Omaha Daily Bee Newspaper, January 23, 1877, Page 8

under the ruling. Objected to asi- competent ; objection sustained Gen. Estabrook. Have you heard the testimony of Mr. Howe? A. 1 have. Q. Will you state what conve: tion occurred on the ocession - THE. OMAHA BEE| And His Legislative Investiga- tion, ferred to? A. Yessir. Mr. Thurs- ion. t u and mysclf were playing a vame | — o billiargs and Mr. Howe end Mr. win were sitting by the side of & 1 Ule talking. When Mr. Thurston vasn't playing—when it was my- | iring, he would step over and tatk | with Mr. Howe and Mr. Cowmn Setl: 1. Cole, Cicero L. Bristol, Jas. , W\ jien he came back to the table, 1 5 ndent | ™ narked that Mr. Cowin had M: I Poxii, Gnd Fap Rowres Eiowe, Mr. Weaver and otbers cou- | ou the Stand. ted with the Kearney trial, in & preity tight pisde—that he thought itey wers where they would huve ‘L “upport tum for Congrese. hir. “urston said he believed that was tiue; Mr. Howe Leing present, was | The Remainder of the Testimony | TUp to Date. Jlowe’s Duplicity Ex- posed. < tte causeof the conversation. 1am See ‘s Proceedings. 4 n i f ¥ | cortain 1 mentioned Mr. Howe's | Lineoln, Neb. Jaouary, 3, 1877.— | yame, The committes met xt 9:30a . Cross examinalion: 1 all the members present, Mr. Howe and bis comsel, and Mr. Rosewatet aud his Gen suggested the propriety of sending a subpeeus for Mr. Lett of Brownville, to which the chnirman responded thata sub- poepa would be sent. Gen. Estabrook. 1 now propose to ask Mr. Rosewater to proceed with the uarrative he was giving yesterdsy when interrupted by the adjournment. Mr. Thureton. We object to hls givivg £aat testimony to-d Gen. Estabrook. 1 wish (6 bave him state what Mr. Cowio, the at- torney for Mr, Howe in this case, caid to these seversl witnesses at different fimes, at different places, and under differont circumstances, what Mr. Howe tsid in regard (o this matter. The Chairman: It was decided ¥, 1 tbink, that tne com- Tmittee would not hear that now. Mr. Thuston. It seems to me that there a desire here to iove these wilnesses testify before Mr. Cowin comes here and testifies. | i want Mr. Cowin 1o be here and Jook theee witnesses in the Tace when they testify. The Chairmau. The commitee is anxions to got fhis testimony from Mr. Cowin, Gen. Estabrook. 'The committee will continue to bear in mind that it ia not alone whether Mr. Howe is cailty, but the question is whether Mr. Rosewater, as the publisher of 4 paper, has uot had resson to be- | lieve tlils was true, coming from the source it did. There is more than one interest to be subserved here by this commitiee, aud to be investi- gated by them. The Chairman. The commitiee i of the opinion thist that testimony would not be proper to introduce— what somebody efse Las eaid. If that somebody can be put upon the stand, we prefer to do it. Gen. Fstsbrook. I think, when the rigid rules of Iaw zre enforced, itiss proper rulmg, vut 1 think this is the first time, that 1 ever | henrd of su investigation where the rigid rules of law were observed. 1 will ask Mr. Thurston to be sworn. JINO. M. THURSTON, called on the pait of the prosccution being duly eworn, testifies gs fol- lows: Gen. Estavrook. Will you stare, whether you was two years agoa | A T member of the legislaturc? was, sir. Q. Mr. Howe was a fellow men- | ber of the seme bod sir, the same house. Q. You heard the testimony of Mr. Howe, in regard to a libe! at Kearney? A. I did, sir. Q_Were you one of the counsel ? A Twas Q. You were well acquainted with e, the proceeding, that transpired in | that legislative body two years ago? A. Bowewhat, yes. Q. You were acqusinted with the proceedings that transpired m re- gard to the removal of the capital ? A. Verylittle; I never was in a capital removal caucus, and never took part in that quest only this: T told the gentlemen who fav- ored capital removal that any time }hey‘lgrced on a bill I would vote or it. Q. From your knowledge of that traneaction, state to the committee whether you knew of Mr. Howe takmg mobey for hisvote. A. T don’t know of any person taking money for Lis vote. Q. For his vote upou that subject orany other? A. No, sir. Q Never? A. Never. . Have you ever stated that you knew he had sold his vote for mon- ey? A Ibavenot, sir. Q. Tono person? A. To no per- son. Q. Did you ever state to any per- son that he was “the damuedest scoundrel in Nebraska,” and (hat you knew of one instance where he sold his vote for $106? A. No, sir. Q. Didn’t yousay that, sir, to Mr. Cicero L. Bristol? * A. No, si Q. Didn’t you say that, or some- thing equivalent to that, at Lincoln aud Omaba both? A. No, sir. Q“sm that, nor its equivalent? 0, sir, Q. Didn’t you state m the billiard eom of the Grand Central to some ©one sometning to the effect y 1 be- lieved the charges made against Mr. Howe in regard to this Nenatorial matter? A. Who to? Q Did you state it to anyl y? AhNtnb.n:r, Enoveatior ey | . Did you ever sy any s thing to Seth Cole? A.)’Ku,ynir.lch stance, sir—you were playing bil- Hards with Reth Cole—where & con. ‘versation of that kina ? opng came up? A. Q. Didn't you say y ieve y_you believed they had bim? A. No, ar. T will tell you Just what I did aay. Mr. Qole told me John C. Cowin told 'm he found out enough up there at Kearney; that he had got Weav. er and those fellers where they would have to suppart him for Co ges, T told hi ved oo o il him that T believed Q. Didn’t you understand bim to include Mr. Howe? . N, aur canse Mr. Howe was not n mersier of the Republican parly. Q. Was not Mr. Howe at that time in the billiard room himeelt aud was he not the cause of this conversation ; was it not s pres. ence, in fact, that prompted the Conversation? A, I don’t know; it may have bees Colyrgmve been the cause in Mr. A Doty No, sir; M, Mr. Howe. He said Mr. Cowin sai ::ehmm Weaver and t.ho-Te‘l‘! 'z:-cwhen they would support him wtateg Zes In regand to what I T ed to Mr. Bristol, T will say that ated to him and olhers that 1 1ad heard rom Cmarks agaj Uersof the legisiatare. - u know that it was? b SE'H coLg, 10 the part of the proseon o tostified lflull u»”" = 2 " Estabrook. [ wij) a<k him Liser he has 1 !;;-n with Geny. (o oad any convers Jowin in regard ¢ agalost Mr. Howe. T Don’t you recollect wn in- | r. Cole didn’t mention | + Matter of form, of pourse Mr. Thurston. )ou are sure you meutioned Mr. Howe's nama? A, | Yes, sir. Q. Did 1 suy a word about Mr. | Howe? A. 1 dow’t know as youdid; but you auswered generally in re | gard to the whole partv. You said, vou “guessed that was true,” and | that apphed to the whole party. Mr. Toummel. What time was this? A, Just before the State Con- | vention. | Mr. Thurston. Did 1 state at that | | conversation thut 1 knew anything wtit? A. | think after that ! told you what Mr. Cowin kad told me reiating to Mr. Howe, and the other parties 2t the Kearney trial, and you Said then