The New York Herald Newspaper, August 25, 1873, Page 3

nt THE THIRD TERM. An Expression of the President’s Feeling. He Points the Moral of Colfax’s Declination and Thinks it Botter Himself to Wait Until He Is Asked. BUTLER’S VIEWS. Nothing to Fear---Despotism Foreign to the Spirit ‘of the Age. WASHINGTON OPINIONS. Editorial Thoughts on Cwesarism Kindled in. the White House and Toned in the "Shadow of the Capitol. Maine and Massachusetts on the Situation. Jeurnalistic Judgment of the “Hub.” President Grant’s Views. ’ $ WasHInGTon, August 23, 1873, At the time Andrew Johnson was President, Ben Wade, President of the Senate and next in suc- session for lodgings in the White House, U. 8. Grant as General of the Army and had his headquarters on Seventeenth street. One day when Congress was pitching into Andy right and left the question was discussed by Grant, Rawlins and other members of ‘nls staff, whether Johnson or Wade was neces- - sary for the good of the republican party. The » sbility of both was talked over, when Grant tmded the conversation with the following re- mark :—“Rawlins, my EXPERIENCE DURING THE WAR ronvinced me that when an officer thought suc- tess depended upon his existence army disci- * pline required that such an officer should be f@isabused of his hear politicians conceit. And when I prate about ‘What can the party do without him? I say 40 «myself, ‘What will the poor country @o when that man dies Itseems to me such sotions are inconsistent with our form of govern- at, Where no man has absolute authority and all are dependent upon the will of the people.’ Passing over a period of seven years finds the Beneral a President and quietly enjoying the seclu- ‘vion of his summer resort at Long Branch. The President reads the papers, the HERALD particu- larly: and more than that, Iam well iniormed, has VAREFULLY READ ALL THE ARTICLES ON’ CESARISM. A few evenings before he left the Branch on his sorthern tour the articles referred to were the. wpic of conversation among those familiar as his household, with two or three visitors, relatives of the family. During the conversation the ‘President was 8 good listener, leisurely puffing his cigar, with his dexter leg resting*>n tne left, when the question was asked what he thought of the discussion. “Why,” he calmly replied, “it doesn’t interest me in the least. It is no business of mine to manage the politics of the country. The execution of the Aunties of the office of President are quite as much as one man can attend to, and a good deal more than I find agreeable. It is pretty well known that {reluctantly consented to give up my commission as General, even when the success of the republi- tan party was assured; but, having accepted the nomination, I was bound to stand by it. The sec- Ond nomination was equally unsought, though | freely told my friends I thought the party owed me & vindication for having imposed with the office the aspersions of their political enemios. I didn’t bargain for that, and thought the charges re- ected more justly upon the party for haVing made the mistake. I was perfectly satia- Ged what the result would be at Phila- @elphia, as I was of what would follow in November. 1t was none of my business except te accept or decline a privilege I know some of our friends would be glad to have. Let me see; this is August—March to August is five months, and now the newspapers are anxious to know if I am to serve a third term when the second is hardly be- gon. The way Congress has treated all of my recommendations doesn’t make me appear either influential or dangerous. I often think of LINCOLN’S ANSWER ‘tothe importunate applicant for army honors—‘I hhaven’t any influence with this administration, my (fiend; you will have to appeal to Congress.’ If the newspapers want to know whether I wiil be re- mominated why don’t they quiz the party that @lected me?” ¥ “Why don’t you silence this squabble by au- mouncing your intention to retire to private life at the end of the term?’ asked one of the company, jokingly. The President promptly answered—“You forge THE FATE OF COLFAX. ‘Will it not be time enough to refuse when the re- fasal is at my disposal?” Opinions of Gen. Btnjamin F. Buticr. Bay ViEw, GLOUCESTER, Mass., } ‘August 23, 1873, General Butler, notwithstanding the political ‘Strife in which he is so actively engaged, manages to find a few leisure moments for recreation at his harming summer resort down here in old Essex. It is undoubdtediy one of the finest in Eastern Massachusetts, and although modest and unpre- tending in architecvure and finish, it nevertheless ‘embraces all those modern arrangements for com- sort and convenience which are the delight of those who seek @ quiet and seciuaea retreat, far away from the turmoils of business and the beseechings aud 2azoyances of office-seekers, It is situated on @ sight eminence, & quarter of a mile or so from the highway, flanked on all sides by a beau- uml sloping lawn, and trom the rear and eastern verandas can be had an almost un- ‘obstructed view of the broad Atlantic, South and west rise up miniature mountains, covered with a forest of trees of names, sizes and descriptions too ‘Dumerous to mention. The lawn is surroanded by ® substantial wall, composed of large, square biocks of the famous Cape Ann granite, the same @ighty material of which theeBay View mansion itself is built, Here it is, three miles or there- abouts from the busy town of Gloucester, and thirty-five miles from the “Hub of the Universe” ‘that General Butler passes bis summey months. To see him here one can hardly realize that te i the mighty terror’ of half the politicians in tte land and the worry of shree-lourths of tie party newspapers. The volumes . of abuse which. are da/”y aimed pt him, however, seldom, if ever, d%urb his serenity. He goes along in te even tenor of bis way, never deigning to notice, the multitude of insinuations which are thrown ont against him, Obly those who make Girect charges affecting his political sincerity and Personal integrity command his attention. His Teply to the bold charges made against him by Parson Fay, of Soushboro, is a specimen of his man- Rer in vindicating himself from positive assaults upon his character; and probably we shall be tur- nished with another spicy illustration when hé