The Daily Alaska empire Newspaper, May 7, 1948, Page 2

Full Report of Fad Finding Commitiee in Dispufe Between longsh_oremen,.]uneaq Spruce cording secretary of the TWA, Local 71 was called.) Carter: You are conversant with the contrac Gustafson: Yes. Carter: Who is the sole bargain- ing agent? Gustafson: We are. Carter: Has any other union a right to demand a portion of your work? Gustafson: work, no. Carter: What is your reaction to this controversy? Gustafson: A union man is not No portion of our gain with them. The loading of Meeting of Fact Finding Committee, | company barges by mill employees | Called by Mayer Hendrickson, at P. M., April 3041948 is the accepted thing in the lumber | Pr industry down below. The Federated | Téquired to cross a picket line and Employers deal with the longshore- | they wont. Mayor Waino Hendrickson men but we do not belong to that| Carter What is the reaction of Mr. Charles W. Carter, Chairman | organjjation. The longshoremen | YOUr unicn? Mr 1s J. Moore have stated that they have a con- Gustafson: The boys don't want Mr. ur H. Walther tract. That is incorrect. They also | to cross a picke tline. Mr. J. Newmarker stated in the pavers that they have | Carter: What do you think of the E. Ninnis been trying to get a contract since | Picket line? object of this meet- jact September. If they have a con-| Gustafson: I think it is legal to trv to get the different| yract any law can tell them it That seems to be the opinion of the on this dispute between the | cn he enforced in the courts, We National Labor Relations Board. horemen and the JUneau pave definite orders from our board | Carter: Did the authority not say ice and see what can be done to directors who have had much that his recommendations might be along these lines, not to | that no case exists? | of €n it out experience THE DAILY ALASKA EMPIRE—JUNEAU, ALASKA local would not fight that because| That opinion only holds when two | we do not consider this our work. | unions are competing for the same | will be certified eventually. Our|Mr. Card quoted the N.LR.B. law.] Present: Mayor Waino Hendrickson Mr. Charles W. Carter The longshoremen have waterfront work. Why should we stick our nose in that? (he leaves) Newmarker: If they are certified they could insist on bargaining on this type of work. (Mr. Joe Guy spokesman for the LLW.U. 116 is called). Carter: The object of this com- mittee is to try to iron out this dis- (pute. Briefly, what is the stand of [ the local 116? Guy: This dispute has been going |on for the last nine months. We had no trouble with Mr. Ruther- ford. We gave him men when he | called and if we could not, we gave | him permission to hire other men. | The Juneau Spruce threw us out. | They started loading barges and | threw us out. We went down again | when they loaded the barge for | Prince Rupert and Mr. Hawkins | would not talk to us. ' Carter: How long did your union continue to do the work after the | Juneau Spruce Company took over? Guy: I don’t know. Hendrickson: Last fall? Gu Yes, sir: Carte: work. This dispute is not between | Mr. Thomas J. Moore I B e e o e i b L B as the sole bargaining agent for the | employees except for superintend- ents. foremen and office help. Art. 2 states that the union will elect a | e e ¢ oy g e £ o ) | feited their jurisdiction by their Mr. Hawkins of the Juneau|cnter into any agreement with the Gusl;\:‘st?n: The sawmill brought | 1c6 nts Mr. Card to speak | jongshoremen and that the only | @ case against the longshoremen and | fc company bargaining agent for our employees | the matter was taken back to Seat- | Card: T will have to give you ihe| i n 271 It has bzen said that we | tle and they said it was not an ory. To begin with, the sruce purchased the plant 1 Lumber Mills on May could if we wanted to. Our contract was entered into in good faith and treating with these people would be complete Juneau S of the Ju steamships? Guy: On barges and boats. unfair practice on the part of the longshoremen. Did you load on regular two unions; it is between the com- pany and the longshoremen. We have tried to arbitrate. We have had one successful meeting. The company continues to refuse to deal with the longshoremen because they have a contract with another union. The recording secretary of the woodworkers agreed that they had no objection to the longshoremen doing this work. The employer has a right to give the work to whom he pleases. If the employer and the longshoremen would sit here to- night they could come to an agree- ment. Certification means their officers must file. The members cannot force their officers to file affidavits. Then the union would have to claim jurisdiction over this type of work An election would have to be held and if the