that it was true. 2. You are mistaken about thit, sir? A. I may be mistaken, but T think I told you the conversation I | bad with Mr. Cowin, and you told me 1t Was true, 3 Q You tola me Mr. Cowin told vou he had got Weaver and those | fellows where they would hup;: t (him? A. T think I spoke Mr. | Howe's name first, becalise bis be- | | ing present wae the subject of cr versation. Q. Prin't you know Mr. Howe wr not s member of the Republi- | wir; but 1 | | | | ! do with the Republican party. Q. Didn’tyou kiow then that Mr. | Howe would not be a delegate to | the Biats Convention? A No, sir; | 1t was thougbt then that Mr. Howe would be a delegate to the Btat | Convention. Q. Wasn’t the conversation on | the subject of thestrength Mr. Cow- | in wonld have in the State Conven- tion? A. Yes, sir; andat thal time | we thought Mr. Howe would be a | delegate to the State Convention. | CICERO L BRISTOL, (ealled on tue part of the prosecu- | tion, being duly sworn, testified as follows : Gen. Estabrook. I will ask you if you ever had any conversation th Mr. Cowin upon the subject of | | the charge that Mr. Patrick bad put | mone 1to the hands of Mr. Howe for_election purposes? A. T have | had such & conversation. | Q Stateif more than once. A. Weil, 1 have had one general con- | versation, and have referred to 1t two oF (hree times—bave referred to the mater. Q. Did he make any positive statements in regard to it eitber one | way or the other, or was it & mere | desultory conversation ? | Ohjecied to as incompetent; ob- | jection overuled. sir, he did | eut. A. Well, T dow't know that he did more (han once. He made positive statements [ cuce and then afterwards referred to the mstter. Q. Was there more than yourself A. Nosir, only myself and bim present. | Q State whether or not you have ever had any eonversation with Mr. Thurston in regard to the course | of Mr. Howe, as a member of the legisiature, and it s, state { what that conversation was? | | A Yes, sir; I hafl 2 conversation | with Mr. § hurston during the leg- islative session of {wo years ago 1 don’t remember just what brought 1t up, but 1 said something to the effect that I didn’t believe what was suid about Mr. Howe. Mr. Thurs. ton told me it was true; that he was ove of the “dsmuest scoundrels in Nebraska,” and that he knew of | one unimportant matter where he took §100 for his vote. Q That was at Lincoln ? A, Yes, sir. Q State whether you had any other conyersation 02 the same sub- ject? A. He repeated the sume thing at Omaba. Q. That is his vote in the legisla- ture? A. Yessir Q. Did he specify upon what subject the vote was? A. Nosir. I dido’t ask him. I was entirely friendly to Mr. Howe mysell and didn’t ask him. Cross examination by Mr. Thurs ton Q. Where we at tie time of that that conyersation down in this city? | A. T think walkingalong the street; 1 am certain about that. Q. How did that conversaticn come up? A. That I don’t remern- ber. There were remarks around { about buying and selling votes, and possible we were talking about these remarke. Q. 1id 1 tell you auything more, { in any of these conversations, than that T ind beard these things from other parties? A. Noj; you used almost the exact words I have given, as near as I can remember. | You stated that you knew. Fdidu’t ask whether you had seen this. It was simply an assertion. Q You pursued it no further at | the time? ~ A. No, sir. | Q And Isaid I knew Mr. Howe | had recetved $100 for his vote? A. | | The way 1 understood it was you | knew of one case, a very unimport- | ant litde maiter, where he received | $100 for his vote. | Q I dido’t tell you what that | matter was? A, I didn’t ask you. Q. What office do you hold under the government ? A. Pension agent. Q Appointed through the in- fluenceof Mr. Hitchcock? A. Yes, | sir, and Mr. Crounee Gen Estabrook. I presume tbe commiitee think this as important | as the hearsay of our witneeses, and | moreso? | Mr. Thurston. Were you down | bere duriug the Senatorial election | A. Yes, sir. Q. Was working against Mr. | Hitcheock? A No, sir; 1 told Mr. | Hitcheock what I would do. | Q. What did_you tell him you would do? A. I told him I would support Gen. Thayer for the Sen- ate, ; Q_You were down here, though ? A. Yes, sir; but I was sick. The Chairman. Does he bave ref- crence to this last menatorial cone test? A. Yes, sir. sr. Thurston. You expect to re- tain your position under the present admivistration? A. No, =ir; I do uot. @Gen Estaurook. You said ~you were favorable to Mr. Howe? " A. Yen, sir. I had & sympathy for Mr. towe in his contest out in Wyo- ming. He was a friend of General Thayer, and I had & sympathy for him before { ever saw bim T said 1 xugw he was ip full sympathy | the senatoriat fight was this? i ] with Gen. Tha er, and this called | out the remark from Mr. Thurston. | My THUreteh, Wasa’t that in re- lator © the Neuatorial c -1 WwRIN't 1t just after Mr. s | clection ? " A. Yes, sir. Q And when we were all boiling over at each other ? A. Yes, f Q. Aud when we who w porting Mr. Thayer were sgainst the Psddock m Dundy men, snd— A Yes, B, | we wire. i Gen. Estabreo. Ars you speak s an excuse for tel Thurston—No, stated that I might have saud that | the fellers. 10 went for Mr. Pad- of damned scoun- ertainly thought so theu; witness). Don’t you know t a single bill had passed then in the legislature? A. No, sir, Idonw't. ¥ would like to add thut 1 | am here 2s an unwilling witness; 1 | am ot here in the interest of any body, but I am friendly to M Howe Mr. Thummel—How soon alter A Well, ¥ think it was probably with- | i week. It was very goon after; T think it wassoon afrer, because 1 don’t think I rediained here long. Mr, Thirston. 1t was before you 1t home—right after the senator election? A. Yessir. Itk immediately after. i Gen Estabrook. How many days if er the enminencement of the le- giviature did (he senatorial contes ce? Some two days wasn’t ! A No, eir, I think t=4 O bf- | it* toen days. S84 COLE, BECALLED, i the prosecution testified as fol we { . Estabrook. Htate, whether | u eyer had any conversation with seph Barker, fu relation to the expenditure of money for Mr. Pat- Tick Yes, sir Q e what that conversation was? Oblected to as incompetent by Mr., Thurs‘on. The witness. T will say it was uot directly in regard (o (he expendi- ture of money. Gen. Estabrook. Well, iu relation to the means employed to elect Mr. Patrick ? Mr. Thurston. Did you Lave any couversatiou with Mr. Pairiek that referred to Mr idowe? A. Yes el The Chairman. Now you wsnt to have him stale whai Bir. Barker told bim. Gen. Estabrook. Yes sir. Mr. Thurston. [ object to that. ar. Barker has bgen here and tes- titied and he wasn’tasked with re- gard to that matter. After some consultation on the part of the committee the chairman unnounced that the testimony would not be received Gen. Estabrook. The committee did not object