriving. A steady chatter of conversation made a sibilant buzz as photographers took the regular caily pictures of the Jury. Mrs. Hauptmann Confers With Husband. | Mrs. Hauptmann came in a few| minutes before the trial resumed and | held her regular mornig conversa- tion with the prisoner. It was briefer than usual, however, for neither | seemed in the mood for a lengthy | talk | Reilly with his legal associates, C.} Lloyd Fisher, Frederick A. Pope nnd‘ Egbert Rosecrans, were conferring at the defense table as the State legal | staff. headed by Attorney General David T. Wilentz arrived. ) A moment later Jafsie, accompanied by Al Reich, Col. Charles A. Lindbergh | and Col. H. Norman Schwarzkopf. entered. . Col. Henry Brekcinridge. Lindbergh's | friend and legal adviser, was with the | group. | Condon today wore the same sober, | baggy black suit, the same celluloid collar, the same heavy gold watch chain and fob. He had changed his | customary red knitted tie for a fine dark one. Reilly Suddenly Switches Questioning. Jafsie bowed low and politely to! Wilentz when the attorney general i told him to resume the witness stand. | He looked kindly at the jurors. Reilly opened up. i Q. 1 thing, doctor, when we ad-| Journed yesterday we were discussing | a note found under a rock. A. Where? | For some reason Reilly did not im- mediately pursue this question after receiving that answer. but switched | instead to the ransom note which led to Condon's Woodlawn Cemetery tryst with John. “I picked that up under the rock,” he caid when asked to identify an- other note found under a stone in front of a deserted Jerome avenue hot-dog stand It did not bear the kidnap symbol. he acknowledged Hunts for various ransom note ex- hibits caused frequent little delays in the testimony. Dr. Condon began to describe his trip to the point beyond the Jerome avenue subway station, where he found the ransom note under a boulder. “Well,” the hoary-headed savant began, “I asked Mr. Alfred J. Reich | 1f he wanted to drive there with me. Q. Where did you stop? A. In front of the frankfurter stand | described in the letter with smybols. Q. How far did you go beyond the Jerome avenue station? A. One hundred to 150 feet. Q. What time of night was that? A. From a quarter of eight to 8:30. Asks Reilly to Stick To Points of the Compass. Reilly asked in what du'ection—le{l: or right—the subway was in relation to the hot dog stand. “Will you stick to the points of the compass? I know that better. It (the station) was in a scutherly direction.” Condon then had Reilly swing his left hand in a wide circle, saying, “There, there, whoa,~ when the de- fense chief’s arm was pointing in the correct direction. Q. How long did you stand in front of the frankfurter stand before some- thing happened? A. Something did happen. Q. Did you see any one around there? A. I saw in this southerly direc- tion—I saw an auto and it seemed some one was in it. Reilly asked how many persons he noticed in the car “I saw only one,” said Jafsie, adding the man in the car had his head out | : of the window. Jafsie also related “there was another auto with a canvas cover, a country auto, I would say,” which was parked nearby. Q. Did you take their license num- bers? A. No, sir. Q. I thought you were investigating carefully? A. The automobile didn't affect me at all. I was there to get the letter and I got it. Top of Cemetery ‘Wall Had Spikes on It. Jafsie said that he did not cross the street at that time, but got into the automobile. Q. The top of that cemetery wall is not very safe, is it? A. No, it's pretty dangerous. “There are spikes sticking out of | the top of the cemetery wall,” Condon added. Reilly asked if the venerable doctor had seen guards about the cemetery. “Yes, I saw one near 233d street in- side the gate,” he said. Q. At that time? A. A little later. Q. Where was the guard when this man was coming up over the fence? A. About 30 feet away, near a tree. Q. There was nothing between this guard and the man climbing? A. There was; there were some bushes which ":ave since been re- moved. 