longshoremen won the election the company- would have to bargain. These actions might take a year. Can the employer bargain with the longshoremen? Yes. The sawmill workers have for- statement in the press. When recommendations are made that an action be dropped the man Carter: Has he turned in any Carter: Did you ever work with the Juneau Spruce on one of their | own barges? I 1, 1647, There is now N0 CONNEC- | zoting in bad faith and would actu- | recommendations? tion between them and the NeW | anv pe violating our contract if we Gustafson: I don’t 'know. Word | management. We purchased their | 4iq The mill union now says that | has come back that thev did but his | assets but nothing else, N0 €ON- | (hey did not intend to cover loading | Feccmmendations have to be O.K.ed | Jumber or*other. The repre- es of the Juneau Spruce met atives 'or iapor and arrang- ct with I.W.A. Local No g them as the sole bar- gaining agency for the employees the Juneau Spriice. This was a in the contract but they are new by Washington, D. C. men who were not in charge when Moore: What does your work con- | the contract was signed. | sists of? ] Gustafson: From the beginning to | the finished product. | Hendrickson: But that is not in | the contract? ! cts. represen ed a cont Moore: How much is involved in dollars and cents? Card: I do not know. Tt is im- new contract and replaced the con- material tract which had existed between the Moore ‘Who, over a period of Gustafson: No. Juneau Lumber Mills and Local years, has done that work? Hendrickson: Have your men | 271. Mr. Hawkins asked m2 to come Card: No one. The Juneau Lum- | Joaded? f up and wind up negotiaticms on the bper Mills never had barges. I will| Gustafson: Yes, we have. Whenl read an answer to a letter request- | the mill was run by Mr. Rutherford ing advice on the two point§: | the longshoremen had the work. We j whether anvone is needed for pull- | have not the right to take this work ing carrier blocks and whether the away from the longshoremen. This unloading of the scow in Tacoma | is a new practice to this particular | by longshoremen sets a precedent. mill, | The answer is dated October 22, 1947 Moore: Was this particular work land in effect states that carrier | included in the contract? | blocks are pulled by sling men and | Gustafson: No. We have no dis- ever loaded was paid by the steam- | the longshoremen agreed to this| pute. ship. The union wanted iwo long- "pmclwv and there was no necessity | Hendrickson: And has your union shoremen to pull carrier blocks. Mr. | for us to hire 2 additional men for | eyer asked your headquarters Hawkins wrote and asked for ad- |this, and that scows in this area| whether you should do this work? vice. As the longshoremen down be- {are to be loaded by our employees.| Gustafson: Two weeks ago our low do this themselves I told Mr.| Hendrickson: Have you taken any | president was here and he met with Hawkins to ignore them for two rea- | action to get a court ruling? | Mr. Card and Mr. Hawkins and I do ', sons: (1) Local 271 was our bnr-! Card: We have filed but there has | ot know about the outcome. I gaining agent and (2) we had no | been no decision. I will quote from | ynderstood there are meetings go- reason to hire longshoremen to do |an authority of the National Labor | ing on below between the wood- that work for us. I arrived October | Relaticns Board in January, 1948— | workers and the longshoremen and | 23rd and that afternoon Mr. Ford {ho union can try to force any em- | the conciliators down below. An out- and Mr. Burgo and Mr. McCamp | ployer to assign work to another | come has not yet been reported. came and notified us that they craft which has been assigned to| Carter: If the N.LR.B. rules that were representatives and demanded | another union. | the longshoremen are not bargain- | that we sign a contract. I asked Ninnis: What union represents | ing agent, would you continue to do | them to prove their representation | the crew on the tugs? the work? { and they had none. I advised them | Card: None. Gustafson: That would have to| that we were bargaining with Local | Newmarker: You have never hir- | pe left up to the members. 