The New York Herald Newspaper, February 20, 1873, Page 4

GUIZOT. \Am Interview with the Venerable and “— Tilustrious Statesman of France. LIVINGSTONE. | “THE DISCOVERY OF The Herald Deserving ‘“‘the Gratitude of Mankind.” ‘THE FIRST NAPOLEON AND GUIZOT. Guizot’s Opinions of Gambetta, Thiers, Bismarck, Eugenie, Prince Na- poleon and the Pope. PROTESTANTISM IN FRANCE. A Critical and Brilliant Estimate of Napoleon III. THE DEATH OF THE IMPERIAL PARTY. ; peri ante sho France Unfit for a Republic—Father Hya- cinthe and His Marriage—Napoleon a Tournalist, Prisoner and Oonspirator. —- FRANCE, GERMANY AND ITALY. France an Invalid and Peace Her Only Salvation. PaRIs, Jan. 81, 1873, “(HE STREBT OF THE ORATORY OF ROULE.”” These who look atanold map ef Paris, dated 7ié— copy of which 1s now hanging in the reom in which the correspondent of the HERALD is now Writing these lines—will observe that the city practically ends with what is the Madeleine. La Yillette and Belleville, two unsavory names in modern Parisian history, are modest little villages apart, with crossroads, plainly marked, and a church, surmouated by a cross, signifying that ‘God was there and then worshipped. There is a | ‘hill called Chevillot and another called Passy, and | a third, partly bill and partly town, called Mont- martre. Paris has absorbed them all since that year of memory 1776, and likewise two other vil- tages, Called Monceaux and Les Terres. Near ‘these two latter villages is the scene of Baron Haussmann’s greatest triumphs. New Paris— gaudy, open, very cold and bleak these Wintry @ays, with anow falling—covers the rural spaces. Monceaux is, perhaps, the prettiest and tiniest | park in France—paradise of mursery malds in the | warm Summer weather. The huge Arch of Tri* | amph looms up im the star of avenues, | Jooking with ghastly irony, ope would think, on | ‘the ruins of the Tuileries from one side and down | the pretentious Avenue of the Grand Army on the | other. In this section there is a narrow street | running into the Champs Elys¢es, A quiet street, | which has had its own troubles, One time it was | known as Rue Billault. Then, when Gambetta came and took to changing names to suit the vanity of his followers, it was called Rue Jules Favre. But eloquent Jules came to grief—serious grief and NEW YORK HERALD, THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 20,’ 1873~TRIPLE SHEET. ‘and his work. ‘I confess," anid M. Guisot, “that | opposed to @ repablio in France, 1 does not seem as if Father Hyactnthe would |, that mon like the Duo de Noaities and hie gonare fore the law, and @ man contd worship Jesus, Mo- hammed or Buddha, o& his comsolonce disposed him, no dally Rewspaper allied iteelf to any sect. ‘The HERALD, however, recognized the usefulness and utility of every phase Or religious faith as giv- ing strength and moral tone to # State, And, accordingly, it had adopted # pian of publishing every Monday morning full-reporss of the sermons preached by leading divines on the day before. M. Guizot listened attentively to the explanation of the HERALD's relation to religion and Christi- anity and said, “That is very curtous and interest- ing and is a proofof the religious temper of your people, a8 well as the enterprise and catholic apirit that marks the conduct of the journal.” THE FIRST NAPOLRON AND GUIZOT, While the conversation was in a desuitory cond! tion your correspondent asked M. Guizot whether he had had any personal acquaintance with Napo- leon I. “No,” was the response, “I never spoke to Napoleon L, although; of course, I saw bim on many occasions. I waa always opposed to the First Empire. During the reign of the First Napo- } leon M. de Fontanes appointed me professor of hy,. tory at the Sorbonne. An intimation. wasp ven that in my inaugural I should be ©xpp%red, or, rather, tt would be pleasing to the aut,orities, for me to speak in commendation of “the great Em- moot with any great success in France. I regard him asa thoroughly honest man, and in his now work intensely earnest, But the French mind craves logic, Frenchmen know well that there is no halting piace, NO middie ground, between athe- am and Catholicism. I mean that 4 man must bee Whole Catholic or none at all, One cannot bea half Oatholic, This is the position of Father dys. cinthe. Added to this there is a prejudice i, the minds of Frenchmon against tho Merri>“z0 of the Clergy, and the marriago of Father Vryacinthe has Offended pabito opinion gre ‘t ‘may interest you te know, perhaps, thax he‘ore he marriod he Sent to consult mo upon te gavisability of an act which, among other -{nings, would separate him forever from, cho “Church of Rome, I answered that he show think @ long time before doing 8 thing 6Q fe<ically opposed to his career and calcu- 1at24 % embarrass bis position as a reformer im the Ybruch. Furthermore I said that before marrying ‘he must make op his mind togo all lengths in Opposition to Rome, and to fool assured that he was roally i earnest and pre- Pared for all tho Contingencies of bis now situation, My daughter went to hear Father Hyacinthe preach the other Sunday at the Oratory. peror. [at once declined, and, offered M,deFon- | She tells mo. she was more impresaed with his tanes my resignation, 1 pres@ hia wish, In thewhole of my first course of lectures I did nes even mention the Emperor's name. purpose, but { had my convictions, and did not mention his name." M. Guigot did not seem dis- id not accept itmer | eloquence than by special depth or originality. in his sermons," Pausing a moment, M. Guizot saked. your correspondent if hoknew the wife of M, de Fontanes endeavored to change my | Father Myacintho. After responding, ho aald:— “L am told she is a very superior woman, and cal- culated to bave very great influence upon her posed to dwell upon the First Napoteon, and with | husband.'t this anecdote the matter dropped, GAMBETTA 4 “MAUVAIS SUSBT,"’ Asthe talk proceeded allusion was made to M. THR INTRRNAL CONDITION OF FRANOS. We came then to speak of the internal political situation of France, M, Guizot expressed himself Gambetta, and your correspondent asked M. Guizot | on this subject