3 Q. Did the guard give any alarm? A. No alarm. Heard Noise as He Talked to “John.” “While talking to him (John) I heard a noise,” Dr. Condon said. Q. Did you see the guard? A. Yes. Q. Describe him. A. He was real—of German extrac- tion, I mean, rather stout; I would call him a heavyweight. Q. It's rather unusual, is it not, for & man to be climbing out of the ceme- tery at night? A. I don’t think so. Q. Did you ever climb out of & graveyard at night, doctor? A. I've never been in one at night. The quick sally provoked a gale of laughter from the crowded room and Justice Trenchard repeated his grave warning against such demonstrations. scaled the cemetery fence and fled toward Van Cortlandt Park. Q. Did he run fast? A. Yes. I would call it the step of a distance runner. Q. How far did the man run before you caught up with him? A. Almost 100 yards. Q. You caught hold of him? Escorted Fleeing Man Back to Shack. A. Yes, 1 took him by the left arm and escorted him back to a shack. Q. Where was Al Reich then? A. In the car. Q. And I believe you said that as you were sitting there you heard a cough? A. Yes. Q. A hard cough? A. No. Q. A soft cough? A. No. Q. Did the cough appear to come from his lungs? A. Yes sir, that's it Q. And you suggested that he take something for the cough? A. No, I said I'd go to a drug store and get him some medicine. Q. You'd go to the drug store and get medicine while he waited for you? A. No, he weuld have gone along We didn’t go, however. Q What would you get for cough? Dr. Condon mentioned several remedies which he employed in train- ing athletes. his Jafsie Refuses To Don Brown Felt Hat. “Hew long were you sitting there?” asked Reilly, after Jafsie related how he sat and talked with “John” in the park. “About an hour and 10 minutes.” Q. And he coughed only once? A. Yes, once. Reilly then directed Jafsie to demon+ strate how “John” had his coat collar up to his chin, and the doctor obliging- ly showed the jury how “John"” hunched down with his coat collar turned up. He balked, however, when Reilly wanted him to don a brown felt hat to complete the picture. Q. Will this hat fit you? A I wouldn't put it on, but I can tell you (looking at the hatband). Q. Have you a soft hat with you today? A. Ha, I wear a derby. A slight titter broke the attentive quiet of the spectators. Reilly Gets Lesson In Correct English. Jafsie at this particular part of the testimony gave Reilly a little English lesson, correcting his question so it would be grammatical. Reilly turned the questioning back to John Q. How many times did he say he was a Scandinavian? A. Once. Q. Did you ever say the man you talked to had a scar on his face? A. No. I did not see a scar. Q. Who left first? A 1did. Jafsie then narrated how he walked from the park to the car nearby | where Reich, his companion and body- zuard waited. ‘There was very little banter during Reilly’s cross-examination in the morning. Reilly went to work on the old educator, his jaw set and with no trace of the humor that has marked so much of his cross-examination. “Jafsie” Is Grim, But Not Dramatic. “Jafsie,” too, was grim but not so dramatic as yesterday. He was pretty much an old, hard- headed, but sentimental school teacher who had inadvertently been mixed up in a mystery drama. It was some time before the obliging Reilly put out his arm in traffic cop fashion and turned, under Jafsie’s direction, until he touched the point of the compass that the doctor de- sired. That broke the ice. There was less strain between counsel and witness. Condon said that Reich drove him home after the Woodlawn Cemetery episode. Q. Do you know what this is? A. Yes, that is the envelope—the package—in which the sleeping suit was mailed to me. Q. Who actually received it? A. 1 did. Q. Where did it come from? A. In the mail. Q. Is that the first communication you received? A. Where? Q. In the mail? A You mean in my life. Not the first. Condon Unable to Identify Postmark. “What station did that come from?” Reilly asked, motioning to Condon to ook at the postmark on the envelope. Long and earnestly Jafsie peered at the canceled stamps and finally con- fessed, “The stamps are so blurred I cannot see.” Q. Two notes came in the package? A. The two notes were wrapped in- side the sleeping suit. Q. What did you do with the notes? A. I took them out of the sleeping suit and read them. One was ad- dressed to Col. Lindbergh and one to me. I sent for Col. Lindbergh to come up and see if the article I received was his baby’s sleeping suit. There was another delay as counsel hunted for a ransom note exhibit, and Justice Trenchard, looking almost as much like Jafsie as Jafsie himself, took a hand in examining the witness. He asked the doctor to place the date the sleeping suit was received. No, sir. Parcel Received on St. Patrick’s Day. Jafsie said he placed the date on or about March 17 (St. Patrick’s day) nl;ecnuse that's a great day in my 0. He described the receipt of the suit. “When you opened the package contatning the sleeping suit, you dis- covered a letter or two,” asked the