The New York Herald Newspaper, November 26, 1867, Page 4

; 4 NEW YORK HERALD, TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 26, 1867.—TRIPLE SHEET. cave any at that time Lo issus Qoesmox—Did you dent that bis prociam sions between yourse asowan Ne sir, 1 irequendy had to intercede for General Leo and other paroled officers, on the ground that their parole, 80 long as they obeyed the laws of the Vinited states, protected them from arrest and tri "Toe President at that me occupied exactly the same rounds, viz:—That they should be tried and punished. ‘He wanted to know when the time would come that they should be punished, I wold Bim mot go long as thoy eneyed the laws and complied: with the stipulation. ‘That was the ground [ wok, @ Did you not also insist that that applied as wel! to she common soldier? A, Of course; it applied to every ene who took the parole, but the mattor was vassed except in case of some of the lenders ; in gurrondering thelr armies and arms they had could not ali of them have been com- Portion of them could have escap «, but they surrendered in consideration of the faci bat aboy were to be exempt trou trial so long as they con- formed to the obligations they had taken; and they’ wore entitled to that, Q You .ooked on that in the mature of a parole, and held that they could oniy bo tried whon they violated that le? A. Yos; that was the view [ wok of the question. Q@ That ie your view sll? A. Yo re Did you understand that to apply ty nding of the arrangement i Leet A. That was my moat which I gave volun. y was the first to surrender, t terms all the rebel armies would surrender, and that we would thus avoid vush- whacking and a continuation of the war in 4 way that wo would make very litle progress with, having uo organized armies to mee! Q You considered that the terias wore given Dy Ceneral Sherman tw the armies which surrendered to him? A. Yes, sir; and to all the armies that surrender- ad after that, Q. And you held that so long as they Kept thelr parole of honor, and obeyed the iaws, they were not subject to be tried by courts? A. That is my opinion, 1 will state here that I am not quite certain whether | am being tried or who is being tried by t Mr. Evparmor—I am not t y. Lam ing as to tte President's proclamation, and to t he entertained: did you give theee views to ¢ deutt General Grant—TI have stated (hose viows to the Proa!- dent frequentiy, and, as Ihave said, be disagreed with me in those views; he insisted on it that the leaders must be punished, and wanted to know when tue time would come that those prisoners could be tried; { told him when they violated their parole. Q. Did you cousider that that applied te Jeff Davis A. Na, sir, he did not take any parole, '@ He did not surrender’ who was captured, only to those who were Q@ That was your unders which you made wit undersiandiog of aa @ Jeneral Lee's a: 1 Q. Did the President insist that Genera! Lee should be tried for treason? A. He contended for it. Q. And you ciaimed io bim that the parole which Genera! Lee had given would be violatea in such a trial ? A. Idid; Timsisted on it that General Lee would not have surrendered his army and given up all their arms, af he supposed that after surrendering he was going to be tried for treason and hanged; I thought we got a very good equivalent for she lives of 4 fow leaders in getting all their arms and gettmg themselves under control, bound by their oaths to obey the laws; that was tbe consideration which I insisted upon we had received. Q. Did the Provident argue that question with you? A. There was not much argument about it; it was merely assertion, Q After you had exprossed your opinion about it did he cotncide with you? A. No, sif, not then; he after- wards got to agreeing with rae on that subject; I never claimed that the parole gave these prisoners ay politi- cal right whatever; I thought that that was matter en- tieoly witn Congress, over which I had mo control; that sumpty as General-in-Chief, commanding the army, [ had-s right to stipulate for the surronder on terms which protected their tives; that ie all [ claimed; tue parole gavo them provection and exemption from punishment Tor all offences not in violation of the rules of civilized warfare, so long as their parole was kept, Q Do you recollect at what time you had thave con- versations? Can you stato any particular (ime, or up to any pariicular time when (hey were finished? A, The conversations were frequent after the inauguration of Mr, Johnson; I cannot give the time; he seemed to be anxious to get at the leaders to punish them; he would say that the leaders of tho rebellion must be punished, aod that treagon must be made odious; he cared nothing for tho men in the ranks, the coumon men; he would let them go, for they were led izto it by the ieaders, BQ Was that prior or subsequent to bis procla- mation? A. [t was subsequent, I think Q@ Do you recollect at any time urging the President to go further in granting amnesty than he had gone in his proclamation? @. Just aw | said before, I could not see apy reason why the fact of @ volunteer rising to the rank of s General should exclade him any more tha any oiher grades; with reference to the $20,000 cinuse I thought that a man’s success in the world wss no reason for his being excluded fgom wuneriy, but I recollect afterward saying to the President that I thought Le was right ta that particular, and | was wrong. ‘Q. Was that gnid to youin conversation A. Ihave time that deleca- south, Q. What persons do you recollect as vetng present at these conversations—i mean, what Southern men? A. I did not know them at all; I recollect that oa one oc- casion he taiked toa delogation from Kichmond in that way: Ido not know of aay other; | never changed my views: if be was going to grve amnesty to a aoldier at all, Tdid not seo why the fact of a man’s having risen to the rank of General should be a reason (or exvlu- ding bun, @ Did you