The San Francisco Call. Newspaper, January 18, 1899, Page 2

THE SAN FRANCISCO CALL, WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 18, 1899 STENOGRAPHIC RE OF INVE TIGATION. INVESTIGATORS GET RIGHT DOWN T0 WORK THE WHOLE STORY OF WRIGHT'S DEGRA- DATION BROUGHT OUT. Verbatim Report of the Proceedings of the Committee hich Is Looking Into the Charges Against the Speaker of the Assembly. ! Has that defined it sufficiently for you?"” Mr. Bacon—‘Yes, sir. | the_case, it seems to me, Mr. Chairman— as T understand it this resolution was in- troduced by Mr. Johnson, and in his pre- lution he says that there made of improper con- ems to me that it would put before your com- improper doings to investigate amble to the res have.been charges per to first mittee some charge of on the part of some Senatorial candidate candidates can penaed here to refute those cl < to me that it would be a very e of affairs if tes. Senate can be brou before a committee of this kind an the conduct of his campaign Investigated without there being the least cha ng wrong about his cam- And we desire, in a spirit of fair- and in justice to' Mr. Grant to ob- ject to Mr. Grant being the first witness se- for the reason that there is a_ candidate for there is anytk proper conduct of this campaign. understand it, 2] entlemen of the committee, think there is any question but that it is and it is already conced- ed by the public to be a fact, that these resolutions grew out of ‘a- certain article public property. i Mr. Leake, the managing ed all, should be put upon the s s charges—or m e t Mr. Wright sald ant_said to him, id to him, that led mething improper or what somebody s him to believe that 1 been done in this campaign. appeal to you, gentiemen, that it is not the dignity stand .here to refute something that he knows nothin; T t upon the stand to s nething that will indicate to you that | wrong committed.” ¥ou put somebody the permissi ommittee to address it for a The chairma 1 arret McEnerney.” The chairman—"You have my permis- “Mr. E. S. Pillsbury and Mr. John D. Spreckels, Mr. McEnerney ke, the managing editor. dopted by the House of which you gentlemen are members recites that: cer- charges have con has already stated, it i§' common ty that those charges were‘made in We expected to address the mittee-hefore it outlined the procedure b it had determined to follow and to zest that inasmuch.as the charge was who oéeupy minence: and financial stability in the te it may be readily presumed are familiar with some of the facts which’ the charge: and if it were the sen: teé—which presumably hag no information about the matter and which Is to sit here with no preconceived notions about the matter and no prior knowledge—to permit us to put in proof to substantiate our charges and let us bring out the facts with directness and with expedition, the proceeding could be brought to an early close. 1f it was found, after a short period of time, that we were wasting the time of the committee it could take the matter It seems to us that, having, as we claim, the facts within our knowledge, which the committee does not , better results could be ac- complished by asking us‘to establish the charges if we are able.” The chairman—*I will say to the gen- tlemen that. this committee is not a court g specific charge: The ‘resolu- ection of Judg: 1g that 1 would not 5 1 posttions of of your commit- imply report yrted by the to the Speak- | out of our hands, in amendment | recommend | m. appoint Mr. Burnett in because, as has charges—at charges—have been It is a com- s no motion be- | lick—I will second his motion, T to get it before the com- | placed before this committee, mittee of- investigation, and I am quite willing, on my part, as chatrman of 'the d and second- | £ Mr. Meade to | reported to the House. There is be’ ‘pursued to the committee, and, indeed, question last evening, in our first meeting, | but the matter was left undecided, as I thought, and I will hear any suggestions the committee upon the proposi- Mr Mellick—"1 want to say for my part bsolutely opposed to the at ody coming here and run- If The Call wants to of our provinc ning this ma its charges d_to.carry them out in the. courts I am dead,_opposed to that. I A for Jibel—if they want to es- any line of argument or any facts <iness in the courts, not here. Bacon Is concerned, in his m willing for the attorneys to go far before this committee, When there is a witness on’ the stand . he has the right to ad- vice from an attorney, but I am not in favor of having an aftorney step in here this committee what We are here I think we | ot f the Assembly do just That is my If they have then, of cours; k that it would | this committee ‘make consented to and dictate shall do, or Suggest even. appointed to investigate this ourselves, and, by the Eternal, for one I want to 1 don't want attorneys to step in here and ask this question nor that question and stop us in it. perience In the last session was the attor- s, one side and the other, would come e and they would offer this sugges- tion and that, and until we banishe torneys, except.as advisers for any par- ticular witness, we made no Progress; and I am in favor of following that cedure now. We know what we are after. Let us go directly and get it without re- gard to any attorneys for any party.” Mr. Bacon—'"Mr. Chairman, I certainly do not desire to make an; all as to any procedure, first place, ask = how it would be out of the province of the committee to v make that request to the House. The amendment to the original motion was put by the chairman and was car- amended was also investigate! sper—“It is well, perhaps, to an- the committee has done the more comfortable room y during this investiga- but, for the present, we are told mpossible to do any better’than nd the session th n this room. You | need to look with care to the bulle- | for our occupan suggestion at simply, in the for information as what procedure you propose to adopt. Mr. Mellick will grant me this: Grant is acandidate for United States Sen- ator, a high and honorable position, and he should not be, by any committee, put | of defending are to be held, because they are not likely to be held in this room. too confining. re of the committee?” ¢ 3 Mr. Ulysse: t is too smail What is the further | 11 supply lace supply a plac a position There never has been a com- mittee in the Houses of Congress, nor in islature, that I ever heard of that not allow a man who is charged