to tesiimony as to what Mr. Thurston said, which was of the same character, Mr. Thurston. No, sir; becase T was willing; 1 will make this state ment: My attention was not called by Gen. Estabrook toany particular time that I bad a conversation with Mr. Bristol; tut 1 wili say this, that at that time & had an opinion in my mind thata great many of the men that went over to Paddock were scoundrels, but I didu’t express an opinion as to Mr. Howe receiving money for lis vote, for the very good reason that I'didu’t kuow of any such thing. Gien, Estabrook. Had Mr. Howe goue over, was be one that incurred your displeasure? Mr Thur-ton. Yes, sir; he bad gone over and voted for Mr. Pad dock. Q Was be origmally » Thayer wan? A. No, sir. Q That is the reason whby you stuted a falsenood, if you did state i? A, Ididn’tsay so. Q Then wny mention it at all? A 1 may bave suid that of Howe, or any oue else that voled for Pad- dock, @ Do you recollect Mr. Bristol re markiog that be believed Mr. How 1o be an honest man? A. No, sur: 1 never made any such statement Mr. Bristol, because 1 never kuew any such transaction, and would not have stated it without knov i ig it Mr. Bristol. 1 would like to make one correction. When I said I was in full sympatiby with Mr. Howe in the sentorial election, I meant I was in sympathy 1 his support of Mr. Thayer; not in support of Mr. Parrick. JAMES R PORTER, called on the part of the prosecu- tion, testified as follows : (Gen. Estabrook. Tell the commit- tee whether you have ever had any conversation with Mr. Howe in re- lation to the charge that money was used to secure Mr. Patrick’s election > A. No, sir, I have not. Q Hav had suy conversa- tion with him in mlation to his course in tbat transaction? A. I d bad a little conversation with him one day in regard to his action in this Senatorial contest just gone by. Mr. Thurston. I object to that for the reason that 1t has Lothing to do with this matter. The Chairman. The committee will admit the testimony. Gen. Estabrook. Will you state, what conversation you have had, with time, pluce audocen? A. A few minutes before the final ballot in this last sevatorial contest, I eaw Mr. Howe in the back room of the auditor’s office. I went and spoke 10 him in regard to his voting .or senator Hitcheock, and told him, I didn’t want him to vote for bim. | He used some rather violent lan- gusge to me, and I remarked to m “this thing is getting badly mixed up,” He dammed me, and said that was mwy fault, I said thau so far as that was concerned he bad struck a man now thst could talk; I told him that T didn’t want him to yote for Sena- tor Hitchcock; that Mr. Barker was bere, and could go on the stand; that Mr. Lett was bere, Dr. Miller not far off, and that Pafrick could be got here. I told him it would make it very unpleasfnt for him to vote for Mr. Hitcheock. He went right out of the office then, and 1 waited a little while for bum' to come back, but he didn’t come back at all. This wasjust a few minutes before he vote was tsken; there was quite a husiling around and caucussing in the rooms below. Q Was thatthe wholeot the con. versation? A. T wentout and stood at the door and waited for him to come in, but he didn’t come in again. 1 remarked as ne went out to remember what I said was meant. | Q. He ceased to “bull-doze?” A. | The violent language that was used in the first place wes all that was ased. There was several others in the room. 1 dow’t remember who they were. We went into one cor- ner of the room, aud I presumed the conversation would be private, bt Mr. Howe talked very lond sad mode it public Q. Did yon ever have any con- versation with Mr. Barker in regard to the expeuditure of money for the election of Mr. Patrick, in which Mr. Howe's name was mentioned ss Leing connected with it? A. I have. Q. I will ask you where, when and what that conversation was? Objected fo by Mr. Thurston 88 incompetrnt Objection sustained. Cross ezaminatio., by Mr. Thors- ton? 2 Q ‘This wae just be%oie the fuel ot had the conver- | | 1 o'clock ballo sation with M Howe? A VYes, ar. apoke of th response ¥ 1 bave spoken ye Q. When you spoke of Barker l-puufl A. oo, sir; he made no renpense. Q. Then on that subject you | slone, and not Mr. Howe, spoke? A. Yes, sir. Q Did he tell you at that time who he would vote for? A. No, sif, Q. idn’t you know at that time it was entirely unknown, before the vote was taken, that in ihe opposi- tion ranks they had agreed to go over aud elect Baunders? A. It is safe to say in a senatorial contest | that iheraare a great many thiogs that are “‘uuknown’—there sre more unknown quantities than are knoww, probably. %2 Do you know that at half past 10 o'clock on that day Mr. Howe agreed 1n the presence of Governor Bauuders, Capt Ashley, Jim Laird and Judge Weaver that after the first ballot to be takeu that day he would 0 for Governer Saunders for sena- tor? a. I know nothing of it. The Chalrman. What did you wiean by the statement made in'the twom that Mr. Barker, Mr. Patrick 4nd some other persons were near ? A. I remarked at the same time | that it would be worse than the Kearney lawsuit. Gen Kstabrook. You and him to- gether understood what it meant? A. Yes,gir. Q Now state to the committee just what it did mean? A. It meant in regard to the money transactions of the Senatorial contest of two years ago. ‘The Chairmau. Do you know anything of those money transac tions? A. No, sir. Mr. Thurston. You was trying to oull doze him, wasn't you, Jim? A I don’t know. The committee ssked that question and I answer- it Q You was trying to influence him to prevent him voting for Hitcheock? A That was our aim, yes, sir. Mr. Hoit. Do you know, that these men did know anythiny about a money, transaction in that election? A f I did know, J would know of my own knowledge I make an ac-ount of 5o many kegs of beer sold. They go out of my brewery, but I don’t see any oue of them go out, and I don’t swear that a single onedid go out, but I know it a8 I do a great many tnings Gen. Fatabrook. I will press the question w little as to what ne does know about what these gen- tlemen knew and how he knows it A. 8ir. Barkor told me of it himsel?. Mr. Thurston. That the commit- the bas ruled out. CHURCH HuWE called oi the part of the respond. ent, 1o objection being made by coutisel for the prosecution, testified 2 follows: Mr. Thurston—1 will ask you what_conversation ycu had with Mr. Porter ou that day he speaksof; what time it was, and were it was ? A. Mr. Porter came into the audi- tor’s office, as he says, and asked me 111 was gomng to vote for Hitchcock. 1 didn’t make any reply. He called me off, as he says, to one side, and 1 spoke up loud and told him 1t was uoue of his business, and nobody else’s business; that T was taking care of mysel’. He then used some threatening lauguage; said 1 bad better look out for myself in regard to the election of two years ago. Gen. Estabrook. After that, didn’t vou dry up httlé--after he men tioned these matters? A. Tt aidn't scare me or make any difference in my action in the Senatorial fight; this wos just before (he final ballot was taken. Mr. Thurston. 