The New York Herald Newspaper, September 11, 1875, Page 5

——_———————_ — GERMANY. THE AUTUMN ARMY MANOEUVRES IN GERMANY— CONCENTRATION OF TROOPS, [SPECIAL DESPATCH BY CADLE TO THE HERALD.) Brestav, Sept. 10, 1875. The concentration of the two German armies, ordered to participate in the grand autumn manceuvres, will not be effected before Monday, when the manceuvres will begin. They will be continued during the week, THE TURKISH TROUBLE. EXSTRUCTIONS FROM THE POPE TO THE BISHOPS OF BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA, Viena, Sept. 10, 1875. It ts reported that the Pope has instructed the Catho- Ke bishops in Bosnia and Herzegovina to use their In- Quence in calining the people and to facilitate the pacifi- cation of those provinces. INDEFINITE REMARKS BY PRINCE MILAN AT BELGRADE. Be.anaps, Sept. 10, 1875, The formal opening of the Servian Skuptchina oc- turred yesterday. Prince Milan, in his speech, referred, but in indefinite language, to the troubles im Bosnia and Herzegovina. fe said he relied on his people's support in the serious task imposed by the great crisis. TEXT OF PRINCE MILAN'S SPEECH REFERRING TO THE INSURRECTION, Bu.GRaps, Sept. 10, 1875. The text of Princo Milan’s speech opening the Skupt- shina is published. Tho paragraph concerning the in- burrection is as follows:— “Bvents in the Turkish provinees have caused much anxiety. The people of those countries have taken wma to rid themselves of the dificulties muich beset them. ‘The Porte is massing ‘roops on our frontier, This complicates the sauses of anxiety, The nation asks for protection, The inbabitants of Bosnia fly here to escape fre and sword, [ will do all Lam able to contribute to restore 4 well ordered condition of things. It is to be hoped that the guaranteeing Powers will succeed in pacifying and satisfying the population,” TURKEY REWARDING SERVIA AND MONTENEGRO. Paris, Sept. 10, 1875. Advices received here from Constantinople represent that the Porte to reward Servia for neutrality will evacuate Zvornik and grant facilities with regard to railway construction, and for the same reason it will concede to Montenegro a rectification of her frontiers. MEETINGS OF DIPLOMATISTS. nes THE DUKE DECAZES AND PRINCE GORTSCHAKOFF AT INTERLACHEN—THIERS’ TURN NEXT. Panis, Sept. 10, 1875. .Le Soir reports that the Duke Decazes, Minister of Foreign Affairs, had a secret interview with Prince | Gortschakoff on the 8th inst., at Interlachen, Prince Gortschakot!’ has since arrived at Vevay, where he will meet ex-President Thiers, ‘ FRENCH BOU RBON TACTICS. ed THE ORLEANS PRINCES STILL RESOLVED TO RE- MAIN INACTIVE. Panis, Sept. 10, 1875. The Journal de Paris, the organ of the Orleanists, publishes a note repudiating a recent pamphlet in whieh the Comte de Chambord was advised to resign his pretensions to the throne of France in favor of the Comte de Paris. The note is considered important, as showing that the Orleans princes are resolved to remain inactive in pursuing their claims while Chambord lives. CARDINAL M‘CLOSKEY. PROTESTANT AND CATHOLIC AMERICANS MAKE HIM A SUPERB PRESENTATION. Rome, Sept. 10, 1875 A deputation on behalf of the American residents, both Catholic and Protestant, visited Cardinal McClos- key to-day and presented him, as a token of their esteem, a complete Cardinal’s dress and a mitre set with precious stones, together with an address express- \ng their good wishes and veneration. ENGLAND. TERMINATION OF THE INQUEST OVER THE BODY OF TH MISTLETOL'S MATE—A VERDICT OF ACCIDENTAL DEATH. Loxpon, Sept. 10, 1875. The body of the Mate of the Mistletoe, which was run fown and sunk ta the Solent on the 18th ult., by the royal yacht Alberta, was recently recovered. As tho body was found within the jurisdiction of Portsmouth | another inquest was held and terminated to-day. Tho jury rendered a verdict of accidental death, but with a rider that there was an crror of judgment on the part of the officers of the Alberta, and, they further express the opinion that a slower rate of speed and a more offi- cient lookout would be conducive to the public safety. THE STATE LINE COLLAPSE. BTOCKOLDERS’ RECOMMENDATION TO CONTINUE THE LINE BY FOUNDING A NEW COMPANY. Lospox, Sept. 10, 1875. The financial article of this evening’s Echo contains the following paragraph :— “Tt is stated that the State Line Steamship Company Is in danger of acomplete collapse. The directors and the committee of the stockholders have concluded that any attempt to carry on the company by borrowing money is hopeless, and that the only means of averting the total loss of what remains of the capital is to con- tinne the line by the formation of a new company, They propose to offer their seven ships, which cost €462,000 sterling, for £256,000. Thoy recommend the vhareholders to allow tha,value of the stock in trade to be transferred to the new company, and also to apply for a considerable amount of the proposed supplemen- Jary capital, believing that the winding up of the com- pany at this time would ,fesult in the total loss of the capital invested. vs CUBA. VALMASEDA ORDERS IMPORTANT CHANGES IN ‘THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT OF HAVANA. Havana, Sept. 9, 1875, Captain General Valmaseda has made important shanges in the municipal government of Havana. The | powers of the Mayor have been restricted, The Chief of Police is ordered to report directly to the Captain Gencral, The battalion of Civil Guards have been re- Veved from police duty in part, and the’ battalion of reterans from the various regiments will take their place, doing duty conjointly with the city police, The acting Mayor, tho Marquis of Bella Vista, has resigned, A report is current that Mayor Zulueta, | who