with dolng “something wron, to be represented by himsel pear for Mr. Grant in this mattef. from Los Angeles—W. I understand you, Mr. Chair- committee is not full?"” —“We lack one member." propose to pro- tigation prior to com- man, that the The chairma ceed with the inve pleting vour committee?” The chairman Mr. Bacon—"On behalf of Mr. Grant, who I8 subpenaed here as a witness, wé v much to have the chaic- man_make a statement, or the commit- tee make a statement, defining-the scope that this investigation will take—as to whether there is any specific charge that they propose to investigate, or-whether they propose to investigate campaign that has been made State. We simply desire it from this fact: that If there is a definite, specific charge to be investigated of course the witnesses in this matter will be very much fewer ber than 'if the entire campaign were gone into; and for that purpose we would like to know a about it, 59 as to prepare ourselves for that event.” The chairman—*“I will say to the com- mittee and to Mr. Bacon that the matter is in a somewhat nehulous condition in my own mind, but under the resolution it ‘seems to me that it province of the committee, if it sees fit, to investigate all the transactions with reference to the candidacy of any person for United States present Legislature, and it is my judg- ment that that will be the course taken. Mr. Mellick—*‘Mr. Bacon, let me answer “I_think so.” hat.”. Mr. Mellick—"Your suggestion is a good one. 1 think there is no question that at- torneys very often get into a committee of this kind and seek to divert it from its proper channel. idea, at all. We are here at this investi- gation, but what we want to know is what we are investigating.” chairman—** would like ve That is not my } our contention, if I understand you, Mr. Bacon, Is that there should be formulated charges made be- fore this committee. = Mr. *B: not formulated chdrges.” We don't want any informa- tion or any indictment, or anything of that kind' written out; but what we want is to have somebody gét un in this com- say that something That is all we little something mittee room and ‘wrong has| been done. want. Tt seems to me it is on ple requests ever made. The chairman—"How would it then be properly denominated an committee? Investigating acon—“Why, what are you inves- chajirman—““We are Investigati has been done.’ ¢ 3 nyestigating wrong. has been done. whether a wron, sald, ‘and as Mr. McEnernéy has sald, there is no question—I don't think there, is any doubt in the minds of the members |of this investigating committee—the charge is founded ugnn the fact that there was a charge in the newspaper of im- proper_conduct.” Mr. Mellick—"I will help you out as to how T am willing to go ahead, as a mem- ber.of this committee. For instance,’if the chairman calls Mr. Grant,” we put him on here and we ask .um a question; you, as his attorney, can object ‘to that question; and, as far as¢ am concerned, I am willing “to have you state your views before thé committee; but then we can decide, under the resolution, whether we are asking proper questions or not. We are not try- ing to shut you out as an attorney ‘and adviser of Mr. Grant, except when, in the investigation we ask a certain ques- tion. Then you can decide or vou can argue whether it is a_ Dproper question under this resolytion or hot.” But we have got to go right in and do something.' Mr. Bacon—“Well, I cannot help - but see, Mr. Chairman and other members of the committee, that it could not be any- thing but proper to start this investiga- tion in a logical w Mellick—*“Who decides what is al Mr. Bacon—"“You do. I am not decid- ing, T am simply making the suggestion that that would be the logical way' to do it; have somebody come in here and make rtcment of Something done improp- and_then, 1f there is no such: state- nt made, there is no need for any in- vestigation.” The chairman—“Your idea, then, would be that a charge be made. Mr. Bacon—"No, sir; I don’t say that.” The -chairman—"That _counsel fof the person supporting the charge should in- vestigate and offer his testimony in sup- port of that charge, and the other side— the other parties—must bring testimony to prove the falsity of the charge. Is that right?” Mr. Bacon—“Mr. Chairman, my posi- tion is simply this: that that article in The Call stands in just exactly the same stead as an indictment. Now, if you were in a court of justice, or anywhere on earth where the ordinary rules of: evi- dence obtain, the first procedure is to sub- stantlate the charges. Why is it unfair, why is it unbusinesslike, to do that?"« The chairman—*It looks to me as if this committee is a unique committee in one respect, that it has not a likeness to a court—not a general likeness, more in the likeness of a grand jury in its in- vestigation of any supposed wrong, and that the Yrucvdurc that has grown up in the practlce of the courts is not such a procedure as will affect .the purposes of this investigation. If the committee, any of them, feel differently about the matter, I will be glad to hear from them.” Mr. Lardner—“Mr. Chairman, as an at- torney, 1 know but one way to get at these matters. If there is a charge made let those who make the charge attempt to substantlate it, and then those who deny the charge attempt to refute it. I do am know how to get at it in any other vay. The chairman—*The difficulty about the matter is that we have ‘no specific charge.” Mr. Lardner—“Well, there must plaintiff-and defendant other—or an affirmativ Mr. McEnernéy 1 we if there is a copy of the the committee?"” The chairma be a the e uld Jike to inquire resolution before Would you like “Yes. to_hear { ? Mr. McEnerney—*I will* read {t. The first parag of the preamble, Mr. Chairman, Whereas, Direct charges have been made that improper means have been used to influence the action of the Hon. Howard E. Wright, a mem- ber of and Speaker of the Assembly, in the election of a United States Senator by the Legislature, and whereas, it has been charged that some persons have used and are using il- legal methods to influence the action of mem- bers of the Assembly in said election, and whereas, ete. “Now, it seems to me that_those two paragraphs carry a charge. Theé dlients whom Mr. Pillsbury and myself represent have made the charges.” _The_chairman—"Let me call your atte: tion, Mr. McEnerney, to this propogitio That the preamble to those resolutions speaks about a chnr%&" # Mr. McEnerney—'"Yes, sit.” The