with a clearness ana exquisite what he thought of the young radioalleader. ‘“T choice of word and phrase which make i¢ almost have never,’ he said, ‘seen M. Gambetta. But he | a hopeless task for your correspondent to trans- is a mauvats sujet, He frequents, or has frequented, Jate and remember without marring the clearness cabarets (or, as we would say, barrooms), and 80'/ and beauty of the original. Thia was a main forth. Ihave no doubt he has more ability and more | difficulty with your correspondent ‘throughout the education than most of his followers, I believe, too, | interview, and in this report he can only hope to he 1s more moderate in his views. But one thing | present the substance and idea of the great states- as to the political position of that party, If M. | man’s observations, The color and glow, and Gambetta and his friends ever attain power they | precision of expression, which Guizot possesses In will be overwhelmed by the party of the Commune. &@ remarkable degree, your correspondent despalrs I am notsaying that M. Gambetta has any sym- | of reproduoing. pathy with the Commune or any connection with it. 1 quite acquit him of that suspicion.’ Your correspondent, rem: ring tl vile ee ieee sent ath IRRALD Te- cently, and the views there recorded, said that the Commune hated M. Gambetta more bitterly than even M. Thiers and would shoot him had they power. “Yes,’? said M. Guizot, “I agree with you. And Icannot heip belleving the Commune would have the power to shoot M. Gambetta were he again to govern Franee.”” PROTESTANTISM IN FRANCE, As the readers of the HERALD know, M. Guizot has, during his retirement, been devoting himself to the religious advancement of France, and espe- cially that of the Protestant Church. This subject seemed to interest him, and our conversation soon tended in that direction. “As you, perhaps, are aware,’ said M. Guizot, ‘I ama Protestant. The Protestant Church is in a small minority in France. I presume there are about one million Protestants in a population of 86,000,000. Nor does our membership increase. We remain stationary. In France there is a strong line of demarcation between Protestant and Catn- oltc families, for instance. Whether for good or evil, the great majority of French people are with- in the communion of the Church of Rome. They are nominally Catholics, and so far as France has any religious feeling it is Roman Catholic. Most Frenchmen are sceptical on matters of religion, but they like to see their wives and daughters de- vout.”? THE TEMPORAL POWER OF THE POPE. A question arose us to the effect of the promul- gation of the dogma ef infallibility upon the Catho- ‘lic party in Prance. M. Guizot said, ‘There can | be little question, I think, but that Cathelictsm in France has received a heavy blow from the | declaration of the dogma of Papal Infallibility. POLITICAL AND SOCIAL CONDITIONS IN FRANOB, “The /pisinal gondition of Frage," he sajd at th teryiow length, as you may easily see, Complicated. France may be divided into four great parties—the legitimists, whe follow the Comte de Chambord; the Orleans perty, to which I belong myself; tho {uperialists, who see Napolvon as their head, and those who call themselves republicans. This is the political subdivision, In addition there are classes, or social strata, which can only be broadly defined—ag, instead of an active, recognized, living aristocracy, the Revolution merely left the rem- nant of an aristocracy. We have in France the peasants, the workingmen of the towns and cities; the bourgeoisie, or the great middle, business class, who control most of the enterprises and possess most of the money; and a small upper class (classe elevée), composed of noblemen, literary men, great proprietors and so on. Looking closely at these classes we at first have the peasantry. They are by far the largest share of the population—seventy per cent as is estimated. They work hard, have industry and fidelity, but have no political foresight. The politics of a peasant lie between his interests and his imagina- tion. So long as the peasant sells his produce and meets fair markets; so long as the taxes of his commune are not high and the government con- Structs public works; so long as he sees the authorities building bridges, railroads, canals and public highways; so long a8 improvements are being made which increase the value of his lands and add tohis yearly earnings, the peasant cares little wbo rules over him or what form of govern- ment France possesses, This will explain that love of the Empire which was so frequently re- marked in imperial tim The peasants liked the Emperor and cared nothing avout the Empire. To Napoleon Il. they were personally attached, knowing little and caring less about the system of government. Napoleon III. was & vast personal many tears—as all the world knows, and the street | Many French statesmen regret the destruction of | power in France, and tt would be absurd to deny came to be known as Rue de l’Oratotre du Roule, which means that in the iast century there was a | famous religious house or oratory called Le Roule. House, priests and all have vanished, and vain | people breathe the air in the open spaces they left | behind them, and called Elysian Fields. This street is their only souvenir, and here Itves Frangois | Guizot, in some respects the most famous man {pn | France. THE HOME OF GUIZOT. Your correspondent found himself here by ap- pointment—M. Guizot having expressed his will- ingness to converse with bim upon affairs in France. It was & commodious apartment, fur- nished in @ comfortable English manner, a pro- | fusion of earpets—a thing not common to French houses. There was no luxury; only a few pictures of a serious cast. There was heavy red velvet fur- niture and @ portrait of Guizot himself—taken, one | ‘would say, fifty years ago, it 1s 80 young and fresh. The books seattered on the table were mainly re- ligtous, serious and historical, and one would be as much surprised to see a novel here as to see an ‘acrebat dancing a tight rope im Notre Dame. There is a sentiment of honesty, purity, almost austerity of mind, and regularty