1 will ask you whether or not you had an agree- mient with Gov. Saunders, Captain Ashby, Jim Laird and Judze Wea- ver as to what your course would 22 A I did, sir; these getle men came to the room of the Tude- peind.nie, the Auditor’s office, and I then and there made an_agreement with them afier voting _once for Mr. Hitcheock 1o vote for Gov. Baunders, and after- wards 1 went into the council room of the supreme judges room, when there was present Judge Lak >, Judge Maxwell, and Gov. Saunders, and there I had auother falk with Gov. Ssunders, and Judge Lake came up and cougratulated me about going over and voling for Gov. Saunders This was about 12 o'clock. It was the understanding I was to vote once for Mr. Hitcheock, Mr. Holt. What time & day was this you eay you made this agree- ment? A. At balf-past ten. 1 never agreed to vote for Mr. Hitch- cock but once, but T was partially in Mr. Hitcheock's Interest after that time, Mr. Thurston. Wasn't it deemed necessary by those gentieman who had agréed to support Gov. Saun- ders on the second ballot that they should abstain from making it known toth by word and action and they did agree to do so? A. Yessir. Q. Wasn't it conidered that from the success of that silence depend- ed (he result, in a messure? A. Yes sir. Q. Wasn't it necessary for that resason to avoid discussion on_the Senatorial question with others? A I did not cease to discuss it. I talked with my friends in favor of beator Hitcheock. Cross ezamina'ion by Gen. Esta- brook : Q_This was at what hour of the day? A. Half past ten. The con- versation with Mr. Porter was at four oclock, just before the Inst bal- o. Q. Now you say you had agreed at some period to sup- vort Saunders? A. At balf pest ten I had said to these gen- ilemen—and these gentlemen can be broughbt here—I had agreed to support bim after the ballot taken at 12 o’elock. Q Didn’t you af*er that make an effort to still elect Mr. Hitchejek ? A. I said no one knew of my plans outside of these friends I have spo- ken of. I was suppossd to be & Hiteheock man. Q. Didn’t you ask Mr. Birkhauser and Mr. Holt to vote for Mr. Hitch- cock after this? A. Yes, sir. Q. That was meant for_ strategy ? A. Well, sir, you have- been there, and know how it is yourself about these things. Q. You stili continued to induce Birkhauser and Holt, after this un- derstanding, to vote for Hitehcock. A, Idid. Q. Their names were called be- fore yorrs? A. Yes, sir. Q You tried to influence them? A. I didu't have any effect on them. Q. You tried to affect them, didn’t you? A. Well, yes, sir; I suppose 0. wuen. Estabrook 1 wonld like to reserve the privilege of asking Mr. Howe more questions at some other time. The Chairman, Certainly. | d these men, he made no re- | ton, and Mr. Roeewater with Lis | were present with the exeeption of | [Here the commttee adjourned | clamed he knew something about until 8 p. m. Tuesday.] | me that he got from somebody. —_ | I did hot sdy miich to hini, but let | hith do the talking. ¥ Q. Who did he claim be got it from? A e dido’t=dy. Q. Were you one of the parties to that suit st Kearney? A. No sir. Q. Were you one of the attor- veys? A. Nosir- I was presentas a witness. Q. Was Judge Weaver present {also? A. Yessir - : s 2 Q. Did you ever have any con- counsel, Gen. Estabiook, In order | y iy ion with Judge Weaver any- to accommadate the counsel for the | whore in reference (o the mesns to respondent he was allowed to call a | be employed to secure Patrick’s witness pitt of the . ] election ?° A, No, sir putof the regular order. | eleatioR T A Mool o . EDWIN 5. TOWLE Q Did_you know of Weaver's called on the part of the respondent, | leaving Kearney precipitately? A. 2 : He told me the attorneys for the ;f:‘g duly sworn testified 88 fol- | | oution—uo, for the detense,had 8¢ | excused him, Mr. Thurston. What position | Q Douw’t you know the fact to be did you occupy in the legislature of | hat he was excused, and left be- 18752 A. 1 wasa member of the | cause if cuffered to testify be would tower house. | affirm sll that had been charged? Third Days Proceedings. | Lincoln, Neb, February 6.—The | Howe investigating committee met | | Bevator Holt, Mr. Howe was also present with his counsel, sr. Thurs- Q. Do you remember a publica- tion that was made in the Kearney newspaper in regard to the action of certain members of the legisla- ture? A. I dosir. Q. Was your name mixed up somewhat in Ihat paper with Mr | Howe and others? A. It was. Q Do you know Mr. Rosewater ! { A. Lam acquainted with him, yes | waq in everybody’s month. It was Air. Q Did youever have any conver- sation with Mr. Rosewaier in re- gard to the truth or falsity of these | chnrges as concerus yourself? A, T bad & conversation with bim. It was during the last Ktate conven- tion; 1 went to Mr. Rosewater; auother party had been talking to me; told me1f I did’nt doso and so, | why, there would be certain charg es published against me with regard | to the Patrick business. Gon. Estabrook—A. certain indi- | and & mao who would stand by his vidual told you if you did’nt do &0 andso. A’ Yes sir; in regard to 1 my connection in the State conven- tivn, 1 was & member of the Htate convention. Mr. Thurston —-Who was that fn. dual? A. Heie present here— r. Cole. 1 went around to see whetbier Mr. Colej bad authorized sny such thing, and he s1id he had uot. I told him 1 had suffered per- sonal anxiety enough atout the matter; that his paper was taken in my fawily, and if charges had beer made in it my family would read it. 1 asked him 1if any communication of that kind was sent his paper, if he would publish it. He ‘said no, he would not; that he and I haa been pereonal friends. Q. In that conversation was any- thin said by either of you In regard tothe truth or falsity of these char- ges? A. There was not, and I think Mr. Rosewater will say there was not Q. Did you confess to Mr. Rose- water your guilt iu the matter of these charges? A. Most assuredly not Q. Did you at sny other time? A. [ believe that is the only con- versation I had with him about the matter. Cross-ezamination by Gen. Es- tabrook : Q Who was present at that con- ver-ation 2 A. No one else prezent Q. Didu’t Mr. Cole go with you? A. No, sir. Q Where was this couversation? A. Here in the lobby of the capitol at the time of the iast convention in Mepiember. Q. What constramned you to go and make such inqury? A, I wanted to see whetber it had ema- nated from Mr. Rosewater, and he assured me it bad not. Q. You wanted to see whether a falsehood had emanated from him ? A. Whether be intended to re-hash these old charges agaiust we. Q. What old charges? A. Inre- lation to this Kearney busiuess. Q. What is that? A. What has been read here in relation to this Pa‘rick matter. Q. That is, whether he was going i state ihat Church Howe and yourself and some others had re- received money from Patrick in an endesvor to elect him to the Sen- ale? A. 1believe that was1t, yes, sir. Q. You were speaker of the lower house, I believe ? A. Yes, sir. Q. 