chairman —"“But that. no sucn charge, so far: as this committee' may know and so far as the members thereof | may know onally, has been.made to Mr. McEnerney—*“That is true. But the Assembly, in the exercise of that inherent power which it poss to preserve the integrity of the body as such and its members, has taken notice of a public charge of that character, and this com- mittee has met to hear and determine those matters. Now, the charge has been made by certain individuals. Those cer- tain individuals claim to be able to sub- stantiate the charge. This committ¢e does not know by whom the charges can be substantiated; it does not know that they can be substantiated by Mr. Grant.or by Mr. Wright or by Mr. Green or any one else. The charges having beén made by the clients whom we represent, they are the sole owners and in the possession of facts which would enable the proof of those facts to be expeditionsly brought forward. Of course, 1 have no destre to take issue with Mr. Mellick about tite re- sults of interference by attorneys in com- mittees. Portions of these charges, as they are set forth in these resolutions, are specific in character. For centuries the way to prove facts has been for «ne man who makes the allegation to bring for- ward the proof, and that experience in the courts has commended {tself to the judgment of mankind generally. Of course, we have no desire to intrude our- selves into this controversy; but having made the charges, our clients deem it their duty to appear before the committee and to say that they are in possession of the evidence whereby those charges can be proven, and if the committee will give us’'a short time to make a beginning, then if we consume unnecessarily and fruit- lessly the time of the committee you can drive us out of the room.” 1 The chairman—"‘Your suggestion is' a kind one. What does the committee think of it? I understand you, Mr. McEnerney, to propose this line of procedurc: That yourselves, representing The Call and the men who made this charge through The Call, desire to present to this committee evidence in support of the charges that have been talked about in thls’ resolu- tion?"" Mr. McEnerney—'Yes, sir. To proceed just as though it were a civil action, where the burden of proof was upon the. person making the charge, calling what witnesses we please and_ conducting the examination under the directlon of the committee,, Of course, if we waste the time, why, ‘the committee will not toler- ate us. It is undoubtedly true that it needs no formal charge to set an investi- gatlng committee in motion. That has cen repeatedly decided in the courts. The Legislature, for the purpose of .pre- serving, as I sald before, the intef’x of the body and its members, is in" duty bound to taken notice of charges reflect- ing upon either. And it could set in mo- tion, and it has the right in this proceed- ing to set in motion and conduct the in- quiry without the aid or co-operation or assistance of those who clailm to be in possession of the facts, But supposing that we made the charge upon the state- ment made by Mr. Grant—the committee would not know that Mr. Grant had ever made the statement. It would not go upon the particular item of proof we founded the charge against him, and it would go on, it seems to me, consuming more time that would be consumed under the plan as is suggested here.” .. . Mr. Mellick—""But, Mr. McEnerney, your attention is called to the fact that we are not investigating The Call’s charges alone. There are other charges; and if we gturn it over to you to carry out a certain line of procedure that you have in your mind the first thing we know the committee is carried away with your line of action. You will naturally carry your line of. ac-, tion into what you expect to follow in the courts and get your facts established here. Now, I am not particular whether we take Mr. Grant or somebodgelse; take Mr. Leake or _somebody else. But we are not willing that you Call people should come here and outline a policy for us and say whether they shall delay or hurry the proceedings. ~We are here simply as a grand jury, and not as in a civil action. We are here, as Mr. Cosper, the chair- man, says, as a grand jury to investigate these facts, and it is our business to go right after them.” r McEnerney—“Mr. Mellick, 1f ‘Yyou will pardon the “‘:f estion, in the delfb- erations of a grand jury a district attor- ney ‘is ‘present to interrogaté the wit- nesses whlc(h\he wishes to subpena and to bring into’ the grand jury room.' He presumably knows the facts which he de- sires to lay before the grand jury. If he does not know all the facts, there is noth-- ing to prevent the granu jury from goin into a general Investigation or into ag‘ investigation of the subject generally. | 1o; Neither is there any limitation upon the power of the committee here. Granted that this resolution appointed this com- mittee to cover not only cinarges directl made, but charges rumored and whic have no persons to vouch for them. Now You have two classes of charges. If the Deog.le’whfl make one class of charges are here to substantiate those, they might be permitied to substantiate them and then, when they get through, the com- mittee could proceed with the other charges.” i The chairman—“I apprehend fhat Mr. McEnerney is right in this proposition; that the investigation of any charges that he might seek to prove on behaif of The Call would not bar the investigation of any other charges that might be, directly or indirectly, brought before this com- mittee."” Mr. Mellick — “Well, T am not willin that The Call should come in here an establish their facts. We want to estab- lish them, and let us go right after them.” Mr. Bacon—*“You have got to establish théem by The Call's witnesses, Mr. Mel- lick. That is all that Mr. McEnerney is talking about and all I am talking about.” Mr. Mellick—"But he wants his line of witnesses brought up in his way. He wants to present the facts.” Mr: Bacon—*1 do not understand it, mr. Mellick, in that way. Do not understan.i me as being here either to make The Call's fight. 