paid bills, In this apartment jGuizot lives as @ kind of political shrine. All men seek him—the young to partake of his experience, ‘the old to share his memories. Now and then one meets a republican, but the old man doesnot court the flery leaders of young France. I doubt whether | de knows a republican under fifty. As your cor- respondent was ushered in two gentlemen passed out. One was Duc @e Broglie, the otber the Duc ad’ Audriffet-Pasquier, avizor. As your correspondent entered the inner room the venerable statesman gaye him a warm wel- come and beckoned to a chair. In the body Guizot ds small, frail, thin; to the eye even thinner from ‘his habit of wearing @ tong brown frock coat, In his coat lappe) was the red ribbon of the Legion of Honer. His hair was silvered; the face full of life and brightness; dark-gray eyes, that looked earn- estly at you from under his black velvet skull cap, | A dry man, of earnest mind—keen rather than wide—without the slightest trace of humor, who ‘Awes his auditors and compels the decorum and re- Bpect that we pay to woman. In hie conversation nothing was more marked than his dislike te re- pubdlicans and all republican forms of government, Gaizot spends most of bis time at his little cha- teau in Normandy. He bas a moderate income— from his books mainly. He was born October 4, the temporal power ofthe Pope. Protestant as I am, I never advocated its destruction. It came | naturally and logically to the Popes, But the | changed order of things has taken it away. In the early, feudal times, sovereign power and im- Munity were pecessary to the personal security of the Ponti, Otherwise any turbulent King or | Kaiser could have seized bis person apd put him | in prison. It was necessary that he should have | it. The peasants admired him and gave him their votes, and it does not seem probable or natural that they will transfer thelr allegiance to his sop, the Prince Imperial. The bourgeoisie, on the other hand, are in the main Or- leanists. Wealth or comfort makes them quiet. They are not at all demonstrative, and are cer- tainly far from being ardent or vehement in their royal powers in Rome, in order that his sacred power should be respected out of Rome. But we | are ne longer feudal, amd medieval ideas have | gone with the mediaval times. The Pope need not | fear personal indignity, nor will his power be | lessened as the head of the Charch because he ts | no longer sovereign of his small dominions. It | would be wise for the Pontiff to accept the changed | order of things, and to remember that, as a purely spiritual sovereign, he has now and must always | have more real power, ten times told, than any | earthly ruler.” i PIO NONO A FANATIC. The conversation continued in reference to the | personal character of the present Pope. In response | to the questions addressed by your correspondent on that subject M. Guizot said, “Pius LX. 1s almost afanatic as regards the attributes and preroga- tives of bis oMce. I eannot believe that he will ever become reconciled to Victor Emmanuel. I see no | chance of any harmony between the King of Italy and ihe Pontifcate during the lifetime of Pius IX. A few deys since M. de Bourgeing, our late Ambas- sador, was sittsng in this very armchair,” putting | his hand on your correspondent’s chair, “and I | said, ‘EA bien, my dear M. de Bourgoing, suppose a | man of ordinary common sense were to go to the Pope and strive to show him that it is a hopeless | task for him even to think of forcing the Italians to | abandon Rome, now that they are really in posses- sion, and that the Hely Father, a8 recognized abso- | lute head of the Roman Church, is really more powerful without the temporal power than with it, what would Pio None say? ‘Say!’ respouded M. de Bourgoing, ‘be would say nothing, but simply order from his presence any one who would use such ar- guments to him.’ ” ‘WHO WILL BE THE NEW POPE? A suggestion arose as to what would be the effect of the death ef the Poye, M. Guizot said:—‘I hear | from Rome that there is every reason to think that | the successor of the Pope will be a prelate of more | modern and moderate views. As for Pio Nono, you know he Degan his Pentificate as @ reformer and an innevator. ‘Now he bas ewung to the extreme 1787, and is now, therefore, in che eigkty-sixth year of his age. GU1ZOT AND THR DISCOVERY OF LIVINGSTONE. Your correspondent explained to M. Gulzot that he called upon him, not from motives of idle curi- osity, but in obedience to the commands ef the editor of the HakaLp, who was now giving to the American people the views of the leading men of France on the present situation_of affairs. Ina country with so many dive) interests as France there was ao way of reaching an {ntelll- gent appreciation of its wante and purposes up- Jess by seeking the counsel of mem who, like him- self, had filled go large a share of ite histery. ‘The venerable statesman replied that he quite inderstoed the motives which prompted the visit of the HERALD representative, and he was very @lad to say snything to the American people, ‘especially through such a newspaper as he under. Stood the HERALD to be. “Wag it not,” he said, “the HapaLD which sent a correspondent and ap expedition to discover Dr. Livingstone 1° ,. Yout correspondent replied that the expedi had been organized by Mr. James Gordon fener the present proprietor ef the Hrmanp, M. Quizot remarked that it was ‘‘a nobie idea, bravely car. ried gut, and that the whole rorlé had cause of gratitude to Mr. Bennett aod his representative, Then, after # pause, he ait, “Is the Henary a Christian journal? Has it any special religious policy" ‘a9 rH mg@Manp 4 ommIsTIAN JovRNaL!? — | Your correspondent answered that, in the broad, | catholic sense of supporting mora) princtples, | good government, purity of thought and social | progress, the Hekatp was 9 Christian mewspaper; | that in @ country like America, where there was Bg Grate religion, where all sects were @qQgh be | of the other side, One might say that the Pope is the Comte de Chambord, and that infallibility is his white fag.” TRB PROTESTANT BYNOD IN PARIS, devotion to the House