The New York Herald Newspaper, April 26, 1872, Page 3

———————— THE CHARTER. Wise:Men of the Seventy Be- fore the Governor. Professor Dwight in Advoeacy of the Cumulative Clause. HENRY L, CLINTON BACKING HIS OPINION. No Sign from the Governor and No Signa- ture to the Charter. ALBANY, April 25, 1872, Governor Hoffman devoted to-day to the hearing ‘ef the argygnents of parties who desired to present their reasons why he should or should not veto the Committee of Seventy’s charter. The Executive chamber was thrown open to all comers, but there were few persons in attendance. The audience was quite informal, and the interchange of opinions ehiefy conversational. The Seventy, through thelr representatives, have stuck to their pet measure persistently to the last, and they have hopes that their untiring efforts, alded by the elaborate argu- ment of Professor Dwight, may induce the Governor to allow the charter to become a law, and leave the question of constitutionality to be decided by the Court of Appeals, The Governor listened with marked attention to all the statements on either side, and in the course of conversation called at- tention to various sections and asked a number of questions, but he did not Intimate, one way or the ether, what HIS FINAL DECISION would be. Both sides feel quite confident—the one ‘that he will sign and the other that he will veto It. The Governor will have until early next week to return it to the Legislature with his objections, if he should decide to do 80, Meanwhile he carries the darling document in his capacious oficial pocket, and both sides await the issue with the deepest interest. During the day the Committee of Seventy were represented by John Wheeler, ex-Governor Salo- mon and Mr. Simon Sterne, and afterwards by Professor Theodore W. Dwight, of Columbia College jaw school, who arrived in the afternoon to argue in favor of the measure. Mr. Henry L. Clinton ap- peared on behalf of those “reformers” (chichy oMce holders) who are opposed to the new charter, because it puts them out and provides for the elec- tion of new incumbents. Most of the morning was devoted to a conversational interchange of senti- ments in respect of different disputed points, prin- cipally that of cumulative voting, its theory and its practice. When Professor Dwight arrived he made an elaborate argament in favor of THE OONSTITUTIONALITY OF THE CARTER as it passed both houses, notwithstanding all opin- fons to the contrary. He remarked in the com- mencement that the Governor should not veto it n constitutional grounds, unless its unconstitu- sett was plain, and that it was the lia ofa court of justice, after solemn argument, to dispose efsach a question. If the Governor should dispose of it by bis veto it would be without proper discus- sion and review, and such a decision would not be final. On the other hand the courts could be trusted to take a careful and accurate view of it in all its bearings, and therefore the Governor should let the courts decide the question, unless it were clearly unconstitutional. nr Dwight proceeded to argue that it was NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL, fobay eel aE fie sanleae oF cea re Ing, ing the principal ground upon which the cain of uneonstivutionallty was based. He. Te- ferred to the two clauses of the constitution which, it was asserted, conflicted with the provisions for cumulative voting. The first clause was in article Aon 1, to the effect that every male citizen of the age of twenty-one years who shall be duly. quali- fed, as described, shall be entiticd to vote “for all oMicers that now are or hereafter may be elective by the people ”? and the second Cea was in article 18, ‘section 4, to the effect that all city, town and village officers, and all other officers whose election or appointment ts not otherwise Rrovi led for by the constitution, shall be elected by the elec- tors of such cities, towns or villages, dr Appointed by such authorities thereof as the Legislature shall designate for that purpose. He then explained the evident object of these clauses, That of the first was simply to define se od THE QUALIFIOATIONS OF THE VOTER astoagé and residence, and to exclude all com- pareere property qualifications which had existed in earlier constitutions, That of the other clause was ai imply to transier the power of clecting local oMmicers from tye central authority at Albany, ere it formerly existed, H) the Jogal Wiithorities them- selved. Hence he contended that these clauses had no yeference to the subject now under considera- tion, The only limitation in the constitution was that officers in cities should be elected by the electors or appointed by the proper authorities, and consequently that the constitutionality of cumu- lative voting depended solely upon the ates whether an election under that system could be said tobe an election or not, He argued that it wonld be an election in the true meaning of the term, because all the ordinary modes of election were adopted, the qualifications of the yelectors were uniform, and the mode of collecting and can- vassing the votes was according to the usual prac- tice at elections. The only remaining inquiry, therefore, would be whether this cumulative sys- tem corresponded with the general ideas involved in an election in a representative form of govern- ment. This naturally led him into an examination of the essential elements of ‘A REPRESENTATIVE FORM OF GOVERNMENT, and which, to preserve the continuity of his argu- ment, he proceeded to define. The representative system, he said, must be so shaped that the major- iy, if they were so disposed, should have greater weight in the representative body than the minor- ity. He claimed, however, that the representative system did not require each elector to vote for all ns representatives; for, if that were #0, all the members of the Legislature would have to be on a single ticket and each yoter would have to vote for the whole Legislature, instead of, as at present, for members in designated districts. It had long been conceded that the electors might vote in districts; thus the cumulative vote did not differ from the or- dinary vote, so far as THE ESSENTIAL ELEMENTS OF REPRESENTATION ‘were concerned, except that it allowed a diferent mode of grouping the votes. He argued that if there were 9, voters who voted for nine men, any system by which 1,000 voters could concentrate their wills on a single man would be a representa- tive system; that it would not be possible for 4,000 to have as much weight in a representative body as 5,000, as that accordingly the majority would have precisely the weight they ought to have, and no more. ‘This, he said, was one of the leading excellencies of the cumulative system, Pro- fessor Dwight proceeded then to show some positive advantages which might rea- sonably be expected to follow the adoption of the cumulative system. Ono of these waa that it would ve likely to increase the interest of the minority in the government of affairs. If the minority were absolutely excluded from