1 do not undestand, Mr. Mel- lick. I do mot think you do understand that whatever the result of this investiga- tion may be it would have any effect whatever upon the libel suit that you say is threatened against The Call, because the evidence that is taken here cannot be used on that case. It is just simply suggesting that we proceed with this in- vestigation in an orderly manner in the hope that we may get through with it and finish it In an orderly manner. There is nothing that can be done in this world— do not care what it is—except some system. You . start in somewhere and_end somewhere. Mr. Grant is here ready to testify at any time. He is anx; ious that this thing Should proceed and’ be over with. He is gerfectly ready an willing to tell all that he knows about this case. But I say that it is not fair to.put Mr. Grant upon the stand in this case at this stage of the proceedings and ask him to testify when there is absolutely no word of any kind before this committee except the statement in the newspaper that anything wrong has been done; and, as Mr. McEnerney has pointed out to you, there is no necessity for a specific charge. It is contained in that article in The Call, and it is warranted by the statement in the first part of the_resolution under which you are acting. Now, we are tak- ing more time over it than there is any necessity for, and T shall say nothing fur- ther about it if I can help it."” The chairman—"‘The Call’s statement relates to a wrong committed by Mr. Grant, and how could the commitfee, as a matter of investigation, get it more quickly and more readily than from a man so willing to testify as Mr. Grant?” Mr. Bacon—"Yes. Then you are pro- ceeding on a very wrong and avery dan- gerous theory, Mr. Chairman. You are taking the newspaper article as an in. dictment against a man, and I do not think there is any member of this Legis- lature that wants to start in with that precedent.” y The chairman—*“Well, I have this to say in reference to that: That this com- mittee, in so far as the chairman is con- cerned—and 1 think it is the sense of the committee also—I am not assuming that any man has committed any wrong. 1 am not assuming that there is any in- dictment of any character whatsoever be- fore this committee.” Mr. Bacon—'Well, then, Mr. Chairman, if you do not assume that any wrong has been done you must assume that no wrong has been done.’’ **Oh, no." Mr. Bacon—"‘Then, why should Mr. Grant be put upon the stand to show that there was no wrong done?”’ The chairman—"‘We are simply to de- termine whether a wrong has been done.” Mr. Mellick—"I am not particular about whether Mr. Grant goes on first or not. 1 am not a stickler for that. But I am a_stickler for this: That this committee ghall do the investigating, and not the attorneys.” Mr. Bacon—"‘Well, I shall let you alons hereafter.” Mr. Sanford—'‘Mr. McEnerney, how lopg will it take to §et Mr. Leake here?” Msr, cEnerney—"1 suppose ‘ten min- utes.” ¢ ‘The ‘Chairman—“Mr. Bacon,: the pro- dure outlined by Mr. McEnerney is sat- tory to you, is it?" ¥ Mr. Bacon—"‘What is that?" The Chairman—“That those who as- sume to know the facts wherein a wrong exists shall first put on their witnesses and establish the wrong.” Mr. Bacon—"Well, that was my _first statement, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. But I don’t want that statement to include this roposition: .That these gentlemen can e given unlimited time to do this. We do, not want- this. investigation to run along here and run along agd run nlon{. And if there is at any time any disposl tion shown to do that, why, we shall ex- pect this committee to protect the gen- tleman that is not charged here by bring- ing this thing to a spee close."” The Chairman—"The determination of that matter must depend upon the devel- npxr;enx; that shall arise in the investi- ation.’ gMn McEnerney—"‘Mr. Chairman, may I ask if the committee has reached any conclusion in the matter?” The Chairman—"Mr, Leake has been sent for.” Mr. McEnerney—'‘Has the committee adopted the suggestion that we made that we shoulg carry forward the investiga- s S “y’h‘e Chairman—*“Not formally adopted Mr. McEnerney—*Mr. Leake is not the |flr9t witness that we desire—if that is The Chairman—‘He {is not?" Mr. McEnerney—‘No, sir. The first wit- ness we desire is Howard E. Wright.” Mr. Mellick—"You see? That is the dickens of it. I move this, Mr. Chairman: ‘Resolved, that this committee be its own investigators, and that attorneys for oth- ers shall only be EPl‘mI!led to the extent of protecting or elplnq their own wit- nesses on the 'stand.’ am not willing that Mr. McEnerney shall ask Mr. Wright a single question, nor Mf. Grant, but I am willing to take The Call witnesses and am wlllln% that Mr. McEnerney shall interfére so far as protecting his own witnesses or suggesting or asking them f"‘ucsllfinfi, and so on, to bring out what they want to be brought out.” Mr. McEnerney—“Well, our chief wit- ness, Mr. Mellick, is Mr. Howard E. ‘Wright.” Mr. Mellick—“Who_are y: Mr. McEnerney—*“You are willing, you say, that The Cail should put on its own witnesses?" Mr. Mellick—*No. I am only willing that you shall interfere for The Call to the extent of protecting your own wit- nesses, to see whether we are asking roper questions under this resolution. ut just as sure as we turn it over to you you will carrev this clear out of the line of the committee, 1 iemal o “In anguage, Mr. Pha.& The E:ll shoul ou?” The Chairman— Mellick is not willin, d have this opportunity to nrove the truth of_the alleged libelous article.’ Mr. Mellick—"No; not at all. Mr. Mc- Enerney, I am willing that you shall ask %uestlons of your own witnesses; that is, he Cail's witnesses.'". Mr. McEnerney—"“Well, that s the oint, Mr. Mellick. I claim that Mr. right is one of our witnesses, and you draw the line at what are our witnesses. Now you know that it:is a very common practice for a man to call his adversary as a witness. Now then, if you allow us to_interrogate the employes of The Call, why do you not allow us to interrogate Mr. Wright? We say: ‘Mr. Wright, where were KO“ on a certain evening? Did you on that evening do so and so? Now, what is the use of the committee spending its time. The committee has not any idea, probably—in legal fiction at least it has not—of the circumstances upon which this charge is predicated.” r. Mellick—"'Yes; you can bring it out by Mr. Leake or Mr. Levings, your own witnesses. You can bring that fact out.” Mr. McEnerney—*It is not for the pur- gue ‘of determining upon what informa- ion The Call' acted, but it i for the pur- Poae of determining whether the cl s true or false. Now then, I assume that if certain facts were );lroved by the testi- mony of Mr." Wright here adverse to’his gusnlon they would be taken for granted y the committee. Then why spend time