271 and would not bargain with any | ed longshoremen to load your ships? Carter: Where is your headquart- one else representing our employees Card: Never. ters? They started out and Mr. McCamp Carter: When the lumber is on Gustafson: The woodworkers in | said—“What about the two men we the steamship company dock you | gSeattle. sent down?” I said we did not pay have no further jurisdiction? Carter: They would instruct you them and only paid the man we Card: None. . not to cross the picket line? hired. We never paid them. Hendrickson: And on your dock? | Gustafson: Our president was Just before I reached Juneau & Card: There we take care of it | nere. If our president had said “go company scow was placed alongside with our own employees. | back to work” it would have done. the dock and lumber was loaded Carter: Do you have your supplies | Carter: So vou have to sit tight? aboard by mill employees. This lum- | joaded on your dock? | Gustafson: Yes. No man will cross | the beginning of July, 1947 the longshoremen’s union demanded that two longshoremen be hired to puill carrier blocks when loading for | commercial steamship companies. When shipping to Anchorage and other points in Alaska, the Jumber was delivered alopgside and who- new contract with the Union. About | | ber was sent to Tacoma and un-' Card: Yes. the picket line. loaded by longshoremen in Tacoma. Carter: Then who takes care of | Carter: In your personal opinion, When it reached there it belonged it? | who would load if they could not to the purchaser and not to the Card: Our men. I understand the | pecome a bargaining agent? Juneau Spruce. | Alaska Juneau Mine did the same.| Gustafson: I cannot answer. This The longshoremen indicated that They had their own scows. I worked | gispute has been going on for they were going to make an issue of | for five years as a union represen- | months. It must be settled between that. On October 23rd and Novem- | tative. I tried to get what I could|the longshoremen and the firm. ber 3rd we asked about their posi- | for my men. Now I work for the| Hendrickson: Would vou not be | tion on that. They were uncertain. i employers I have had many ap- | gbliged to do it if the longshoremen The secretary wired IL.W.A. head- | proach me to do the same and I concede? quars and asked what the local don't blame them. Gustafson: Yes. union should do. I did not see the Carter: You are a lawyer? Hendrickson: Have you been sec- telegram or the answer. They told | Card: No. T practice administra- | retary long? me they were advised to go ahead tive law. ; Gustafson: Three months. and load barges and not give the | Carter: Could you legally enter Hendrickson: Have you any ideas jurisdiction to another union. The |into a contract with the longshore- | for a settlement? contract with Local M 271 was sign- ' men? Gustafson: I would like to see it ed on November 3, 1947 and in that | Card: No. We are bound to the I.| settled. Our president, William Flint contract they were recognized as W. A. and any other contract would has done his best. A week ago he the sole bargain agent for all em- violate our present contract with thought the management and the ployees, excluding superintendents, | them. There are legal means under longshoremen could get together. foremen and office help. which the longshoremen could be| They had a session for about 3’4,| At the time we purchased the made the bargaining agent if they hours. On Friday. There was to have plant, at the request of the Army wanted to use them. The National | been another meeting last Monday engineers who wanted a reputable Labor Relations Board could give and then Mr. Card phoned and said company to come in and take over | them jurisdiction if they applied for | he had mothing to discuss. the business with the understanding ' it legally. Hendrickson: Mr. Card said he that they would take every stick of | Carter: What would you do if was anxious to settle through the lumber we could cut in the next five they did get certified as the bar- | right bargaining group. years, we were assured of plenty of gaining agency? What would be your | Gustafson: I went to Mr. Hawkins work. After we took over the en- attitude? when this came up and he said he gineers’ orders ceased. We had to! Card: I met with them last Fri- | didn't want to talk to the long- ship to the States. The only way we ' day in Mr. Bensons' office. I said | shoremen. Whichever way it goes, could meet prices was by shipping |there that if they become certified | we are caught. If we had sided with on our own barges; the steamship | we will meet and bargain with | the mill our union would have been company's rates were too high. S0 them. broke. we had to get our own barges and | Carter: We do not want to put Carter: Why don't the longshm'ew tugs to get lumber down to the you on the spot, but this hurts a|men take it up through channels; market at a price which would com- | lot of people. |and prove that they are entitled pete. We made an agreement with “ Card: When anyone can prove his | to take this kind of work? the Local M 271. Thirty some thou- |right to bargain, we will bargain, Gustafson: I know that the long- sand feet of lumber was sent to but we cannot be forced. shoremen union is not certified. Prince Rupert and was loaded here | Hendrickson: The Department of | That means that the employers do by the employees. Then the long- | Labor-here has jurisdiction? | not have to bargain with them. shoremen advised that they wanted Card: No. We only recognize theé | Hendrickson: Even though they the job of loading these barges. Mr. | National Labor Relations Board. We | have a contract with your union? Hawkins keeps in close touch with | cannot take chances with our pres- | Coos Bay on these matters. We have | ent contract. | continually advised him to make no Carter: You have nothing further Hendrickson: If the NLR.B. sayc their group has the jurisdiction the agreement with the longshoremen, to say? management will bargain with as our contract is like the other, Card: No. them. ones in the lumber industry, to Carter: Has Mr. Hawkins any-| Gustafson: Word should be com- iing from Washington very shortly. If Washington says it is their work, the company, should be willing to talk. The N.L.R.B. has an attorney make only one contract. | thing more to say? Their demand would make it nec- | Hawkins: T think everything has essary for us to fire some of our|been covered. employees and hire longshoremen.| Card: After Juneau Spruce took We will not do this as we will not | over we found that when the can- | in Seattle to express his opinion. do anything at gun-point. The only | nery tenders wanted anything they Hendrickson: It should not have issue as we see it is whether we will | called up Mr. Schmidt to get some | been discussed until the decision is bargain with the longshoremen for {longshoremen to load. This was made in Washington. . loading the company barges. Until | done as a service and the longshore- Carter: I think the man in Seattle they are the bargaining agent we men were paid by mill company |talked out of turn. will not treat with them. We under- ' check and the cannery tenders were ~ Moore: Mr. Card said the com- stand that under the law if a union | charged on the invoice for the long- | pany would be liable to suit if theyK can prove that it is a representstive' shoremen’s wages. That went on for make a contract with the longshore- of the majority of the employees | a couple of months and when we men while they have a contract the company has to bargain with |learned about it, we stopped it. | with 271. them. M 232 at Ketchikan has prov- (Mr. Card and Mr. Hawkins left | Gustafson: I don't think so. We ed this and we have agreed to bar- and Mr, Frank W. Gustafson, the re- are not certified either. Our local | with the Juneau Spruce? Gustafson: I don't understand. | Guy: T cannot say. I have just re- joined the unicn. 7 Carter: Did you ever load a Ju- neau Spruce barge? ‘Wukich: One. To Edna Bay. Carter: How long did the contract with the Juneau Lumber Mills run? Guy: Until renewed. In 1941 the last contract was drawn until 1947 and the last one was signed in September, 1947 and was to run un- til a new one was signed. Carter: Will you bring the econ- tract? Guy: Yes. (2 men went for it) Moore: We should get the wood- workers contract too. (Anthony Wukich, president of local 116 brought the contract with the Juneau Lumber Mills) i Carter: How long does it run? | Wukich: Until June 15, 1948. This | is the contract that is under nego- tiation and the Juneau Spruce bought this contract. Hendrickson: They could not get away from it if they wanted to? Guy: No. Carter: What agreement did Monahan have with the Juneau Lumber Mills? | Wukich: The agreement which terminates June 15, 1948. Carter: What agreement have you Wukich: them. Moore: The precedent is that a company assumes the contract un- til it ruus out. Guy: They continued with the sawmill workers contract until Ng= vember. 3 Carter: That contract was en- tered into when? Hendrickson: 1946. Newmarker: Do they renew a con- tract every year? Guy: No. It would run unless either party want to open it up for certain reasons. Otherwise it renews automatically. Carter: Did you serve notice on the Juneau Spruce before the picket line? Guy: After the picket line. ‘Wukich: April 15, 1948. Hendrickson: When did you zive | notice? Guy: April 15th—for renewal of the contract. | Hendrickson: It is illegal for a | union to strike to try to force the | company to deal with a union un- less the union has been certified; trying to force it to assign certain | work to members of another union | rather than to the union which is doing the work. The N.L.R.B. made that decision. | Guy: This is a lockout by the company. Ninnis: Who does this work out- side? Guy: I don't know. I have not worked outside. In all Alaska the longshoremen do this work on| steamships and on barges. Carter: There is no condition under which you would remove the picket line? Guy: We have no other recourse. Carter: Mr. Card says if your group is