not advise the Prosident that it was proper and right he vould Brant amvest A. [do not think | sald anything on that subject; I only looked on the proclamation as one which he was determined to issue, and asa thing suscepiible to amendment or improve- ment, Q. Did you not give your opinion at all that amnesty ought to be to those people to any extent’ A, know that 1 was ta favor of some proclamation of ti ‘and perhaps I may have said so; it was necesrary something to establish govermmeats and civii law j 1 wanted vo sce tbat done, but do not think I oe to dictate what ought (o be done. Q. you notardvise? A, I don’t think I ever did 1 bave given my opinion, perhaps, as to what has be done, but I do not think I advised amy course myself, aay more than that I was very anxious tesee something dione to restore civil governments in those States. @ Id you evor give your opinion at all to the Pres\- dent as to what shonid bedoner A. Ido uost I did; after inatiors were done'l was willing to ex; " oninion for of against particular clauses. Q I suppose the President called on you for advice these questions? A. | aay I was in favor, und 50 proesed myself, of something being done to restore ° thete immediately az mear as it could be done under cireumstances, Q. Did you sugeeet anything? A. No, sir. Ly Nr. Woovwaincr—Q. I waderstand your position to be ihis: That you dod not assume to originate or insuy Fal@ ang policy, hut that when any question came up and aod your opinion was asked as to what tho President ‘ras going to do or had done, you gave an opi A. That is it, exactly, and I presumed tho whol i553 ad tried mot to im 1. was always ready to ining to the army, bat I to originate matters pertuin- government. of tim United States; niom about what had been prople originate matters per er was willing to the civ ne pla ry " y @o measures \after they had Leen originated ¥ expremed anAanriety that something should be sort of control down there; there when the war was rninent establishe my 32 ‘wore no governm: J wanted to see how it should be « Hy Mr, Ecormce—Q T eont to war and peace. In expressing the opinion that some- id be done aud done quickly, did you make fextion of what ought to be done’ state here that before Mr. the quertion about issuing a proctar aul establishing some sort of civil ed after Mr. fice, Tt opinion on that afier it was ° nt, 1 think Lincoin's administration when a proclamatiot bec prepared waa read; afier his aseasvinat ong, and I was there with M give President Jonson your op. of the proclamation which you & ap in death and wae contigyed afterward iven my opinion on particular passages hat had mn ik COM. you recollect, A. Ihave Tean recollect, | disagreed with two clauses of the prociamaiion as to ihe pien of extabliabing provisional covernors there: that was a question which I kpew nothing abo wd whieh I do a about; the ered om that War: | thongbs 0 would be some difficntty in getting peopie down there to accept offices, bat I found aftorwari thas they were ready enough to take them, Dy the Pusinwas--@ if T understand you correc the'on'y opinion you expressed and tle oniy adv that vou gave were in reference to military side She question. and mot in recerenee te the civil side? A. Nothing farther than that I was anxious that sonething A. No, sir; it applied to no SE SPE BER See See ath RA TE ae eee Tn alee Dee ORR I EBS ESSN SF all iad ak Pa ee SOE SS ETE AS Sac EE hee hc SR ai ec AO I EMS Oe Se ee EL OE Se NEE SiS ET A é > Zz ~ twice daring Mr, | | summer, | cone: waa as devoted to the Union cause as any woman whose husband was on our side, Phoro was punsiderad'e prop- erty ih Mary which had not been confiscated which he inherited, I thought that bis wife aod bis chil- dren were catitiod w © property. Genera! Hunter thought ao too. My recommendation was not out of ay favors to Goaoral Sivart, Q. Wore inose circumstances presented to the Prosi- dent asa reason for his pardon? A I do not know that they were or were not; | merely sigued a recom- monda‘iou. . Q. Dd that contain the Matement you have given? A [donot r rit did or 1 do not know that I mstances to the Vresident, Q Do you recollect siguiag the rocemmendation of M.D. Eetou, # rebel brigadier general? A. No, wir; collect of thera being @uch & general in the rebel The report in the House is that he was pardoned op recommendation o| a! Grant aad Jobo Hancock? A. Ido not recollect any such person as Joba Mancock or tho general named, 5 Q Do you recalieet Lioyd J, Dean “Beall?” A Yas, Did you sign aa application or make a recommend~ ‘on for hig pardon? A. Ido not think the records will his pardon, but Lam not sure ; rough me with re T should send it to the President with some } My Focoliection is that | made some as Co hia general character, which was bigh, ap to the breaking cut of the war, as any mari’s contd be, Q Were you acquaiuted with him provions to the breaking out of tao A, Ob for many i, , but l may know thas he gent his applica: quest th: liect P. D, Roddy, sad to bo a rebel ‘Drigad 1 do not recollect wi my endorsement was in Roddy's case, but T know that. if Thad to do dou very quickiv, and i presume I did.so. If he is not pardoned yet I would be very giad tosign 4 recommenda tien for hita mow. |. Do you recollect anv other officers of the rebel My who were recommended for pai yout A, No, sir, I cannot mention any. You hi already o over # bixger bat than I thought I had recommend I do not think I recommended General Pickett for par- doa, [recollect receiving lotter after lotter frou him, aud letters w § to me time and again in his be- was eepecially uneasy leat ho should be tried ommission, om account of some men whe im North C; na, 1 do not recollect talked to the President about him. I wilt furnish whatever is im my office about him. I received one appeal after another in Pickett’s behalf, pot only frots bim, but from officers in the army who bad known ina before the war, Q Do you know whether he