roaming over transactions with which the committee is not juainted, when I promise you to get to the heart of the matter in fifteen questions?” Mr. Mellick—"“Then’ Mr. Wright's wit- nesses will come in here and oppose your questions.” x Mr. McEnerney—“It has been the rule from time immemorial ‘that the best means for ascért?lnln the truth about a matter s exercised by a wi Pedltlous cross-examination. Now, then, f Mr. Wright swears to a certain state of facts and gives direct answers to direct questions, that is not going to take very . Mellick—‘Yes, presuming that to the case.” . d " Mr. McEnerney—"“Well, {f he does not, the committee will relieve us of our in- quisitorfal endéavor.” Mr. Wright—"‘Mr. Chairman, 1 have just this moment been served with a sub- pena. I heard there was one issued, and am not prepared to go on with the ex- amination at this time; as I have been unable to communicate the fact that I was to appear to-day to my attorney, although I have hunted for him, and I find him engaged in the Supervisors’ chambers and will be there the rest of the day. So, if your Honor please, I should like to he excused from this ex- amination at this time."” _Thpe committee then 73 adjourned until e S THE EVENING SESSION. The committee met at 7:30, pursuant to adjournment, and W. 8. Leake was called to the stand. * Testimony of W. S. Leake. The chairman—*“What is y S t is your business, A—*I am manager of the San Francisco Q—‘‘Are you acquainted with Ulyss & GrAantXJr.?"l lr:( Ulysses 8. —*“Yes, sir; now him by sight, an I know him to speak to him.”) X a4 Q—"*Are you acquainted with the Hon, Howard E. Wright?” A—*"Yes, sir.”. The chairman—*“I hand you for exam- ination a copy of The Call of January the I5th. That is the paper of which you are the manager?” A—"Yes, sir.” Q-Now let me take it, please. Can you tell me who wrote the matter on the first p:kgeuolt that p:mer?"u’l‘3 ; ' am responsi ‘or everythin; that is in the paper of that dats 2 £ —*“And you make this your act, then— the writing of- whatever there is in that paper of that date?” I :;‘;Ies:;xg llhhel n}anager otmthe EBXL and nsible for everything that ‘w fram '&(Ifl et"g of the llne.y' & an 4 at do you mean by bein, ~ sllAle i?r LT y g respon. —*I saw everything that was pub- lished before it left here b, telegr:\ph{]" Q—"“Whatever was put into tnis paper, then, of January 15 was done with your —*‘With my knowledge and approval.” Mr. Mellick—"“You mean what r\)hr“as sent from Sacramento?”’ A.—"1 said from this end of the line.” Q. u assume the responsibility for the headlines, too?” A.—"1 did not write the headlines. Those were written in San Francisco.” The chairman—"Now, the opening state- ment of this paper on that date is that Howari E. right of Berkeley, Speaker of the Assembly, received $1650 from U. S. Grant Jr., through his political manager, Milton &. Green, in return for the promise that he would vote for Grant for United States Senator. ‘Mr. Leake, will you kindly state to the committee what knowl- edge you have as to the truth of that statement '’ A.—‘“That information I received from Mr. Howard E. Wright himself, also Mil- ton S. Green.” Q.—‘‘Bach of them told you that?” A.—"Mr. Green did not tell me the ex- act amount, But he said it was over a tho: nud doilas Howard E. Wright told me it was $1650. .—“Where did you have that conver- sation with’ Mr. Wright?” A.—“Ncw, Mr. Chairman, let me under- stand what the scope of the investigation is. Do you wish me to lead up to how I receivel this information, or do you sim- ply want me to answer ‘ves' or ‘no’ to your questions?” Q.—"'I would like to have the full story; just how you came up to this information, how you received it."” Mr.” McEnerney which led up to The chairman The witness—"I would like to state that, to show you that I came by the informa- tion legitimatety and not confidentially, as might be claimed.” The chairman—'‘Well, that would nat- urally develop, of cours Very well, you may state it, Mr. Leake.” A.—“Mr. Howard E. Wright was elected to the Legislature from Alameda County. T believed that he would be a proper man to be. Speaker of' the Assembly. I made n ‘appointment with him .to meet Mr. S) reu?iehi and, m'iy;selt in my office in San rancisco. We had a meeting. I asked Mr. Wright if he was in any manner.obli- gated to any individual, or any corpora- tion, so that he could not give every one roper representation if he was elected gpea.kar of the Assembly, and he told me that he was as free as the air; wnat he was under no obligations to any one, any corporation, and had made no promises would not make fln’i:." Q.—"“Now }m.rdon me. This was prior to his election?"” A.—'‘As Speaker.” “The circumstances “As Speaker only?” A.—“But gf{er his election to the Leg- islature.” “Can you name the date about?” ~—“I cannot. It was shortly after the election. It was.the day before The Call came out indorsing him for Speaker. That date I cannot give you from mem- ory. Mr. Spreckels was present; heard Mr, Wright's statement. I asked Mr. g s‘;/‘l‘;d(Beacon—”“'ell, now, Mr. ‘Chairman, I think it would not be proper for him to give conversations with Mr. Spreckels. The chairman—"L was going to askif that was In the presence of Mr. Wright. 'A.—"T gald the three of us were in my flice.” pl}‘;l&e‘%!?alrmafi—“l think that would be prn%)_.e Bacon—*'Perfectly proper, so far as ncernes . 1El"l!\‘ecgwltm’.se} T told Mr. Spreckels T would like to be able to have The Call come out and indorse Mr. Wright for Speaker of the Assembly. He said after hearing Mr. Wright's declaration that he was perfectly willing that I should do so. The interview was very short. The next day the paper came out indorsing Mr. Wright for Speaker of the Assembly. I had several conversations with Mr. Wright, took several Tunehes with him at the San Francisco Club, at which there was nothing particular discussed. ~The Call asked no promise of him; indorsed him because they believed him to be the man for the place. After I came to Sac- ramento, after Mr. Wright was elected Speaker of the Assembly, he came to The Call's headquarters on K street, in the Capitol Hotel, at my request, He came there for this reason: Mr. Muenter of San Joaquin had been requested, the same as every other member of the Legislature, by The Call to express their preference either for or against Mr. D. M. Burns. A telegram was sent to all of them. Mr. Muenter came to San Francisco. He did not an- swer the telegram. He told he was op- posed