re plies to Congressman Hoar, at Worcester, next Tuesday evening. after the customary greetings the conversation’ between the General and the HERALD correspond- ent quickly turned to politics, He said he had read very carefully the editorials in the HERALD upon the subject of Cwsarism, intimating at the same time that he regarded as UNCALLED POR all alarms of a despotism in this country. T told him that ii:he had po objections I would like to listen to his views m detail upon the sub- ject, “Weill,” responded the General, “yon must know that our people are educated by tradition, if nat by the public policy of the country, not to believe that any man can make himself permanent. Every- thing radiates from the peeple, and everything radiates from their voice and votes, I don’t beheve the thought ever entered any sane man’s mind that he would try to seize on the government for himself. Indeed, the people of England have not for many hundred years had such a thing as an attempt to seize the government. If there was a revolution there to-day of the most radical kind it would inevitably end in a representative govern- ment.?? . “Well, how about this country ?’? “It is my firm velief that there is NOTHING TO FEAR of any eata8trophe to this government to prevent the people from re-electing @ President as many times as they choose; and the fact of a re-election of any one man for President three or as many times as they choose would only prove that his administration was so satisfactory to the people that they didn’t desire a change. But ii, re- jying on such a re-election, any President should attempt to establish himself permanently against the will of the people, he would be swept away as if by a whirlwind. The idea of any one man holding the government against the will of the people is entirely _ FOREIGN TO THE GENIOS OF THE AGE, The people of this country will, upon any emer- gency, interpose the most extraordinary and un- limited powers of the. government—far beyond what aay despot abroad conid exercise with safety to his Iite—but with the understanding, impited, that the exigency ceasing the exercise of the pow- ers must cease. Of this we had plenty of examples during the war. The pedple gave great powers, but resumed them again without a shock to the stability of the government or the constitution. They would do the same again if an emergency should arise. That is about the long and ‘short of it, and none of us need have any fears of a despot- ism.” f Mr. Whitelaw Reid, of the New York i Tribane. ; Mr. Whitelaw Reid, editor of the Tribune, wel- comed the HERALD representative to his sanctum, in that portion of the old Tribune Building which is yet standing. On every side were to be seen the encroachments of the builders, who are gradually replacing the time-honored structure by a new and stately edifice. Yet nearly all the paraphernalia of the old room, as remembered by former visitors, was to be seen in the new one, The tall chest of drawers, surmounted by-a plaster statuette of the late Horace Greeley, occupied the same relative po- sition between the windows. Over the desk of the editor hung in a frame a_ time-worn copy of the* Pennsylvania Gazette, boast- ing of a date far anterior to that which marks the rise of metropolitan journalism as now | Managed. The building rang with the noise at- tendant upon the demolition of the present struc- ture, but Mr, Reid despatched his business with the usual rapidity. For some moments the din was almost deafening, but the work of opening, destroying, pigeon-holing and classifying the Jet- ters of a large correspondence was steadily pro- ceeded with. THE DISCUSSION PREMATURE, “Thave little desire,” said Mr. Reid, in answer to a question from the HERALD representative, “to come before the public in this way. I have suMfcient opportunity to express my opinion through the Tribune, The discussion of “Cesar. ism” or imperialism at this time is chiefly a monument of the enterprise of the HERALD. There is no pregent fear, to my mind, and oniy a possible future danger. But fhe people of the country are certainly beginning to manifest a decided prefer- ence for long terms of the Presidential office. They dislike change, because it entails frequent revolutions of policy and affects commercial values, Financial men hesitate to venture upon the elec tion of a new President, whose policy they do not comprehend, or, if they do understand it, whose. ideas are at variance with those held by the incum- bent ofthe White House. Things go along easily now. The government is kept somewhat in the background, but the head of it prospers and en- joys himself.” OLD POLITICAL PARTIES DEAD, “What do you conceive to be the prospective policy of the republican or office-holding party ?"? asked the HERALD representative. “There is no republican party,” replied Mr. Reid. “The issues which made the democratic and re- publican parties what they once were are all dead. The republican party developed from a violent political opposition to slavery. This antagonism- finally culminated in war; the party shouldered the respensibility of the great struggle. Then it had to restore the country; this it did. All that its leaders and organizers could then possibly have wished was the acquiescence of the minority in its great work. This it received when the demo- cratic party accepted the situation, The mis- sion of the republican party was triumphantly concluded by Horace, Greeley at Baltimore, when the last point in the practical results of its Policy before and during the war was accepted by its opponents, and the whole people of the United States thus stood definitely committed to what it had fought for. To-day the only difrer- ence between the two great political elements of this ceuntry is that one Is in oMce and that the other is ont.” “But,” added the HERALD representative, “if you deny that there isa republican party, there is, at least, a party that nas the offices. What is likely to be its attitude?” “It is not a safe thing to attempt to forecast the policy Sf the office-holding party. 1 hardly think it will be ‘Grant and a third term.’ There are at Jeast three men among the leaders of the party who confidently believe that they are entitied to the succession, and that Grant owes to them and to the political influences they gathered about him his present term. These are Mr. Morton, of Indiana; Mr. Conkling, of New York, and Mr. Blaine, of Maine. ‘Whether these men will surrender their aspirations or not remains to be geen. Certain it is that any of the three would rather have Grant President a third time than witness the elec- tion of either of his two rivals.” “Would Grant accept the office if nominated?” “He certainly would, and would do so ‘with a philosopher’s composure,” replied Mr. Reid, THE ENTHUSIASM OF THR VICTORS IS ENDED, “Do you think that there is a possibility of open- ing up # new military career for General Grant, the reward of success in which would be a claim for another term?” asked the HERALD representa- tive. “The re-election of General Grant can scarcely depend upon his past military record. Although ‘We cannot tell the influence which his war record May yet have upon the people, it is safe, from the general tone of the coun- try in regard to military ofice-hold- ers, to say that the men who did the fighting in the ranks: are beginning to think ‘hat the officers who reaped all the fame in the war have already had enough of the political honots of peace, The Mexican war furnished glory enough for One Presidential term, but not for two. The foror OF vicvpry ip the great war for the Union has been enough to carry General Grant to the White House | change in the government of the United States as for two terms, 1+18 very doubtful whether it cam | would admit of a Chief Executive oficer holding do the same thing for him a thira time.’? GRANT’S HARD SENSE. r “Is there, in your opinion, Mr. Reid, a growing feeling of inatfference among the people of the nation as to the political future of the govern- ment?” asked the HERALD representative. “Undeubtedly. One of the results of the great war has been to blunt the popular sense of indi- vidual rights. We have grown accustomed to see- ing the government exercise extraordi- Dary prerogatives and have grown in- different to violations of law by heads of departments. Twelve years ago such stretches of authority as the Treasury Department has been guilty of in regard to the Syndicate would have driven out the Secretary, if not led to his im- peachment. Then, there is no doubt that a good many people—especially capitalists, who are always timid and conservative—are entertain- img even more than heretofore a dislike to the element of change, which is an essential feature of republican institutions. Probably most of them would be very angry if told they were opposed to republicanism itself; but, in effect, that is what their opposition to change leads to. Too many of our financiers, railroad men and manufacturers want a strong, stable and permanent government, and are not overscrupulous as. to the means by which it is attained,” “Who are the third-term people ?” j “First of all the oMce-holders. The men who make money under an existing administration, whether of the government or of any particular department, are always opposed to a change in it. If there is corruption going on in any particular department you may be sure that the corruption- iste will fill all the avenues to the public ear with denunciations of the marplots who want to make a disturbance, The earthworms, snugly ensconced under a stone, don’t like to be leit wriggling in sunlight by having # turned over.” “Do you beliéve Grant himself is at work for a third term?” “Not actively. Probably he has hardly acknowl- edged to himself yet that he would like it, but he is surrounded by toadies and fatterers, who will lose no opportunity ‘of whispering in his ear the things which they think it would be pleasant for him to listen to. He doubtless has plenty of third- term talk, and may be willing enough to have the office-holders see what they can do towards feeling the public pulse. But he has scarcely an element of the usurper in him. In your sense he has not the first trait of a Cesar, scarcely even the am- bition. Besides, although not at ail such a great man as the mass of the people believe him, he is immensely more able than many of his opponents have supposed. He has plenty of hard horse sense, and before the spring of 1876 he will have discovered that the people will not tolerate the presumption of a third term. No doubt, however, he will want to name his successor, and about the man whom he favors you may be sure of two things—he will be a military man, and he will not be the present head of the army. Meantime, when Morton and company get that idea fairly active in their heads, there will be a chance fer some very pretty spectacles in the way of new political combinations. f THE EDITORIAL ENSE OF THE WASHING- ' ‘TON PRESS, Crosby 8S. Noyes, of the Star. Your correspondent, secking to obtain the views of the men who direct the newspapers in Wakh- ington upon the subject of Cesarism, called first upon Mr. Crosby 8, Noyes, eaitor of the Star, Beiug courteously received, the following conversa- tion at once was entered on:— QORRESPONDENT—What do you tifink of the mat- ter of General Grant’s re-election for a third term? Mr. NoyEs—Well, if it should come about it will be the HERALD that did it. CoRRESPONDENT—Indeed ! How do you make that | out? Mr. NoyEs—Ohb, well, the HERALD has originateq the whole thing. It has raised the issue and got EVERYBODY DISCUSSING IT AND TAKING SIDES in the matter. Had the question’ nevet been raised in all probability General Grant on the one hand and the people on the other would have taken it as a matter of course that he was to retire at the end of his present term, The HERALD, by its adroit engineering of the topic, is eliciting public opinion im a way that promises to precipitate the whole question of who shall be the next President three years in advance. It looks now as if the next can- vass might be a repetition of the Jast. Then the Politicians kept up their abuse of Grant until it became finally a matter of personal reputation with him to accept @ renomination and re-eiection ‘as an endorsement of his course by the people. CORRESPONDENT—Do you think General Grant seeks a renomination ? Mr. Noygs—I don’t believe that, at present, Gen- eral Grant wants or expects a renomination, but it is quite possible that he may be abused enough by the politicians and by personal enemies to cause the people to take it into their heads to give him THE. ENDORSEMENT OF A THIRD TERM. The HERALD has given thgm the cue, and a good many of them are saying “Why not?’ Until the question was sprung by your paper many people had an idea that there was some constitutional or legal bar to a third term, but they find now that there is really no hindrance except usage, and some seem to think that there is no good reason why the civil service tenure of office for experience and qualifications may not apply tothe Chief Magis- trate as well as to those below; at least to the extent of @ dozen years. The people, in fact, at the last election overruled precisely the same ob- jections that are now urged against a third term; and it is well known that Washington and Jackson could have been readily elected for a third term had they cared for it. CORRESPONDENT—In your opinion is a thira term a good thing? Mr. Noygs—Well, it would be AN AWKWARD PRECEDENT to establish. Probably it would lead to an amend- ment of the constitution making Presidents inell- gible for re-election and lengthening the Presiden- tial term to eight years, CoRRESPONDENT—What, will be General Grant's chances of election if renominated? Mr. NorEs—Very good, Ishoula say. Of course itis possible he may lose his hold on the people in the next three years, but the same causes that would detract from his popularity with the public ‘would also hinder his renomination. But at pres- ent he undouvtedly ds very well with the country. His financial policy, without being bril- hant, is-felt to be safe, and he theretore STANDS WELL WITH THE SOLID MEN. It must be conceded that he makes no great mis- takes, and always recedes promptly when he finds the ice thin, ag in the St. Domingo business. He is not particularly vulnerable on oy new line of at- tack, The people discounted at the last election all the charges that were expected to be so damag- ing, of nepotism, accepting presents, &c. CORRESPONDENT— What is your OPINION OF THE CABSARISM BUSINESS ? Mr. Noyes—I think it one of the most remark- able achievements the H&RALD ever made, The HERALD, by teats of news enterprise, or by raising exciting and popular topics, always manages to fully occupy the attention of the pubitc. No other paper, certainly, could have managed to invent @ Owsar out ofa eee unpretending, matter-of-fact personage like General Grant, and set all the world to straining their eyes to detect the likeness. The HERALD is @ wonderful paper, and ih alertness, tact and enterprise has never distinguished itself more than in the present decade, Henry Reed, of the Washington Capital. Mr. Reed was discovered seated in a niche of moderate dimensions, which constitutes the assail- able portion of the editorial territory of the estab- lishment, deeply absorbed in the last “Report of the Commissioner of Agriculture,” a number of copies of which, together with a Holy Bible, a Heratp Almanac and the last edition of the “Congressional Directory” constitated the visible library of the concern. So interested was mr. Reet! in his studies that it was tot without some diMiculty he was made to comprehend that His views were desired by tlie Hgratp upon the sub- ject indicated. When that work was finally accom- plished the conversation began and proceeded as Jollows:— *ComnesronpENt—What, Mr. Reed, are your thoughts upon Cesarism? Mr. Regp—By Owsarism, for the present pur- ‘Rages I suppese you mean sych a revolutionsry | sumed his explorations in the agricultu his place independently of the suffrages of the | extraora States or the formal consent of tne people, He would do this by meana of some species of power, physical or moral—through actual coercion or in- tamidation, CoRRESPONDENT—Certainly. Mr. REED—I am not in love with usurpations under any circumstances, though in some cases they seem to be necessary, However benign and | William J. Murtag: advantageous to the country the rule of a usurper may be, the PEOPLE SEEM ALWAYS TO REMEMBER AND RESENT | “can gave his views thus cautiously :—‘I am of the the fact that his power was not legitimately ac- | Opinion that this discussion ts the shrewdest adver- quired. It was not so much fear of practical des- | ising dodge yet perpetrated by the enterprising potism as it was hatred of illegitimacy which took the life of Julius Cwsar and left the work of estab- Ushing the Empire to his nephew, probably one of the most skilful politicians that ever lived. Prop- erly interpreted, the imperial lives of the two Na- poleons were struggles to overcome the disadvan- tages of an irregular ac lon to power, and the history of the life of Oliver Cromwell is a nto the same effect, CORRESPONDENT—But you say in some cases the | age, imperial usurper seems to be necessary ? Mr. REED—Certainly governmonts grow out of | g, necessities, special powers of gevernment out of special necessities, CQwsar, Cromwell and the Napoleons were indicated by the political con- ditions of their respective times and countries. CORRESPONDENT—Then why are you opposed to Ceesarism ? Mr. ReED—Well, | am opposed to getting intoa situation which shall render it necessary. If we , Shall get into that situation the chance will be be- tween anarchy and despotism; for the disease of the emer of Which the latter 1s the most effectual remedy. CORRESPONDENT—Then why do you say that Ceesarism is illegitimate ? Mr. ResD—I do not say so. I say that the people never seem to forget its FORMAL ILLEGITIMACY. & usurpen hag always two forces against which to contend, the resentment of the people and the ambition of rivals studious for their own advan- beg to stir the people to mutiny. ORRESPONDENT—But do you think there is any wer Of such a condition in the United States a8 Il make Cesarism a welcome resource ?. Mr. REED—It is to be hoped there is not, but it is to be feared that there is. ‘To consider all the ele- ments of the present condition and their Peete would require more space tuan is allowable. We have become a composite people—are getting to be more and more so continually, , Compositism is social adarchy, and SOCIAL ANARCHY works the extinguishment of that common moral sense whichtis the sole dependence tor purity and permanency in government. 1g would be a worthy study for a Statesman to trace the effect of our race intermixtures tq their consequences in politi.’ cal demoralization. CORRESPONDENT—But what of General Grant? Is he to be the Owsar, and has he in him the elements of @ usurper and an emperor ? Mr, REED—With my present estimate of his char- acter, I think there is little probability of General Grant becoming the Emperor of America, He may permit a great deal of wrong, and do much to pre- pure the Way for another; but that he will make the bold leap from the Presidential cha 1 the imperial throne I do not now apprehend. Comamee Dans Opon what do you found your opinion’ Mr. REED—Upon several things. General Grant has never, so iar as [ have heard, manitested any innate tical ambition, He never ran for con- stable, manipulated a ward meeting or sought a seat in a City council or a legisiature. He dritted into the army by the natural set of the current at | the beginning of the war; dritted into the com- mand; driited into the place of commander-in- chiel, and finally drifted into the Presidency. There is in him very little of that propensity to | look higher and use all available means tor his own elevation which stimulates the politician to actv- ity and makes him preternaturally watchtul of | avery event by which his own fortunes may be af- fected. Political audacity is a natural endowment, It can neitner be learned nor imitated, and of this | species of intrepidity the life of General Grant at. | fords little evidence. In other words, 1 GENERAL GRANT DOES NOT BELONG TO THE MASTEN CLASS | of mankind—that enterprising order ot humanity which mstinctivery directs as well as boldly exe- | cutes. On the contrary, he oelongs to the class | which naturally 1s amenable to direction, He has | that species o: faithiuiness which impels him to do that which 1s appotnted to him as weil as he knows. It was this which took him through the curriculum of the military demy. He was a correct porter, @ correct clerk, a correct subordinate in a public department. hte fought the war, with the govern- Inent behind itm, and without doubt rendered as service as he was capabie of rendering. LU he lid-not do the best that could have been done it wi use the best was above his capacity. He ‘obe; because the interest of obedience was a part of his character. His deieets as a President are due to the Jact that his character wants the litical elements, so that he can neither compre- end statesmanship as a science nor administer it as an art. where he is, supreme above legitimate personal direction, he lacks the sagacity or the means to surround bimself with proper counsellors, and his administration drifts without rule or fixed points of departure, As a ruler his character resembles that of A FACILE PRINCE described by Bolingbroke, not intentionally bad, but destitute of the wisdom and courage essential to being good. From such a man much that is ig- nominious and corrupt m men and measures may gain the encouragement of sutterance, but he wiil | commit no wholesale usurpation, + CORRESPONDENT—Do you not think, Mr. Reed, more is to be feared irom the republican party than its representative? Is it not the tendency of that party to establish itself as the one true politi- cal church catholic in Jaith and iniallible im its teachings? Mr. REED—There can be no doubt of that. ‘Ihere is not a question arising but what tnat party con- siders itself able to handie, [t has bigh tariiy and low tariff, tree trade and protectionists, universal suffrage and universal liberty members; it nas poor and rich, without regard to nationality; is strong in the South, stronger in the West, and feels competent to dispose of every heresy. If Grant is renominated and the republican party re- mains intact, 1 have not the least doubt but he will be elected. With this our interview ended. Mr. Reed re- reports, and your correspondent, with a small dog barking at his heels, groped his way out of the sanctum and rejoiced in the sunlight, which for ten days has not been seen in Washington, Thomas B. ot the Florence, Garette. From 1852 to 1861 there was in Congress from Philadelphia. a genuine specimen of the old hunker democracy, Not one of your weak-kneed, tender- hearted, easily-frightened politicians, but a regular cavalrymian on blooded stock, who swore by Jetfer- son and Jackson, and later swore by Johnson and at Johnson, with more vehemence than any man weighing less than 200 pounds, whose political mis- fortunes compelled him to own and edit a news- paper. In the early days of negro suffrage in the District he pointed out with his right hand the ter- rible evils which would come on this country on account of the election of Grant, and with his left drew dark pictures of the future at ward meetings. He was @ compound of the Jeffersonian, Jackson- jan and Jobnsonian democracy. Imperturbable. Nothing could change him, Yet see what AN EFFECT the socjety of Washington will have on such a man. Colonel Florence, it may be said ‘or the enlight- enment of the uninformed reader, is editor of the Washington Sunday Gazette. The following is the interview :— CORRESPONDENT—Colone! Florence, What do you think of the agitation of the subject of Cesarism? COLONEL—Cersarism means, I suppose, that Gen- eral Grant 18 in for this rdle; that a third term is bis ambition, and that through it he means to re- enact the little bit of history to which this term re- fers, and thus assume the forms and trappings of imperialism im the very citadel where liberty and | equal rights are enthroned. * | CORRESPONDENT—Do you think, Colonel, that there is anything in the poiltical horizon warrant- ing this discussion? COLONEL—NO, sir, Ido not. Standing right here, under the eaves of the Capitol, and almost under the datly shadow of Generali Grant’s presence, [ have yet to gee the first sign of an indication com- ing trom the White House that goes to show any- thing of this kind. I have opened my e: with a double effort.at clearness, to see what all this means; and in order to be reassured I searched anew for the whereabouts of this great Sunday | would insist upon his renomination, and TI am as- | then be between a Grant party and all other ele- _ NEW YORK HERALD, MONDAY, AUGUST 25, 1873—TRIPLE SHEET. litical ratiocination, as a sort of let up to the dog than to anything else. - ENT—But how do you é: the interest manifested by the