of Orleans, They want | order, rest and asteady government—no matter who governs. They would, for instance, never dis- turb the existing order of things to put the Count de Paris on the throne, and yet they would wel- come an Orleans monarchy. The bourgeoisie will never take any advance step, any initiative in pohtical affairs. We see a great defect in our middle class, that its members, who are among the Most worthy, most sagacious and most wealthy citizens, do not take more interest in politics.”” THE NOBILITY. Your correspondent ventured to observe that in America the same complaint was made—that the honest, wealthy merctant classes, who had so much at stake in tle cause of goed government, remained aleof from political affairs, The result ‘was that the baser elements of society frequently gained power and governed the people. M. Guizet Jistened and then continued :—“'The upper class,"? he said, “belong largely to the old nodlesse, whey are mainly legitimists and believe in the head of the Bourboms, the Comte de Chambord. These men were always famed for the fervor and impatience of their convictions, But J see in late years that they are becoming more tranquil and considerate in their opinions and willing te consider other | interests and views. The legitimists and Orlean- ists, for instance, are growing more and more to- gether, and should the Comte de Chambord pass | from the scene all parties weuld proclaim the Comte de Paris,” REPUBLICANISM IN FRANCE, A question having arisen as to the condition of the republican party im France, M. Guizot said:— “You, of course, know that I am not a republican, 1am now what I have been al! my life, profoundly eonvinced of the wisdom of a constitutional his constitutional Minister, I believe in consti- tutional principles ae seen in Operation under the British Crown, I prefer the British to the Ameri- can system. A federal republic is the best for the United States, because no ether form was possible after the War of Independence. 1 am sorry it should have been found necessary in America, This is certain, however—that whatever is good for America is net of necessity good for France. Citwens of every country, where there is a After & pause M. Guizot said :—'Reourring to the affairs ef the Protestamt Churen in France, the most recent and essential fact tm ite history was the meeting of tho Synod last Summer to decide upon certain questions of doctrine, 1 was instra- mental in convening the Synod. A large ma. jority of the consistories throughout France desired the comvocation of a Synod to #et- tie various dectrinal points. 1 therefore re- quested M. Thiera to decree the meeting. He did and it assembled at Paris, The majority ip faver of the varieus projects submitted to the Synod showed that] was in the right, thas the Churoh did really desire the convocation, eltheugh I was ac- cused of tiliberality. My position was a simple one. Either we were Christians or we were not. We were either Pretestante according to the formularies of the sixteenth century or we were not. 80! asked the Synod t6 decide whether people could be Prot estante withent holding Christian doctrines, 1 | did not think that, for instance, men could deny the divinity of Ohrist and ¢ell themselves Protes- tamts, according to the confession of Augsberg. Re- member that I bad no feelings of harshness towards those who did net agree with me in these tenets; I only wanted the matter clear. Go and found anew sect, as you doin Ameriea; be Deists er Unitarians, oF What you please; but do net persist in claiming | to be what im all respects you sre not—Protestants, ‘This was simply my position, and as the members | Of the Synod agreed with me I carried my point.” FATHER HYACINTHE AND HIS MARKIAGB, While conversation was in thia religious strain Tepference Was Qaturally made w Fether Hyectuthe | ernment that would endure in France. wise and stable goverument, grow devoted to it, J see that all Americans who come to see me are republicans, and I have met no Englishmen who have not an attachment as pro- found and leyal to the Queen and her royal sov- ereignty. 1am sure that the English would fight With as muck devotion, and zeal for the Crown as yeu Americans did ten years ago for the Union. Why ts this? Because each people feels that it has the form of government which best sults its wants and the conditions of mational existence, Goodness in government i# relative, as im other things. What fe good for one people is mot for another, I be- eve, for instance, that # republic is not sulted to France, But, remember, | am giving you a per sonal opinion, Many of the most sllustrions sons of France have rallied to the fag of the Republic, Among others J see my old friend and colleague, the Duo de Noailles, haa given in his adhesion to the Republic, Of course, you know the family, one of the oldest and proudest in France, and, by the way, the son of the Duke is French Minister in Washington. Well, a few days age the Duke came to pee me and said, to my surprise, that he was convineed the Republic Was the only form of gov- The Duke himeeif j@ @ learned and distinguished man, and hia opinions are worthy of the highest considera- tion,” A REPUBLIC UNSUITED TO FRANCE. ‘With mem like these,” said your correspondent, “gocepting the Republic, why should it not become the form that all classes will eventually dnd best Suited to the national welfare?’ “To that | am qoming.” sald M. Gnigot. “tam moparchy. For years I served Louis Philippe as | briltiant exceptions to the rest of the republican : party. I think, algo, that in France there are few men who, are republicans from sincere, earnest conviction, from a belief that the people are ca Pable ofselfesvernment. 