is on leave of absence on account of illness, has sent a protest to Madrid against these changes. REMOVAL OP HEADQUARTERS, Tho headquarters of several divisions of Spanish Woops in the insurrectionary districts have been re- moved from the country seats to points on the lines of railroad, AN INSURGENT NEWSPAPER SUPPRESSED, President Gonzales, of St. Domingo, has suppressed Dos Antilles, a newspaper of Puerto Plata, published in the interest of the Cuban insurgents. THE BATTLE OF LAKE ERIE. Newronr, R. 1, Sep ‘At noon to-day, by order of His Excellen Lippitt, a salute of 100 guns was tired in honor of the anniversary of the battle of Lake Erie. The hero of that memorable occusion, and the author of the de- Epatch “We have met the enemy and they are ours,” was anative of this city, and a plain, unpretending granite shaft marks his last resting piace in Isiand Cemetery, in this city, Th is is Une first time that the Executive of the § bas‘ever taken any official recognition of the day OF | and, in conclusion, made some general observation Pithough it has beeh observed many times by the local moflitary, NEW YORK HERALD, SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 1875.-WITH SUPPLEMENT, THE INDIAN FRAUDS, Testimony of Bishop Hare Before the Investigating Commission. HONESTY OF THE RED CLOUD AGENT. ——_——_ A Certificate of Character for the {nterior De- partment and the Indian Bureau. A QUESTION OF VERACITY UNSETTLED, Wasmyarox, Sept. 10, 1875, The Red Cloud Indian Investigating Commission have resumed the examination of witnesses, and the prospect is that, if they intend to fight it out on the line of ex- amining every person whose name has been or may be Suggested to them, it will take them, not only “all summer,” but will carry them into another adminis- tration. The feature of the session to-day was the ex- amination of Bishop W. H. Hare, who has had an ex- tensive acquaintance with the management of the Jadiang, under the auspices of the Episcopal Church, in carrying out the peace policy of the Presi- dent. Bishop Hare spoke with both candor and caution, and was tenderly conscientious lest any unguarded statements of his might be considered as re- flecting upon the personal character and integrity of any person whose name or position he had occasion to mention, The principal part of the examination had special reference to the conduct of APYAIRS UNDER DR, SAVILLE, the agent at Red Cloud, respecting which the Bishop had made a special examination and report over a year ago, While stating his opinion, in which the Commise sioner of Indian Affairs concurred, that, for a variety of » reasons the period of Dr. Saville’s usefulness as an Indian agent had- passed, Bishop Hare took ccasion to express bis unshaken confidence in the personal integrity of the Red Cloud Agent, and, in general observation with the Commissioners after tho close of his formal examination, he pointed out the dif- ficulties the Doctor had had to contend with and the disaifected interests at work against him, and defended him from the unjust aspersions which, he said, have been cast upon him. The Bishop also testified to the assistance he had re- ceived from the Interior Department and the Indian Otice im his endeavors to correct abuses in the management of tho Indian matters at the agencies, upon the general subject of Indian affairs, “expressing substantially the same views which he had previously embodied in his special report to the department, Professor Marsh and the Commissioner of Indian af- fairs were present at the examination of Bishop Hare to-day, and the Professor turned examiner for a time and asked'the Bishop some questions more especially touching the fact as to whether certain recom- mendations made in Bishop Hare’s report bad been carried out by the department, BISHOP HARK'S TESTIMONY, By Mr. Faulkner—I call your attention to the fol- lowing paragraph in the pamphlet containing Professor Marsh’s charges: “Essentially the same excuse for the inferior char- acter of these cattle was made by Agent Saville im Washington, June 1, 1875. When questioned by Bishop W. H. Hare in ty presence in regard to this particular issue Agent Saville then stated that the poor condition of these cattle was owing to hard driving some forty- eight hours, with little grass or sleep, to hurry them waa as the Indians had had no beef for some time, he havfng kept back rations to imduce them to be counted; these cattle arrived in the morning and he weighed most of them the same forenoon; some few that were wild he did not weigh, but estimated; the issue was made on the same afternoon of the receipt; among the cattle then issued were some forty or more ‘small and scallawag cattle; Agent Saville was confident that these cattle, thin as they were, would weigh 850 pounds on un average; on my questioning this he in- sisted that those he weighed came up to that average and that those estimated were tully as large; he, him- self, weighed all of the herd that were weighed on the morning tbey arrived; memoranda of these statements of Agent Saville were ‘taken down at the time by both Bishop Hare and myself, and, ata subsequent confer- ence, were found to agree.”” Now, do you recollect the extent of that interview that took place between yourself and Agent Saville which is there referred to, and if sogive us the sub- stance of it, as far as youcan recollect? A. I accept this statement, with the exception of one or two words that do not affect its substance. 1 would omit the phrase, ‘forty-eight hours.” I don’t deny it, but I don’t remember it, If it be a verbatim copy of the statement I stand by it; but there are a few words that Ido not remember. I willread it over again [reading]. Essentially the same excuse for the inferior char- acter of these cattle was made by Agent Saville in Washington, June 1, 1875, when quostioned by Bishop W. H. Hare, in my presence, in regard to thisparticular issue?’ A. “That is so.” Q “Agent Saville then stated that the poor con- dition of these cattle was owing to hard driving some forty-cight hours with little grass or sleep, to hugry them through, as the Indians had had no beef for some time, he having kept back rations to induce thom to be counted?’ A, “That is 80, except I won’t be suro about the words ‘ forty-eight hours’,”” Q These cattle arrived in the morning, and he weighed most of them the same forenoon??? A. “That is 80.” Q “Some fow that were wild he did not weigh, but estimated?’ A, “That is so.’ “ The issue was made on the same afternoon as the receipt.’ ‘That is so,” ‘Among the cattle then issued were forty or more ‘‘scalla- wag" cattle.’ “Iwon’t be sure about the number, He may have said forty, but I don’t remember exactly.” ‘Agent Saville was confident that these cattle, thin as they were, would weigh 860 pounds on an average.’ “That is so.” ‘On my questioning this, he insisted that those he weighed came up to that average, and that those estimated were fully as large.’ ‘That is so.” ‘Ho himself weighed all of the herd that were weighed on the morning they arrived.’ “That is so." By tho Chairman—Did you understand Saville to say on that occasion that these cattle would average 850 pounds and no more?” A. “Not to say so; but the im- pression upon my mind was that they would not weigh more than 850 pounds; I thought that a man who wished to prove that the cattle were up to the standard would not state the lowest figure, but rather the bigh- est figure which his conscience would allow; if, there- fore, Saville again and again reiterated that they would weigh 850 pounds, it was clear to ine that they would not weigh 950." By Mr. Harris—‘‘Sayille stated that in that conversa- tion he was repeatedly asked by yourselt or Professor Marsh whether the cattle would come up to 860 pounds as the minimum named in the contract; to which he said he thought they would, and more?’ A. “1 don'y remember the ‘more;’ I do not think he could have used ‘more;’ 1 think that would have made an impres. | sion upon my mind,” Q “Then, as to the other part of his statement that the qhestion was put to him to give the minimum num- ver of pounds or the average numbor of poun ated in the contract, do you know whether the contract was referred to in your conversation?” A. “The contract was referred to; not visibly produced, but referred to verbally.” Q “I state to you as well as T ean remember, without being able at this moment to read his exact statement, the substance of what he said, in order that, if you think proper, you can affirm it or contradict 1, either way?” A. “I would not be willing to do more than to give my impression of it, There were a great many other thingson my mind, This was, with me, a sido fesue, Iam aiminister, That was no particular busi- ness of mine, and, having asked about it, I dismissed the matter frommy mind and attended to my usual affairs, and I don’t wish to give anything more than as my memory serves me now.” hd By the Chairman—What I wish to “irrive at is whether or no you had any recollection that would en- ablo you to say when Saville talked about the weight of the cattle, whether he was speaking of their a tua weight or whether he only combating the state- ment that they would not weigh pounds, merely disputing that statement as a fact? A. “He was not disputing that as a fact, that they would not weigh 850 pounds’ But I had wilked with him and with Professor Marsh so much previously about it that I thought he never stated that they would weigh 950 pounds, and, therefore, when I saw that it appeared, from certain vouchers in the Auditor's office, that he reported that | however, ‘ey averaged over 1,00v pounds, my heart sunk within me. But that is merely an inference of mine. 1 can- not present it as anything like evidence, I know nothing positive. Q “Iwill ask you, Bishop, if you recollect the eir- cumstance of a conversation between Dr. ile and Professor Marsh in reference to the seven head of cattle that it was charged by Professor Marsh were very inferior—the same that General Bradley gave a cer- tifieate in reference to—if you remember Professor Marsh writing down something concerning it and Dr. | Saville stopping him and telling him that he misrepre- | sented or misunderstood him?’ A. ‘1 do remember i.” By Mr. Fanlkner—Had not yon better state, Bishop, what you recollect with reference to it?” A. “I would rather be questioned,” By Mr, Fanikner—‘We would rather you would give the statement as it presents itself to your mind.”” By the Chairman—‘‘Dr, Saville said in his testimony before us, ‘When I met Professor Marsh again it was in Bishop Hare's room in the hotel. There this question came up again and Professor Marsh stated, in substance, that I bad said that I had received those cattle and tseued them too; I told him that I had not said so, that I said that I thought that I had not recetpted for them, but I could not remember distinctly; he then asked me ‘if you have received them wero they issued to the Indians? I eaid probably they were, He then went to take it down, and then repeated over | nearly what he says there in the statement. 1 stopped him and told him that he wilfully misinterpreted or misunderstood ine, I told him I thought he was i 4 to make up a case against me and fle did not care how he did i, By that time Bishop Hare got up and put his hand on me, for | was getting very angry. | said a good deal more, but that is the substance of what I said to him about tt.’