press throughout the country on this dog: subject? CoLONEL—We ‘ account for these ab- normal demonstrations aimoag restless, specula- tive friends, who indulge in these summer esca- pades, They must have them, and this is what’s nota ort ontind Ys heaps Ht . o @ dogs! There nothing in it, Let it pass, ia of the National Republican. The editor and proprietor of the National Repub- HERALD upon the reading public of America. The idea of Casarism is an insult to the patriotism ot President Grant and the intelligence of our people. Regarding @ third term, I can only say that 1 be- Meve the people. will settle that question in their own way and at the proper time, with the fortunate impulse which has always directed them in the preservation of our government,” Charles P. Kimball, of Portland. At the Kearsarge House, North Conway, a few lay@ ago @ correspondent of the HERALD met Mr. Charlies P. Kimball, late the democratic candidate for Governor of Maine, and the commissioner from that State tor the centennial celebration of 1876, Mr. Kimball was requested to give his views upon the third term, and said :— . “The republican party learned wisdom by their mistakes, like the salary grab and Crédit Mobilier, and they will, I think, not commit the additional error of nominating Grant for a third time, but Tather select some well known politician like Conkling, Washburne or Blaine. On either hand, if bord continue to make mistakes and are in doubt bout success in. the next election, they will re- nominate Grant and ride into power upon his war record,’? CORRESPONDENT—What is your opinion as to Grant's desire tg fill the oMlce another term ? Mr. KripaLi—I do not know exough about that to give an opinion. CORRESPONDENT—What would be-the attitude of the republicans of Maine if he were renominated ? Would they blindly walk up and vote tor him, or ‘Youls they throw off the party yoke and bolt the eke Mr. KIMBALL—Yes, I believe they would, as a jena support Grant if renominated. Maine is opelessly republican, and unless there are changes the eae will follow the lead of their party candidates. There is no chance of them breaking. If he is nominated there will be this argument— that as he is making a better President now than during the first term, so he will likely make a better President the third term than he did durmg the second, as he will have had more experience. Un- leas there is a great cnange in the pubile feeling of the republican party Grant will be their choice in 1876. Whether he will be ready to go intoa fight to secure the nomination is doubtiul, My own opinion is that his Cabinet officers willdo more to secure his renomination than he will himself, and it 1s not unlikely that he will succeed in gaining a third term, Mr. Adams, of the Portland Daily Argus. Ihave recently had a brief chat with Mr, Adams, editor of the Portland Argus, the leading demo- cratic journal of Maine, and give you the interview below :— ‘ CORRESPONDENT—Mr. Adams, may J inquire your opinion of the question now being raised as to Grant’s candidacy in 1876 for the Presidency ? Mr, ADAMs—I think that there is a large proba- bility that the men surrounding Grant will insist upon his renomination, and the character of the man points directly to his acceptance of it, It is diMcult to make any republican here believe that there is @ possibility of it. It seems to be as- sumed by them that it nominated there is no chance of his election. Every one speaks as though it would not be tolerated. CORRESPONDENT—Then you have no doubt: but ® that the leaders of the republican party really con- template running him again ? Mr. ADAMS—When you say ‘The rings and oftice-holders “leaders” I would except some of them. sured that if they say “Nominate Grant” and he says “Yes” he will have it certain. But [ think his renomination would break up the ‘republican party and defeat his election. ‘The contest would ments combined in opposition, CORRESPONDENT—-And you have no doubt but that he aspires to a thi d election? Mr. ADAMS—Not a particle of doubt; every indi- [ 3 threw his hat and was forever afterwar warm admirer of the Father of His Country, Gen. eral Grant smokes, but I uke him nevertneless,” “f infer then, Mr. Haskell, that this third term peso is little out of your line just at this e' “That's itexactly. Idon'’t think we ought tc Waste much time in talking about it now. 1? REMINDS ME of what some of the Massachusetts soldiers did in the early war. A large battalion was sent trom the eastern to reinforce some troops in the western part of the State, and when they got a little ways out of Boston they halted to discuss theology, and one whole day was consumed in debating whether or not the Lord ascendéd with His clothes on.” After a few more remarks not bearing particu- larly upon Cwsarism, I lett Mr. Haskell alone in tis sanctum, | rug 4 to come around again in the course of two or three years and find out what he Shouges about electing General Grant for a third Edwin B. Haskell, of the Boston Herald. Mr. “Ned”? Haskell, the managing editor of the Boston Herald, was not in nis sanctum when } called, but one of the sub-editors told me that | Would probably find him rusticating somewhere among the White Mountains of New Hampshire. As the information was somewhat indefinite I con. cluded to wait a few days until his return. The frigid weather caused him to linger among the hills only @ few days, and he was among the influx of discouraged and disgusted tourists who came down on the afternoon train yesterday, 1 imme diately called upon the distinguished journalist and accomplished ‘orator at his palatial residence m Chelsea. He had removed the dust of travel, par- taken of an evening meal, and was at the moment of my calling indulging (@ la Grant) in a iragrant Havana upon the veranda of the mansion. The object of my visi, having been concisely stated, Mr. Haskell proceeded to express not only his willingness to be freely interviewed, but de- cldted with much enthusiasm his anproyal of the HERALD’s Idea in getting the views of the journal- ists of the country upon a question of such grave importance. “During my absence from editorial labors for the past tew days,’’ he opserved, ‘I have given this third term question more consideration than when I was in the harness over in the