court. “Two; yes, two.” After that interlude Reilly returned to che attack. . Ever buy one of thes sults, doctor? e A. Never. Q. A Q. When your children were grow- ing up, did you buy any of these? A. That’s the woman’s part of the household. Q. Was the sleeping suit wra) with any special kind of cord? e A. 1 don't remember. Condon told the defense counsel tnat he had surrendered all his ran- som evidence; the notes, the letters, the sleeping suit; “everything” to the police. Reilly produced another letter dated March 19. Condon examined it care- fully for several minutes and looked up to say: “Yes sir, I received that letter.” He said that on the day he received the letter he had consulted with Col. Breckinridge. Didn't need them. :ever bought any? . Rellly returned to the man who Reilly then brought out still an- % No. 1—Dr. John F. Condon ap- pears fresh and smiling after hours of direct and cross-examination at the Hauptmann trial. Photo taken yesterday as “Jafsie” left court room. No. 2—Spectators jamming the exit of the court house, making it almost impossible for those leaving for their lunch to reach the street The huge crowd overwhelmed State troopers trying to get out. No. 3—Bruno R. Hauptmann leaving the court room after hearing “Jafsie” accuse him of being the “John” who accepted $50.000 ransom money. No. 4—Hugh McQuillen, head of the intelligence unit of the internal revenue office in New York, shown in the crowded court room. His official interest lies in the income tax aspects of the ransom deal, which the State charges Haupt- mann made after killing the Lind- bergh baby. No. 5—Mrs. Ralph Hacker, daughter of Dr. Condon, as she entered court to hear her father's testimony. No. 6—These women found one way to be comfortable while wait- ing to be admitted to the court room. They brought their own chairs. —A. P. Photos. other of the State’s ransom docu- ments, and, as before, Dr. Condon looked at it long and intently, turn- ing it over and over. This note was postmarked April 1. Jafsie had inspected it several times 1 before, but he took out his glasses and read it as if he were doing it for the first time. Q. Did you acquaint Col. Lind- | bergh of the contents of the note? A. No. Sought the Aid Ot Col. Breckinridge. Q. No? A. No. I asked Col. Breckinridge to help in this matter. Breckinridge was staying at the Condon home, Jafsie volunteered. The note directed Jafsie to have the ransom money ready for payment the following night, April 2. Q. Then on Saturday the money came to you? A. Yes, on April 2. Q. How many people in your group | knew it? A. What do you mean by group? Q. You, Col. Lindbergh, Col. Breck- inridge? A. The three of us. “The three of us knew it,” Condon repeated. Q. Al Reich didn’t know it? A. You'll have to ask him about that. I didn’t tell him. I don't tell my business to any one. Q. Who made the box (in which the money was placed)? A. I planned the making of the xX. Q. Didn't those who wrote the ransom notes suggest the box? A. Yes. Q. Then they planned it? A. They suggested it. “Jafsie” Fumbles Over Maker of Box. “Who made the box?” Reilly re- peated. “Jafsie,” heretofore never at a loss for an answer, fumbled. Reilly almost leaped at him. Q. Who made the box? A. I can’t remember the name. A woodworker on Webster avenue near 190th street. I'd recall his name if it were mentioned. “You had a box made” shouted Reilly, “and you don't know who made e Wilentz popped up to object to Reilly’s manner. “Don’t shout, don’t shout” said Jafsie. “I can hear. I'm not deaf. I can hear every syllable you utter if you use your lips. Don't shout.” Reilly wanted to know who In- structed him to have the box built. Q. Who were the orders from, from the chief? A. No. Col. Breckinridge. 1t cost $3.25 and was built according to his own plans, he went on, because he wanted to be able to recognize it if he ever saw it again. There were five layers of wood in the box to make it distinctive, Jafsie related. Recess of five minutes was taken at 11:20 a.m. at Wilentz’ request. Reilly Is Requested To Speak Better English. Jafsie did not seem to have all his flashing fire of yesterday in that first hour and a half of cross-examination, but he appeared as assured as ever as he returned to the stand when the session resumed. He again inspected the jury, nodding his gray head as his eyes went from face to face. Reilly took up the story of Col. Lindbergh’s futile airplane trip to Gay Head in search for the “boad Nelly,” on which the kidnap note said the baby was held. “You and I have a great difference in English, haven't