'Were you acquainfed with Patrick? A" bave met him Q. Meet him here during theses- sion? A. Yes, sir. ry Q Have any conversation with him i regard to his Benatorial as- pirations? A. Yes, sir, ouce; I only met him twice. The first time I met him was in the saloon of the Tichenor House, and the second time at his room. Q. Did_he disclose to you any of his plans? A. Ouly in general terms. Q. What were those plans, in geveral terms? A He told me he was a Grant man, a Grant Repub- lican; he saia Le stood in well with Grant; that he was about as good a Republican as anybody, and if elect- ed he thought be could do as much for this State as anybody else. Q. He wanted to be elected on his polities? A, That is the talk had that night. Q. Whoelee was present at that conversation? A. Judge Weaver. Q. Wko was present at the firat conversation? A. I had only an introduction the first {ime; I had no conversation. Q. Was the subject of the use of money mentioned at all by Patrick? A. Tt was not. Q. Innoway? A.In no way; he requested me to call around the next moraing to see him; this was about 4 o'clock n the morning, I think, and I dido’t wake up until about 10 o’clock the next morning; at that time the caucus was in ses- sion up here, and they sent for me to come to the caucus. Q Do you know whether Mr. Patrick had been here all the time | durmg thesession ? A. Yes, sir. Q- You badut see bim ?~A. No, sir. Q. Had uny one coming_from him approached you? A. No sir, and I wouldn’t have gone that night if it han’t been for Henry At- kinson. He sent me in. Q. What County did you repre- cent? A Richardécn County. Q Howlsrve & delegation was there from thatCounty? A. One in the Benate, House. Q. Was anything said between | you and Patrick, in regard to carry- | ing that entire delegation for him. A. He wanted to know if we could | carry it, or what I knew of the pro- specl of earrying it for him. I told him I badn’t talked with them about it, and hadn’t thought any- thing about it. Q. Did any corue as fron him, | claiming to be bis friend, suggest- | ing the outlay of money? A. No #ir, none atall 1 would uot have | went in that room that night, as I tld you before, if I bad not been sent in there by Henry Atkinson. | Daudy bad withdrawn aad Atkin- ! eon came on the track. This was after the caucus in which the Dem- | ocrats had to go for Thayer, aud his idea was to get the Demo- crats back from Thayer and throw the whole thing in the pot again. Q. Did you make any admission in this talk with Cole that money | had been used > A. No sir. Q. To neither Cole por Rose- iwater? A. No sir. Mr. Cole and three m the | A. No, sir; not that I know of. | Q. Do you know it to be other- | wise? AT don’t know anything | about that fact; I don't think Wea- | ver knew anything atout it, or had | anything to do with it Q Was'nt it a matter of common | rumor around here that Patrick had | money to use? A. Oh yes, that supposed he had about $100,000. It | was ssid he bad a *bushel” of money- Q. That was before they got to using & “barl?” A, Ob yes sir A bushel will apply to a State, and | & barrel to the Union. I would say this: If 1 had known Mr. Patr then as well as I do now, after Mr Dundy got off the track, I would | huve yoted for bim. Q. Why? A. Beeaue [ betieve | Le'is a gentleman, u mun of abiiity | friends and do good for the State. Q Haye you known bim sinee in suy official capacity? A. No sir. Q Taen what do you base your opinion on a3 to his offieial capaci- ty? A. Well sir, there had been a good many United States senntors elected who bad no “official capaci- ty. Mr. Thurston. Do you kiow any thing except what you heard from general rumor as to Fatrick havivg money here? A. I don’t now any- thing_except rumor. Q. Is that rumor _anything more than that Tilden had a barrel of movey touse? A. It was sunply general rumor; of course everybody Deard it. Gen. Bxtxbrook That he had a bushel: f money? A That was ihe general understanding Q And that whoever voted for him would get a share? A, I nev- er heard that; everybudy could draw theirown inferences. Mr. Thurstou. Did you agree to | vote for Mr. Patrick ? “A. Tdid uot. | Gen. Estabrook Was anyone eise | authorized to stipula’e for you? A | Not that I know of; I might have | been sold out without my knowl | edge | Owing to the Jateness of the hour | at whieh the investigation closed, | we are unable to present to d y the testimony of other witnesseait full. At the conelusioa of Mr. Towle's testimony, | H. €. LELT, | of Brownville, was calied by the prosecution, and questioned length _regarding his connection with Patrick’'s Senatorial contes. two years ago. He testified that he was onintimate terms with Pat. rick during the contst, and was frequently in Lis roum, but knew of no money being u ed by Patrick to secure his election. To the ques- tion whether be had ever heard of any money being used at that term by Patrick. Thurston objected, and afier considerable debaie, by him solf and Gen. Estabrook, L objee tion was sustained, after Estabrook had stated that he proposed to show by the witness that Patrickand wit ness had had a conversati n since the senatorinl election, in which Patrick stated to Lett that he had placed & sum of money in the hands of Mr Howe, to be returned if Par rick was not elected, and that the mouey bad never been returned. Senator Ferguson announced that he was not clear in his own mind as to whether there had been suflicient testimony thus far to establish a | conspiracy, so that the deciarations of Patrick, as one of (he conspira- tors, could be recerved. Estabrook asked leave to with- draw the witness for the time be- ing, and present some anthorities to-morrow morning as to the range of examination in investigations of this character, which was agreed to. 8. U. OWEN, of Lincoln, the next witness called by the prosecution. He testified that he was two years ago president of the State Nanonal Bank of Lin- co'n, and that & sum of money, to | w ich his bank coutributed $100, hi ! beeu placed in the bank sa’e to be used in paying the expenses of lobvying to work mgainst the capital removal bill; that! Mr. Howe had told him the only way to fight such bills was with money, aud that after- wards several individuals who had worked to defeat the measure should be paid for their services. THE KESPONDENT | was then placed on the stand by his counsel and_testified that he aud the entire Nemaha delegation of two years ago were opposed to the capital removal on general princi- ples, and denied baving ever re- celved any of the Lincoln fund on account of his opposition to the measure. Here the committee adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, at which time the remainder of Mr. Letts [ testimony will probably be taken, |if the committee are willing toad- mit it, and it isalso yrobable that Mr. Cowin will testify. Fourth Dayw Procecdings. Lincoln, kebruary 7.