has been pardoned yet? A. Ido not know, Iwas not in favor of bis pardon,’ nor was I im favor of his being tried by 8 Military Com- mission. think bis great anxiety was to receivo some aseurance that be would not be taken up and imprisoned for offences alleged against him as a commander in North Carolina. He wanted to be able to go to work and make a living, It is Mkely 1 may have recommended that he be given assurance that he would not be arrested and imprisoned. Do not think that I signed a recom- mendation for hie pardon. You have no right to ask what my opinion is now. Q Was hean active rebel officer? A. Yes, sir; he was charged with executing a number of North Carolina refugees who were en oe with a garrison under Gen- eral Wesse!la, in North Carolina These men had gone there to evade the rebel conscription, or it may be had deserted from the rebel army, and were tried as daser- ters and auite a number of them executed. Pickett was in commaud at the time, and a good deal wag said as to his having approved tho proceedings. Fremch was an active rebel oificer and served im the field. He ((eneral Great) had not heard of bim tauch in the field, but he was onthe James river when McClellan was im com- maud, Q Md you ever qdvise the pardon of General Lee? A. Yes, sir; General Lee forwarded his application for ainnesty througtt me, and I forwarded it to the Presi- deut, a8 praved; 1 do not recollect haviug had any con- versition with tho President on that subject; I think it probable that I recommended the pardon of General Jounston immediately after the surrender of his army, on uccount of the address he delivered to 1t, which | con- sidered in good tone and epirit; I recollect speaking of that, aud saying that I should be glad if Genera: Jobn- siow reeaived his pardon on account of the manly rman- ner in which he addressed his troops. By the Caarr“an—i supposed hiv pardon would have @ good eflect; do not remember that I spoke to the Secretary of War on the subject, By Mr. Eroaincr—I remember going at one time to eee the President with General Hillyer, but it was rela- tive toam appoiatment he (Hillyer) wanted; I do not recollect that the conversation went beyond the range of siatiug what I knew about Hi rt; I think i met Hillyer once or twice afterward when the President was present, but 1 Lave no recoliection of any conversation With the President on the subject of goneral amuesty, or on the suivjoct of amnesty at all; | have never recom. mondod genoral amnesty, aad never was im favor of it, Wu the time shail come when it is safe to give is. Mr. Writiams-—I do not recoilect having had any sation onthe subject ef universal amnesty; T pould not have recommended such a thing, because I never was in favor of it until the time shall come when it is safe, Q. You state that you differed with the President as to two poinis in the proclamation, but that views afterwards changed, State when.the President's mind changed and underwent a change, A. It would be very hard, [ re¢kon, to fix it, but it was along !n thesummer of 1864, not more than two or three months afer the North Caroiina proclamation of May 20. By Mr. Woovsnmae—W: I said that the President's Views onderwent a change, I meant that while 1 was contending for the rigutawhich lose rebel paroied sol- diors had, be was lusisting on it shat they should be punished By 2 ‘y ur, EL.nmipae—Any eorrerpondence I ever had with the President is official, and can de furnished; I had to make frequent eadorsemomts on the subjects of dhe rigbts of those ied prisoners; the only corre. spondence thai I could have bad on the subject of am- nesty was wheal recommended men for pardon, as in the case of French and others, of all which I kept copies, and will furnish them; 1 recollect the Ni Carolina proclamation, which was the frat one giving a ‘State government; was present when it was read, it waa in the direction I wanted; 1 was anxious to see a temporary government (here, and! did not want to seo anarehy. Q Did you give any opinion in favor of that propor. tion’ A. c — any opinion against it 1 was in favor of that or aaything else which looked to civil gov- erament until Congress could meet and establish gov- eruments there; | did not want all chaos left there no form of civil government whatever; 1 was not in vor of anything or opposed to anything particularly; I ‘was sitoply in favor of having government ; tad ‘not pretend to give my, juécmeatas to what it should be; 1 waa perfectiy witling to leave it to the civil depart- ment; I asked no person what I ahonld de in my duties; 1 was willing to take al! the responsibility, and did not nt to give my views as to what (he civil branch of the heid rank in the army? A. That wae during tue rebel Mr, Johngon was Military i nerat Hamilton in Te: them any privileges or By Mr. Bi oewen, — %, you that itdid’ A. He ¢! ing that the tirae muet come when they conid be tried and punished, and I claiming that the time would not except by vio- lation of their parole; Tclaimed that I gave them no politics! privileges, but that T had aright as military com- mander to arrange terms of surrender which wouls pro. tect the lives of those prisoners; | believe that it i¢ ron. ceded by everybody that | had thet right; T know that Mr. Lincoln conceded it at the time, By Mr. Bovrwris.—Q. How recently has the Preai- dent expregsed to you the opinion that General Lee or others, who had the bonofit of parole, should be wied aud punished? A. Not since about vw Hi me heard the any remark in revere of Congreass from the rebel A. Tanne! members uiee into either House? y positively what 1 bave heard hun «ay i on that sohject, e heard him say as haps, in nis publiehed apeeches last summer heard bem at all upon that sub him say, and, { thiak T have heard bit twice in bis speeckes, that if che North carried (he elections by members rnongh to give them, with the Southern inem- ' majority, why would they not he the Congress oP? che Uuited Slates’ [hare heard him say thet sev. eral bon By Mr. Wusiewe—Q. When you say “the North,” you moan the democratic party of the North; or, in other words, the party favoring hit policy + A.’ I mena ff the Nortiy oarried enough members in favor of the admis- sion of the South. [did not hear bim say that he would ognive taem asa Congress Trmercly heard him sek the question, “Why would they not Ds the Congress *’ Iheard bim say iiat in one or two speeches; do not reoollect where, By My. Bovrwet—Q. Haye you hoard him mate a remerk Kindrod 1 toat elsewhere’ A. Yer. [have him say that aside from h's «peecnes—in con- be versation. Osanot eay just when. itqwas probably 4 chat fame Lune Q Have yo ni lin at any tine make any remark or enggestion concerning the legality of Cofgreas, with pereeaciuded’ A, He siinded tothat ly on lis tour to Chicago and back Jast ‘aoches were generally” reporved with vary: rennet recollect wha he maid ts erable are over again [ would recommend bis par. tion, L would have assented to that er almost anything olge that would bave «tven stable ment tere; i ference to sho optuion | gave. on ‘tho, amnesty prociamation, 1th ok I have tostiied prety futiy; I told the President 1 witb him on the clauges oxcludiag volunteer generais, and a to the $20,000 clause; [do not aay ‘as to tho rest of 1b, whether it was too loniemt or Stringent; can slate what I thought about it, but mob what I said about it: T know thet 1mmediatey after the clase of the rebellion thero was a very fine f manifested in the South, and I thought we ought to take advan. tago of it as S000 a8 possible, Dut sivod that there bas an ovidemt change wore; I may have’ expressed my views to the I’resident, 1 do not recollect particularly; I,do not suppose that (here wore any porsons engaged in that consultation who thought of what was being don@at that time as boi lasing any Lodger than unit would meet au either ratify thas or establishsome other form of gov- ernment, I know it never crossed my mind that what was being done was anything more than temporary; I undorstoud this vo be the view ef tho Prosideat aad of everybody else; I did not know of any difference of opinion on the subsect; NO was very anxious to bave Congross ratify uis views; Mr Linooin prior to bis asaas- stpation bad inaugurated @ policy intend=d (o restore those governments; I was present once before bis mur- der whea a plan was read; the pian adoptod by Mr. Johnson was tantiaily the pian which had been'ims angurated by Mr. Lincola as the basis for his futuro ction; 1 do not know that it was verbatim the same; T tink the very paper which I beard road twice while Mr, Lincoin was President was the one which wat car ried right through. a A: The North Carolina prow hat paper waa thas? clamation, Q. You underatood that Mr. Lincoln's plau waa tem~ porary, to be either confirmed or a government set up by Congress? A, Yes, amd I understood Johnson's tobe #o too; that was my impression; I never beard the President say the plan waa to be temporary, but I av satisfled everybody looked at it as a:mply “emporary ‘until Congress mot, Q. You stated that the North Carolina proclamation was a continuation of the project subm tied by Mr, Lilt cola; I wisn to inquire of you whether you ever com: pared thom to ascertain whether they were the game or not? A. No, sir, [never compared them; I took thom to be the vary, vory same paper; they wore substantially the same, tf not the very samo, A On July 20 Genera , being recalied, said he had had a conversatio ho President im company with Genera! Hillyer, * notaimg important had trans pired. General Grant aso testified in reference to the Maryland ciection trouvies. The Presiden’ had doter- mined to use th ‘y power in behalf of Governor called bie attention to the law subject, which chauged bis views and dovermina- tion evidently. Some trvops—about fifteen hundred— wore gout to Baltimore, to be used in case of # riot Thoir serviove wero not needed. Testimony of Secretary McCullock. Mr. Movuitoch tentified that be bad appointed Mr. Ftanagan Naval vicer of Philadeiphia by ordor of the President, and described at length tho manner of the appointments in the ‘Treasury Department, He said tuat the estabiisninent of the revenue aysiem im tho South was intended for the benefit of the South, and thought that the original revenues were not as well col- lected aa they would nave been if the general appoiu-eos bad been permitted to retain their original oMicers. He testified that never to his knowledge had ho appointed anybody couvicted of enme. Judge Chase’s Testimony. ‘The Hon. Salmou P. Chase, who was examined May ‘25, staced ia reply to a question of the chairman that he knew of no reasom why she government did not bring on the trial of Jeff Davis; when the war was practically closed by the capture of Davis, and before that t:me, the District and Circuit were heid in Virginia by the District Judge, in the absence of a justice of the Supreme Court; the {nciotment against Davis was found in a circuit court, over which the District Judge presided; the Circuit Court bad been regularly held by the same District Judge ever since, and he knew of no reason why Davis could not be brought ¢o trial if it was ine tended that he should be tried by the civil court on the iudiotment which was found at that time. The Chief Justice atated that he recollected no conversation on that subject siace the time of the indictment. Tae Cir- cuit, of which the District of Virginia is part, was al- lotted to bim shortly aftor he went ou the Bench in De- cember, 1864. Since then he had only one or two con- versations with the President in reterenes to the holding of that court, and although the ersations were not fresh in his recollection, he could very easily rocollect the substance of them, | By the President's prociama- tion of April 2, 1866, dectaring the insurrection at an ond in all the rebel Siates, except Texas, i desired to