1 see no evidence to dis- Pel “> tonyiotion. Recently, 1 had occasion to 8% tne prefects of three of our principal depart. ments, They tell me that in their departments the republicans are in an insignificant minority. There ts no general, genuine, national movement in favor of a republic.” - “But, if you will permit me,’ said your corre- spondent, “this being the case, how do you account for the fact that at all tho recent elections in France, not only republicans, but radical ropub- licans, have, with scarcely an exception, been re- turned as Deputies?" “That,” said M. Guizot, “is @ natural question. But if you observe critically the electoral returns im these cages you will find that there is an ab- surdly small proportion of electors ¢o the popula- tion. Furthermore, we know that the leaders or the republican party are eager, disciplined, with their forces organized, and that alt the voters in that party were sure to vote, This shows tho atrongth of the party, Yet, in no caso, with all this political activity and organization, and every- thing to win on the republican side, did the number of votes cast for any republican Deputy excved more than one-third of the number of voters recorded on the government register, Is tt not fair to conclude, therefore, that there are at least two conservative Frenchmen to one republican—two monarchists, if you will, to one opposed to 8 monarchy? The leadora of the republican party are not, very many of them, en- lightened, Many of thom are merchants simply. Few of them have any culture. Of course there are clever and onlightened men among them, There is one, for instance, a good friend of mine, whom I esteem highly—M. Vacherot. He ts one of my col- leagues at the Academy of Inscriptions, a Deputy in the Assembly and an ardent, conscientious re- publican, Yet, when tn conversation the other day he lamented tho want of @ constitutional monarchy, Wo had had suoh @ monarchy, he said—at one time for afteen years, and later for eighteen years—and France was never freer or more prosperous than under those reigns, The Republic, he continued, had the ill fortune to cane. tig most diMoulé moment—whon all things conspired to make it fall, He concluded by deploring the apparent impossibility of founding at this time a constitutional monarchy.” THE IMMEDIATE DISSOLUTION OF THE ASSEMBLY A CALAMITY TO FRANOB, After presenting his views on the theory of government best suited to France, the conversa- tion passed to the present political situation, Your correspondent ventured @ question as to the power and duration of the National Assembly. M. Gui- zot replicd :—‘‘It would be a great misfortune if the Assembly were to be dissolved before the last Ger- man soldier left France, This I will show in a mo- ment, The paramount idea in the mind of the Assembly—and, ag I know, in the mind of M. Thiers—is the consolidation of a successful domt- nant conservative party. There would be no dim- culty in accomplishing this result were it not for the impossibility of restraining the extreme men of the menarchical parties. Many of these men are not only extreme, but fanatical, in their views, and cannot be controlled. On the Right there are men who are always indiscreet and precipitate, and do harm more frequently than good to any cause they serve. Only control these excessive and unruly geatiemen, whose political ideas are swayed by their passions, and there would be no trouble in founding & conservative party which would be sup- ported by the public opinion of France. Were such @ party to take shape we should no doubt see the more able of the Bonapartist party—such men as M. Magne, who never gave the Emperor a fanatical Support—joining its ranks.’? M. THIERS. This led your correspondent to ask what M. Thiers would do in such @ party. “M. Thiers,” replied M. Guizot, ‘‘will, I am firmly convinced, become more and more conservative. I have no idea that he will break with the republicans in the Assembly, I do not think he will even separate Dimself from the extreme radical wing. But his mind is conservative, and experience has strength- ened it in that direction. As he feels the con- servative party growing more and more in tne Aseembly and the country he will attach himself more and more closely to it and strive te direct its steps to power.” THE ORLEANS PARTY. Your correspendent tnquired whether the con- duct of M. Thiers would in any way comtrol that of | the Orleans party. “I am one of that party,’ was the response, ‘‘and I sha!l simply say, the Orlean- ists wait the order of the country, We serve France—France alone, No ene in the party, Prince or follower—not even the Count de Paris ar the Duc D’Aumale—would ever for @ moment dream of forcing himself upon the country. Be sure that-when the country calls the Orleans princes will accept any duty, They will | never outrage France and violate the law by a coup @état, Nor have they a selfish devotion to their house. Lam very sure that no Frenchmen more sincerely regret than they do the extraordl- ary attitude assumed by the Comte de Chambord im reference to the white fag. In his devotion to | this emblem they see, and not without deep pain, that he has made it impossible for him to reign over France, Nor is this so surprising, for through- out France the old fag is looked upon as symbol- izing @ return to the régime antecedent to 1789. Such a return no one would even discuss, much less accept. Should the Comte de Chambord éte, now that imperialism has died with Napoleon III, | the contest for power in France would rest simply | between the Orleanists and republicans. That would be the only political isste,”’ NAPOLEON ID, Referring to the remark of M. Guizot that impe- | rialism was dead, your correspondent asked him if he knew the Emperor Napoleon III, “J only saw him four times in my life to speak with him,” was the response. ‘This was after his ascension to the imperial throne. I called to see him about the tn- terests of the French Academy, of which I am a member, and of the affairs o! the Protestant Church in France. I remember on one occasion we had a jong conversation, This I memtion because it was unusual for the Emperor to eonverse freely. He was very pelite and courteous and showed me every attemtion. He knew! bad been bis enemy and the enemy of his house. He knew that it was guite impossible that Ishouid become his friend, Yet he spoke to me with the utmost freedom of nis position, its diMculties and dangers,” THE CHARACTER OF NAPOLEON. Your correspondent, aliuding to the sudden death of the Emperor and the interest which mankind