—The Howe investigation committee met at 10 | 8. m., all the members present with the exception of Senator Holt. Mr. | Howe and his counre’, Mr. Thurs- ton, and Mr. Rosewater with his | councel, Gen. Estabrook, were also | | in attendance. | H. C. LETT, recalled by the prosecution, testified asfollows : Gen. Estabrook. Before pressing the question asked the wilness lust | night I will ask him a question or two. Will you state whether you participated in your coun'y of Ne- | maba in the canvass iu the last election? A. Imade s few political | speeciies in Nemaha last fall. Q. State whether you and Mr. Howe were members of opposing parties? A. Yes sir, 1 think we | ‘were Q. You are a Demoerat and he —eomething else? A. I am a| straight Democrat. | Q. Hewsnot. A. Heisa “mid- | dle man.” . Q. A “middle msn,” although he don’t beheve in “middle men.” Did the question of his paticipation in the senatcrial election two years ago arise in that campaign 1n any | form, if eo stateto the committge | bow 1t arose? A. It did to sofhe extent. | { purposes? Q. Will you state Mr. whether you made the charge di- rectly toat e had psrticipated i it and that he wis & sharer i the profit that accrued out of bemng a friend te Mr. Patrick ? Objected to as incompetent by Mr. Thurston. The Chairman. Whatis the ob- ject in asking the question. Gen. Estabrook. To see what re- sponse is made. ‘The question of tte admissability of the testimony was argued, at length, pending whica Mr. Howe said he desired his attoruey to wit draw his objection and let Mr. Lett tell the whole thing. Gen. Estabrook then read section 968 of Cushing’s pariiamentary prac- tice in support of his position that Iuvestigations of this claracter should not be bound down to the strict rules of evidence. The Chairman. You may proceed with the examination. Mr. Thurston. Let the witness tell what Mr. Patrick told him ; that is all he does know, uo matter what he “charged”’ him. » The Witness. I never charged in the campaign, or at any other time, that Mr. Howe had been bribed; I never charged that Mr. Patrick paid him money, but I did state, during the campaign, a conversation that took place between Mr. Patrick and myself some time after the Sena- torial contest, and that conversation I repeated a8 told me by Mr. Pat- rick. Gen. Estabrook. Was that pub Disbed in the papers there? A. It may bave been in substance, but I don’t know that it ever was. Q. Now will you state what that { conversation was that you stated? A. I will state as near s I can the conversation and all that I ever knew or ever heard ip that conver- salion. Some time, 1 thiok, In May, ofter the Senatorial election, 1 was in Chieago and met Mr. Pat- rick and Dr Miller at the depot, and came with [them from Chicago as far as Red Oek, in Jowa. Some- where between Chicago and where Ileft them the conversation camne up in reference to the Senatorial contest. Mr. Patrick asked me where his mutual friend, Church Howe, was not. I stated that he was at_home, in Nemaba, when I ‘Thereupon Mr. Patrick enid, «“rhat Howe isacuss " I remarked, “Yes, Howe1s prefty lively.” He then said, “Howe is & guerrilla.’” Gen. Estabrook. “Gorrilla,” or sgurrilla?” A. “Guril'a.”” He seem- ed to manifest some feeling sgainst Howe, and [ asked him then what was the troubie between bim and his friend Howe. He said, “I would have bee: thousands of dollars bet teroff if 1 bad never seen him.” 1 was little iugisitive 10 know, and e weut on aud told we he nad miey during that senatorial & number of thousands of My impression now is, ten o tweive thousand, snd I said to bim 1 could’ne cee how he could spend o much reoney as that, and he unswered, “Well, in various ways. Howe got several thousand doliar I ean’t say whether he mentioned the smount or not. 1t be did, I am not now and never have been, able to recollect amount see how Howe should get any of their money. My impression Is he said, “Howe got several thousand llars of our money.” How's that?” H Howe promised to do, or agreed Lo do maby things ihat Le could not accomplish.” T saud, “I suppose then Howe paid your money back. He said, “Not'a cent” | asked Lim no more questio in substance the entire conversation and the only statement I ever made, private or public, iu reference to the matter that | know. Q state whether you had a con versation afterwards in Salt Lake with him in reference to the mat- tor? If =0, state what it was? A. Never had a conversation witn him on_the subject in Hait Lake. He asked in presence of two or three oth- er persous where Hewe was, and 1ade some slightivg remarks; I be- lieve he used some expression and said “‘Howe is a guerrilla.” Q. How long after the first con- versation was this? A. I think it was in July or August. Q. £ think you stated Just night that Mr. Barker was one of Mr. Patrick’s standing aids? A. 1 don’t think I said that. Q. Wasn’t he continually in hix room? A. Isaw bim in his room yes, sir; 1 never knew Mr. Barker until tnat time, and then not very well. Uross-cxzamination, by Mr. Thurs- 1on. Q. At the time you lad the con- versation with him, Mr. Patrick talked as if he hadn': the best of feelings towards Mr. Howe, didu’t he? A. It seemed to me so; I don’t know whether it was the case or not. Q. Did Mr. Patrick in that con versation state to_you that he bad made an unlawful use of money in the senatorial contest? A. The only thing Mr. Patrick said to me in that entire conversation cn this subject is what ] have stated. Q. Did he state for what purpose or at what time Mr. Howe got money frem him to use for certain A. No sir, he did not. Q Did he state whether it was before or after the senatorial con- test? A. He didn’t say. Q. Did_he state whether or not he gave Mr..riowe any money to use or to influence his vote as a member of the I-gislature? A. No sir. He didn’t speak in that way. He simply said “he got some of our money."” Q. Did he state whether he got that money to use for legitimate or illegitimate purposes? A. He did- n'tsuy, only as [ have stated—that he agreea to do certain things he was never able to accomplish. Q. The contest down in your coun- ty got pratty hot, this last election didn’tit? "A. Katber. Q. Youand Mr. Howe were some- | what bitter towards each other on the stump down there were you not—some what so? A. Well, we made it interesting to others I sup- ose. Q. Mr. Howe was cherging you with some railroad matters, and you was charging bim with Senat- | orial matters? a. I never