join the District Judges in holding Circuit Gourts, be- Heving that it was my daty to do so ag soon as the mili- tary authority bad been withdrawn; bot military com- missions were still being issued from time to time, or triala were held under military commission at diferent points within my cirevit, which included Wir- ginia, and { wished to be agsured that the procia- mations relieved the Uaiied States Cireurt Courts from all liability to interiere om the part of the meeting; i in- tended to join in holding the courts, if such relief could be assured ; I called, therefore, upen the President and asked him to issue a short proclamation to that effect; I submitted to bim a formal one, drawn by myself, stating that military authority as ‘and the habeas corpus restored in al! places within the jurisdiction of the United States; he expressed a great readiness to do everything thas was a to facilliate wy desire to hold the conrts, but he said that his lamation of Apri! 2 was sufficient for that purpose; 1 replied that I also thought so at first, nn6 sheit Crobeby Sate 58 mained of that opinion if thee military com: had not been going om, and that what ! desired wasa deciaration over his signaiure construing the: ion Girtineily on these two points, that the rule was abrogated tn civil cases and the courts of the United States, so that the circuit could rye withont risk ot care jon from the military CRUD: ig gapreszed big iDes* to do rything f wie a det him and nothing wag 1 presuy tho President Neurred to his n that bie proclamatio seeing the insurrec- tan end was suiitei a T did pot think it worth while to do any moro; that, however, is were inferenco; ted a form of proc! pissed pi isaue a similar oue, but ii that js ail; conversstions occurred in the spring or summer of 1866, shortly after au act of Congress was passed reduc- ing the number and changing ali the Circuit Courts ex- copt the first and second, he all) Judges that wi Ro jurisdiction to hold courts ourselves; Leaid to the Untied States District Attorney for the District of Vjr- gas that I should have joimed the district judge in olding the Circuit Courtif the order first mentioned had been igswed ; suits for some time ed to done. of seven of the wake allotments we bad did not see the law changing the cir- after it was passed, and when I did s0¢ it 1 conferred with every one of the judges about it except the judge then im California, and we ail agreed that any judgment entered in any court by a judge of Court, except im the first were mot changed, might rsed oon order, amd for courts shoald be left to be held by tho district judge until « new aliotm shonld be authorized py Congress; the act I refer to is the act of July 23, 1866, altering seven of the circuits; the President seat forme to the White Hoare in Au- gat, 1865, and asked my views ss to the trial of vies wae cuggested, and also the i ‘ennessee, and something was said about a vial by military commission, or in this city, Tpoa indictment, if one should be found by the Supreme Court of the District; I said to him that the trial of Davia, as to time, manner y war, | thonght, a tion of the Fx. he xoverument, about which I, i Department, do not wish to express any opin bat when [ held thecourt [ shonld try auyhody whe came Nefore but T did uot desire to express an opinion referen: the time or pl T did not think eho tris! of e it was time whether Davis shonid bé tried by « military or by a civil court; { would express apy desire or mm. ~ hd have Lim tried ia the disiriet in which [ ie, . you had conversati ong with the President on t of Uh ot Jeflerzon Davis’ A, Crecol. indictment was founded. T ot whieh the District of Virginia ie part was me shortly after | went om the bench, in December, 1964; 1 had a difference with the President in rela- tion to bolding a court in that ciromit. @ State the conversation a hed with the Presi. dont. A. After (be Presdent’# prociamation of April ‘2, 1866, declaring the tmenrrection at ag end in al! the Tebet States erowpt Texas, J desired to join the District Jndges in holding Cirewit Courts, believing is was my duty to do so emee the milltary power bad been withdrawn ; ‘dus military commissions and trials stil) proceeded from time fo time in may cirenit, which included Virginia, and T Wished to be sure that the proclamation exernpted the Citoult Courte from iterference by the military, 1 theroforr co Ke (he Vresident (0 iste another prociatma- submitted to lum the dratt of one taect. f Up by mysel’ He expressed a great read. hess to do overyihing to facititate my hoiding my courts, bur he caid be thought nie proclamation Of April, xucicient for that parpose; I replied that tl thought oo a! Orst and probably would have renained of that opinion if ‘hese miliary coumssions had not bem going on: heexproseed bie readiness to do everything Proper, but nothing wae done ard 1 therefore, ws that tho President reonrrad to the opinion that his pro- amation, de iaring the inwurrection a an end, was snfficient @ Did the Presitent express any desire or anxiety to have Mr. Davie ted mediately? A. The impression 1 GOt from the Tres jeot was that he desired to Dave all the questions connected with (he trials disposed of subject Of discosiqn in the Cabinet ference of opinion abowt i, but the President wished te Sa eames meetanin are, scion sounder, aud on a consideration of by t. with myself, ‘both comourred that would not look well President to pais © snése to try Davie at the owa home and in b's own mt ee mena el ey tar saul 5 eh, office ; rhs I oo pene 4 a. rial of Davis; feast 1 Delleve’ I wes: to have im che Prosecution, but with conviction Pine triat should result ia a would mot constitute @ Q Did [asus pe have in the prepara tion of the ‘rreeidoet ve the bill to provide for the more efficient goverameat of the rebel Sates? A. Phere have been several communications uire whother aay yy me, or whoLnor L answer yes. Q Witt you exami ‘inted copy