certified he will gladly bar- gain with you. Moore: The Taft Hartley law needs interpretation: without cer- tification a union cannot use the machinery of the Board. | Carter: They claim that they have a bargaining agent and that if your group can prove you can bargain they will negotiate. You dp not have to be certified unless you want to use the machinery of the | NLRB. ! Moore: That applies to the union and not to an individual. Ninnis: How does that apply? Moore: An individual member can file a suit of unfair labor practice and use the machinery of the N. L. R. B. % Hendrickson: For a long time ac- This same one covers tions of the union have hurt the town. % Evans: When both sides have been heard I want to give some legal points based on this hearing. | Carter: Where can we reach you if we want you to come back? Guy: At home or my wife will know. (he leaves) Evans (of the Territorial Depart- ment of Labor): Mr. Card wants the barges of the Juneau Spruce to- be loaded by sawmill workers, The longshoremen loaded every- thing until the “Juneau Spruce pur- chased the plant. Lighters were loaded by millworkers in Sitka but all other boats by longshoremen, making the recommendation is rea- sonably sure that his superior will concur. There may be a long de- lay. If charges are dismissed, the company has indicated that they will not take that to mean they have to bargain: They could still appeal and cause further delay. I have here a wire from Mr. Peter- son to Mr. Benson, Territorial Com- missioner of Labor, which indicates that the respective parties now in Juneau have the authority to 2ffect a settlement. This wire came in just now and can go in the record. It gives the opinion of the con- ciliator normally in charge of dis- putes in Alaska. I recommend either negotiation or arbitration. Here is the wire: “Frcm Albin L. Peterson to Henry Benson. Regret that we are unable to come to Juneau in response to Mayor Waino Hendrickson and vour request to assist in bringing about a settlement of the work stoppage at the Juneau Spruce Corporation mill. STOP However since our tele- phone conversation of yesterday contracts have been made with in- ternational representative Gettings Juneau Spruce they will have to | for the ILWU, Mr. James Fadling, International President IWA and Mr. Henry Cheney, President Coos Bay Lumber Co. STOP In summar- { izing the results of these conversa- tions they indicate that the re- spective representatives of the par- ties now in Juneau have the author- ity to effect a settlement and that at this time nothing can be ac- complished toward a settlement at Seattle. STOP We strongly urge that the parties at interest give full cooperation to your office in order that a settlement of this work stop- page will be brought about in the immediate future STOP Contact will still be made with the parties here and if any developments that we feel could be of assistance you will be advised.” Carter: What were the longshore- men’s demands? The story has been circulated that the longshore- men wanted six men hired. Hendrickson: Do they set the number of men on the job? The union says the company can tell them the number of men needed. Can the union guarantee that there will be no overtime? The union says that can be written into the con- tract. Can the company put on other men if the longhoremen’s union cannct supply the men? Yes. (Mr. Walther had to leave) Carter: Can we get these men together tonight? Evans: Mr. Benson can. Ninnis: But will he? Evans: That's his job. Mr. Carter, here are copies of the wire for the company and for the union. Carter: What about trying to get them together? Newmarker: It would be better tomorrow. Ninnis: How about 9 A. M. in the morning? Carter: That might be a good idea. Hendrickson: And advise them that they have the authority to settle. Moore: We should get confirma- tion from down below on this wire. Hendrickson: Could not Benson's office phone that Mr. Cheney send wires to us, the company and the union? Evans: The unions have their authority already. . Hendrickson: Then only the com- pany needs to have confirmation. We could call on the phone and ask the company if it knows about the ire. woartef: 1t would be better to take it to them personally and ask if they can meet in the morning. Mr. Arthur H. Walther | Mr. J. Newmarker Mr. E. E. Ninnis Carter: From the evidence sub- 1 mited_this committee has decided i that the only point at issue in this | dispute is as follows: First: The I. L. W. U. Local 116 claims jurisdiction over loading of all lumber produced by the Juneau Spruce Corporation, whether load- ?Pd on company barges, steamers or | other water borne carriers, by rea- )son of an agreement between the Juneau Lumber Mills and I.L.W.U. Local 