a vote, in the Board of Aldermen, for instance, they would soon lose much of their INTEREST IN THE ELECTIONS; while, on the other hand, if they were sure of having 4 representative who could protest and raise @ voice of warning, when anything was wrong, they would be more likely to see that such repre- sentatives were elected. The minority would be lkely to be discounted if they were ey, excluded from a voice in the representation. If, for ex- ample, all the Aldermen should be elected ona gene- ral ticket In a city like New York, and all were of ‘one political character, the minority would be res- tive, uneasy, and the ultimate result might be a serious disturbance. The easy working of the rep- resentative system being a thing greatly to be desired, the true statesman should seek to frame Jaws in such a way as to remove as far as possible oll CAUSES OF DISCONTENT. Such discontent he ciaimed would be practically removed by having a proportional representation in the Board, He contended further that it would be to the advantage of the representative body ifsell to have difference of opinions among its members. That would lead to discussion, arguinent and some- times denunciation ; but the majority would in this way be menaced by the minority, and would be likely to give more careful consideration to measures than if the body were all of one political character. There was also a strong tendency in public opinion towards this cumulative system as a means of alle- viating existing evils. Leading political thinkers gadvocated it, and that was one reason why, if tt were constitutional, tt should have a fair and prac- tical trial. The results of these general considera- tions, he said, was that cumulative voting was only A PIROE OF POLITICAL MECHANISM to bring about a more complete system of represen- tation. It belonged to the modes or methods of rep- resentation, not to its substance, and there was nothing in the constitution to interfere with these modes. He held that 1t devolved upon the oppo- nents of the aystem to show its unconstitutionality, because the ruling of the courts was to the effect that the Legislature had full power over the entire field of legislation, except so far as restricted by constitutional provisions, and was accordingly necessary to show that there was some constitu- tional provision to restrain the Legisla- ture from enacting laws governing the manner of holding election. In this connection Professor Dwight answered some objections that jad been made to the cumulative system in the NEW YORK |W plished ot Messrs, Lawrence and Clinton. The first obj yeoman ‘was that CLAUSE IN ARTICLE TWO, section 1, to the effect that the elector is entitled to vote for ‘all’ elective by the le means that he’must be allowed to vote for every candi- date, and that the cumulative vote does not ermit him to do so. His answer to this Bhyection was that the clause in ques- tion was inserted in the constitution for au entirely different purpose, and slunply to coun- teract the provision in the old constitution of 1777, that there should be different prope: qualifica- tions of voters tor Assemblymen and tors—a voter for Assemblyman being required to be worth £20, and a voter for Senator £100. This dis- tinction occasioned much dissatisfaction among the people of the State about the year 1820, and the con- struction given to the old constitution under it ex- cluded from the full exercise of the elective fran- ehise 75,000 persons who had property and who were otherwise entitled to vote. This dissatisfac- tion led to the formation of THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF 1821, and the framers of that amended constitution pro- vided by this clause that there should be no dis- tinction between a voter for Assemblyman and a voter for Senator with reference to property quall- fication, That such was the intention of the clause was clearly shown by the debates in that Conven- tion, and particularly by the ches of Van Buren, Van Vechten, Elisha Will! and other rominent men. This clause, therefore, sald Pro- fessor Dwight, does not lend the least countenance to the objection, and it was in- corporated in the present constitution for the same reason. The second objection of those who were orpenes to the cumulative system was that the word “vote” in the present constitu- tion meant casting only one ballot for one man. The answer to this clause was not intended to de- fine a vote; that point was only alluded to incl- dentally in connection with qualifications of the elector, The whole object of the section was not to determine what a vote Is, but to prescribe that an elector having certain qualifications should have A RIGHT TO VOTER, whatever the vote might be. The third objection was that the elections must be uniform in all the cities of the State, and as this cumulative system was confined to the city of New York it was not uniform and consequently was not constitutional. Tho answer to this point was that there was nothing in the constitution Jeauteing elections to be uniform in all cities, that this construction was only inferred from the words of article 10, sec- tion 2, and there was no more good reason to infer that the elections should be unt- form than that appointments should be untform, There was no reason why the Peel le should desire to have elections in the different citles uniform. There might be very strong reasons why they should not be, as a mode of election whic! ‘would be well adapted toa large city might be quit unserviceable in a smaller one. Tt was unreason- able to suppose that the people of a large city would tle themselves down so Closely in the constitution that they could not, from time to time, vary forms which did not interfere with the sub- stance of elections. In conclusion, Professor Dwight referred to some of the evile which he said those opposed to the charter had conjured up, such as that the cumulative plan was A MAMMOUTH SYSTEM OF REPEATING. and that it was ‘a grand game of chance.” To these he answered that there never could be any repeating under it unless by outlaws; that no honest citizen might fear the charge o! repeatin, who cast the vote which the law allowed him an no more; and that it was preposterous to call it a game of chance, because the result could be made a Matter of calculation, Finally, he repeated to the Governor that his veto would not settle the matter, and that the wiser course would be to leave it to the Court, unless he were clearly convinced that It was unconstitutional, Mr. Henry L. Clinton, who during the day had been disputing mooted points with Messrs, Salomon and Stern, for the edification of the Governor, been replied to the acenmens of Professor Dwight, who, he contended, not answered an; of the ts in the opinion repare: by Mr, Wrence and himself against the constitutionality of cumulative voting. He held that the learned Professor had en- tirely begged the whole question. Mr. Clinton argued that the proper rale of construction of a constitution or organic law was that lenge e used in the instrument