of the message now showa you, and A, and what parts of it were you? A. I do aot veileve tha: I Can do 89; some were put ti exprossions into writing by me, but nearly the whole, if not quite all of them, after being submitted to the Prosidont, were by tates the itto wish refer, guage. Itoriginated with, iy you who; I presume with the Prosident himself. on, very fae rl genre Syme wa | here. substance of Serer beet cone, one which you will Om pages cignt and commenc- ieg, “Invasion, tmeurrection and domestic violence were anticipated when the goverament waa framed’’ That paragraph is @ reduction of mine of a disq jubject more diffused, I repeat that I do not think that there is a paragraph trom Ce ng a printed in the exact wage written by me, I re. poat, that the difference between anything I wrote and anything that is found io this message is, that it is all pe ie frem much stronger expressions in the same dt into tame. Now, you i with. The paragral ing, ‘This 19a Dill passed by Congress in time of peace," aod contin on the first break on +o page eleven, I never saw until after the m was dolivered. The next about trial by jury, is one which ts partly mine; I have a weakness for that portion of the constitution; I never did, and I Suppose I wiil go to my grave without being able to, speak of @ violation of that rtion of the constitution without a certain amount of ling and indignation; what I would bave written in the shape of a message, if 1 were allowed to own way would have been more of that right; and what I did wi suppose was be so—and there is very littie of it hero; and what is here said about the writ of habeas corpus and warrant without arrest is mine; Ido not think, however, there is much use to talk about the writ of habeas corpus th { a mersage, Tanetantiall , and in what you would re- gard as the proper form of @ veto message’ in that form; the Presideat did net request me to put it {many particular form; be wanted me to put in form— ing ia, to put in writing—exprossions which he bad Fa em, And in which we perfectly agreed, which I did; ‘or imsialite, tm {hie frst paragraph ; and the paper which ie ' 3 that he was to change, aiter or modify it as he please... Q. This work was doue by you on the request of the President, wasit? A. Yer, I may say that it was dot at the request of the President, to the extent that he re." quested it. Q. You did not volunteer your services? A. No, sir. Q. Whon, as far as you repollect, did you first converse with the President upon the sabjects treated in tbe mess: A. In the fall of 1860. Q And when since theny A. The President and I, when these troubles iirst broke out, happened to coincide in our opinions exactly ; of his course, very fully, in the Senate, and he did of mune as a member of the executive administration; we bad some little con- Yorsation at that time, and possibly took some littie fancy for one another, in consequence of our agreement of opinion; | saw something of him again, just before he went to Tennessee, soon after the aew inaugu- ration of the administration, and we agreed thea, After the war broke ou, I saw bus little of him, After he became Presideit (Mid not seo him for three or four months, and then perhaps would ‘not have seen bim except ior the fact that a friend of bis induced me io believe that he would be glad to see me. [lid see him, and jn she conversation which we had spoke only of pablic\yuestions snd of the dan, whieh [ regarded the country as exposed to, [rom { (ime to this wo have mever spoken upon any other sub- ject that I know of. 1 am avable (o recall a single con- Yeraation between ira and me upon aay subject but what related to the public affairs of the conutry—occa- sionally, of course, we would speak of mea im con- nection with 11, Q. Have you at any time within the last two years had any conversation with the President apom she question wheWer the Thirty-ninth Congress was @ co: stitutional erganivation or mot? A. Never, I ered that a closed question with him, William 8. Hillyer’s Test Mr. Evonincw—Q, Did you hear a at any tine becween ihe President and Goneral (rant on the subject of amnesty, or pardoning rebels? A. 1 was ee at & two bouts’ interview about February 1, 566, when there was s geaeral discussion of all matiers pertaining to ihe condition of the South. . State (he conversation tuat occarred between your- self, the President and General Graut, as near as you cau. A. lt would be impossible for me to make any epecitic statements of that conversation; it was ® gen- eral conversation of which I cannot now reeall any spe- clue statement made by either the President, denera! Grant or myself; | bad just returned from a trip through part of the Soutw. Q. Through what part of theSouth’ A. Through Ala ama, Missiesippt and Tennessee. 7 . Q. What wae the occasion of your visit to the Presi- dont with General (rant! I willask you, were you ap- Plying for an appointment’ A. Not at that time; | was an applicant for an appointmen!, bot that subject was never disenseet between the resident, General Grant and myrelf. @ What was the occasion’ a. 1 will state to you the bistory of it, in the fail of 186) General Grant ma: vivis to the South, he wen: to the Siates of Virgil she Carolinas; as beence my vm rt est of Mra, Crant, came and miayed with ber here; LT waited for his revurn im orter to make @ triy South on business which | had at Mobile, and 1 came here on the morning tha! he returned from the South to take my family back to New York: we both arrived here before breakfast in the mormmg, and had @ conversation ar the breakfast (able in reference to his absence South Q. You mean you and General Grant’ A. Yee; I tol him | was abont to.ge South myself, to Mobile, and ihe when | returnet | would come and see him, and opare notes: | mate thie visit to the Sony and was gone abou! six werks, and on toy return | came over to Washington apd aw (Ceneral Grant, when | Maied to Bim my [moress/ons of