116. Second: The Juneau Spruce Corporation maintains that no agreement made between the Juneau Lumber Mills and any labor organization is binding upon them (the said Juneau Spruce Corpora- tion). That after the purchase of | plant from the Juneau Lumber Mills {the said Juneau Spruce Corpora- with the I.W.A. Local 271, recogniz- Juneau Spruce Corporation. I sug- gest that this committee request | the LL.W.U. Local 116 to enter suit | in the U. S. District Court at Ju- neau, Alaska, against ihe Juneau Spruce Corporation to decide the | jment between the Juneau Lumber Mills and the LL.W.U. Local 116 now binding upon the Juneau { Spruce Corporation. If the members of the LLW.U. Local 116 are un- willing to spend the money neces- sary to conduct this hearing, our committee will request the City Council of the City of Juneau to finance said hearing. In the event lof such action the IL.W.U. Local I'136 will no doubt engage their own attorney but if the union so desires this committee will request the City Council to offer the services of the City Atterney to assi presenting its cas Hendrickson: We can only requesi that the City Council take this action. . Carter: The union claims that they still have a contract until July of 1948 and that although it is one | they had with the sawmill, it is binding on the Juneau Spruce. Hendrickson: If the Court orders . that this contract is binding on the tion did enter into an agreement | ing said local as the sole bargaining | agent for all employees of the said | | question whether or n8t the agree- | t the Union in | committee to be known as the shop | committee. We did not specifically include barge loading. It has been said the longshoremen had a con- tract with Mr. Rutherford that ex- tended to the Juneau Spruce. On December 1, 1945 the Coos Bay com- | pany purchased a plant, 18 miles out of Coos Bay. At the time the plant had contracts with two un- | ions, We did not purchase any of the contracts. Even though these contracts had some time to run, they did not cover us and an elec- | tion was held to determine the bar- gaining agent. Moore: Elections can be held at any time. Card: An existing contract is a | bar to an election. i Carter: Any questions? Card. Here is Glen Kirkham who was present at the drawing of the | contract. Glen, were you President of the I. W. A. at the time the con- | tract was signed? G. Kirkham: Yes. Card: Did you take charge of the | | negotiations? | Kirkham: Yes. | Card: Was there any discussion the work of loading? | 3 { Kirkham: We even wrote below | and in a wire Secretary O'Day said if there was any tiouble with the | longshdremen to let them know. | | We also informed the longshoremen 1 | that we could not allow them to | | load the scows. Card: This contract was to cover everything at the plant? | Kirkham: We said we would not | touch anvthing that went on a | going vessel that had its own rig- | ging. We never made a move without word from headquarters. i Ninnis: What is the feeling now | as to loading barges? Kirkham: They only refuse to | cross the picket line. Ninnis: Regardless of the picket | line, what is their feeling? | Kirkham: They do not want the ilangshoremen down there. At the | time the contract was drawn we | wanted all the work ourselves, we | | did not want anyone to have any | | of the work. | Card: At that time you wanted to | do all the work? Kirkham: Anything. Ninnis: And on big ships? abide by it. ! Kirkham: We delivered to the Moore: The Court has no juris- Bull Rail. On the small barges we diction. | would load up to a certain number Hendrickson: Even if the Court | of feet. does not-have jurisdiction, the mill Ninnis: Was that in the con- | at least would be working while a | tract? being made. Kirkham: No. That was verbal Jdecision is | Carter: The wages a day will at least amount to $2.000.00 a day. | Ninnis: Between fifty and sixty | thousand a month. < | Carter: If they have a just cause | they should be willing to go to the | Courts. & i Moore: What did the company | say about the telegram? Carter: They said they had no knowledge of it. Hendrickson: They said this morning thay had just received a letter on that. | Newmarker: If they get the long- shoremen to take off the picket line until a decision is reached in Wash- ington, will the company abide by the decision from Washington? !t Carter: We will ask them. We will ask them if they will abide by the decision in a test case in the Court here. Newmarker: We should get them both to put it in writing. (Hawkins and Cprd and two others arrive). Hendrickson: I will approach the City Council on the proposal. Carter: We will request the Coun- cil. Mr. Card, have you anything aew to say? Card: Yes, I have. Late yesterday I was asked if T had received