? . ‘Now, what {s your recollection as to that conversa- tion?” A. “Well, 1 do not think I can answer until I know what is said in Professor Marsh’s pamphlet which is there referred to; I am willing to. state, informally, I understood the point Professor Marsh made was that Dr, Saville had said that he receipted tor thore seven head of cattle and tlfereby made the gov- erninent responsible for them, while I understood Dr, | Saville to say that he did hot receipt for them but simply received them; that be made a distinction be- tween the two words; that he (Saville) represented that they were driven up with the rest of the cattle and he had permitted them to be driven into the corral and af- terwards they were issued to the Indians; that he did not receipt for them although he received them; there | is a distinction plainly implied between the two words; that is to say, if he had receipted for them the government would be responsible and have to pay for them, while if he merely allowed them tobe driven in and did not receipt for them the government was not responsible for them; if a man delivers six barrels of merchandise to me and I receipt for them I am responsible for them, and then if he afterward de- livers four more barrels and J do not receipt for them I am not responsible for them; the difference was in the two words ‘receipted’ and ‘received,’ Professor Marsh understanding that it was ‘receipted’ and Dr, Saville that it was ‘received;’ it was in regard to that that the paling was displayed; as to which Saville said I do not how, By Mr. Harris—‘This is what I find in our record of Dr. Saville’s testimony, taken before us at Red Cloud agency :— “Q. In the same connection Professor Marsh says that Agent Saville was confident that these cattle, thin as they were, would weigh 850 pounds on an’ average. Did you make that statement to him?” A. “I shall hav to explain that in the same way by recalling what was said; Bishop Hare asked me if theso cattle would weigh every one 1,000 pounds, and I gaid, ‘No, they would not,’ and then remarked that the contract did not require them to be 1,000 pounds in weight, and he asked me bow much it was and I told him 850 pounds, and he turned to mo and said, ‘Did these ‘cattle average $60 pounds?’ asking a general explanation if they came up to the contract; I answered him in these words, ‘Yes, and more;’ those I think were the exact words, “Q Did you at any time claim, In that conversation or any other, that they weighed 850 pounds?” A. “No, sir, not fixing the amount, ouly that they filled the contract.” Q “lask you now If that statement accords with, your recollection ?”? A. “I would omit the words ‘and more,’ but if | was put on my oath to deny that he said ‘and more,’ I should prefer not saying it, because it is merely a matter of memory, and a man’s character is at stake, ”? Q “Then, Bishop, how in other respects does the statement agree with your recollection?” A. “Ex- actly.” 4 By Mr. Atherton—“Do you remember his speaking of the £1,000 and the contract?” A, “I do.” By Mr. Harris—‘I want in that connection to ask an- other question, Do you know whether Dr. Savillgor notat that time, tn the presence of Professor Marsh and yourself, claimed that he was then speaking without his books and without the means of giving you the ex- act figures im tho matter?” A. “Ido not remember that he aamed it,” Q. “Do you know whether or not that was the fact, whether he had any books by him or whether you had @ transcript of the books?’? A. ‘He did not produce aaa? “iit vile oe Pratilibe Ward “eidsietltpta’ ot! is accounts?” A. “I had not.” Q “Perhaps it could not be so at that time, because I believe you afterwards saw the record of hisstatement of the weight of the cattle received on that day?’ A, “f saw it in Professor Marsh's statement.” By the Chairman—Q. “Bishop, have you read tho Pamphlet of Professor Marsh?” A. “Not tully, I took it up, but 1 was very busy with other matters and have not read it fully.”” Q “Then you are not aware of what the charges are which are made in his statement to the Commission ?”” A. “No, not specifically.” Q. “So far as you have read them and are aware of them, is there any information that you can give us that would be relevant to the questions raised there, going to show the correctness of any of those charges— any testimony in support of them that you could give us?” A. “I would prefer you to ask mé questions. have nothing to say in answer-to that general question, | but I should be very glad to answer any particular ques: | tion. Q “Well, then, are you aware of any frauds trated upou the Indians by Agent Savillet” not. Perpe- A “I am Q@ “Or upon the government?” A. “I am not.’? Q “Are you aware, even, whether or not the num- ber of Indians at the Red Cloud Agency has been oyer- estimated or overstated by the agent or by anybody else, by which the government has been wronged?” A. “I am_ not.” By Mr. Harris -“I want to ask you whether or not yow have so investigated that matter as to have formed an opinion upon that subject?” A. “I examined that matter whon was at the agency in March, 1874; so ‘tar as I know Savile's reports up to that dato regarding the numbor of Indians | were true, But there is no subject upon which men | have such difference of opinion as upon the number of Indians. Regarding the time when Professor Marsh was there I have no information. I was not th Upon the subject of the general question I would rea ‘In the third place the testimony is abundant and unanimous to the point that these agencies, always the refuge in winter of our northern Indians who have connected themselves with no agency in particular, were last winter the resort of a larger number than usual.’ Q “Do you know bat rig ® issue of annuity goods at Red Cl A. “Ido not.’ Q “You are not aware of any circumstances that might be regarded as fraudulent in reference to the issue of goods?” A. “I am not,” % Q “Do you know anything of the quality of the beof issued by the agent at the Red Cloud Agency to the Indians?” A. “At what time?” Q “Atany time?” A. “Begarditia the time covered by my report, which is here, I have read that report | this morning and I stand by every word of it to-day, | Q. “Have you any Knowledge on the subject that is | not embraced in your report?” A, “Do you mean up to the time that report was made or since then ?’” Q “Since that time.” A. “No; I have no know!l- in reference to the joud Agency in 18749" edge.” ¢ “Can you give us the names of any persons who | havo any knowledge on the subject??? A. “No, 1 can- not; I will say, gentlemen, that I stood by Agent Savlile because f believed him to bean honest man in a dificult position, fretted by men some of whom had bad motives, unul I met him here last June; then I fone to the conclusion that he was not the man for the place.” By Mr, Fautkner—Q. ‘Was that conclusion based upon any facts or upon his temper and character?” 4. “Partly upon his temper, partly upon the fact that he had been 80 bothered and there were many persons enlisted against him that [ believed hus influence for good was gone, and partly—I would rather what I say would not be put down; it is not testimony; a man's character is at stake, and I cannot say it if itis put down, but I will state what I was going to say for the benelit of the commission,” Mr. Harris—~‘This is not the time or place for confi- denttal communications"? Bishop Hare~-"Well, then, I will say in the third place that I thought the Episcopal Church ‘should no long be responsible in any wav for an‘agent regarding whose | character so many questions had been raiged."’ By the Chairman—" Do you know of any frauds or wrong-doing on the part of any beef contractor at the Red Cloud Agency, or at the Spotted Tail Agency f”” A. by Ido now" @ | “Do you know anything of the character and qual- ity of some pork that was issued at Red Cloud Agency in 18747" A. “1 do not’? Q “Do you know anything of the quality of somo flour that was issued there in 1874?" A. “‘L do not.’ jo you know anything of any fraud or wrong doing on the part of any contractor in reference to flour furnished to either of those agencies?" A. ‘ou refer, of course, to persunal knowledge, not to whatl have heard people say; I have no personal knowledge; I do not think I bave any iuformation on that subject that is | not common rumor.” Q “Do you know anything of the character of the sugar, coffee and tobacco issued at that agency im 18741" A. “I do not,” Q@ “Do you know anything of the suffering of thesln- dians in the winter of i874-'76 and the spring of 1875!” A. “1do not”? Q “Do you know anything of the true distance from | Cheyenne to the Red Cloud Agency! A. “T know | thore is a dispute regarding that matter, based upon the | routes they may have followed; one leading across tho Platte ay Nick Janney’s ranche, which is the | shorter route, and that by Fort Laramie, which is te lon ; the distanes Land my colleagues judged it to be when we were there in 1873, from Cheyenne to Spot. ted Tail, is given in this report; T have no knowled the distance; I have travelled it four, five or six t bat I have no aecurate Knowledge on that subjec Q “Haye you any knowledge of any instance of al- j tally and I say to him, ‘You ought never | to have done it; if ‘you do it again 1 will report it to the government.’ In that | strong recommen Jeged frauds or mismanagement on the part of any per- son connected with the Indian Department brought to the knowledge or notice of the Commis- sioner of Indian Affairs or the Secretary of the Interior, of which alleged frauds or mismanagement no notice was taken by them.” A. “No, none whatso- ever, Ihave no knowledge of any such case, On the contrary, I have never brought to the attention of the departinent what I thought to be @ suspicious proceed ing that it was not immediately noticed and attended | to? Q. ‘Have you any knowledge or informagion of any other frauds or misinanagement on the part of any per- son connected with the Indian Department that { have not called your attention to?” A. “f would like that question to be limited to officers in authority at Washington and Indian agents, a8 it is too general a question, and I should have to runsack my tind for two or three years’? Q “Well, inciuding agents now holding office and about whom there are no investigations set on foot, against whom go charges have been made?” A. “1 woald rather the question would be divided." Q “First, then, as to officers and employés in the department at Washington?” A. “I can say perfectly, fully and frankly regarding that that all my intercourse with the Secretary of the Interior, the Assistant Secre- tary and the Comznissioner of Indian Affairs has tended | but to win for them my respect and regard; 1 have | never known them to be guilty of any fraudulent prac- | tice whatsoever. ’? | Q “Nor tolerating It in others?” A. “Nor tolerating it in others.” Q. Now in reference to the agents and employés in the Indian country, is there anything that you know of concerning them?” A. “Before I give my answer to that question I would like to say that my rejations with Tndian agents are somewhat coniidential, I go amon: them as aiminister, They know perfectly well that [ | have official relations with the officers of the govern- ment. Sometimes an agent tells me things confiden- way an agent tells me confidential matters connected with his management. Now | will give my answer to your question. It is this, I haye no kuowledge of fraud on the partof any agent now in the teid; re- gurding some, however, I have suspicions.” Q. “Well, can you give us the names of any persons who, in your opinion, would be likely to afford us infor- mation going to establish any of the charges contained in Professor Marsh’s pamphlet; persons who would be ilkely to know the facts or to know of the frauds if they existed?” A. “I cannot? the gentlemen whom you have questioned, the bee! contractors and such persons, I suppose could give you | information; your question’ means that you wisli to | know if I have any Knowledge as a secret; my answer is | that | have no such knowledge or information.” | By Mr. Faulkner:—Q. “Has anything occurred sinco | 2 prepared that report, either irom your personal | nowledge or on satistactory information, that would | lead you to vary or modify the conclusions of that r port, so far as the administration of the agency at Red Cloud is concerned!” A, “Nothing whatsoever to | change my opinion regarding the administration up to | the date of that report,” | Q “I was not speaking of the date of the report; I | was speaking of up to the present time. Has anything | occurred since the date of that report, arising either | upon personal knowledge, or to your own mind satis- | factory information that would vary the conclusions of | that report?” A, ‘I have become very suspicious res | garding the condition of affairs at that agency during the last year, but I have no knowledge,” Q. “las the Episcopal church ever intimated to the departinent: any want of confidence in themgent at | Red Cloud Agency, who, I believe, is of their own selec- tion?” A. ver, Twould like to add to that that upon conference with the Commissioner of Indian Atfairs last June we both concluded that Saville had better vacate his place. ’? Q “Can you assign any reason why more progress has not been made.in the establishment of schools and in missionary labors at that agency 7? A. “The agency and the administration of the agent have been the sub- ject of constant attack, antl the agency itself has been the resort of the wildest Indians. In the uncertainty which these two facts has produced I have felt indi posed to begin either schools or churches. Now, genth men, I am pertectly willing, at any inconvenience, to stay here longer if it is essential to the truth, but i my time is up. am going out of town | aid I havo but twenty minutes to reach the | railroad depot and the carriage is waiting for me, 1 would be very glad to stay if 1 can be of any servi but I wish two say that I do not like to be asked gen questions in a public investigation, I am willing to confer privately with the Commissioners and give them ali the information and suggestions in my power, but I do not think I can in justice to the character of others answer such general questions as have been pro- pounded,” | The Commissioners being desirous to hear further | from Bishop Hare, because of his extensive knowl- edge in reference to the management of Indian affairs, | prevailed upon him to remain, and the examination was | continued, The Chairman (to Bishop Harée)—“I can appreciate your delicacy in this matter; but you might give us some | suggestions that would be of use to us.”? ishop Hare—"1 have nothing to say on the Indian nestion which I would not state in the presence of Pro- fessor Marsh or any representative of the Indian Depart- ment or to any gentleman who would be talking as gen- tiemen talk among themselves.”? Some general conversation here followed, in tho course of which Bishop Hare asked Mr, Faulkner why he bad put to him the question as to whether anything had occurred since the date of his report that would Jead him to modify the conclusions at which he had arrived in that report. Mr. | } Faulkner replied that the | question was suggested to him by the Bishop's own | remark that he had stood by Agent Saville until he | came here in June last, when he came to the concli- | sion that he was not the man for the place, The con- | Yersation then turned upon the condition of afairs in | that Indian country at the time the Bishop made the mvestigations upon which his report was based, In this connection he went on to sa Bistiop Hare—Several white had been killed in the neighborhood of Laramie Peak within two days; 80 many murders had occurred that the whites became alarined; 1 had private information from Indians which was threatening; some men urged that these Indians had been driven to frenzy by wrongs perpetrated upon them by their agents, and hence there were wartike Proceedings: 1 wus telegraphed to by the government | and asked to go out to Red Cloud Agency aud Spotted Tail Agency—-I was then at Yankton Agency,—and examine into the ‘true state of ullurs at those agencies; these Indians had been put | under my missionary care and the agents were | | the nominees of the Episcopal Church; I felt bound to go, and out of my going there came this report; I did not go to examine into the truth of Mr. Walker's report as my chief business; the question was altogether a bigger one; eome people maintain that Indians never | do wrong and never have committed depredations; that | some white men must have been the immodiate cause; that is all humbug; these Indians are very violent, | very savage, and burst into war simply | from the violence of their natures; of | course they aro grievously outraged by white men, | but not always by their agents; I have read this motne ing the report which I made a year ago last April, and L | | aim pleased with it to-day, I will say, moreover, that in all my experience in the Indian country the rations that Thave