to Mr. Burns and that his people were opposed to him, but he didn't care pa.rtlcu?arly about expressing himself in rint. After some short conversation he hen told me—authorized me to state that his people were opposed to Mr. Burns and under no consideration would he vote for him, After I reached Sacramento some three or four gentlemen from Stockton came_over—the names now I cannot re- call—T know their faces when I see them —called on Mr. Muenter and told him that he had made a great mistake: that they had been informed by Mr. Burns' friends that the administration now would not ive San Joaquin -any patronage. - Mr. uenter brought those gentlemen over to me_and introduced me to them, and we had quite a long conversation in The Call headquarters, and they told me that they had received this information, that Mr, Muenter would not be even given a chn.lnnn.nsm‘g of a committee. I felt an interest in Mr. Muenter; -if he had made a mistake, that I was partially responsi- ble for it. I sent for Mr. Wright and lald these facts before him. I asked as a per- sonal favor—not from The Call, but from myself—that Mr. Muenter be given a chairmanship. Mr. Wright gave me the assurance that'he would receive one. Then the conversation drifted off into the Senatortal fight.” The chairman—‘“Now, the conversation where?”" A.—"In the headquarters in Sacramento here. Mr. W‘Hfht told me_ that he was in a very bad fix. I asked him why.” Q.—“Pardon me. %ha last T have known of your conversation you & were with: Muenter and_these friends in the head- quarters of The Call. Was lgr ‘Wright present then?"” 5 A.—"'No, sir. I afterward sent for M Wright to tell him of this conversation that I had.” % Mr. Mellick—"“Do you remember the date? ' after Mr. —“No, sir. It ,was soon ‘Wright was elected Speaker.” Q.—“The same week?" s .—“Well, T wouldn't like to state that, because there was nothing at that time that would cause a man to set down a date or impress him particularly about it, because at that time it was of ve: little consequence to me, except that wanted to see Mr. Muenter receive fair treatment. ‘I say, after we had talked i over Mr. Muenter's affair Mr. - Wright then told me that he was in pretty bad shape on this Senatorial fight,and I asked him why. He told me that Mr. Burns ex- pected him to vote for him, but he says, 1 cannot da it.' He then told me of his madrrlase relations, his social standing and a number of other things which I would not attempt to give verbatim.” The chairman—‘'“Who were present when you were discussing these things?”’ A.—“Mr. Wright. There were a number of the reporters in the room, but I don't (k}lnk they heard the conversation. We were sitting back there in front of a lit- tle screen back ot the stove.” The chairman—‘'The conversation you are now detailing was between you and Mr. W right, by yourselves?” A.—"Yes, sir. He told me that the last thing when he left home, that his wife, in telling him ‘Good-by,’ had exacted a promise from him that he would not dis- grace the family by voting for Mr. Burns, and—do you wish' me to tell his exact language?” Mr. “ McEnerney—‘Yes, the exact lan- guage.” The chairman—*“That is the only thing to do. A He said, he then told me somewhat of a little dramatic scene that passed be- tween him and his wife, in kissing him good-by. He' said, ‘Don’t' you think that I would be a — of a — if I would break my promise to that little woman?’ I said I think you would.’ "After some little further conversation, why, we separated. After Mr. Wright changed his vote and voted for Burps, Mr. Green—I think this was on Friday— Mr. Bacon—"Of last week?" 5 A.—"Yes, sir. It was right after Mr. Wright changed his vote from Mr. Bulla to Mr. Burns. The Call came out with a lot of interviews with Berkeley people, and it was on_that day, 1 think it was Friday, I met Mr. Green and we walked down to the Del Pasa saloon. I invited Mr. Green to participate in a little drink, and I heard no objections. During that conversation Mr. Green said - to me: ‘Leake, you have always thought Wright was your friend?" I said ‘Yes, I have al- ways thought so, and I have no reason to doubt it.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘he never was your friend.’ I said, ‘Why so?" Well,’ he said, ‘he always betrayed everything that you said to him. He brought to us every conversation that took place in the Burns’ headquarters.’” He then said: ‘I can tell you exactly what Mr. Wright said to-you the day you sent for him in the presence of: Mr.” Spreckels when The Call decided to come out andindorse him.’ I asked him to repeat it, and as near as I can remem- ber the conversation he repeated it e: actly. He said, ‘You had several lunch with Mr. Wright in the San Francisco Club?’ I said, ‘Yes,’ and he said, ‘He re- ported to us everything that you said, as he also did to Mr. Burns.' Now,’ he sas. “Mr. Wright is the biggest_confi- derfee operating — — — — I_ever saw! 1 said, * 507 ‘Well, he says, - ‘how much money _did he get out of Mr. Spreckels?” I said ‘He didn’t get a cent. Now,' I said, wiil take that back. I don't know whet er Mr. Spreckels helped him individu- ally or not, but I can only speak for The Call. He asked for nothing and we of- fered him nothing. If ~Mr. Spreckels helped him at all he helped him individ- ually, and he didn’t happen to take me into his confidence. " he sairl_, ‘he got into us pretty well.” I said, ‘How is that?" Well, he then went ahead and told me about Mr. Wright coming over to their ‘Now, this is still in the A—*In the Del Paso saloon. He told me about Mr. Wright coming over to their office. Now, I don’t know where the office is. He didn’t tell me; I didn't ask him. Mr. Green was temporarily ab- sent. When he got back, either Mr. Grant or Mr. Brown—I cannot recall, because Mr. Green’s voice is not quite as loud as some people speak, and 1 am not sure whether he said Grant or Brown, because we were standing up in front of a bar, El Paso saloon? and our conversation was rather low; but my understanding was that it was Mr. Grant who was in the office when Mr. Green returned, and he said that Mr. ‘Wright was in_an ante-room, or an ad- {:)iml'g room; that he had been there and ad a talk with him, and assured him that he was for him for United States Senator, but he needed -a little as: ance in his election, and he said: ‘I tojd him that when ypu are around yod would at~ tend to him.” Mr. Green sa.u_that when he went into the room where Mr. Wright was, before he could speak to him, Mr. ‘Wright said: ‘Well, Mr. Green, you have taken an awful load off my mind. I have met Mr. Grant and I have had a little talk with him. I think very favorably of him, and I am for him for United States Senator, and I am awful glad that you are going to render me this assistance.’ He taold me that Mr. Wright told him that a man by.the name of Pringle—now, at that time I did not know who Pringle was, though-I have since learned who he was, and about him. didn’t know the man at all; didn’t know that he was a candi- date for any office, or had ever held of- fice; he said Mr. Pringle, ‘I have got to gwe him $200 to get him out of this Bacon—Who said this?” A.—“Green. Green sald that Wright told him that he wanted $200 to get him out of this fight.” i e Mr. Bacon—"I understand. A.—'Now, Mr, Green told me at the same time that he gave him other money. He did not -mention the amount; the only amount he, mentioned in this particular connection was $200 he was to pay Pringle. He sald, ‘I 'gave him the money and he afterward came back and got $400 more.’ Then he told me about him writing a letter to him from the Sutter Club on the letterhead of the Sutter Club, telling him that he was in financial ‘distress or words to that effect—and wanting him to ay a bill or a note—something of the ind. Mr. Mellick—"‘Mr. Green? He wanted Green to pay it?7" The witness—“Green Is talking to me now—or I am trying to relate his con- versation _as it took place. He said, ‘T telephoned to the man and got him over and took his receipt for the money in Wright's name,’ and he says, ‘I have it to-day.”” ‘Now,’ he says, ‘that is the kind of a duffer he is, and,’ he says, ‘be is al- ways telling me he is for Granf; he is for Grant all the time.' The conversa- tion lasted quite a little while. Probably there was some repetition in the matter, I went immediately over to The Call headquarters, called. Mr. Leyvings and Mr. Hugh Burke in, and I told him what Mr. Green had told me in this connection. A short time after that—well, later in the night—Mr. Burke came over from tha Golden Eagle Hotel, called me off to one side, and he sald—" Mr. Bacon—'‘Now, we object to what Mr. Burke said. The chairman—'‘Yes. ploye of The Call The witness—Yes.” Mr. McEnerney—"“He carried the mes- Is he an em- sa_fe?" 4 he witness—*“I am trying te tell you that he carried the message from Mr. Wright to. me, from the hotel, that he was going to sée me.’” The chairman—"“You are not able to de- tail a conversation between Mr. Burke and yourself?” A.—"No,.sir. I was oing to detall enough to tell you that iflr. A’VV\'ight sent for me to come over there; that he was going to rule us off the floor.” The chairman—"That {s all, that is; at present.” Mn Bacon—*“That is hearsay."” Mr. Mellick—“I do not think Mr. Bacon oufiht to interpose here.” r. Bacon—"All right, Mr. Mellick, I won't interpose.’” Mr, Mellick—“Let him tell his story. We are not sitting here as attorneys.” 4 ‘The witness—“I am not here as a prose- cuting_witness. I am here simply to tell what I know. If you want to hear it T' will tell it freely. Mr. Burke cameé over and told me that he had just had a con- versatign with Mr. Wright and Mr, ‘Wright said that unless The Call changed its attitude toward the members of the Legislature The Call and {ts employes would be ruled off the floor; and, he said, ‘He wants to see you, and he will give Kou an hour—or. remain over there an lour—to have a talk with you. ‘Well,' I said, ‘he won't have to remain but a min- ute to see me.’ And I stopped my work and went over." The_ chairman — “Went over to what place?” A.—"“To_the Golden Eagle Hotel. Mr. Wright, I believe, was playing billlards or was engaged with some gentleman in the billlard room. I called him in, and we again had that usual ém-oposmon of tak- ing a drink and no objéctions, and we had it. Mr. Wright said _that he would like {6 see me alone. He then took me through the billiard-room into a little re- ception room or card room, and sat down; and he told me that the indignation in the Assembly’ was such that he could hardly control it any longer. He said that the Grant men and the Bulla meén and the Burns men and the different factions had been to him, and the indignation was such that he would have to rule the paper off the floor unless it changed its course. ‘Un= I came and charged you with back to that? less you give me some assurance it will stop _the vilification of -the members’ of the. Legislature I wiil have to rule it off the floor.' 'He says: ‘I do not want to do this.. I have fought against it on accou of my frieniship with you.’ I said: ‘Now, Wright, don't let yvour friendship intertere with ‘your daty at all, because it cuts no figure about that. 1 simply represent the paper, and if you feel it your duty to do it, rule them off,’ He says: ‘I will have to do it ‘New, I sa if you do, you can expect there will be some fun.’ 'L sa “There has been a good deal of tafk around "here about certain members hav- ing their expeases paid for election an. other things, asd I Said ‘I will get hold of it and publish the whole thing.’ - He sald, ‘Have you heard about a certain member receiving money? I said, ‘Yes. He said, ‘Hav d about a’ certain other, member?~ 1 said, ‘I have. “a cer- tain other member The chairman— Did he name those you name them?" uld prefer not to. because I haven't any proof that they got a cent— at least some of tt and I don’t think their names in Mr. Mellick— nocence, I think. ; The witness—"1 still insist that I ought not to answer the question; but I am t ing you the conversation. I haven't ar proof in connection with some of t and I.don't think it is treating them to have their names appear in print in that connection their in- Mr. Robert Devlin—"May 1 ask a question, Mr. Chairmar re you in- vestigating charges outside the article in , that is, that refers to Mr. s, ing ft all. That is the 8 lution; ‘it is so construed by tae commit- tee.” Mr. Mellick—"‘T think that ever: ought to come out. I think he ¢ state 1t. * I don’t think . ere is a The witness— Would you have any ob- jection to my speaking to my attorney quietly?” ; Mr. McEnerney—"I think it is your duty to give it, Mr. Leake.” The witness—"1 wish it understood now that I don't think I ought to teil i Mr. - Mellick—"You_understand, ~Mr. Leake, that my understanding of this commitfee is that anv time we ask ‘a question, or insist o a t.ing, vou of course have a perfect right to talk with your attorney and have him interpose an objection.” The witness—*It is understood that I am to answer the question?"” The chairman—*1 think proper rulin ‘The witne: “He asked me if I heard about the money Mr. Cutter had received. I said I had. ‘Have you heard about the money- that Mr. Raw received? " ir. Who?" A—“Mr. Raw. vou neard about th on received? I ‘Yes, and I have that yeu received. Q—*Proceed,” i A—"“Well, at that time he was consid- erably agitated. ‘Well,’ he said, ‘I will that is the I said, ‘T have.’ ‘Have money that Mr. Jil- aid, ‘I have.” 1 said: rd about the money admit that 1 did receive, it, but I'am go- ing to pay it back.’ ‘Well' I said, ‘T think you would foolish to do that’ ~‘Wellf he said, ‘I think I ought to do that’ He said: ‘This decision now in the Supreme Court of the United States has cleared this Blythe estate up so that I am to receive $7800 from the estate, and I am going to pay’ Mr. Grant back. ‘I promised to vote for 'him; I v intended to vote for him, but aid, ‘Conditions and circumstances ve arisen so that I cannet, and I think it is nothing but hc ble that I should return that money ‘Well,! ‘I said, ‘Howard, you made a fool of yourself writing that letter from the Sutter Club.” I said, ‘Do you know that Mr. Green has got that letter and has got the receipt for the money? ‘Yes,' he said, ‘T know that, but I was in hard straits. and -I needed the money.’ He said that part of it. I said, ‘That is all right” He said, T intend to pay it back.’ I said, ‘Have you paid it back? He sald, ‘I have not, but T am going to pay it back. I expect todgct this munizy now in a few day: and as soon as o I am going to pay it back.' ' I'said, ‘Tt appears logme ?m}l are making a big mistake.’ He took me to task sbout these articles’ from Berke- ley and the‘roast’ He was getting for voting for Mr. Burns. I tnen related to, him the conversation we had over there in front of the screen in my headquarters: I called his attention to the fact about the promise he -had made to his wife and. about his asking me what I thought he would be if he violated his pledge. I said to him: ‘Mr. Wright, I haven’t changed my mind oné Yanlcle on that since’ He asked me if was_going to publish it that night. I told him was not. H; asked: what the paper was going to sa about him to-morrow. I said the pape was going to make some severe charges against him, but it would not have that. After some’ little talk we separated. I went over and told Mr. Levings and Mr. Burke of the conversation I had with him. They insisted upon running it that morn- ing." T told them I didn’t want to, as Mr. Wright-had threatened to rule us off the floor, and I proposed-to come out to-mor- row and challenge him to do so. Sat- urday morning we did. On Saturday morning I then detafled Mr. Burke to go and interview these different parties, After he had interviewed them—talked with them.” Mr. Mellick—‘What different parties?'" AZMr. Wright and Mr, Green. after he had seen Mr. Green, Mr. Green came over to my office at the headquarters, and asked me if I was going to publish’ this matter, and I told him that I was. He says, ‘it is all true, but I think you are making a mistake in doing it.’ He said, ‘You are trying to beat Mr. Burns, are you mot? I 'said, ‘Yes, the papér is trying to beat Mr. Burns.’ ‘Well,’ he said, ‘thig will not hurt Mr. Burns any. He says ‘The best thing you can do, and I will su advise you, is to hold this as a club over Mr. Wright’s head to keep him from -rul- ing you off the floor of the Assembly.’ We were sitting on a typewriter desk right next to the door when this conversation took place. This was on Saturday night, Then Mr. Wright sent for mie. 1 went over to the Golden Eagle Hotel and met him' about in the same place 1 had met him the night before. He said he wanicu to see me privately, and we went right into the same room, and he locked tue door: He says, ‘What dges this mean? Hugh Burke came and told me he knew all about the conversation we had last night’ By the way, I, have omitted ans thing that I wish to interject in my tallk with>Mr. Wright the first night. told him that he must not ask any favors of me, because 1 was not in a sition to grant them. This was the night beore.s The chairman—“At what place?"” A.—“In this little room. I omitted this juat a !‘I‘t;]latwhne agéx'i' o .—“What oceurred in the room at Golden Eagle?” e A.—‘The reason that I want to get that in, it leads ui to our conversation Satur- day night. That he must not ask any fa-- vors of me, because I was not in a posi- tion to grant them; that the paper.had this information and that I could not suppress that, and would not. Now, when" we went in this room Saturday night he. locked the door. He says: ‘Laok here, what does this mean? Hugh Burke told me about our conversation last night." I said, ‘That is true.’ He said, ‘I was talking to you like a brother.’ I then called his attention to what I had told him the night before—that he must not ask any favors, that he was not talking to me in a friendly way; that I had the in- formation myself. I said: ‘You did not give me this information. You sent for me; threatened to put me off the floar. these thi and you made the admission. Sg.' Ihs‘;f; ‘you cannot talk about any confidential relations on that proposition.’ I have omitted two other points in our first con- versation.” s The chairman—“You may recall them.” The witness—"“Will you permit me to go My attention has just baen called to it. In this conversation whers he told me he wanted this money to pay Pringle and others I said: ‘Wright, you went over to Mr. Herrin and demanded of Mr. Herrin, or requested of Mr. Her- rin, $1200; and in glving the account of what you wanted this money for yvou re- lated one item that you also gave to Mr. Green, and that was the $200 that you wanted to pay Pringle.’ Mr. Wright said, ‘T did not do that, Sam. I did get the money from Mr. Grant, but I will pledge ' ou my word and honor that I did not get t from Mr. Herrin.’ Now, also, at the first night there he told me, he Suig: ‘Now, you want to beat Burns. I don't belleve Burns can win this fight’ and I said, “Well, why don’t you pull him out of it? He said, ‘I think I can do dt, and will work on those lines.' Now, I will get back to our last conversation, Saturday night. He said, ‘You réemember we talked about my pulling Burns out of the fight? I said, ‘Yes.' He said, ‘I was just ready - to report to you the ~ progress I was making when Burke came to see