any word from Mr. Cheney, President of the Company. A létter arrived this morning from Mr. Cheney. It is dated April 29th and addressed to Mr. G. H. Card. In effect it states that he received a telephone call from Peterson who had a suggestion meeting in Seattle. Mr. Cheney company. Mr. Peterson said he was glad to hear this and seemed to agree. An interposition of a new union for bargaining was an out- rage. Mr. Cheney said the company would stand on this if it takes a year shut down to clean it up. I think there are people in this town who think the company is bluffing. I think this letter shows that we are not. In regard to the Federal Con- ciliator service called in by Mr. Benson, I firmly believe that the Alaska Territorial Department of Labor is somewhat the instigator of this situation and that they have Ninnis: Is it a matter of dollars certainly assisted in prolonging it. and cents? Hendrickson: He told me not. Carter: I think it is certain that the only thing they will go for is arbitration. Hendrickson: Then why not sug- gest that they do that? : Evans: They have not tried to ain yet. b‘;l‘oore: The woodworkers have lost their right to protest through the article in the papers. Hendrickson: How about this, Mr. Carter, deliver the wires to the com- pany and Joe Guy and we will meet at 10:00 AM. tomorrow? All: O. K. (The meeting adjourned at 3:50 PM.) Second Meeting of the Fact Finding Committee at 10:15 A. M. on Bo‘llil;.lb!l, 1948 i Mr. Evans asked me if it would be any use in calling the Federal Con- ciliation Service and I told him “no”. The longshoremen have never established their right to bargain with the plant. Last night over ‘the radio a representative of the Ter- ritorial Department of Labor said the contract at the mill was some- what ambiguous and open to several interpretations. I have a copy of the contract to read if you are inter- ested. I have brought along the man who was President of the I. W. A. when the contract was drawn up and who understands what was understood at the time it was made. Carter: Give us the text of the clause whieh pertains to the matter we ard considering. Card: Between the Juneau Spruce Mill and Local M 271 . . . Art.<1 states that the union is recognized from Mr. Benson that they have a | told him that he saw no merit in a | meeting and stated the case for the | among the rest. Card: At the time, did the union have in the wage book issued by the lieadquarters wages for this work? Kirkham: Yes, when low wages were $1.50 an hour. Card: In that book was there any | wage rate for loading barges? Kirkham: I think I remember that there was at $1.55 and we talked about it and asked for 10c more an hour, $1.65. | Card: If that was not your work, | there would have been no reason | for having it in the book? | Kirkham: That is right. | Ninnis: In other words, your union did everything? Kirkham: That is correct. They | wanted to take over green load and | other things. Thev wanted what was impossible. I do not see why we cannot load our own SCOWS | with our own equipment. Our head- | quarters said anything for the hold | we could not load; only anything | that went on deck. | | Ninnis: Did you load anything | below deck? | | Kirkham: No. [ | Card: On ships where there was | tackle the longshoremen loaded. | | Kirkham: Our men want to overtime. Sometimes 22 hours with- | out stopping; that means some- | | thing. They still want to load these | | scows and barges. | | Hendrickson: Is the Secretary there now? Mr. O'Day? | Card: No, he is in Sitka, with the | | Pacific Lumber Inspection Bureau. Hendrickson: Who is the Presi- | | dent now? Kirkham: William Flint. Carter: This is my idea of the | situation. From the evidence sub- | mitted to the committee, the only | point is as follows: The IL.W.U claims all juridiction because of an agreement with the Juneau Lumber Mills. The Company contends that ro agreement is binding on the Juneau Spruce except the one with 271, Card: That is a fair estimate. Carter: We plan to ask the long- shoremen to remove the picket line without admitting that there is a flaw in their contention, and bring a test case which will be binding. Card: That is what I told you yesterday. Carter: This committee is going to request the City Council to fi- nance such a test case and offer the City Attorney’s servit Card: I do not thifk I should know what you are planning to do. If they have a contract, and it is legal, they can go to the courts and get it enforced. As T told you yes- terday there are legal means to get what they want and we should pre- fer that they use legal means inf- stead of pressure. Carter: If they get a court de- cision that this contract is legal, would vou recognize them? Card: I told you yesterday we would