charged Mr. Howe with Senatorial matters. Q He was chargirg you with some Senatorial matters that — ? A. That were faise. Q He was charging you, was't he? A. es,sir. Q You was tellicg this matter about Mr. Howe 10 use 1t against him? A. Itold it once or twice. Q Do you know whether any the time you were telling it Mr. Thomas received a telegram from Mr. Patrick with regard toit? A. Yes, sir, I heard it read. Q. In’ that railroad matter Mr. Howe had some papers on you that he read, didu’t he, Lett? A. He had some papers with figures on that he read by intimation. Q. Where was you when you heard this telegram read trom Mr. T'atrick in regard to this matter? A Theard two read. The first one T ever saw was one T read myself. Q. Btate whether or not this 1 the one you recognize as having read? [Handing witness s paper.] A. Yes, sir; Lett, | T said to him 1 oouldn’t | and that is | ihe | Re-direct eramination Estabrook: Q. Btate aboiit that {elegram? A: ‘Ihe first telegram was handed to me in Nemaba county. A gentle- man banded it to me, and askea if T would read it. Up'to that tuue I bad not, in my speech, said one | word, nor mentioned Mr. Howe's name [said I would read it, and the telegram was banded to me,pur- porting to be from Salt Lake City, Utah—a week prior to the one that was read afterward, dated at Salt | Lake City. Iread the telegram out | in public, and my impression is it | was addiessed fo Church Howe, | Brownville, Neb.,and read, “I nev- | er told Lett I paid you any money Signed, “J. §. H Patrick.” [said then, as I have stated since, that T never saia Mr. Patrick had told me | be had paid Mr. Howe money. I | then wenton ani stated the eonver- | sation as T have stated it here, and | no more. The second telegram was read by Judge Thomas after Mr. | Howe had made a speech, or some- time during bis speech in Brown- | ville. Howe asked him to get up | and read a dispatch that he (E. | Thomas) had received from Mr. | Patrick. 1 would state further that | the first disoatch I recognized as veiug in Mr. Howe’s own hand- | writing. | Mr. Howe. It was a copy. | The Witness. Itmay have been | a copy. The gentleman who hand- | ed it to me 1 think stated it wasa | copy. ~ 1told bim 1 did'ut care so | far ‘as that was concerned ; tha* I | had never made the cLiarge that Mr. \ Patrick had said he paid him money, therefore the telegram | amounted to nothing. . When the | telegram was read in the hall at | Brownviile, purportiog to be to Mr. | Thomas from Mr. Patrick. = I asked | permission of Mr. Howe to reply, or |say a word, but Mr. Howe forbid | me opening my mouth in the hall ; ! that it was his; he had paid for it +ud he Jid'nt propose [ should speak or anybody else. Mr. Howe. Was that the reply T made to you, Mr. Lett? A. The reply you made tome was that ] could not speak in that hall. Mr. Howe. Did’nt Is y that you had had two weeks in which to re- tail tbis matter on the street while T was out in the country msking speeches, and that this was my right, as I had hired the hall? A. Yes sir, you said that, and that if Mr. Patrick had had time he would come down and brand me as a liar. | Mr. Howe. [ said that if Mr. Patrick had been there he would have reiterated all that T said. A. 1 said that if Mr. Patrick had been there he would not deny wuat he said to me. The Chairman. I unde stand you | that in the first telegram the lan- guage was identical with this? (re ferring to the paper handed witness | previously by Mr. Thurston ) A. I | didn’t read this dispatch. The clerk reads the dispatch as fllows: O3AHA, Nov. 8, 1876, Received of ——; ToJudge Thom- as: Never told Lett that I ever sent Howe any money whatever J.N. H. PATRICK. Gen Estabrook. I must say that i this dispateh is not identified as be- izg what 1t purports to be. ‘L Witness Thissecond dispateh | reads very similar, and is probably lin the ssme words, as the first 1 | saw. Mr Thurston. 1 understand you to state before this conimittee that you never said Patrick paid Howe any woney? A. Not in that lan- iege. | 7@ Do you know of Mr. Patrick’s | ever baving paid Mr. Howe any money for any purpose whatever ? A sir; 1 don’t know anytbing | ubout it except what T have said in | that conversation. | Gen. Extabrook. Did that conver- | sation, in its connections and bear- | iugs, convey to you an idea that | money had been placed in bis hands | which he never returned 2 |~ Objected to by Mr. Thurston as | incompetent and immaterial. | Mr. Ferguson. It would certaiuly | be a eatisfaction to me as a member of the Committee to know what un- derstanding Gov. Lett bad from his | conversation with Mr. Patrick. Mr. Howe. ., T ask my couneel to withdraw his objection, and let the witness tell what he thinks about things. The witness, The impression coming to my my mind was that, as Mr. Patrick stated, it had cost him & great deal of mouey, and that he had not properly used it; but 1 had no reason, at that time, to suppose there was anything buta general trust of money for the pur- pose of doing certain work during the senatorial contest. Ididn’t in- s'st on asking guestions becuuse I thought it was rather inqusitive 1n me. Gen. Estabrcok—And whatever be bad placed in his bands ot mon- ey, was not returned ? A. Yes, sir, T asked bim what he placed it in his hands for. He said it waa to do certain things which he hid not do. I didn't ask any further questions. ‘the Chairman—Did it refer to the senatorial ¢ontest? A. Yes sir. Mr. Howe—He said the object wasnotaccomplished? A. He eati you wasn’t able to do what you agreed to do. Mr. Thurston. Did he intimate to you that this money was placed in Howe’s hands for the purpose of securing Mr. Howe’s vote for him for senator? A. No sir, he did. MR. HOWE AND E. THOMAS were then called, and identified the two telegrams referred to by Mr. Lett, showing that they were sent by Mr. Patrick in response to tele- grams sent him by Mr. Howe, in- quiring of Mr. Patrick whether or not he had stated to Mr. Lett that he had paid Mr. Howe for his vote on the senatorial vote. JOHN C. COWIN, | calied on the part of therespondent, | testified as foliows: | Mr. Thurston. You are an attor- ney, residing at Omaha? A. Yes sir. Q. Was you au attorney in what ‘was known as the Eaton hbel suit, at Kearney? A. In a part of it Q. Assisted in the prosecution? A. Yessir. Q. Before or during that trial did you have consultations with Mr. Howe, or conversations in regard to the suit or its conduct? A Ibad some conversations, ss a matter of course. I was employed y Mr. Howe and Mr. J. rick. Q. Yo may state whether, during all that time, 1 any way, Mr. Howe, directly or indirectly, con- fessed or admitted that he was guil- ty in any manaer of anything that was charged against him? A. He certainly did not, and I may state this further, to make my answer sufficiently full : 1 was employed by Mr. Howe, and afterwards by Mr. Patrick. 