should be interpreted in the sense in which it was understood at the time of its adoption. At the time of the adoption of our State constitution, he sald, voting meant that one elector could cast ONE BALLOT FOR ONE MAN, and that it never had any other meaning. In illustrating this prone he referred to the lec by the Court of Ap- Cancime case ae in which the Court had held that the word ‘jury meant twelve jurors; that the provision of the constitution which eae anteed the right of trial by jury secured a trial by twelve jurors, and no less number. The phrase “trial by jury” had no more fixed and definite meaning tl the phrase ‘entitled to vote” in the State constitution. It followed necessarily that voting in a constitutional sense meant casting one ballot for one candidate. He contended that the constitution gave every elector the right to vote for “all officers,” and that this, by necessary implication, carried with it a prohibition against any elector voting more (hati once for gne officer. If an elector were obliged to use several votes for one candidate in order to offset a cumulation of seyeral votes of another elector for a single can- didate, he could only vote for part of the whole nine Aldermen to be elected and would be deprived of his constitutional right to vote for all. There was no express eras in the constitution ist women and children voting, and yet inas- Innch as the constitution provides that “every male citizen of the age of twenty-one Hate’ who was otherwise — dul; alti ed ight vote, y women and childr ere implication forbidden to Vote upon Ws same pri - clple, inasmuch as thé constitution permitte every elector to vote for ‘all officers,"? which meant that he ht vote once for one ofiicer. This pro- vision contained, by the same necessary implica- tion, @ prohibition against an elector voting more than once for one office. It might just as well be argued that statutes expressly authorizing persons to commit crime would be constitutional because there was no provision in the constitution which expressly prohibited the enactment of such statutes. He contended that cumulative voting was {OLBARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL; that it would legalize repeating and prevent the discovery and exposure of election frauds. In illus- trating this part of the subject he said that under the present system, if the inspectors refused to give a candidate credit for the whole number of votes cast for him, the candidate could prove by the electors that had voted for him; but under the sed system of cumulative voting it would be impossible for any candidate to prove that the inspectors had cheated him, because the electors could not remem- ber to any great extent how many times they had voted for any single candidate. If the inspectors should perpetrate frauds and award a certificate of election to the person not entitled to it the frauds of the inspectors could never be discovered, unless they exposed each other. A great many other ob- jections to the charter were pee out by Mr. Clinton during the day, among them the provisions by which so many citizens would be disfranchised who changed their residences out of their Senatorial districts on the 1st of May, and all THE SCHOOL TEACHERS would be legislated out of office on the Ist of July, with only a chance of reappointment. He pointed out the provisions in relation to the Commis- sioners of Public Safety, and which appeared to him most extraordinary. The Department of Pub- lic Safety embraced ‘the Departments of Fire, Police, lealth and Public Buildings. Section 47 of the charter provides that the Board of Aldermen may remove anv or all of the Com- miasioners, and section 43 provides that va- cancies occurring by removal, resignation, death or otherwise shall be filled by the remaining Com- missioners. The Board of Aldermen might remove | all the Commissioners, 80 that there might be no re- maining Commissioners to fill the vacaucies. Mean- while there would be no Commissioners at all, and there might be no heads to any of those departments. He also claimed that the provision in relation to the Finance Department was absurd and dangerous; that the Comptroller could be overruled by the four Commissioners of the Treasury; that the Mayor could remove the Comptroller at any moment on a mere caprice, and THE FINANCIAL INTERESTS OF THE CITY be thus placed in the greatest jepardy. Messrs. Salomon and Stern stuck to the Governor | all day, and went over with him nearly every se tion of the charter, explaining the objects of eac as intended by the Committee of Seventy, and an- swering the objections that were urged against certain sections of their dat ing document. After Mr. Clinton concluded his reply to Professor Dwight’s elaborate argument all the gentlemen present withdrew, and the Governor retired to meditate upon all the wisdom that he has listened to so at- tentively to-day. MUNICIPAL REFORM. The Charter Discussed by Reform Ward Delegates—A House to House Canvass to Commence—The Charter Endorsed. Ameeting of the officers, executive boards and election district committees of the several ward councils of political reform was held last evening in the medical college, corner of Fourth avenue and Twenty-third street. Mr. William H. Nelson pre- sided. There were about two hundred and fifty persons present, Mr. DEXTER A. HawKrns was the first speaker. He discussed at great \ength the new charter, favoring it in every pariicular. He also claimed that those whom he was then addressing were act- ing in conjunction with the Committee of Seventy. A convention has been cated, he said, to meet at Chickering Hall, which will be composed of sevent; gentlemen, and who will present a ticket that, if elected, will do honor to the city. The nominations would not be given to either professional politicians or professional ofice-holders, ir, GLASSEY, of the Eighteenth ward, followed. Tie took the ground that the Council of Political Reform had no right to make nominations, as their delegates had not been chosen for that purpose, Mr. Day, of the same ward, thought the eg had aright to make nominations. During the discus- sion several decidedly compromising compliments were bestowed upon the Committee of Seventy. Mr. Bourne, from the Ninth ward; Mr, Jackson, from the Twenty-first ward; Mr. Warner, from the Seventeenth ward; Mr, Streeter, who came all the ay from Albany to attend the meeting, and several others, took part in the discussion, which assumed a somewhat general character. Mr. VANCE Offered the following preamble and resolution, which, after considerable discussion, were passed unanimor Whereas the Committee of Seventy have requested the Couneil of Political Reform to assume the duty of effect- ing o proper organization of ail honest citizens for the coming election, and whereas itis advisable that all per. sons acting in the interest of reform should be brought together and a strong organization perfected, therefore Resolved, That the ward councils be urged to imme- diately take effective measures for securing