would fee! in the criticism of such @ character by a man like Guigot, asked the venerable statesman ‘what he thought of Napoleon Il), “The prominent trait in bis character,” said M. Guizot, “and It was | ap uncertain, devious, contradictory character, | was indecision. It was extraordinary—his ina- | bility to arrive at a conclusion er really make up his mind, He toyed with policies, He would turn @ question around and around, took at it from all sides and under every aspect, and brood over it for ® long time and yet be in- capable of arriving at @ decision when it | was necessary to act. It almost always happened that he took the least decided course. Again, like people who lack gonuine decision of character, On some points he was ebetinate and on occasion bold. We saw that under certain cir- cumstances. At Boulogne and Strasburg, for in- stance, he could be rash. | cannot regord his mind ‘ap first class, It ran into commonplace expres. stona, and he never seemed to regard them as com- monplace. He waea gentieman; | mean a gentle- man in the English and Ameriean sense, Napoleon Ill. never willingly gave pain to any human being, ‘To those about him, who served him, he was always kind and censiderate. In seme respects he was even generous te his adversaries, In this and in other respects the Emperor stood apart from his party. His party often committed acts which he did not approve, and which grieved him exceed- ingly when they came to his knowledge. In his ‘way—a way I do not approve—he loved France with aincerity. Remember, my friend, that Inever was a frenzied, unsparing, indiscriminate opponent of the Emperor's government, As on Oricanist and | Dever for &@ Moment at rest, ) looking up, with 4 half emite, sald:—7enes, Monsieur! The Emperor was all his life one of three thiags—a prisoner, @ jour- naliat, a Oarbonaro. You see, ho had been impris- oned for six years in Ham, Imprisonment had upon the Emperor an effect that it has upon all but tho very strongest minds, I¢ turned his eyes upon hitaself and made him gloomy and self searching. Imprisonment narrows 9 man; and when it came to this man, ardent, dreamy, con- triving, given to converse with the atars as though they expressed his destiny, it narrowed and dare- ened his mind. Depend upon tt, his two imprison. menta—the bricf one after Strasburg and the long. one after. Boulogne—had a morbid ef- fect upon the imperial character. Nor was this all, Exile is imprisonment—negative itm- Prisonment—not the leas oppressive because the. sun sbines freely and you cam drink wine. To the Emperor his English life was virta- allyimprisonment, His dreams and hopes wero tn France, AsT ssid, he was also 4 journalist—‘a criticism,” said M. Guizot, with a bow and a smile, “that I make with all respect, remembering that I have the honor to address a journalist. But, as may have occurred to you, @ journalist advancing the same proposition day alter day, and sustwning it by the same arguments, iterating and reitorat- ing day after day as his duty commands, even as the days themselves come and go with the'rising and the setting of the sun, is apt to have his mind in a Groove or rut, So the danger arises that jour- natists as well as politicians are prone to express commonplaces with an air of conviction, a3 though they were saying something new, and not express- ing vague and well-known ideas that contribute nothing to the sumof human knowledge. Well, the Emperor had been & journalist, and tn that calling his mind had taken the bent which I de- fwcribe,’’ NAPOLEON If, AS A CONSPIRATOR, “Again,” said M. Guizot, “the Emperor was & conspirator. You know, of course, in his young days he had actually been a member of the Italian Revolutionary Society of the Carbonari. In their councils he learned the trade of conspiracy. The famous Count Cavour, who was a good judge of this calling, is reported to have said that Napoleon Ill. could excel any man in Europe in conspiring— himself included, This was a frank admission, for Count Cavour was not an apprentice simply in theoraft. As a young man in Italy Napoleon learned how to conspire for others, During his twenty years of rule he applied the knowiedge to his own Purposes, until at last this hanit, like habits gen- erally according to the nature of man, 80 grew upon him that he really seemed to conspire for the sake of conspiring and because his mind, warped aud crooked by misfortune. and misadventure, loved devious ways, I have no donbt he fancied up to the end of his career that he was conspiring against Prince Bismarck.’’ THE FUTURE OF IMPERIALISM IN FRANCE, Your correspondent asked how would the death ofthe Emperor affect France. M. Guizot said:— “Ihave given that subject much thonght. Since the death of the Emperor I have seen several of the loaders of the Bonaparte party, and my con- clusion is that Napoleon’s death will be an irre- Parable disaster to imperialism. Of course you ‘Will not find this opinion in the imperialist jour- oals, No party organ ever plays its own dirges, ‘These hopeful journals see light where all is dark- ness, and will tell you their cause is now more hopeful than ever. But there are men in France, like myself, removed from active, passionate partici- pation in politics—behind the scenes, as it were— who know better. Irecall an illustration, A few days before Napoleon died I had a visit from M. Foreade la Hoquette. You know him asa sincere imperalist. He said if the Emperor were taken away the imperial cause would be lost and all but a few fanatics would rally to the conservative party as the party of France and care nothing for this or thatdynasty. I think this expresses the views of the ablest and most patriotic Bonapartists. Since the death of the Emperor I have seen others of the same party. They all admit that they are com- pletely down— COMPLETEMENT abATTUS— by the magnitude of the calamity involved in the Emperor’sdeath. This is natural and logical. The Empire could only return through disaster. How else? We should have added misfortunes, and the country in danger of another Commune. To make such @ disaster impossible, or to crush ft should it come, is @ work that cannot be confided toa boy. And the Prince Imperial, no matter how amiable and worthy, is only a To bring back the Em- pire, under the only conditions tn which it would be possible, is the work of @ stern, strong man—a man who Will not grow pale at the shedding of biood, but who has @ purpose aud the will to seek | it to the end, come what may. The Prince Imperial may have all manner of good qualities. I have no doubt he Is intelligent, spirited, well bred; but he has not, a8 we gay, ‘made bis proofs.”