recognize ‘them if they were certified. We will recognize any- thing legal. Hendrickson: Would you recog- nize this court? Card: Yes, this court is as good as any in the land. As I said, we will FRIDAY, MAY 7, 1948 recognize any legal decision binding on us. Carter: If they move the picket line will you open the mill? Card: If they will do everything they are supposed to do. Carter: If the court rules that the contract with the longshoremen is legal will you open? Card: If the picket line is re- moved. Carter: Even if the court decision goes against you? Card: We will abide by any legal decision. Carter:: It is always well to have it m black and white. .Card: I learned long ago we cannot think of everything. I wish we had had everything in black and white before. Carter: Have you anything furth- er to say, Mr. Hawkins? Hawkins: No. Carter: Do you think this is fair? Hawkins: If this court rules that the longshoremen have the jurisdic- tion and we abide by their decision and later the C.I.O. or IL.W.A, de- ciaes that their contract was meant to cover loading, would the court decision be binding on them? Carter: I may be old fhshioned, but I stul have faith in our courts. las to which employees would do!I think the court would be impar- tial. I think, this court would be fair to you. Card: I think that we would not be held liable. Carter: We are trying to pase this on commen sense. If they did load those barges, how many man days would that be a month? Card: That we will not discuss. Carter: We only want a compari- son. 400 men may be out of em- ployment in Southeastern Alaska because of this. Card: That would only mean a change of employees. If the long- shoremsn do the work we would have to fire the men who are doing it now. This is a strike to make us replace present employees with others. Hendrickson: How many men? Hawkins: Two men on the barges and one man on the dock. Hendrickson: Three men. Hawkins: Later we can re-arrange the work to use only two men. (Mr. Walther had to leave to go back to the store). . Nini Where do you class this work in your production? Card: The contract says anything from beginning to finished product. It says nothing about where the production ends. Hawkins: The finished product is where it leaves our hands. Card: You can set the finished product any place. You can say it is finished when it leaves the trim- mers. When it is ready to sell. The rumor in this regard was raised by a man who is not in the LW.A. and does not know conditions. .There is nothing in the contract to explain when it is the finished product. . Kirkham: When we wrote the contract up we intended to cover all the work. (Mr. Card, Mr. Hawkins and Glen Kirkham leave). Moore: Glen is not a member of the union now. He is a foreman and is excluded under the contract. Ninnis: But he said the union wanted to do the work and the sec- retary said yesterday they did not care. Moore: If they take off the picket line and let the LW.A. load they lose their right to protest. Hendrickson: If the district court would take it and settle it in a day or two . . . Carter: If it could settle it in a week . . . Hendrickson: If it were brought to court without removing the picket line . .. Carter: How long would it take to get Guy here? Hendrickson:.I don’t know. Carter: We could see him and ask I was given a copy of a telegram. L handle this because it gives them | them to take it back to the union and answer us Monday. Newmarker: I think the judge would cooperate. Hendrickson: Would you want {0 meet at 1:30 to talk to the long- | shoremen? All: O. K. Hendrickson: Carter, could you stop by his house and tell him? Carter: Yes. (Adjourned at 11:20 A. M.) Meeting at 1:50 P. M., May 1, 1948 Present: Mr. Hendrickson Mr. Carter Mr. Moore Mr. NeWmarker Mr. Ninnis (For the longshoremen: Joe Guy, Anthony Wukich and Sam Adams). Carter: We will give you our pro- posal and you can take it to your union and give us an answer at 10:00 A. M. on Monday, May 3rd. (He reads proposal already sug- gested to the company). Guy: That would not be permis- sible. Under the Taft-Hartley Bill this Court has no jurisdiction. Moore: That is correct. s Guy: We got that opinion through Mr. Bénson. Carter: If these courts have no jurisdiction, I would like to know it now. Moore: That is correct. T looked it up this noon. Newmarker: Why don’t you put the picket line on the barges? Moore: That would be company property. They could not go there. Carter: Do you remember refus- ing to load a ship going west? Guy: That is correct. Carter: What did you base your refusal on? Guy: Going through a picket line. Carter: Where did you get the de- cision regarding our local courts? Moore: I will go and get it. (He leaves to get it). (Continued on Page Three)