office.” “Ltake it, then, you are not one of those who ‘sink the shop’ when you are off on a vacation?” I observed inquiringly. “Generally speaking Ido; but since I have been away tothe mountains I have had several oppor- tunities of SERING GENERAL GRANT, AND IN MEETING HIM FACE 10 FACE T could not help but think of him as a possible— not probable—future despot of the American peo- ple. ‘fo look at him he does not seem the hero that, he really is. I speak of him as a hero, for I consci- entiously believe him to be one. His career,as a soldier is too fresh in my mind to ignore the great service which he has rendered all loyal Ameri- cans.” , “Yes, of course, but what do you think of hinf as President—as Chief Magistrate—as a ruler in thes of peace?” ‘ “There, now you are coming atit. I like hard questions like these. If you have ever read the Roston Herald carefully during the last four or five years you must have noticed tnat there have been many of nis acts which I have praised and many which I have condemned, The Boston Herald, as you know, is not a party organ, but AN INDEPRNDEMG. LIVES NEWSPAPER, and it discusses the acts of public servants in a fearless manner. The New York HeEraup, | am glad to see, is a paper of that description, and if we had more of them in the country political cor- ruption would be less unknown than during the past few years. Grant's reconstruction policy in the South I have freely criticised, and his milk and water manner of dealing. with the noble red man has trequently excited my indignation.” “Weil, what have you ever lound to admire ip his administration?” “Oh, & [ks many things. He had the Alabama business fixed up decently well, and, ocegsionally, the financial policy of his administration has been as near perfect as if I bad beén running it myself. We won't talknow about the past, Let us turh our atte tion to the pending questions of the day.” “The matter of his election to a third term has attracted considerable attention lately,” I ob- served, “and itis upon this particular question that I ,Would hike to have youexpress yourselt freely.’ “Yea, [ suppose so,” smilingly. “That HenaLp of yours was the first to stir up the Ciesarism busi- ness, and I looked upon it at the time as about AS HUGE A JOKE | cation points to it. | _ CoRRESPONDENT—And, if elected a third time, would it not be a step towards his permanent ad- ministration of the President's functions? Mr. Apams—It most certainly would, for it would be an election in opposition to the wishes of three- fourths of the people of the States, com- passed by means of the same kind as the last cam- paign, exerted to a much greater extent—I mean bribery and the use of money. CORRESPONDENT—Referring to the republicans, | what portion of them would oppose his re-election? Mr. ADAM8—The republicans not in office would oppose his re-election almost toa mau, I believe that a portion of the office-helders would also ob- ject to his renomination, but nearly all would be whipped’ into giving him their support to save themselves from fo cations re These are briefly my views upon the subject. J can say no more. VIEWS OF BOSTON JOURNALISTS. AIRES TET Wiese The ‘we’? of the Journal, although loyal to General Grant and the party, don’t believe in him or any other man for more than eight years ata time. The whole corps of political writers are united upon this sentinient. Two terms is enough, they say, and your correspondent was authorized to say to the New York HERALD read- ers that if the time should ever come when Grant is again @ Presidential candidate the Boston Journal will oppose his nomination with the same industry and sincerity that It ‘now opposes the nomination of General Butler jor Governor of Massachusetts, Ys D. N. Haskell, of the Boston Transcript. I first called upon Mr. Haskell, the veteran editor and political observer of the Boston Evening Tran- script. The Transcript, besides being the generally | admitted and universally recognized tea-table journal of the “Hub,” is also regarded as an organ ‘of some avcount in the matter of local and general | politics. Of course, it is republican in faith, loyay , to the administration first, last “and always, | although its likes and dislikes are always expressed | im very choice and guarded language. It is anti- Butler all the way to the core, but it is nevertheless AN ENTHUSIASTIC SUPPORTER .OF GENERAL GRANT. Although Mr. Haskell does not take much stock in the Cwsarism discussions of the day 1 have grave doubts if he and the journal which he so ably conducts woula not support Mr, Grant if he should ever be # candidate for the third term. “T have seen considerable in the HERaLp about this third term business,’ observed Mr. Haskell, when I disclosed to him the purpose of my visit; “put I must confess that all this talk seems to me to be utterly useless. THE QUESTION [8 NOT A PRACTICAL ONE for the American press to discuss justnow. We must remember that General Grant has not finished the first year of his second term yet, and it seems idle to commence growling three years in advance about his being elected for a third term.” “But you know, Mr. Haskell, there are a great many journals and @ great many politicians who sincerely believe that Grant and his triends are even now laying pipe for the perpetuation of the powers of the present administration ” “yes, that may be; but, as I said before, the question does not seem practical. It may be all very well for your metropoliton dailies to talk Casarism, for it jurnishes you with 4 GOOD DOG-DAY SENSATION. Tsee afew papers agitating The subject persist- enuy, but [ hear nothing about it among the peo- le. ks “po you think Grant or his immediate political friends are sincerely looking forward to his third election?” “Thave never seen anything to warrant the sus- picion even. I have, since the adjournment of Congress, had social chats with such men as Mr. Wilson, Mr. Hoar and Mr. Boutwell, and they have never alluded to Cesarism cor in the way ofa joke. So far as regarding Gene king. I have tried to find his haunts and discover reludes to his coi but all in vain. The capital isin repese; the te House itself is as eoewes and quiet as @ still summer morn. No read conspirators there; no soldiers tramping or armed watchmen pacing about; indeed, the whole scene is just as ever before. structed, and the outlook is clear and fair. CORRESPONDENT—What do you think of tne HERALD editorials on this subject ? CoLoNEL—Why does .the HERALD prate and Leet ay in this Saeeerating manner about this ing? Does it believe what it so forcibly ad- vances? 