the enrol- ment of all honest citizens In their et ive wards by opening suitable enrolling offices at convenient locations, under charge of reliable men, where all honest citizens of the ward shall be in- vited to register their names; thatthe enrolment be made during three days, and that the books of enrolment re- main open for public examination until the day of elec- tion, and that active measures be taken for Visitation house to house to ascertain the sentiments of the citizens in respect to municipal reform and to secure the active membership of all citizens to the organization of the Counell of Political Reform. After the passage of a resolution requesting the Governor to sign at once the new charter the meet- ing adjourned. PRESENTATION TO BISHOP M’NEIRNY, Large Meoting of Priests at Archbishop MoClos- key's Residence—The Address Read by the Rev. Father 0’Riley—Presentation of a Purse, Containing $3,850, by the Rev. Father Quinn—Bishop MoNeirny’s Boply. ‘The majority of the priests of this city, and very many from the country parishes of the Archdiocese assembled last evening In the parlors of Archbishop McClosky’s residence, in Madison avenue, to pay a tribute of respect to Bishop MeNeirny, on the eve of his leaving for his new home in Albany. The venerable Archbishop McCloskey was present, and moved around among his priests with a pleasant word of recognition for all. Bishop MeNeirny appeared vested in his new episcopal robe. ‘The Rev. Father E. J. O’Riely, of St. Mary's, pre- sided, and, at about nine o'clock, called the meet- ing toorder. He said that when the bulls for the consecration of Bishop McNeirny came from Rome the priests from the archdiocese felt a unanimous desire to testify in some suitable way to their old associate their high appreciation of his merits, and to carry out this iaea a committee was formed, con- sisting of five pastors and five assistant pastors, whose duties, pleasantly onerous all through, were now about to come to a conclusion. In behalf, then, of the clergy of the archdiocese he would read the following address and present it to Bishop Mc- Neirny as containing an expression of the good will and esteem felt for him by all those with whom he had been so long officially connected :— THE ADDRESS TO BISHOP M'NEIRNY. Ricat Reverend anp Dear Frrexp—The priests ot New York cannot allow the occasion of your leaving the arch- diocese and of being elevated to the high office of Coadju- tor Bishop of Albany to pass by without giving some manifestation of the sentiments of affection and respect which we have for so many years entertained in your re- gurd, and which we now take pleasure in publicly ex- Pressing to you. Occupying trom the time of your entrance into the min istry, almost without interruption, a poxition of peculiar delfeacy and high trust, your relations have been neces- sarily and almost exclusively with our archbishops on the one side and on the other with the clergy. With justice and truth we can congratulate you on your faithful and zealous discharge of duty, as Well ax‘on your faultles Attention in all’ your Intercourse with oursolves. It. is complimentary iit the history of any one’s carecr as a prot that, having been selected for Important duties the beginning, he isfound year after year retaining tl same position; but the compliment becomes very muc enhanced when there prevails a universal agreement that no other individual could fl the place #0 unexeep- jonably. We are not unmindful of the great burden and the re- sponsibility of your eplacopal office, and while in the frst Place we would invoke in, your behalf the fulness of the ivine assistance, in wishing you health and happiness we venture to offer re arin Sy nd to you and those who will now come under your Influence, that in the futare, as ithas been in the past, there will be mutual satistac- tion and ample cause of commendation, Right reverend dear sir, we cannot call to mind any priest of our country chosen to be a bishop who had spent all his time, from ordination to consocration, ina better or purer or nobler school than that from which you are now going, forth. Again, then, and with trust in our Heavenly Father, we renew the prayer, “ad multoe annos.”” The purso, with its contents, wlilch accompanies our brief address, and which we beg of you to accept, ts offered as arising naturally and ee in conjunetion with the feelings of friendship and sympathy to which we have desired to give uiterance in @ simple and unpretentious manner, THE PURSE. The Rev. Father Quinn, pastor of St. Peter's, then stepped foray and said that as treasurer of the fund subscribed by the priests of the arcndiacese a a preeat to Bishop MecNeirny, it afforded him great pleasure to bear testimony to the remarkable una- nimity with which the priests of the archdiocese had co-operated with the committee, He knew that there was a general desire felt to know what Was the total amount subscribed to this gift, and he would therefore announce that the purse he was about to hand to the Bishop contained $3,850, Father Quinn then handed the purse to Bishop MeNeirny, who, on receiving it, made the following reply to the address BISHOP M'NEIRNY'S REPLY. The pleasure which I experience this evening in he- { gathered here together the priests of the arch- in e h of New York is not unalloved. Eighteen years of official and social intercourse have taught us to fove and respect one another. surprising | it the words which have been Just uttered should evoke from the depths of my heart feelings to which I fain would, but to which [ain really unable to give expression. To-night our official relations as between brother priests are to be formally severed, and fore: But even so, I may be allowed to express the hope that the ties of friewtl- ship and affection which have hitherto united us in the past may become in the future only more strong aud more close, Ht memory can dwell with so muc It is Rob, therefore, jus miniscences of days gone by, I quality of mine, but rather to ness and forbearance. Evid have never been wanting, and » shall never, if, needs be, be deprived of them. They will, am sire, prompt you to follow me, ih my new carcer, with, unvarying Interest, they will inspire you to beg of our Father in heaven to Indeed of all this Tam already as- Tsay how for it alll am deeply grate- ver Will L forget it. sure n ful? ‘Never, Tam not unmindful that ft has been our common lege to live under, prelates distinguished as few pr are distinguished in the Chureh, and to enjoy all the fits that their guidan d illustrious exainple ws well calculated to confer. I ope to imitate It.will be much If, sion requires it, Tcan follow them atadistance not too great. For this, too, T doubtless will have your prayers, as well as the prayers of many. ‘The gift which accompanies your address is a munifl- cent one. It has, doub ts own special value. But its principai value in my eyes lies in the fact that i X- pression of @ friendship and a sympathy which I value Above all else, Thus offered, it becomes doubly acceptable and