we?” Reilly de- manded testily when Jafsie told him a question wasn't good English. “No, it’s the way you use it,” said Jafsie. » i A “question abowt how good the x Lindbergh and Col. £ :\'lsibihty was for the plene flight caused the little interchange. Condon requested: “Will you please speak better Eng- lish?" It was a demand that caused the court to rock with laughter yes- terday. Today the court did not laugh. | There was only Reilly’s curt, whip- like, | “Do you want me to' talk baby talk? I cen't talk baby talk, doctor.” Describes Search Of Waters Near Gay Head. Bit by bit Reilly led Jafsie through | & detailed description of that search of the waters near Gay Head, Cutty- hunk and Woods Hole, Mass. The plane loaded at Hicksville at about 6:30 p.m. that day, Sunday, April 3, Jafsie said. Q. Did you ever go out on a plane after that in connection with this case? A. No. Q. There were some insertions of advertisements after that? A. Oh, yes. Q. You never received any ransom notes after that, the payment of the ransom. A. No, not with the signature. Jafsie said he had received “lots” of notes after that, but none with the signature carried by all the 14 “ran- | som” notes. | Denies Conference | At City Island Shack. Reilly turned his probing to Con- don’s little shack on City Island. Q. Was there any conference at quently. A. No. Did you visit City Island? When? On April 10. I can't recall. Q. You went to City Island on week ends? A. Yes, sir, 1 did. Q. With whom did you talk on City Island? A. With my neighbors * * * people I have known 35 years. Q. Did you ever tell your neigh- bors on City Island that you believed the baby was kidnaped by a gang? A. I can't recali now. Q. Did you tell anybody you were the “Jafsie” of the ad? A. Yes, everybody. Q. And you told all your neighbors you were “Jafsie.” A. All I met. Q. What were the names of the neighbors you told. A. I can't remember. You give me the names and I'll tell you if I told them or not. Told Neighbors He Was “Jafsie” in Case. Reilly had him name some of his | neighbors on City Island, ticking them off on his finger tips. | Q. In your corversations with these | people, did you tell them you were | Jafsie? | A. Yes. Q. You've been talking about this | case ever since to any one who would talk to you? A. Yes. Q. Do you remember everything you ever said? A. No. I don't think it's possible. Q. You never made any record of your conversations with reference to the case? A. No. Q. Did you ever say a woman took part in the kidnaping? A. No. The court, including the garrulous “Jafsie,” was silent as Reilly read three typewritten pages to himself. It was the first time since the opening of the trial that the defense lawyer referred to notes. Denies He Stated He Knew Abductors. Q. Do you remember telling news- paper men in the office of Attorney McLaughlin in the Bronx that you knew the abductors? “Jafsie” stroked his mustache and pondered for some seconds. he said: “McLaughlin’s office? The Bronx, May 15, 1932? I don't recollect.” Q. Were you In that office about that time? A. Yes. I believe I was: QA? And did you talk with newspaper men' . 2 | your shack at City Island subse- | A. Before or after the transaction? “On May 15, 1932?" Reilly asked | tartly. | “Yes. I believe I did.” | Q Did you teli them you knew the abductors? A. On May 15? my recollection Reilly then shifted his line of at- | tack. ! Q. Did you ever go out in a boat in connection with this case? Blind- folded? A. On a boat, yes. folded. Condon Quizzed | Concerning Boat Trips. I did not. Not to But not blind- | Mass,, ‘with & Samuel Leon gnd Leon's | friend. 1‘ Q. Did you ever stand on the deck of a boat in which you believed the baby was hidden below the decks? A. No. Reilly then swung to trips Condon | made to Froggs Neck in his rowboat | in connection with the case. On one such trip he described how | he saw a boat on which a man named | “Coal Barge John” and another per- son were visible. Q. You went out to that boat be- | lieving those men were the kidnapers? | A. No. | Reilly interjected a new note in the case when he demanded Condon state whether or not he had ever said “the | child’s body was brought back to the spot where it was found.” He was trying to establish Condon | had told that to a “Marcus Griffin | | of the New York Inquirer” in New | York. | Jafsie said he had no memory of | the incident. / Denies He Asked | Pictures of Hauptmann. | Reilly changed his course to inquire if after Hauptmann's arrest he asked | a detective for pictures of Hauptmann | so he might study them, requesting the