1 more than half believe it does not; for, with the belore me, and the very, very upon which t! um p- The view is unob- Grant as ambi- tious to be ‘King of America,’ they ae he is NOT THAT KIND OF A MAN. On the contrary, they say that he is remarkably free from those aire and aspirations which might be expected to exist witha soldier of high rank. 1 have always bim as @ whole-souled jure man, and one eminently fit to be President of he United Bem He is aoa ey ie think, beyond the average of men, this "conversation I cannot but recall what he said in his letter of acceptance when he was nominated @ second time. You remember he ad- mitted that there might have been faults in his first, administration, put he hoped that (if again aie RMS tic” Gan tao tat ve ae in ) ‘and that is agood one. Of NOTHING WORSE THAN SMOKE fault with him on CS een parker, “nad grave he immaculate quallt}e of George ‘until he read where that ov one { of Cesarism were very seriously and boldly e: as Wise’s ocean balloon voyage. If the professor finds that easterly current above I shall be tearful of @ Cesarism current here below.” : “But, Mr. Haskell, I thought from what you said a few moments ago that Cesarism in America was possible, though not probable.” “Yes, | did intimate that, and you must remem- ber that it is not altogether impossivie tur Wise and his crowd to go to London in a balioon.”’* “Yet there are a great many men who believe seriously that the ocean balioon voyage will be successtul, aud also a great many who believe that it is the intention of Grant and his party to estab- lish a poiltical despotism in America.” “Tt may be his purpose, but I don’t think he will ever succeed. His trip to Maine was probabiy to ‘fix things’ to make his position stronger; but it is always the-policy of men in high oMcial positions to distribute political patronage so it will accrue to their own benefit and power. He Wants Blaine in the Senate, and Morrill must be got out of the way somehow or other, and perhaps he may step into the shoes of the late Chief Justice. But in all this I don’t see anything tending to a thture despotism, Cresarism, or whatever you may call it. I should pot tear this, even if Grant were elegted again. The people of this country won't stand any such nonsense.” “But don’t you think Grant is willing to serve his country @ while longer for fifty thousand a year ?? “That may all be; but what is the use of begin- ning to borrow trouble aboutit now? If the people want Grant for a third term, and he is alive when the time comes and willing to serve, why, they will have him. 4 Av «THEY DON’T WANT GRANT THEY WILL TAKE SOMEBODY ELSE, and Ulysses can go back to Galena, perhaps get elected Mayor, and carry out his fond desire of hawng a new sidewalk between his house and the depot. I don’t believe he will ever be President again, even if for no other reason tuan that there are so many others who want the place. Any how, there is no reason for worrying much about the Presidential question either this year or next.” “ltr remember right, Mr, Haskell, there was @ leader in your paper not long since, in which feat ressed.’? “if you read that article carefully you will notice the fears expressed about despotism related to despotism of the majority. A great people, like ours, would pot surrender its liberties to a usurpe? or to General Grant, but we might sometimes yield so far to the encroachments o! a central power or be so far carried away by party spirit that we would welcéme some one to restore order and carry out our ideas. A despotism 1s always essentially of the same spirit, and the despotism of a majority is al- ways easily conveyed to an agent, who then be. comes a dictator, The present phage of the dange in this country, you see, is THE DESPOTISM OF A MAJORITY. To carry’ out this purpose it has already violated the constitution. It has packed the Supreme Court and invaded the right of the States, It has mter. fered in the local affairs of States, and carried elections by the tree use of federal patronage and federal bayonets. But the people now are begin. ning to wake up to the condition of things, and when the proper time comes they will be heard from, and you can safely say inthe New Yors HERALD ° CA¥SARISM WILL NEVER COME DURING THE PRESEN? GENERATION.” And that was all Mr. Haskell had to say about it, Belore leaving he informed me that there would be lively times in Massachusetts very soon, or after the meeting of the Republican State Con- vention. Butler, he said, would make a hard fight, but he thought he would be defeated. Four-filths of all the newspapers are against him, and the power of the press, as Mr. Haskell remarked, is im- mense. PRESS OPINIONS. {From the Cleveland Plaindealer, August 21.) ‘The last great sensation of the New Yors Heratp is the prominence it is giving to the scheme for renominating Grant as the initiators step towards @ centralized despotism. Not i » to. this ith devottl exhaustive ers to. scheme, which it denominates “Cwsarism,” the HeRaLp has opened a regular Cesarism depart: ment, in which are reproduced the most striking editorials from the press generally on the sul i But the most characteristic feature of its — tion is the sending out of correspondents wo = lot, Our Fr knaw thet bs HERALD commissioner was in this city yesterday. » (From the Springfleld (IL) State Register, Aw gust 20.) 4 ‘The New Yor« Herao, an administration organ, which has done good service for General Grant, both as head of the armies and head of the admin. its voice against Cesarism and ¢ istratlon, rae ays, with emphasis, “We are de termined that the grasp pt a ore pape e country are rty the tradition of Rome’s tebsue byrgoese, it says:—“We do not care to trust tc geese, whose necks may be wrung before they have time to scream,” The HeRaLD’s warning voice ould not be disregarded. There is an undis. attempt by the ofice-hoiders and paid par- Gans to educate the public mind to favor tue re. election of Grant at the expiration of hin prescus teri .