is doubly prized. I have to regret that my utterances are not more worthy of the occasion. Such as they are, tliey are the outpourings of a grateful heart. Bishop MeNeirny then invited his friends to par- take of a collation which had been prepared for the occasion, and in a short time the priests dispersed, THE NATIONAL GAME. RS ME A Return Game Between the Baltimores priyl- ates 0- and Mutuals—A Splendid Contest—Vic- | tory for the New Yorkers. Battrmore, April 25, 1872. The return game of base ball between the Mu- tals of New York and the Baltimore nine was played this afternoon at Newington Park. Con- trary to the general expectation, after the most closely contested game ever played in this city the Baltimore Cinb was de- feated, the score standing—Mutuals, 13; Bal- timores, 11. An immense crowd assembled to witness the game, and the shanties, sheds, brick piles and roofs of houses in the vicinity of the Park were thronged with people. A large number of ladies were present, and the utmost enthusiasm pre- vailed. The beautiful plays made by the members of the respective clubs were applauded with perfect impartiality, and the triumph of the New Yorkers duly steps tedeg 100 by hearty cheers, At the close of the ninth and tenth innings the score stood 9 and 9, but in the eleventh innin the Mutuals made four runs, while the Balti- more boys scored but two. There were six runs earned by the Baltimores and four by the Mutuals. Both clubs played Lerman: #1 but two members of the Baltimore nine were suffering from indisposition, The following is the score :— INNINGR. . th. Oth. TH Bh, 9th. 10Eh. Neh o 0 0 LF FO) 4 Or 8 Ud Int, 2d. 9A, 4th. 5 FO 30 Clie, Mutual... 1 Baltimore 0 1 Base Ball Notes. Next Monday the Mutuals and the Mansfield, of Connecticut, who have recently been admitted as contestants for the championship whip pennant, play on the Union Grounds, This will be the first professional game in this vicinity, but will not be a lee! Soran contest, as it takes place before the first of May. To-morrow (Saturday) the Eckfords open play on the Union Grounds, their opponents being a picked | nine. KU KLUX IN KENTUORY, CINCINNATI, Ohio, April 25, 1872. A special despatch from Louisville, Ky., says:—On Saturday night a party of twelve or fifteen disguised men went to a house occupied by colored people, who are employed on the farm of James Church, a few miles from Frankfort, and demanded admit- tance, which was refused, whereupon they began beating in the door, One of the inmates fired a og through a window and ran out throughs back door, bat was shot in the right arm and severely wounded. The other inmate, seeing that resistance would be useless, opened the door, when the mob rushed tn, dragged him out, beat him in a brutal manner and ordered him to leave the country, under pain of death. The next day the colored men packed up their things and went to Frankfort for safety. LYMAN TREMAIN. Interview with Him on His Position Toward the Liberals. HE WILL NOT GO TO CINCINNATI. + What He Thinks of the Liberal Move- ment and Its Leaders. 4 SOFT WORDS FOR SOREHEADS. No Hope for the Success of the Cincinnati Ticket ‘Without Democratic Assistance—The Peo- ple Take a Broader View of Af- fairs than Politicians. ALBANY, April 25, 1872. The announcement made in the Heravp letter from Cincinnati, published on Tuesday, that Lyman Tremain would be the probable presiding oficer of the Liberal Convention to be held in that city on the Ist of May next, has created considerable ex- citement among the political friends of the Judge in this section of the State, Common rumor of late has placed Mr. Tremain in the ranks of the liberal republicans; but no one at all familiar with his views ag to what the republican party ought to do at the next Presidential election has suspected for a moment that he had already “pronounced” in favor of either the Philadelphia or Cincinnatl wing; for, with all his political liberalisms, the Judge is a shrewd politician, and knows as well as the shrewd- est how, when and where to keep his own counsel. He is, however, A THOROUGH REPUBLICAN in every sense of the word, and not exactly the sort of arepublican who would, if he knew it, do any- thing to help along in life the democratic party, which he denounced from the stump during the war, and assisted in keeping under after the war was ended. I called upon him last evening at his elegant residence, in State street, for the purpose, if possible, of ascertaining whether or not he had really consented to preside over the deliberations of the Convention, and at the same time learn from him just WHAT HE THOUGHT OF THE CONVENTION, the men who gave birth to it, and its probable re- sults. He received me with his usual urbanity of manner, and, after a little general talk about mat- ters and things of no public importance, I referred to the letter in the HERALD, and asked him if the probability mentioned in it was likely to become a certainty, as far as he was concerned, The Judge looked at me rather sharply when I bluntly put this question, as though he was half inclined to flatly refuse an answer, or at best “beat the devil round the stump” in a way that would be perplexing to his inquisitive visitor. However, if this was his determination, he finally “chose the better part” and frankly replied :— “Well, sir, 1 know a great many of my political friends are going to Cincinnati, Many of them are going there simply to see what is to be seen and hear what is to be heard, and a large number of them intend to take an active part in the pro- ceedings. They have urged me to go with them, and the invitations, coming from the men they have, have been very pressing indeed.” Here Mr. Tremain came to a dead stop. Feeling convinced that my question had not elicited all the information to be desired as to whether the Judge had acceded to the “pressure,” I inquired : “Pressure or no pressure, do you intend to go to Cincinnati, Judge 1" ‘The answer came quickly and ina determined voice, effectually settling the suentce of the Cin- ene chairmanship as far as Mr. Tremain is con- cerned :— “1 DO NOT INTEND TO GO, and, as a matter of course, I will not preside over the Convention.’” “Have you S8eh at any time approached on the subject of the chairmanship by any of the liberal republicans?) “As Teald before, I have been very strongly urged by many political friends whose counsel and advice in the past have always had great weight with me to go the Convention, and at the same time 1 was told that there was a movement on foot among my friends to make me the Loge sod officer.” “Now, Judge,’ Tasked, after thus ascertaining that he had not committed himself to the plans of the liberals, “what do you think about the Cincin- nati Convention 1”? “T hear a great deal of talk about it among my friends, but am attending so closely to my law business that I do not take much active interest in politics, There seems to be a large number of very good men in favor of it; but it is hard to tell just now who and what all the men are from the various sections of the