1 rode to Kearney with him, and I don’t believe during all this time, 1 don’t suopose I had ten minutes’ conversation with thegen- tleman with respect to tne subject of the trial. There was but one thing said to me by the two men, and that was this: “You may go into this proscution with the assur- ance that there is nothing in the charge, and that nothing can be proven.” That was said to me by Howe and Patrick, and tbat was “Cole. by Gen. ! all. I may say that at Kearney, be- fore the trial commenced, when it was questiozable whether it would come up or not, | don’t think 1 had any couversation with these men. In tact, I thought, for being counsel in the case, | was in s measure left out, and was consulted bat very fit- tle about it. Q You may state whether vefore or during that trial Mr. Howe was very persistent 1 wishing o go on s thecase? A. He was to me, r. » Q. Youmay state whether i con- sultation_in regard to the case, up there, Mr. Howe did not at ail times iusist upon his entire inuo. cence 10 the caze, and his re: to proceed to trial. A. He me. [ought tostate thi- ucther, 1 view of the fact that * 'ule I do not think that Mr. Ro: . ater in- tended it, he bas conve . the im- pression that I violated e secrecy ‘which should be observed between attorney and client, in this case it ‘would not be true, for there were no secrels between us. Mr. Howe and Mr. Patrick told me no secrete. Cross-ezamination by Gen. Exta- brook. Q. Have had any conv rsation with Seth Cole on that sub« o7 A, Yes, sir. Q. When was that ? I will direect your attention to the primaries. You were a candidate before the convention, were you not, for Con- gress? A Yes, sir. Q. Mr. Cole Was professing to be friendly to you? A. Yes, sir; and I think he was. IQ. Mr. Rosewater, also? A. Yes, sir. Q. You were conferring, were you not, upon (he best 1method of complishiug that ead, at different times and places? A. No, sir; I don’t believe I bad any conyersa- tions with Mr. Cole with respeet to my being a candidate for Congress, from the fact that it wasn’t detinite- ly determined upon until we came down here to the convention; there might bave been something said about it. Q Was there anyihing suid about your being a candidate, and the means you bad to bring Mr. Howe to your support? A, There was not, ar Q. Notbing at ail? sir. Q. Let me call your attention to something before the convention, in Beptember, probably, where there was a couversation with Mr. Cole and Mr. Rosewater together; do you remember such a conversation ? A. 1 don’t remem': s it now; there might have be: Q. Don’t 3« A. Nothing, uember there was an intervic v 1 which you said you knew o miesus by which you could secure the supvort of Weaver and Towle? A.'there never was, or anything intimating it Q Didn’t you say in some inter- view about ‘that time fu Omaba, that Church Howe was the only one who had money that he didn’t pay back? A. No, sir; pothing of the kind. Q. Have you ever made a state- ment to that effect to any individ- ual, that you could secure their sup- port? A" Nover, s Q. Did you, durivg the Senatorisl canvass Intely, state anythig regard to Mr. Howe's counection with the election of Patrick? A. Not to my knowledge. Q Did you state anything in reference to the meaus you had to bring ym to support sueh candi- date as should be your choice? A. Never, sir, never. I will state, in regard to that, a conversation 1 had with Mr. Howe, ou the subject my- self. | was tavoring Mr. Naunders at the first. On the second or third day of the contest 1 saw Mr. Rose- water and told him I bad doue and was going to do all [ could for Mr. Ssunders, and, speaking of Mr. Howe, I stated that Mr. Howe had told me it we ever got Saunders where he could be elected wish his assistance, he would vote with us. I bave heard siuce that Mr. Rose- water hal coutorted that mto an assertion that I could secure Mr. Howe. Q Did you ever make any state ment as to the guiltof Mr. Howe in the presence of Mr. Porter? A. That I dou’t know. I don’t think 1 bave since the trial Q 1 mesn since the trial? No. I don’( think I have. Q. You feel certain? A. Yes sir. Q. That you never stated to him you belleved him guilty. A. I never could have stated to him that I believed him guilty. There were many remarks made with regard to Mr. Patrick’s candidacy for the sen- ate and what was said [ don’t pre- tend to say. Q. You mean to deny that you ever had avy such couversation as indicated, with snybody, st sny place, in which you stated your opinion ss to tbe guill of Mr. He A. owe? A.I do sir. To make my spswer more full 1 de- sire to state here that after the indictment was found, or rather after the charge was madeby the Kearney Press with respect to these rties, [ had a conversation with Mr. Cole in regard to 1t, and Mr. Cole pretended to know- and gave the source of nis information—s great manv matters that he consid- ered facts with regard to the case, and all the information I ever gut in respect to this matter-—if it was true at all--I got from Mr. Cole,and he said he got it from a gentleman he knew. I wasat Kearney at the time the indictmuent was found, and after the indictent was found, I had a conversation with Mr. Rose- water in the street at Omaba. e asked me what I knew about this matter. This was at & time I bad no connection with the case. 1 told him that Mr. Timblen, who drew the indictment and was before the grand jury in the place of Dil. worth, aesured me he could prove the charges in the indictment. I may have stated to Mr. Rosewater that if they were sure of the facts which they professed to have, that they would be likely todo it. After this I had a conversation with Mr} He had long urged mc to be a candidate, as well as bad otbers, and he told me he knew certain things whieh would give him influ- ence, which was attempted to be carried out while the convention was in session hereat Lincoln. Iwas of the impression the Richardson county delegation, when we first came here, was in’ favor of me for Congress, but afterwards they changed—for what reason 1 don’t know. Mr. Cole came to me and told me he was going to see Lowle, and if be didn’t bring over that del- egstion he would do certsin _things to Mr. Towle; I told him not to do it on my account; he said he was going to do it avyway; I went arouna to Mr. Towle myself and asked him if he could unot support me; he said he could support me well enough, but thers were other parties with him who could not. Q. Did Mr. Cole eay in terms that he could bring ceriain things to bear—or what was his expression ? A. He had always represented to me— Q. You know to what he referred to? A. Yessr; he referred to the charges made against Towle in the Kearney Press. Q. And dJidn't bhe refer to the fact that you knew that and, know- ing that you could cous rain them to your support? A. Nosir, because after the trial at Kearney I had a