? Now, his father showed on three occasions in his life that be could show resolution; that he could take hia life in his hand and risk it to carry his aim. This he did at Strasburg, | Boulogne and in the coup a'état, He failed, it is true, on two occasions, and failure brought con- , tumely and ridicule upon Im. Still they showed | that serene, high, almost spiritual courage which enables aman to embark in ventures apparently hopeless, The result was that in my time, when Louis Philippe was king, Napoleon was a source of constant umeasiness to the government, We were | There was no antici- pating what an adventurer so desperate anda dreamer so romantic would not dare, The pos- session of this very quality, unusual as itis and undesirable as it may be, which the Emperor alone of his family seemed to possess—a qnality now so | essential to success—is one reason why the im- perial death is so deadly a blow to the imperial party. There is another reason, Napoleon III, was, in the eyes of a vast number of Frenchmen, the Empire. They knew nothing of an imperial system. They knew Napoleon and what he would do should he regain pewer. He was imperialism io a living symbol. Still another reason Is found in the question of the regency, and this is indeed very grave. Who is to direet the conduct and studies of the Prince imperial until he is of age’ There are but two persons really in s position to act as guard- jans of the Prince—the Empress and Prince Napo- Jeon, Now, of tuese two, it would be difficult te say which is the mest unpopular in France. During the Crimean war the impression grew in France that the cousin of the Emperor was personally timid. Every succeeding war only served to confirm this impression, and his enemies spoke of him as a Bonaparte without @ single quality of the great Bonaparte. Hewever unjust this might be, it was the impression of France, and as such limited bis usefuiness and bis fature, Again, the Prince was } always regarded asa “dangerous” man in French | politics; always plotting, always im @ trick, and, none better offering, plotting against his friends, Atel said, the Bonapartiets, as a party, need a bold | man. Prince Napoleon is certainly not a man of that character.” THE EMPRESS RUGENIE. A question then srese as to the position of the | Empress as Regent. M. Guizot added:—“'aa you | ne doubt well know, the Empress is fer frem being | popular in France. She is regarded as @ woman under the influeace 01 the priests—as a devotee, Devotees are not, ,88 @ general thing, popular in France, Then she is not s French woman, and that goes far teward weakening her popularity, 1 | know that there is neither reason nor liberality in this sentiment, but it exists in France—not toward the Empress alone, but all foreigners. I would be do- ing wrong not to see and note this strange feeling, Above ajl there is ® general feeling that the coun- sels of the Empress contributed greatly toward the war and the ensuing disasters, You can imagine how deeply this feeling would affect the mind ef France, So you see that the Prince Impertal will be in the hands of people whe are not loved by France."’ ‘THR FUTURM OF THR BONAPARTIS? PARTY. { tain brutal frankness. | unusual quality which deceived men like Napoleon | U.—men who, never meaning what they said, } that Your correspondent quagested that the Boum partist party might not de in all respects governed? by the heads of the Bonaparte family. ‘As to the party,” said M. Guizot, ‘itis divided, There is a stad of able and experienced men, and ander the stata large numberof. intensely ignorant followers— mostly peasants—who reside im the country dis- tricts. This stat, as it were, is composed of men like Rouher, Magne, Haussmann, Fleury and Forgado ls Roquette, These men are extremely able mane- gers in politics, But they are men whose careers ero, as a general thing, well over. They are past middle age, past the time of experiments and ven- tures. Nor will they wait in the chilly isolation ot exile and absence from office for ten or fifteen years, aa the oase may be, until the Prince is old enough to take part in affairs, and be the real leader of tho party. Will they consent to stand aloof from evory opportunity offered by France until an uncortain future develops itself? I cannot believe this, These Bonaparte chiefs will, lamauro, unite with the conservative party to check tho onslaughts of radicalism, Among these mon there was a sentiment of affection for Napoleon, who was, as I have said, an amiable man in private Life, and had the quality Of inviting love from those around him. They wilt feel that the Emperor's death releasea them frona this feeling of loyalty—that imperialism died with the Emperor, Maay more will aver that, having voted “Yes" in the plébiscitum, they voted for the Emperor and not for the Empire. So far as these leaders are concerned this death makes @ oonsery- ative party more probable and possible, The rank and file of the party were found among the pea» ants. Ilive, for instance, in Normandy. In my country the peasants are in favor of Napoleon. His treaty with England and his policy of free trade brought large wealth to Nermandy and Brittany especially. Free trade has given these two Provinces a large market in New England and: thie prosperity they attribute to Napoleon, and 40 feel warmly to nim and his house. In the South, especially around Bordeaux and Toulouse, the peasants had a personal attachment tothe Emperor. The Napoleonic legend survived longer there than in any other section of France, and bas not lost its charm. Sut even among these peasants the personality of the Third Emperor