the Sonth and the con what you thonsaid? A. Yes, tho said was in that Where ad that ’ of nore you mako apesch —= fey pe At what place? -A. At Masonio Hall, Oth Februa- You moopy of that spsoch? A. I have it in furnish of that speech to the com. r" an the remarks which nolude to tho President that you intended the apeech? Give us now a3 much of that t A I understand vabummedet wher? 4. No; not any other thon the gonsral admission € the Bousnorm tacmbers lo the goveral ( Q Did be speak to you at say time of | of @e:riows controversy between wiative departments of the goeernmeat You never bad a conversation with (he President im to the waa aud means by which be should gus imaolf as i’rosideps Ca United 2. Does thas ate “4 2 & the Presideat desired you should {n- bat you then said? February is morning. I could the speech, but will send one frem the examination tale r l i : ig zt ae > Fs i ii 4: i i i ! fs ge H i Hd i f t iE : e f i FF E Ht A. This speec! Vereation, and was an embodiment recollection of the points that were made in g i Hf 7 i E . mony With the views ofal: parties on, I might be abie to recall some points of the conver- sauuon; but now it isin my mind as a general conver- and I do not remember any specific remarks ng myself. By Mr. Mansnari—Q. If! understand y: e President on the suggest: Tam uot sure whether I suggested it or be did 80; bat after my ‘with him on the sub- ject; we first had a cupversation alone, and then, need) suggetiion or mine, we went to talk to the it, . Eup xe the views Oe ie i DGE—Q. berks Hageattio . s wy making the speech was the result of an invitation received to make one in New York, and ad acquainted General Grant, whe men- Voned it to.the President, . Was thst communication male by General Grant A, ta the conversation the President asked tne to bear public testimouy to what J had said and General Grant responded that make a speech in New York and °- Q@ And you atated to the | resented iu the Sov, the popula? athtfaicn misrepresented it ? point at inl point‘ atated mont dsiabiished by him did ela was required’ no action A. He clauned to admission w! nting their creden! r Ls sat it, ht Goueen oy Know shat he made thas argumen! cortainiy or by youresli had bew, inv it8d fo ~ ereaident. that you had rep: that th ident’ reprenented North, aad that s. ied to bear testimony on thet im the conversation, and I was asked to samme, Q, It was one of the things which the President ex- pected you to state to the meeting’ A. It was one of the things I had stated to Lim, and he acked me to.atate what I bed stated te-him. , inguirtes (0 individuats 2 ‘say individuals of )to'come in and take tn future? A. If tney came up to these qui ) did. mot contend that: thi MAD Was enti representation. Congress did n« Q. And you further stated that this longing to the President, and wae to be out the will of Congress ? . Q What did you say, thon, in regard to the will of gress’ A. That in my opinion the President repre- sented tie popular will and opinion of the North, and that Congress misrepresented the po; the voice of the people o fairly represented, the opinion amd action of accordanes with the views of the . Q. You stated in one of your answers that this mat- tor was within the conirol of the Paevident, regardless 4. I don't Know I stated that, oe callous? “A. If they took the ‘was o maatter be- | wae tig ee eee he North were of the will of Congress? Y. Were not the sentiments described by atered by yourse!! iu your speech at New in couformity with the wiskos of the President? A. I stated here what I wasted here. I shonic «ay in my speech what I sinted in the conversa aay onyiiing iu your sperch not authorized py ting be aid not figures of epeoch ; mubstance of ihe the President desired Your Conversation with him have used deaunciatory u Spaech war the substance of ) And the po.nts made? @. And wae it, as Le sentiments 6 i understand, 2 eniize accord the President. as expressed to A. Thore wae no digeent in the Mr, Nivntwar, | quggast the gentleman be ellewed to refer to Lie speech tw refresh bis memory. War it not entirety im accord with the views of General Grant? A. General Grant Was present, but f canmot now make eny tatement | y General Grant om (het cocssion except king the speech; f only remember the fact that there Ry entire harmony os eee and do exoeytions taken 10 any propositions beet recotleciion, but aw any positive aerent or dissent [do not now 1 h Mr, Wiiuame-Q@. Be good enough to car, if not ¥ silent, reserved man, who taike s i@ his reputation, and a just one, @ Did he iake apy lange share in the conversation to A. Yes; he joined m the conversa- he conversation war a c@mera! one, in which ked and answers given. oh read by the . Act oo tuted te it. nos positive about one Lrefer fo imo President after ite aithowg® | am A. T know there was a refer- na subsequent conrersetion, remarks were made P ence made to the y Unt he approved w® , A Teen apression that he did moved. Postmaster Goueral Handail’s Testimony. Th your apewer to the House foriniermation with reference to the pete ae eoanee ine three hunded or ene ‘Gil. * politioat reasons.” tostate more distinctly what 1 thousand two bum- you the impression novbing fw the way of disappro- ve no recollection mprewsion that he read the epee ale to the speech ceriainiy, bur 1 don © eaid that he approved it Q. How long after th | Grant, the Prosideut, amé yourveli, did Bik I te le except in goneral terms, but I read hie speeches at | bave the ront'or sei ied tion of society there. And at either his or my own su 4. Tretvarmed to New York and tm all, aad 9 portion done to restore eowne sort Of goverannent, ; (o@ bme and they were reported with considerabie geation—{ domot know whether at his or taipe, pat at @ Bat you ga ‘as to what shodid be done’ | wey. | do not recollect having heard him gay Teatimovy of Attorney tieneral Speed. either bis or mine —we went (0 see (he [resident on this snewer you