seen have been wholesome and good, but not first class; at the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail ageucies in March, i874, 1 saw bad flour; so far as 1 could discover | it was the remains of flour sent there the previous | ear, 71 will take your recommendation, which we | will mark No, 1, that the agents at the’ Red Cloud | and Spotted Tail agencies and at any agencies hereafter | established among the wilder Sioux to be supported by a military foree which should, however, except under extraordinary circumstances, be at a short | distance from the agency and not ‘immediately ad- joining; the reiation of the agent and the commanding | officer should be detinitely determined; that an agency | be provided for the Northern Siotix, and that, to this | end, they, bo refused rations at the existing agencies, | and a Mlegution of them be induced to visit Was! ington, and that the location of the be in’ the neighborhood -of the Black Q “Had you seen anything in Saville’s conduct bo- | fore June, 1875, that made you think him morally weak?” A. “I deciine to answer the question, respect | fully to you. T would like to add, with reference to Saville’s moral character, that it is equal to the average,” Mr. Harris—*That term, ‘morally weak,’ has not been used bofore ¥”? | Mr. Marsh—The Bishop will understand what ‘morally | Wenk’ means,” | | | | | Mr. Marsh—“I have nothing more to ask.’” Bishop Hare—“I wish to say distinctly that in tho conversation between Dr, Saville and Vrofessor Marsh I understood the question at issue to be whether the cattle receipted for came up to the average required by the contract or not,” By Mr. Harris—“I will ask you whether or not it was claimed on the one side that they did not come up to the average, and on the other side that they did; waa that the matter of controversy ?” | A. “I have no information as to whether that bas been carried out.” | Q “As to your second recommendation, that all | beef and other provisions be issued by orders on the | Issue Clerk, which orders should pass through the otlice, in order to their appearance on the books; that these orders be filed away for safe keep. ing, and the books and papers of the agency be the property of the government and pot of the agent? A. don't know whether those recommend- ons have been carried out or not. They are very ions, however, gentlemen, to ap- pear in a report said to have been gotten up in the in- terest of the ring.” Q. ‘As to your third recommendation ‘that brands of United States Indian Department and of inspector be placed upon all packages consigned to agents undor contract ?’"’ A. “Ido not know whether that recom- mendation has been carried out." | Q “Then as to the fourth recommendation as to beef | for balance of the current year?” A. ‘1 don't know.” Mr. Marsh—Q “I understood the issue to be | somewhat different trom that!” A. “1 should be very glad to have my memory corrected.” Q ‘Do you remember our conversation about tho actual weight of the cattie before Saville came to your room?" A. “Yes, sir; I think I do.” “Will you please’ state what that was in sub. stance?” A. “I think I remember your stating that, in your opinion, they would fall below the contract | average, but I understand that the issue when Saville | was present to have been whether the eatuie came up | to the contract ge or notY That is my memory.” | Q “Did he say anything that led you to tafer that he | claiined more tha: 0 pounds actually for that lot of cattle?” A. “He did hot.” . | Ry Mr, Harris—Q. “Did you understand him to be stating the result of that weight, the figures which fo remembored as the actual weight?” AL “Yes, he re- i ved them,’ " Q. “The quostion 18 whether you undersgpod him to be stating when he roferred to the woight the exact | average weight.” A. “No, sit; mot the exact weight.” | Q “Did he say anything about that; did he leave upon urmind the impression that he not then the his, or that he remember them; or ther he was giving you the exact or the proximate weighty” A, “He leit such an impres- y \ x aj | giving his reasons therefur. | the society at their pryate rooms, the rain preventing advieable that tho original programme, which j had an hour. earlier been abandoned, should be taken up, and that the Governor should address tho people assembled on the Farr Grounds, The party were driven at once to the grounds, and’ were tendered a private reception in the office of the association and soon after were ¢ | Broadway, or in sion that ff 1 aiscovered tnat they artuaily wetghed 950 { pounds I should have been very much surprised. ’* Q “Upon this point the controversy between Pro- fessor Marsh und Dr, Saville 1s brought down to a few words, Saville saying, ‘I said they would come up to the average and 1 and the Professor claiming that he said they would weigh that precisely. I only want you to give your best recollection upon the subject?” A. “I omit the word ‘more,’ as T have said.” The Commissioner of Indian Affairs—‘I would Mke to have the Bishop state as to his habit and mine of comparing views when we met respooting the integ- rity and efficiency of the administration of agents, for which both of us are responsible” Bishop Hare—*Our exchange of views has been very free and full. But let me say to the Commissioner that 1 consider my responsibility of a very modified char- acter,”” By Mr. Harris—‘Do you know whether from the statement of Saville or from other sources he has re- ceived anything in the shape of presents or in any other way any compensation from any contractor or any per- son Interested in furnishing Indian is or supplies A. “I have no information whatsoe . ‘This ended the regular exatuination of Bishop Hare. In the informal