waa stronger than the illusions and legends of the First, These peasants are not far-seeing. Politica connect olosely in their minds with comfort and prosperity. During the empire they never saw the danger of engrossing power in the hands of one man who might use it badly, or who, if he did not, was cer- tain to die sooner or later, and leave chaos and dis- order behind, But,’ said the old statesman, slowly and earnestly, ‘“‘you may accept this as my deliberate conviction. Imperialism isa lost cause in France for a generation at least. The journals say to the contrary; but I, as an old Minister, and you as @ journalist, know that newspapers, espe- claily the party organs, do not quite mean what they say, and that party organs generally swagger and shout and cry victory loudest when directly before them lies inevitable defeat.” ENGLISH FBELING TOWARDS NAPOLEON. Your correspondent referred to the universal sympathy and admiration felt in England towards Napoleon. M. Guizot said: ‘1 am astonished at that. But, on the whole, is it not natural? Docs it do honor to the credit of England? The English have a feeling which I presume is Anglo-Saxon— that death ts sacred. De mortuis nti nist bonum is @ precept quite Anglo-Saxon. Remember how pop- war death made Prince Albert, The journals ceased to abuse him; the nation saw him some- thing other than a beggarly German prince; Eng: land mourned him as she mourned no man since Wellington, and statues are built to his honor. Re- member, too, that Napoleon III. was alwa: friend of England. He had time and again chance? to wound her, but he was true to his alliance, Then and in this he did a noble act for which civt+ lization should honor him, he practically healed the feud between the two nations. Now I sea itotherwise in America. Your journals, if the telegraph reports them truly, Judge his cause severely. Nor is that to be won- dered at. He was not a friend of the United States, Just as he held his hand from England when he had her at an advantage he songht when trouble came to America to turn it to account, You know he proposed to unite with England in recognizing che independence of the Confederate States, When the crisis was upon us he threw his armies into Mexico, He never would have invaded Mexico bad he not believed, with many others, that the North could never conquer the South. And so nothing 18 more natural than that this feeling should find expression in your journals.”” PRINCE BISMABCE. “You made an allusion, Monsieur,” said your correspondent, “to Prince Bismarck, when speak- ing of Napoleons and Cavour as conspirators, May laskif you applied that criticism to Prince Bis- marck algo ¢”” “By no means,” was the response; I do not call Bismarck @ conspirator in the sense I would call Napoleon, He impresses me as the exact opposite ofaconspirator, Asa diplomatist he has had his schemes and plots and stratagems. But in tho main he seems to have been distinguishea by a cer- At was this startling and were quite overpowered and amazed to find thit Bismarck did mean what he said. It ts because the German Chancellor has not been a conspirator that, deating with conspirators, he has gained his astonishing success.”” FRANCE AND GERMANY. This allusion to Bismarck led the conversation to the relations of France and Germany. ‘My be- lief on that is,” said M. Gaizot, “that our humilia- tion in the late war—our extracrdinary losses in men, money and territory, and the necessity of rest that streagth may come—will impose upon Fraurce a policy of peace. Iam very sure tnat this will be the policy of Prance #o long as M. Thiers ia im power. There is some fear that there will be trouble about the temporal power. On that I have spoken. M, Thiers believes in the temporal power ofthe Pope. He is opposed to the present attitude of Italy. But he has said again and again, and I am convinced he speaks sincerely, so long as he ts in power France shall never disturb Italy, Asto the Germans and their occupation, M. Thiers will be abie to pay the fourth milliard in the course of this year. He could pay it now, but the result would be @ finan- cial panic, disastrous to Germany and to France, So he will make gradual payments. Now by tha treaty, upon the payment of this fourth milllard France obtains the right to offer guarantees for the fifth, If these guarantees are accepted we have @ right to call upon the Germans to evacuate the departments. But bere comes a question, What kind of guaranteee will the Germans regard asvalid? The matter is almost wholly in their dis. cretion, You may be sure that Bismarck will look far more favorably upou guarantees offered by M. Thiers and this Assembly than he would upon the same guarantees offered by a radical assembly, and at its head Gambetta, the most persis ent enemy of Germany during the war. J believe if we were to elect such an assembly the Germans would decline to evacuate the eastern provinces, and, above ali, would fad a pretext for declining to surrender Belfert. Noone knows better than M. Thiers that the Germans aro only too anxious to find @ reason for holding on to Belfort. The military party of Prassia woul? never willingly have allowed Belfort to revert to France, That party would have taken it ag they took Metz, I am quite sure, therefore, that for this reason alone it would be a calamity tohave an election next Summer, as is the policy of M. Gambetta, There would be the Internal tamult—there would, above all, be this quéstion of the Germsn occupa- tion. This Assembly concluded the treaty with Germany, and iv should remain in power until its provisions are consummated. It is bad enough to have general elections at any lime. How much more dangerous and dificult with this German problem solved, ” “PRANCE AN INVALID,” “Then,” said your correspondent, “you think France needs nothing more tnan rest. ‘“Prance,’? was the reply, ‘4s still an invalid, I think she 1s convalescent and on the way to perfect recovery; but she is fer from having pristine hesith and vigor, The iuture is dark. No one can predict her future. We all hope she will weather the storms shead, but success will require all efforta, The