country who have come out in the various panne “calls” relating to it. have nothing whatever to complain of in the conduct of the men who intend to take active part in the Convention, or in that of the men who were instrumental in bringing the idea of the Con- vention about. I think they have a perfect right to their own opinions, and that if they are all actu- ated by good motives—motives which have no ulterior object other than the welfare of the coun- try—they have good reason to expect that many good men will follow in their wake. I do not think that anybody can justly impugn THE HONESTY OF CARL SCHURZ. He has reached the highest position he can ever hope to attain under the constitution, and he cer- tainly can have no personal ambition fn the course he has taken. The other prominent men engaged in the movement, I believe, are men of worth and ability. So, as to their taking the course they have seen fit to take, I repeat, I do not think I can com- lain; bat then, after all, there are many things to be taken into consideration other than the conduct of the promoters of the Cincinnati Convention be- fore a good republican ae their ranks.” “And they are, Judge?” “Well, I frankly confess that the present admin- istration has done some things which have not met my approval, and which I believe weakened it in the eyes of many of the republican party. For in- sree I think that General Grant should not have made A DISTINCTION AS BETWEEN TWO WINGS ofthe party in the distribution of patronage. He was elected by the whole party, and it was bad Roliey to make more of one wing than the other. hen, again, Ido not think that he has done all he might have done in endeavoring to harmonize all * conflicting interests, He should not, in my jon, have made war with one to gratify the and thus make a breach that might become rous. I do not think that his appointment of man as Tom Marphy to the Collectorship of ) ork was @ very nice exhibition of statesman- ip; but after he was appointed and the Inv estiga- ions relative to the Custom House revealed te rottenness existing in the management of its affairs, he certainly ought to have removed him at once, and that without giving him such a public endorsement as he did after he was finally removed. Had he simply removed him at once the people would have taken it for granted that the President was anxious to HEED THE POPULAR WILL, which was that the Custom House should be placed in new hands and under better control. But you see what benefit, in the people's minds, the Prest- dent got by removing Murphy—he lost by the letter of endorsement which he gaye Mur- phy afterwards, There are many other things which the administration has done | which Ido not like and which very many good re- publicans do not like; but still Tincline to the opinion that the great mass of the people take a broader view of aifairs than politicians. I think they are quite willing to overlock the mistake of the administration so long as they see that the govern- ment is being carried on economically, that the revenues are being properly collected and that the national debt is being daily decreased, With all his mistakes [ think that I WILL VOTE FOR GRNERAL GRANT, but [cannot say positively now whether f will or not, for you know many things may happen between now and the day of election to make a man make up his mind as to what way he will vote; and the Judge smiled a good natured smile, full of meaning, as he uttered the word, “Do you think Judge,” I then asked, “that the action of the Cincinnati Convention will have any effect upon th Falledel pais Convention—I mean, in the matter of forcing it to put certain planks in its platform, or throwing overboard the candidate who now seeins to be certain of getting the nomi- nation ? “J do not think it will have much effect upon the Philadelphia Convention as far as the latter’s can- didate is concerned. Indeed, I think it matters very little who the man is whom the Cincinnati Convention will nominate as far as the other Con- vention is concerned. Even though the former should take hold of the most prominent and purest republican they can find, the other Convention will nominate Grant. I think that the indications point to his certain nomination no matter what the other Convention may do, As to the effect the one may have on the platform of other, that is another question. It may make such a good, sound platform that. the other Convention will be found to put some of the planks in its own platform; but there would be nothing out of the way in its doing this, It would be simply AN ACT OF GOOD POLICY, and the Philadelphia Convention would bo very un- HERALD, FRIDAY, APRIL 26, 1872—TRIPLE SHEET. wise, indeed, if it did not take advantage of every- thing possible to make its platform sound and strong, even though to do so it would be forced to tae. | & plank or two out of the platform of its rivi “What do you think about the chances of the tri. Bapnot the candidates of the Cincinnati Conven- tion “That isa question which may be answered in various ways. You see the Cincinnati Convention is su experimen}, and the history of past experi- ments of the kind shows that success does not fol- low them. You, doubtless, remember the Cleve- land Convention, and how the candidates withdrew before the election took place. Then the Phila- delphiasConvention was another example. It Is very haTd to get the people to believe in these ex- periments, Cincinnati Convention may be an exception.” “Have you any idea, Judge, that the liberal republicans can, of themselves, poll enough votes to defeat Grant, supposing the democrats run & separate ticket of their own?” TARE GRANT BEFORE A DEMOCRAT. “As to that I think the case is a very clear one. Every good republican will prefer Grant to # demo- erat, and the only chance the democrats would have of electing their own ticket would le in the power of the liberals to polla strong republican vote for their candidate. This they cannot do if the democrats run a ticket of their own,” “Why do you think so?” “Because, as I said before, a good republican will refer Grant to a democrat. Now, my opinion is that the only hope the ' candidates of the Cincinnati Convention will have of an elec- tion rests with the support of the democrats. If they can poll a large republican vote and be sup- ported by the democrats Grant will have a close run of it; but if the democrats do not support them I do not think they will have a ghost of a chance.” THE “LIBERALS”? NOWHERE WITHOUT THE DEMOO- RACY. “Then the success of the candidates of the Cin- cinnati Convention in the long run will depend upon the democrats ?” “Precisely. The democrats have the whole thin, in their own hands, ‘The indications are, as far as have been able to learn, that the democrats will not nominate any ticket tf the action of the Cin- cinnati Convention 1s satisfactory; but what their ideas of that “satisfactory” are is a question which I don’t think anybody can answer just at present. The liberal republicans are well aware of this, and will, no doubt, endeavor