conversation which — followed he gave some account of his experience among Indians generally, his observations as to their character and customs, expressed his poor opinion of w men around the Indian agencies and said the government should adopt a firmer policy in dealing with the Indians, A LETTER FROM MR. WELSH. PiiLapELria, Pa., Sept 10, 1875. Mr, William Welsh has addressed @ letter to Hon, Thomas ©, Fletcher, chairman of the committee ap- pointed to investigate the alleged frauds at the Red Cloud Agency, refusing to attend the investigation and CHINA AND JAPAN: THE BRITISH MINISTER EN ROUTE FOR PEKIN WITH ENGLAND'S ULTIMATUM IN THR MAR- GARY CASE-—-NO REDRESS FOR THE MURDER OF THE CUSTOM HOUSE CLERK. SAN Francisco, Sept. 10, 1875, Mong Kong dates are to August 16, and Shanghai to August 17. ‘The British Minister, Mr, Wade, had left Tientsin for Pekin, there to deliver the ultimatum of the British government in the case of Margary, Several attachés of the British legation preceded him on different dates to give the Chinese government full and timely warning of the action which Mr. Wade would take It is com- monly understood that if his ands are not acceded to within twenty-four hours he will withdraw his lega. tion and declare open hostilities, These demands com- prise a complete investigation of the case, the punish- ment of the offenders, and heavy pecuniary damages, It is not doupted that the Chinese anthorities will | agree to everything and pay the indemnity promptly, though as to the punishment of the guilty parties much evasion is expected. The relations between Mr, Wade and Li-hung Chang, the Viceroy of China, while at Tientsin were not cordial. The treaty between China and Peru had been ratified at Teintsin after a long delay and many difficyjties. Mr. J. Meadows, formerly of the Englis¥ consular service and latterly interpreter for the Peruvian Lega. | tion, died suddenly at Teintsin, ‘There had been renewed attacks by Chinese mobs on telegraph attachés near Foochoo. : ‘The efforts to obtain an explanation of and redress for the murder of Mr. Blacklock, an English assistant in the Foochoo customs service, had utterly failed, RUSSIAN AND JAPANESE TRANSFERS—ARREST OF UNITED STATES CITIZENS. ‘The Pacific Mail steamship City of Tokio, trom Hong Kong, China, via Japan, August 24, has arrived, The Russian and Japanese Commission had. sailed to complete the transfer of the Kurile Islands to Japan and the Saghalien Islands to Russia, Reports are circulated among Japanese officials to the effect that a war between China and England is immi- | nent, but they are not believed to be based upon any in- telligence beyond that already received by foreigners. On retiring from the Japanese service next month General Logendre will receive the firse imperial deco- Tation ever offered to any foreigner, ‘The question of the Corean invasion remains un- changed. The most influential members of the gov- ernment are against it, though they are not in the ma- jority. Judge Richardson, of the United States Court of Claims at Washington, and Commander Lewis, of the United States sveamer Yantic, while travelling within the treaty limits of Yokohama, were arrested by local officers and sent back to the foreign settlement. Tho ark was undoubtedly illegal, and was immediately recog- ized as such by the government at Jeddo, which took immediate measures for an investigation of the case be- any complaint had been made of the offending par- und they were promptly punished, and such apolo- gies’ Were ollérod as to give 1uil satisfaction to the gen- temen concerned. GOVERNOR TILDEN AT FORT ED- WARD. THE OPEN AIR RECEPTION PREVENTED BY THE RAIN. Fort Epwanp, N. Y., Sept. 10, 1875, In accordance with previous arrangements, Governor Tilden arrived at Fort Edward this morning and was received by a committee appointed to escort him to the grounds of the Washington Agricultural Society. On account ofthe rain it was thought advisable that the reception to the Governor should take place at the Opera House, to which place the party adjourned, where an appropriate address of welcome was’ made by Dr. J. E. King, gf the Fort Edward Institute. Tho Governor respond! ina brief speech, thanking the citizens for the hospitalities extended to him, and assuring them of the pleasure it gave him to revisit their beautiful village and gaze upon the spot which in his childhood he had been taught to reverence for its historic fam: He was followed by Lieutenant Governor Dorsheimer- in a few well chosen remarks, atter which the party visited the Institute and were driven to tho Fair Grounds, where they were received by the officers of their appearance in public. Fort Eowan, N. ¥., Sept. 10, 1875. At one o'clock the weather appeared more favorable and the rain finally ceased. It was then deemed escorted to the grand stand, where, despite the chilly and damp state of the weather, a large throng, number- ing nearly 6,000 people, including many of the genticr sex, had assembled. The Governor was introduced by Mr. E. l. Coy, President of the society, and ad- dressed the audience in a clear and distinct voice, which was heard in every part of the circle, THE RAIN PREVENTS THE SPEECH MAKING. Sanpy Hi, N. Y, Sept. 10, 1875. Owlngto the storm the Governor will not speak to- day before the Washington Agricultural Society. The address will be delivered to-morrow, weather per- mitting. THROUGH MILLIONS exudes the perspiration. If OF MINUTE ORIFICES these become obstructed, skin diseases ensue of the gon alth suffers, Both these une desirable consequences are averted and the skin preserved of rendered clear and radiant by GLuxx's SULPHUR Soar. 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