detective to tell no one of giving | him the photos. Condon made indignant denial of | this. | QI want the exact date of the | | month when you saw Hauptmann in the Bronx last August. A. I don't remember. Q. You mean to say you didn't note | the date? A. No. Q. What was the name of the driver? A. I don't know. Q. What was the number of the bus? A. I don't know. Q. Did you call out chauffeur, “get that man?” A. No; it was none of my business. | Q. Is it your sworn testimony, then, that you made no effort to capture the man to whom you say you gave $50,000, the man who double-crossed you on the ransom? A. I didn’t say that. Did Not Ask Driver To Run Man Down. Q. You didn’t shout to the driver to run him down? A. No, it would be impossible to do that, There was so much traffic. Reilly suddenly asked Jafsie “do you recall a detective investigator by the name of Val O'Farrell.” “Never saw him. Died, I believe.” Rellly showed him a picture of OFarrell. “Never saw him in my life.” Q. He's dead, of course. A. Yes, but it's the truth just the same. Reilly asked if the witness remem- bered going to the Windsor Theater with Al Reich, his companion. “I don't recollect it,” the Bronx pedant replied. Q. Did you ever know Mrs. Day? A. No, sir. Jafsie Seems Tired Under Cross-Examination. Q. Do you know Capt. Bernard Eels? A. The name Capt. Eels is familiar. I don’t remember the Bernard, though. Q go you remember Mrs. Peacock? A. No. Jafsie said he knew Capt. Eels at [ for the Finally | Woods Hole, Mass. Q. Where did you know Mrs. Pea- cock? A She was & tenant of mine st City Island. : Q. Did you ever tell any ene the headquarters of the kidnapers was at | along in rtops and starts, thoroughly Dr. Condon told Reilly he had been | ln.sked to go by steamer to Brockton, | City Island? A. No. Q. When? A. In about November, 1932, The letters were accepted in evi- jumped to another on you at your home during the ran- som negotiations? * A. There were hundreds of them. Reilly then asked a woman named Mrs. Ferrain to stand up and come over to the witness stand for Condon to identify. Jafsie identified her as one who, with a companion named Mrs. Busch, had called on him. Q. Didn't you give Mrs. Busch these letters (referring to the previous ex- hibits) and tell them they were in the handwriting of the kidnapers? Unable to Recollect Naming Four as Abductors, A. No, I did not. Q. Didn't you tell them you knew the kidnapers were four in name? A. I don't remember. Reilly asked if Mrs. Busch had not identified herself as a native of Flem- ington by exhibiting bank checks. A. I don’t remember exactly. “Jafsie” said that the woman had told him she had bought two farm plots near Hopewell, one of which she hoped to work herself. Wilentz demanded that the letters be read to the jury “The contents are not so portant,” writing. read.” Counsel then agreed that the con- tents had no reference to the Lind- bergh case, but were introduced for handwriting evidence by the defense, Reilly started to ask if Dr. Condon had been transferred from a public school where he had been principal in 1902 because of “conduct unbecom- ing a gentleman because of conduct with a woman teacher.” “No. sir,” snapped Condon while ‘Wilentz objected Wilentz said he did not object to thorough cross-examination, but he would oppose “the ascassination of a witness’ characted by inference.” Judge Trenchard permitted t answer to stand and court recess shortly afterward for luncheon The defense’s excursion into Con- don’s record as a public school teacher in New York brought the reply from Jafsie. “I have been transferred twice dur- ing 50 years in school work.” He seemed hurt at Reilly’s remarks. Discussed Farm Transaction With Women. im- Reilly replied, “it's the hand- I will not have the letters Mrs. Koren and Mrs. Busch were two women who came to Dr. Cor don’s Bronx home in March, 1932 when his identity as Jafsie was known Reilly brought out Mrs. Busch told ‘(he doctor she was familiar with | Hopewell. A real estate transactic: | involving two farms was discussed | Condon said. | ~ The defense said it would call M Koren as its witness in the case. Although the court was cleared f | ~(Continued on Page 5, Column 1.) Q Did you ever tell any one you | unable to sttain the pace that so were Teceiving mail from City Island | impressed the court yesterday. ? Looks Scornfully Trom asjiaRSnt of the Ridnaperad At Chief of Defense. Jafsie's spirit appeared subdued. He ‘ Reilly showed him two letters. seemed a little tired. The dramatic Q. 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