to so shape their action as to draw the democrats to their support. To do this, and at the same time make a platform that good republicans can stand upon, is no small task, and it will doubtless exercise the ingenuity of the ernie of the resolutions to a considerable ex- ent. “Then you belleve that alone by themselves the liberal republicans are powerless to defeat Grant 9? “I believe so, for this reason:—If the democrats runa ticket of their own every good republican preter Hing Grant to a democrat, and seeing that by clinging to the fortunes of the liberal candidates they indirectly yelp to elect a democrat, will go over to the other side and SUPPORT THE REGULAR REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES. “This is my candid opinion, and if the democrats run a separate ticket the result, I venture to say, will bear me out in what I have sald. Indeed, I will go further, and say that if the democrats run a candidate of their own the lberal republican party will go to pieces and the rank and file go over to Grant, 80 as to prevent beyond a doubt the election of a democrat.” This ended the interview, and, thanking Mr. Tre- ee for his courtesy, your correspondent with- rew. MISCELLANEOUS POLITICAL NOTES. eal geen ae 2 Speaking of the Cincinnati gathering, the St. Louis Kepudlican (passivist) says no convention for the last fifty years has met under more favorable aus- pices. It is, in every sense of the phrase, ‘a peo- ple’s convention, owned by no party, directed by no faction, hampered by no selfish interests, but seeking only the greatest good of the greatest num- ber.” The Cincinnati Times thinks the mass meeting in Porkopolis should be called the “Dolly Varden Con- vention’’—it will be composed of so many different colors. A Western paper asserts that the democratic managers at Washington have sent moncy into the South to pay the expenses of delegates from that section to Cincinnati who will vote for Davis, General Sigel goes for Grant. The Milwaukee Sentinel says the liberal republi- can meeting held in that city on the 20th inst. was a failure, and adds that “whichever way the oppo- sition political cat jumps, Wisconsin will give a heavier republican majority next fall than ever be- fore.”” General Logan, some of the quid nunes say, docs not sympathize with the Cincinnati movement. “Grant and Wilson” is the Presidential ticket of the Missouri Democrat. Which Wilson? : Tioga county republicans will send a large dele- gation to Cincinnati. Matilda Fletcher is stumping Towa for Grant. A State that is governed too much—Florida. St, Louis is moving for the honor of holding the Democratic National Convention, Defrees goes back on his old friend Colfax, and Colfax is trying to go back on Defrees, The Chicago Times (democratic) asserts that Charles Francis Adams could not carry a single Western State for President, Helper (of “Crisis” notoriety) has started a Mb- eral republican campaign paper in North Carolina. The “Cincinnati conundrum” is the latest title for the Liberal Convention, and Horace Greeley is ex- pected to solve it. All the members of the Wisconsin delegation are candidates for another term in Congress. In the First district (new) C. G. Williams, of Janesville, is most prominently named, and in the Eighth Messrs. Barrow, Pound, McIndoe, Kingston, Miner, Alban and Stevenson are already entered, Jobn P. C. Shanks, Member of Congress, has car- ried the republican primaries in the Ninth District of Indiana. J. N. Camden, of Parkersburg, beaten for Gov- ernor of West Virginia in 1868, 1s likely to be the democratic candidate again this year, Governor Jacob going upon the Supreme Bench. In the Electoral College of 857 votes, this year, the former slaveholding States will have 134 votes, the Western States 102, the New England and Mid- dle States 109, and the Pacifle States 12 votes. Therefore, according to geographical apportion- ment, the South is still the leading political power in the Union. The St. Joseph (Mo.) Herald thinks the “Cincin- nati movement will compel the republicans to be tolerant; to permit a wider latitude of opinion and expression on all topics than has heretofore been allowed by dogmatical and narrow-minded leaders.” Ex-Judge Jerry Black, of Pennsylvania, has no very exalted opinion of the Cincinnati movement. Connecticut will be largely represented at Cincin- nati. Delegations will go from Hartford, New Haven, Waterbury, Norwich, Norwalk, Stamford, New Canaan, Plainfield, Danbury, Winsted, and many other places, The Hartford Post refers to the sentiment in the State as follows :— We are so far acquainted with the sentiment of the State in relation to the movement as to feel warranted in saying that it has the support and has received warm expressions of sympathy from citt- zens occupying the highest political, educattonal, financial and theological positions, who by the very reason of their position have felt unwilling to pub- licly endorse a political movement, The St. Louis Republican thus maps out what the Cincinnati Convention should do:— ‘The platform framed for it ought to be brief, sim- ple and pointed. There is little danger of leaving too much unsaid, for, when the movement gets fairly started it will have its own say about all vital questions before the people, Its real platform will be framed by itself, and will be an aggregate of the whole national and local opposition to the policy of the present administration, It is of much import- ance that a good ticket should be presented—a ticket representing, as far as possible, the virtues which its antagonist does not 88—Intelligent statesmanship, respect for the laws, stainless per- sonal reputation, and high oficial probity, The Boston Post (democratic) speaks of the Cin- cinnati Convention as a tide of enthusiasm that rises higher dally all over the country, and regards it as a movement of the people, “silent, steady and determined.” The Cincinnatl Enqutrer (democratic) says the contest for the Cincinnati nomination for President seems to be narrowing down to Charles Francis Adams, Lyman Trumbull and Salmon P. Chase. Mr, Horace Greeley, J. Gratz Brown and Judge Davis, of Minois, will not be without friends; but the concentration of the public sentiment that fs In this movement {s upon the first three named caudi- dates, ‘The Cincinnati Commercial (anti-administration) remarks, in regard to the Convention, that it ts the political enigma of the times, and that there will be more excitement and feeling about {ts proceed- ings than there has been in regard to any popular assemblage or representative body since the war. ‘The Washington Republican, administration, re- marks that a Northern democratic paper believes that the Cincinnati Convention is “another Sumter call.” Yea, the rebel call to fire on the Star of the ‘Weat, which 18 Grant we suppose 3 THE CINCINNATI CONVENTION, Influx of Liberal Pilgrims to the Shrine at Porkdom. A TEUTONIC-AMERICAN HODGE PODGE, Rich Cargo for Sale, with Pig Tron at the Bottom. THE DAVIS AND PALMER TACTICS. Trambull and Grats Brown Both ‘Sailing -In”— Fenton and MoClure Discarded—A Rough Shot for Charles Francis Adams—The Proposed Soldiers’ Convention in New York. CINCINNATI, April 25, 1872, A large number of delegates have arrived, and the diMculty of evolving order out of this chaos of in- dividual and irrepressible angularity seems to strike all. Everybody, no matter how insigni- ficant—German or American—has his own notions, As a leading spirit sald to-day, “There 19 too much: intellect in this movement.’ It is now generally believed that Davis is not a posssible candidate, the arrogance and activity of the Congressional and editorial democrats having expended them- selves and opened the eyes of the Convention to the suspicion that the Davis «movement is a matter of bargain and sale, with abundant pig iron at the bottom of it. Davis will get on the first or informal) ballot the full votes of Maryland, Indiana, and per-| haps Pennsylvania, with part of the votes of lowa and some of the Soutaern States. PALMER'S FRIENDS SELLING OUT. ‘The friends of John M. Palmer, who ts Davis’ most bitter rival, have concluded a sale with Reuben BE. Fenton and A. K. McClure, by which, after the first ballot, Palmer is to get solidly New York, Pennsyl- vania and Indiana, with as much of Illinois as he can carry off. It seems that Palmer despatched M. B. Brown, instantly after he endorsed the liberal movement, to hold this conference with the Eastern political merchants. Greeley is understood to have transferred to Fen~ ton attorneyship in the premises, and Palmer, re< ciprocally, is to go back on revenue reform andi consent to have a protectionist for Vice President. It is general talk here to-day that Palmer and Fenton have made this negotiation. TRUMBULL'S CHANCES. | to the ground, and do away with corruption, The Western free traders have taken the alarm and will rally alternately to the support of Trumbull or Brown, both of whom are unmistakable revenue reformers. Trumbull will show considerable strength at the outstart. Schurz, Koerner and the leading Germans are for him. He will have the bulk of the support of Mlinois, Towa, Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and the whole of New York. GRATZ BROWN WILL PROBABLY BE NOMINATED. If there be any faith in the word of Reuben Ey Fenton, Gratz Brown will come in with Missouri, Kansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas—per- haps Mississipp! and Louisiana—and at the pinch Maryland and some scattering South- ern votes, It looks very much as if Brown might be nominated. He will be present in person, and, it is urged, he will encounter less op- position from the democrats than any other candi- date, Davis not excepted, 100 LATE AND TOO ROUGH. George E. Pugh says that if Adams be the candi.’ date he will stump Ohio for Grant. Mr, Adams has no other strength than Ohio and New England, and perhaps a few votes from Michigan, NO SHOW FOR FENTON, M’CLURE OR WARMOTH. The original movers of the Liberal Convention are already disgusted with Fenton and McClure, and look upon them as political speculators, coming here to peddle for power. The Convention at Cincinnati will be composed of original and indignant men, and people like Fenton, McClure and Warmoth will be handled without gloves if they attempt to cut up shines. Adams’ letter is looked upon as a piece of “High Joint” snobbery. MILITARY CONVENTION IN NEW YORK. A Soldiers, Convention will be held in New YorR in May, to protest against Grant's nomination at Philadelphia. The call is signed by Generals Kilpatrick, Bartlett and Barnum. J. D. Cox or Judge Brinkerhoft will preside over the Convention. THE NEBRASKA LIBERALS, | No Helf Measures for the Prairie State Philadelphia Must Expect No Assistance from Her Domains. Nepraska Crry, Neb., April 25, 1872, The Convention of Liberal Republicans of this State was held here to-day, and twenty-one dele- gates were appointed to represent Nebraska In the Cincinnati Convention, Resolutions were adopted declaring themselves as friends of independe nd reform, the purpose of the liberal republicans to express their will through other mediums than a “packed” conven~ tion of office-hol ders of the administration. ‘That no good can be expected from the Phila- delphia Convention, manipulated as it Is by an ad- ministration star chamber which is using the ma- chinery of a great party for its own selfish pur- poses and with the money of the people, j That tne interests of the country demand the presentation this year of a Presidential candidate thoroughly versed in civil affairs and well schooled in statesmanship. ‘That we demand an administration which shalt insure thorough civil service reform, and as a basis for such reform, the eeree, of @ constitutionak amendment restricting the Presidency to one term. ‘That we decline to fight over again the dead! issnes of the war at the bid of the sycophant 60,000 who flourish the party lash and threaten us with a political guillotine if we refuse. That it behooves us to bear s rty VOr- itism and nepotism in oifice and insure a repubil- can, not an oligarchical, government, and to this end we send a delegation to the Cincinnatl Conven- tion. S80UTH OAROLINA DELEGATES TO THE OIN- CINNATI CONVENTION, CHARLESTON, 8. C., April 25, 1872. A delegation has been chosen by the liberal re- publicans of this city to represent them at Cincin- nati. Among the delegates are R. EB. Dereef, Rich- ard Holloway and Shrewsbury, three of the most intelligent » a wential colored republicans. A movemeut is on foot in Columbia to send delc- gates to represent the State at large. NEW JERSEY LIBERALS. Scovell’s Refusal of a Nomination for Vice President. CAMpEN, N. J., April 25, 1872. A delegation of reform republicans called on Mr. James M. Scovell to-day with a letter, signed by 100 republicans, who desire to present Mr. Scovell’s name for Vice President. Mr. Scovel replied that he was not a candidate at Cincinnati. “This con- test,” he said, “requires an older and an abler sol- dier than myself.” THE GERMAN LIBGRAL REPUBLICANS, The German Delegation to the Cincin= nati Convention. ‘The German delegation to the Cincinnatt Conven- tion, appointed by the German Liberal Republican Central Committee to represent the Germans of this city at Cincinnati, met at Germania Hall, 200 Third avenue, last evening, to make final arrange- ments for their departure to Cincinnati, to receive the report of the Transportation Com- mittee, &c, The German delegation is made up of six delegates, one for each Sen- atorial district, and {is com dd oof the following, gentlemen:—Theodore Glaubensiee, Dr. Kepler, Ferdinand Traud, Frederick Schack, Morita Ellinger and Dr. Gerke. ‘The alternates are Messrs, Charles Wendt, Henry Wehle, Charles Taenzer, Paul Schnitzler, Adam Fahs andG. Wollbrecht. The delegates are instructed by their constituency to gee to it that the principles embodied in the plat- form of the German liberal republicans in reference toa thorough reform of the civil service and the ch a political one term principle be adopted by the © g a PI! ip y the Convention