stated the wiole num- Act at should be done | anything private on that subject spectaily. » néver Attoraey (cnornl Speed, who war sworn and éxamined I had been invited to makes speech im New deix hundred and fou By Mr, BinainceeQ. State the conversation you ba@ | heart bim allude to the Executive Department of the | 4nly 2, 1867, ter: ited thar mnmediately after thecapture | York ix reverence to my Sourbern trip, avd 1 spoke + } told General Grav: bat fo Dundred and eight; om that eubject. A. Thave had ropeated conversations | vovernmeot | never heart bim make any remark | Of Jefercon [uvin, the President and the Cabinet, bot | Ueners! Grant on that subject r the speech before it was de. | three wore for political reasons, and you stai# afterwarte With the President, bot | caunot specify what those cow- | lvoking to ue controversy between the Executive and | the Presiient mors particularly, wore anxious for a By the Cuaumwax--@. Did you go there with that did not dose, Tid wos tawe time-or oppor- | thee Tay Meg og Teasons and regiect of vertot\one Were any more (bam ( have already done. Congress. wpeedy tria!; st rhat time the Distriot Court wae being | jent’ A. Yes: we went, ond, | believe, lad two hove so that he did aot eee the Speech until AQ In cases there were charges againet (he & Ded you recomineod certelm generals of the Con- Ry Mr. Monsnar, <Qearamterstagd you to way that] Bolden fo Norfolk, Judge Underwood being the presid- | interview, of whied I Nol LOW remember avy sper if n as well ae ‘political’ reasons: polisiaid rate afiny to the Prosideat for pardom Who fell | yon Were very anxious at te clows of the war thas 4 ing judge; there was no Circan dudge down (here; the | statement made by either (eneral Grant, the lresident gwe—Q. Do you recollect, acy ebn- | reesous @ food many Hinge; Femoral: hae exemption®? A. Yes, sir, [ recommended Gep- | civil governments should be establiebed in some form, Davia wae placed umden | qr myself, there was a general conversation, the ere h the President, ther the ject ot-the | cause have been very (requent 11 almost every oom). al- Tr of which @ President eaid to me that he t, FARInIE, @ year wad» balf ago; an tbat sud thas you eo advised the Presidemt? A, I so stated Cannot recelle! ibe name of anybody advised ihe, 1 | frequently iu hie prevence, bub | { Comgrese from the South, roy hl ’ ane to bring him 19 trial os ata i a. turned men ont decause they Au no! roe abould bear pubiie testimony to what T bad xiated (har turned men ont, cau ABE 41 82, Soe 1 iC © man voted ink | recommended several others. form of proceeding thought it eould be done; the enal frat | day, and General Greut said that Thad een inviied to democratic ticket and was a TOR recollect recommending J, G. french, « Q. Were you prevent when this North Carolina pro- feripoped inti developments should be made ai | make a aperco in New York and Could do it in tha way Of Mr. Adapoin, be wes torment wradoaiwor West Point? 4. Yea, sir, clamation woe read im Cabinet? A, [would not be cers | the trial of ihe conspirators; | a! counsel to aid | T remember divinetly the President sid to me shar be i political Pars oppo @ What éid be take im the rebellion’ A, He , twin, but am of opiniom that the first time T heard tread | im the prosees'ion, and we all came to the conginsion sperch just wast | veel there | and which 4 obras was a. oral } Fas lo presence of the President and the Secretary of | thet uoless the Judge @f sue Supreme Court comld pre- | shat day, | Won Sr to wary ent, was Leeann SPN ronnee a e fodits of West Point? A He was, aed | War only. wide, he sh. ; Unat the Gage was one over By Mr. Pronvce—@. Tell up the conversation between repreventation; 1 | which would canse the removal of * i nem ee phe yh Q Did you astont to that plan* A. Edid not dieseat | which he should preside; | iad grout dtsincl eral Grant aud yourse! ‘he cor versat {6w, to ma eTogl vary eo ma [Mego rom repellec! reecsameuding ihe pardon of (eo, | torn Wt: Wk was & crvil matter, and slshough twas }-bare Darin tried before 1 mi tated, the id hevoxpress Bis views ax to thelr | might Lo iad be tare H. Y as DxioUs 1 HAVe something done, I did not intend to tat al dent Grant > A. bdo not remember any spec.de | ing hime om the: Seraeaey Se wend Ne Wirnee ma ae Raped prgyanngrrenting ferrice ! tate a plan 1 Go net th expromed eny mien i berauae the COnDtry wae Bot no quiet as bi a in wnt cach r. a it, y Ti et ee. eon Lg ne be $B case rorerred te! was : ‘BO Very conspouous part sbout tt at | Woked 0 ita mmply ited, ard because maflitary rule proves A 1 ink [con give ‘OOFereAL On ‘ereation, . e ry San bo 8 pcos Cpaaenie of West Pom? at Think "so. tet ys eneral conversation ia whieh there was an en: that we were speaking, era 0 “eprones but nora of rite. | os meen the Mresidont, Ganersi Grant and mys: 1 that wa See tigen? h. Wod 4. Was there any @pecia) cirenmetance im hit ease | the trial did not eo: FA question Bot ROW Tecdliect Any starement made br eiher at any time apeae to you Toesbor woud which you considered! AL Vea, wir, Edidthat at ive avout teving Devin in Kemueky: that t opooset, | party t } i Representatives in fa vanes twtan¢ of Genersl Hudict, end a a Wal favor to becmure ih woe 2 bem cave Of coum Tutt r Q° Yousmost rete ber w r Tena tlve febet seat latens ve go Bir. avd F cw ie Affected ag ioheriiacce Lar ppowe c the question Wax mooted, cory cate Ta fe cee ‘ t _ ghey Stich: Wie He'd etarRONY CabAiment Erigh soo.0n tho of eet MAR RIBD T hon na oe Oulu ah gon A. 1 oottty by. reoregig. ¢ Frame A weeparatc own ge | r Bra 12 ef eres Ryn! cot Abe war, © eR, bey Bul aod wa oy wage | 1 appemed tee b- wie aloe. the \ Sas ih Tue None of Reproentatires tat! wo wea Wha Cod J pelt Aen eu eur. | aioe out Bover Vents Sue my Fens, PACU AE WL Got Coc ashen heqaes himany cure eccope waere ue ued vers an Uy pCenea @ Mia you aly verte & 1 waick samy ettuutd Ge adltadird, 2 rtmeons.” oangir beat ee ee ‘